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  1. #4826
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    Dept is an illusion anyway... who's ever going to collect that money?
    Almost all countries spend more then they earn, big deal.

    If the dollar fails were all going down - and we'll just start from scratch again

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    This isn't over....just a pause. Thank goodness we have the tea party. Otherwise who else is gonna fight for smaller government, less taxes and to stop the piling of debt on the backs of our children and grandchildren.
    Liberals probably feel the same way. Tea party makes it easier for them. Plus, they provide great material for people like Jon Stewart.

    I would love to take over the personal finances of Democrats and keep spending more of THEIR OWN MONEY then they take in. See how they like watching their own debt pile up with no end in sight. And when they cry, begging me to stop spending their money....I'll just laugh at them and say.... "now you know what the taxpayer has felt like under your leadership". Then to really hit it home, I'll tell them I'm sending the bills to their children and making them pay for them.
    The talk of a true politician....lol
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-21-2013 at 15:41.

  3. #4828
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    nah, I would force each person in congress, the president, etc etc... to move into a playhouse with a easy bake oven. They wouldn't be allowed to ride in taxi's, limos or anything, they would get a pedal car to move around in that way they won't pollute.

  4. #4829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Liberals probably feel the same way. Tea party makes it easier for them. Plus, they provide great material for people like Jon Stewart.



    The talk of a true politician....lol
    Well then you defend your support for a party that just wants to tax tax tax and spend spend spend? Hmmm? Easy to just trash the opposition to it. Defend how going further and further in debt is a good thing? Defend how supporting a party that thinks more and more of your hard earned money actually belongs to them and not you who actually earned it?

    People complain about airlines nickle and dime-ing us to death with fees..... yet the government nickles, dimes, quarters and dollars us to death and apparently you are okay with that. Either you work for the government, are dependent on government freebies or pay little in taxes to have that mindset.

    They have that mindset in Europe and look where it's got them. Unemployment among the young in Europe is way higher then the USA. Spain jobless rate for those aged 15 to 24 is 56 percent. France? 25.5 percent. And the list goes on. The USA is about 14.5 percent. And those are the economic systems Obama and the liberals want the USA to be more like? Ha!
    Last edited by GreatSpaceKoaster; 10-21-2013 at 18:34.

  5. #4830
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Well then you defend your support for a party that just wants to tax tax tax and spend spend spend? Hmmm? Easy to just trash the opposition to it. Defend how going further and further in debt is a good thing? Defend how supporting a party that thinks more and more of your hard earned money actually belongs to them and not you who actually earned it?
    We have been in debt for years. Please don't act like one party is responsible for it. The debt has actually gone down but not nearly as much as needed. The actions of congress closing the government didn't help at all though. All it did was cost us billions of dollars. You seem to have one line of thought, and thats blame everything on the libs.





    People complain about airlines nickle and dime-ing us to death with fees..... yet the government nickles, dimes, quarters and dollars us to death and apparently you are okay with that. Either you work for the government, are dependent on government freebies or pay little in taxes to have that mindset.
    Cant argue with that, but the government aren't the only ones guilty of it. Just look around you. But we all know gov is all bad and has never done anything worthwhile, right?



    They have that mindset in Europe and look where it's got them. Unemployment among the young in Europe is way higher then the USA. Spain jobless rate for those aged 15 to 24 is 56 percent. France? 25.5 percent. And the list goes on. The USA is about 14.5 percent. And those are the economic systems Obama and the liberals want the USA to be more like? Ha!
    Is that what the extremist say? Obama wants the US to be like Europe? isn't that what some of those looneys in the tea party say?

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  7. #4831
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    We have been in debt for years. Please don't act like one party is responsible for it. The debt has actually gone down but not nearly as much as needed. The actions of congress closing the government didn't help at all though. All it did was cost us billions of dollars. You seem to have one line of thought, and thats blame everything on the libs.

    Yes...to a point when some republicans haven't been fiscally conservative. We call them RINOs (Republican In Name Only). Just because a man is in a dress, doesn't make him a woman. And just because a guy ran as a Republican, doesn't mean he's all that conservative. Democrats have the equivalent term DINO (Democrat In Name Only). Just cuz the guy ran as a democrat, doesn't mean he's all that liberal.

    In politics there are two main issues..... Fiscal and Social. Fiscal has to do with spending issues, social has to do with social issues like abortion, gay marriage, etc etc. There are SOME republicans that are fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. And there are SOME democrats that are fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. But there are democrats that have been against things like abortion (anti-social) and Republicans that have been big spenders (anti-fiscal).

    Fiscally conservative democrats have the nickname "Blue Dog Democrats". Fiscally liberal Republicans have no special name like that. They are simply given the RINO title by conservatives.


    As for the DEBT going down? You are WRONG. I think you are confusing that with the DEFICIT. A deficit is how much money the government is in the hole at the end of a fiscal year.... the DEBT is the grand total of money the government owes from past deficits through borrowing the money to cover the shortfalls.

    The DEFICIT has gone down in the last year.....but we are still in the hole at the end of the year. To COVER THAT HOLE we have still BORROWED money and in the process ADDED to the TOTAL NATIONAL DEBT. A debt that is $17+ trillion and counting. A debt that has increased at over TWICE the rate than it did under Bush. Obama increased the debt in 3 1/2 years what took Bush a full 8 years to increase the debt the same amount.

    That ain't Tea Party spin.... that's based on numbers the US government releases publicly every year by law.

    The only reason the deficit went down was because of the sequester law that FORCED indiscriminate spending cuts across the board. Obama agreed to the law originally thinking it would never need to be enacted cuz he was sure a budget deal would be made. The budget deal never happened and Obama and the Democrats are kicking themselves cuz it's forced a cut in spending to a bunch of stuff they love to spend money on (social programs). The Republicans aren't happy either cuz it cuts some defense spending too. BUT.... the Republicans are FAR LESS upset about the cuts than the Democrats because AT LEAST it FINALLY cuts some spending for a change....which is what Republicans want.

    As for costing us BILLIONS in the shut down? Mainly to those that are dependent on TAXPAYER money. Also... the government workers should have NEVER gotten back pay for the shutdown. In the private sector when a factory closes for two weeks, those employees don't get back pay. They usually file for unemployment during the shutdown since they are eligible. No one should get paid for work they didn't do. Unemployment checks are the exception because they were funded in advance for that very purpose....when you aren't working.

    And I don't blame EVERYTHING on the DEMS, I blame them for the vast MAJORITY of the problems.

    Have you heard of all the cities in the USA like Detroit, Michigan and Stockton, California that have filed for bankruptcy OR are on the VERGE of bankruptcy? Who controls them? DEMOCRATS! Name all the cities that are controlled by REPUBLICANS that are filing for bankruptcy or on the verge of bankruptcy? Good luck with that cuz you are gonna be searching a long time to find a case.

    Same with the running of states. The two states that are in the biggest debt and the most fiscally bad off? California and Illinois. And who has been running those states for all these years? That's right..... DEMOCRATS.

    So 9 out of 10 instances (more like 99 out of 100) where a city or state government is deep, deep in debt.... it's Democrats that controlled it and ran it into the ground....NOT a Republican controlled city or state government.

    So yes....DEMOCRATS are the problem cuz they are the ones controlling cities and states that are in the worse shape fiscally. This has been a consistent case for decades.



    Cant argue with that, but the government aren't the only ones guilty of it. Just look around you. But we all know gov is all bad and has never done anything worthwhile, right?

    But the BIG difference is.... I can choose to not go with an airline that nickles and dimes me to death. I have no choice but to pay my taxes if I don't want to be put in jail, my assets frozen and/or sold to pay my tax bill. Never heard of anybody going to jail for not choosing to fly an airline that puts a fee on everything.

    The only choice we have in taxes is on a state or local level. I can choose to move to a state that has less taxes then others. But when it comes to federal tax, I'm stuck being forced to pay that rate no matter which state I live in.

    Government isn't ALL bad and has done SOME things worthwhile. The problem is that is few and far between. Government is the least efficient and least cost effective way to get things done. We've poured billions and billions of taxpayer dollars into the war on cancer since the National Cancer Act of 1971 signed by President Nixon and funding government laboratories. And where did the vast majority of cancer breakthroughs come from? Private companies.... NOT the government run laboratories. And at far less cost per breakthrough then government has ever come close to.

    There is a reason why the joke exists "How many government workers does it take to screw in a light bulb?". It's the great inefficiency and high costs of government that gave birth to the idea behind that joke. If government was forced to compete in the private sector for it's survival, it would go out of business in under a year.

    Always remember..... the private sector can survive without the government, the government can't survive without the private sector.

    Something Obama very conveniently overlooked when he said the famous "You didn't build that" statement during the 2012 campaign that got him in hot water with the private sector. He claimed it was cuz government provided the infrastructure that allows the private sector to flourish...... completely ignoring the fact that the reason the government was able to build those roads and bridges is because of money that was made FIRST in the private sector and then taxed away LATER to fund it.



    Is that what the extremist say? Obama wants the US to be like Europe? isn't that what some of those looneys in the tea party say?

    It's not what extremists or the tea party say....it's what liberals and socialists in America say all the time THEMSELVES. Just read their books and literature. Go listen to their speeches at colleges. Listen to the Democrat politicians. They are always referencing how Europe has free this and free that and takes care of this and takes care of that.... so why can't a rich country like the USA take lessons from European countries?

    Well looking at the much higher unemployment rates in Europe than the USA, their massive debts and needing BAILOUTS from less worse off countries in the EU..... we are seeing FIRST HAND what being like Europe gets you in the end. They are the canary in the coal mine of what will happen to the USA if we continue towards out of control spending that Europe has done for decades.

    Also... if you don't think Obama is a socialist..... then go look up the definitions and policies of socialism and I'll show you how they clearly apply to Obama's policies and agendas.

    There is a saying.... if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck..... it's usually a duck. And everything clearly shows in his actions and words that he is a socialist.

    Oh...and ONE MORE THING...... you did EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT. You wanted to blame republicans too without answering my questions.....

    The questions were....

    Well then you defend your support for a party that just wants to tax tax tax and spend spend spend? Hmmm? Easy to just trash the opposition to it. Defend how going further and further in debt is a good thing? Defend how supporting a party that thinks more and more of your hard earned money actually belongs to them and not you who actually earned it?

    Got any answers for those questions in my quote?

  8. #4832
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Oh...and ONE MORE THING...... you did EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT. You wanted to blame republicans too without answering my questions.....

    The questions were....



    Got any answers for those questions in my quote?
    Thats what politicians do. Not answer questions

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Thats what politicians do. Not answer questions
    The great irony there is, he said this to me....

    The talk of a true politician....lol
    I don't duck questions, liberals are notorious for it. They are also notorious for not admitting they were wrong on a policy and usually try to change the subject onto their next cause or argument.

    I listen to a conservative talk show host daily that's not Rush Limbaugh (I rarely listen to Rush) but is one of the chosen few talk show hosts that's been allowed to fill in on Rush when he's on vacation. His name is Mark Belling out of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He has a website and you can listen to his daily podcasts of his radio broadcasts there.

    He first pointed out the subject changing liberals do that I had not noticed before. Once he mentioned it, I DID start noticing they won't stick to a subject for long once the questions start getting tough and detailed.

    The other brilliant observation he made is about when liberals call into his talkshow, they almost always stall for time when asked a question by the host when they don't have an answer by REPEATING the question back to him. For instance.....

    Mark: "Why do you think Obama isn't a socialist?"

    Liberal caller: "Why do I think Obama isn't a socialist?"

    Mark: "Yes that's what I just asked you. Why do you keep repeating my questions?"

    Liberal caller: "Why do I keep repeating your questions?"

    Mark: "You just repeated my question again!".

    If you listen to the liberal callers, 80%-90% repeat his questions back to him while about 90% of his conservative callers NEVER repeat his questions back to him... they simply answer him. It's amazing the contrast between the two types of callers.

    The other observation he makes is when you try to have a rational conversation with them, most of them (not all) start interrupting him, don't answer most of his questions and start screaming and ranting about a subject that wasn't even the original topic of the call.

    There was a small town's version of the occupy wall street demonstration a couple years ago near where I live. They had it every Saturday for a few months. I estimate there was about 30-40 people. They were obvious liberals. So I went up to one of the guys holding a sign and I asked him some questions about why he was there and what they expect to accomplish. He answered my questions and then I started to challenge his logic with some simple questions and then his mood quickly started to change. He now starts realizing I'm not on his team and not for his cause.

    Now I was very polite, calm and pleasant to the guy. Just a calm, honest debate so it wasn't like I was yelling at him or trying to provoke him. When he kinda figured out I was conservative, he stops trying to answer my questions and says to me "Maybe you need to leave". I told him we are on a public street corner and I'm asking you some pretty simple and basic questions. That I have been very polite. And he said to me "I don't think this is the place for you. I think you need to leave."

    Now to be fair... not all of them were like that, but many of them were and didn't appreciate my challenging their cause with direct questions on it. I even had a CNN news reporter record one of our exchanges, but I doubt it ever made it on the air. I did make it in the newspaper and was quoted.

    Here's a picture of my questioning them. I'm the guy in the denim shorts and white shirt with my back to the camera. The guy in the blue shirt I'm talking to isn't the one that told me to leave. This guy is actually the one that was quoted along with me in the newspaper. He wasn't a wacko like the one that told me to leave. He actually was normal and even did CONCEDE some of my points I made...although he leaned into me and said it very quietly so the others wouldn't think he was selling out. LOL!




    EDIT:Found the wacko with the yellow sign that I talked first with and told me maybe I should leave once he got some tough questions from me!!! LOL!




    BTW.... here are a couple OLDER short exchanges Mark Belling has with liberal callers. One is when he filled in for Rush Limbaugh. The other is when he's talking to a black female on his own show back during the 2008 campaign. Classics! So funny!




    Last edited by GreatSpaceKoaster; 10-22-2013 at 13:39.

  10. #4834
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    The great irony there is, he said this to me....
    True politician=blame the other party.



    I don't duck questions, liberals are notorious for it. They are also notorious for not admitting they were wrong on a policy and usually try to change the subject onto their next cause or argument.
    I don't really follow what liberals do all the time, but it sure wasn't them ducking those WMD questions....lol

    I listen to a conservative talk show host daily that's not Rush Limbaugh (I rarely listen to Rush) but is one of the chosen few talk show hosts that's been allowed to fill in on Rush when he's on vacation. His name is Mark Belling out of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He has a website and you can listen to his daily podcasts of his radio broadcasts there.
    never doubted that for a second. The stuff you say sounds just like the garbage they spill. You rarely listen to Rush but you listen to the guy who fills in for him...lol Yea, that make sense. And lets not forget about Donald Mr. Birther Trump either....lol
    Yea, thats strong leadership right there.

    The other brilliant observation he made is about when liberals call into his talkshow, they almost always stall for time when asked a question by the host when they don't have an answer by REPEATING the question back to him. For instance.....

    Mark: "Why do you think Obama isn't a socialist?"

    Liberal caller: "Why do I think Obama isn't a socialist?"

    Mark: "Yes that's what I just asked you. Why do you keep repeating my questions?"

    Liberal caller: "Why do I keep repeating your questions?"

    Mark: "You just repeated my question again!".
    That ridiculous. Why would anyone entertain such a stupid question anyway? Anyone who thinks the President is a socialist is nutty as a fruitcake anyway. And you call that brilliant observation?...lol




    There is a saying.... if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck..... it's usually a duck. And everything clearly shows in his actions and words that he is a socialist.
    That's some wacko $#@!. let me guess, he is a muslim who wasn't born in the country either, right...lol Isn't that what the some of those looneys in the tea party says?

    Obama= socialist is just the same old tried right wing Republican rant that was used and pulled up the flagpole over the last election and failed. Nothing but another fallacy. If he is such a socialist what does that say about the party he has defeated twice in elections? You mean the American people would rather have a socialist than another Repub in the office?....lol
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-22-2013 at 15:37.

  11. #4835
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    It's all garbage, coming from any party out there.

    Sub, it's not like America wanted Obama back. It's like 51.2% wanted him and 47.2% didn't. Just over half wanted him back. Don't lump that as the American people... I wonder how many people, both sides, even know what "socialist" means.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    True politician=blame the other party.





    I don't really follow what liberals do all the time, but it sure wasn't them ducking those WMD questions....lol



    never doubted that for a second. The stuff you say sounds just like the garbage they spill. You rarely listen to Rush but you listen to the guy who fills in for him...lol Yea, that make sense. And lets not forget about Donald Mr. Birther Trump either....lol
    Yea, thats strong leadership right there.



    That ridiculous. Why would anyone entertain such a stupid question anyway? Anyone who thinks the President is a socialist is nutty as a fruitcake anyway. And you call that brilliant observation?...lol





    That's some wacko $#@!. let me guess, he is a muslim who wasn't born in the country either, right...lol Isn't that what the some of those looneys in the tea party says?

    Obama= socialist is just the same old tried right wing Republican rant that was used and pulled up the flagpole over the last election and failed. Nothing but another fallacy. If he is such a socialist what does that say about the party he has defeated twice in elections? You mean the American people would rather have a socialist than another Repub in the office?....lol
    I notice you do a whole lot of name calling and a whole lot of ducking of the things I presented. I ask you questions and you steer clear of those too. Clearly you are afraid to refute and argue my points.

    I can't debate someone who actually refuses to debate.....or with someone who seems clearly incapable of it.

    When they can't argue their case, they simply call you names.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    It's all garbage, coming from any party out there.

    Sub, it's not like America wanted Obama back. It's like 51.2% wanted him and 47.2% didn't. Just over half wanted him back. Don't lump that as the American people... I wonder how many people, both sides, even know what "socialist" means.
    If you look at the popular vote then it was close, but still a decent margin. The electoral wasn't even close. It really doesn't matter anyway. A win is a win. As for socialism, I know what it means. That's why I laugh at those who call Obama a socialist. Not even close to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    I notice you do a whole lot of name calling and a whole lot of ducking of the things I presented. I ask you questions and you steer clear of those too. Clearly you are afraid to refute and argue my points.

    I can't debate someone who actually refuses to debate.....or with someone who seems clearly incapable of it.

    When they can't argue their case, they simply call you names.
    There is nothing to debate. You are just bickering. You blame liberals for the majority of problems. You made that clear. You think Obama is a socialist. Can't debate anyone who has that type of thought . Obama supports welfare so I guess that makes him a socialist. I guess that means Republicans ae communist because they don't support same sex marriage. It's the same old tired argument. All you're doing is trying to legitimize those same old GOP/tea party buzzwords used in the past. It doesn't work. That stuff only works on those people with extremist views.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-22-2013 at 16:37.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    If you look at the popular vote then it was close, but still a decent margin. The electoral wasn't even close. It really doesn't matter anyway. A win is a win. As for socialism, I know what it means. That's why I laugh at those who call Obama a socialist. Not even close to it.


    There is nothing to debate. You are just bickering. You blame liberals for the majority of problems. You made that clear. You think Obama is a socialist. Can't debate anyone who has that type of thought . Obama supports welfare so I guess that makes him a socialist. I guess that means Republicans ae communist because they don't support same sex marriage. It's the same old tired argument. All you're doing is trying to legitimize those same old GOP/tea party buzzwords used in the past. It doesn't work. That stuff only works on those people with extremist views.
    I think he fits the bill for being called socialist. I don't see how you think he's not even close. The democratic party is either there, or on the way and so close as it is. The voted for government run healthcare, as a law... that on it's own fits socialism. How much of the government invested in corporations now? Yeah, that too..




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I think he fits the bill for being called socialist. I don't see how you think he's not even close. The democratic party is either there, or on the way and so close as it is. The voted for government run healthcare, as a law... that on it's own fits socialism. How much of the government invested in corporations now? Yeah, that too..
    Wrong. That doesn't make him a socialist. It's anything but that. The healthcare law isn't socialism. By your definition medicare and social security is socialism too. Thats falsely equating western european styled socialism to what this law is. Its fair to question whether gov should have certain expanded powers, but to call it socialism is just plain false.
    He was against same sex marriage and abortion too. Does that make him a communist? No it doesn't.

    I don't think you know what true socialism is. By calling OBama a socialist you cheapen the real experiences of those who actually lived(and still do) with brutal forms of real socialism. If he is a socialist, he is the worst one anyone has ever seen....lol Like I said before, it's just a scare tactic used by the GOP and tea party. No different when they were trying to convince people that he isn't a US citizen or a muslim. Nothing more than scare tactics.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-22-2013 at 22:25.

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    State-run does not equal socialism.

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    Medicare isn't the $#@!ing same as obamacare. Jesus. Do people get "taxed" if they don't have Medicare? Did only one party form Medicare?

    You think what you want.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Medicare isn't the $#@!ing same as obamacare. Jesus. Do people get "taxed" if they don't have Medicare? Did only one party form Medicare?

    You think what you want.
    So a tax means it's socialism?...lol

    It doesn't matter. Who runs medicare? The federal government. The federal government runs the new healthcare system. According to you Obama is a socialist because of the healthcare law. How is that any different than medicare and social security? It's not. I find it funny that the same people who call Obama a socialist don't want anyone to touch their medicare and social security....lol Its because it's mostly politics. That's all.

    It's really ridiculous if you think about it. The people who are trying to stop government healthcare actually work for the government. They want less government for everthing until it comes to their government paychecks....lol
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-23-2013 at 01:13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    So a tax means it's socialism?...lol

    It doesn't matter. Who runs medicare? The federal government. The federal government runs the new healthcare system. According to you Obama is a socialist because of the healthcare law. How is that any different than medicare and social security? It's not. I find it funny that the same people who call Obama a socialist don't want anyone to touch their medicare and social security....lol Its because it's mostly politics. That's all.

    It's really ridiculous if you think about it. The people who are trying to stop government healthcare actually work for the government. They want less government for everthing until it comes to their government paychecks....lol
    /facepalm

    Ok... let's go a little slow here. Obamacare.. government run healthcare system that penalizes someone if they don't have healthcare. Medicare.. optional, no penalties. Then break out the rest of Obamacare, and you'll actually learn something.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    /facepalm

    Ok... let's go a little slow here. Obamacare.. government run healthcare system that penalizes someone if they don't have healthcare. Medicare.. optional, no penalties. Then break out the rest of Obamacare, and you'll actually learn something.
    lol...so it's socialism because of a penalty? That's your definition of socialism? Come on dude, that's silly. That isn't socialism, Fear. You are penalized for lots of stuff at the state and federal level. That doesn't make it socialism.

    The conservative debate over the mandate is based on nothing but semantics. They assume that when the government mandates something they are overreaching it's power and inching the country closer to socialism.The policy is addressing a struggle.That's whether we should allow the law that demands that a individual purchase insurance, or if the unorthodox healthcare market demands that we pay for uninsured individuals. Either way you still are paying for those other people. I do believe socialism means that the government would own the means of production. In this case it doesn't ,so it's not socialism.

    It's pretty clear that you have a misunderstanding of what socialism is. All you did was regurgitate the same old talking points that conservative media has said. First it was unconstitutional and then it's socialism. Same old tired argument with no real proof.

    The supreme court has already ruled that the mandate is constitutional , so any arguing about it's fairness or calling it socialism falls flat on it's face.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-23-2013 at 02:24.

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    You tend to cherry pic at single lines, and then play on that. I'll leave it at that. I never said it was socialism because of the penalty. ffs... that was merely giving you a hint a difference between Obamacare and Medicare..




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    You tend to cherry pic at single lines, and then play on that. I'll leave it at that. I never said it was socialism because of the penalty. ffs... that was merely giving you a hint a difference between Obamacare and Medicare..
    Then what you saying? Are you are saying it's socialism because it's by the gov? How does gov run healthcare fit socialism and other gov programs don't? You say you think it fits the bill so explain why. Do the supreme court members who made this a law fit the bill of being called socialist too?

    I think you're only saying it because that's what you heard from the right leaning media and tea party people. Those are the only ones who say stuff like that. If it wasn't healthcare it would be something else. It's just politics, dude. They have already lost that fight to shut down this law. They've tried and failed too many times.

    If obama is a socialist, then what do you call the one's who shut down the gov costing billions and unnecessary suffering? Patriotic?

    Originally Posted by F34R
    I think he fits the bill for being called socialist. I don't see how you think he's not even close. The democratic party is either there, or on the way and so close as it is. The voted for government run healthcare, as a law... that on it's own fits socialism.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-23-2013 at 03:41.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valefor View Post
    State-run does not equal socialism.
    Socialism is a very broad term. There are so many different types of Socialism. When you give up your freedoms to the state, that is a form of socialism. That is... the state deciding for the citizen instead of the citizen deciding for themselves. This manifests itself in rules, laws and regulations.

    Obama believes in a a progressive tax code, which is a redistribution of wealth. Redistribution of wealth is a hallmark of Socialism.

    Socialism is against profit. And low and behold we have Obama leading the demonizing of corporate profits every chance he gets.

    Socialism is against private property ownership. And what has the Obama done? Enacted policies of EXPANDING federal lands. That means less and less land available for private ownership.

    And the list goes on.


    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    You tend to cherry pic at single lines, and then play on that. I'll leave it at that. I never said it was socialism because of the penalty. ffs... that was merely giving you a hint a difference between Obamacare and Medicare..
    Cherry pick? That's the understatement of the year. You are wasting your time.

    The Huffington Post is a majorly liberal website. But I'll give the members over there credit.... at least some of those liberals actually try to answer questions conservatives throw at them. Him? It's all about duck, dodge, bob and weave.

    My opinion can change if he actually starts answering stuff, Otherwise... I stand by that statement.
    Last edited by GreatSpaceKoaster; 10-23-2013 at 10:16.

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    One time I got a ticket because I had let my car insurance run out.


    Shut up and play games

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    Quote Originally Posted by Equinoqs View Post
    One time I got a ticket because I had let my car insurance run out.
    I'm not positive but I think the state of New Hampshire is the only state left that doesn't require car insurance by law.


    And speaking of laws.... Obama wouldn't listen to Republicans about delaying the individual Obama care mandate in the shutdown negotiations. Now here it is only days after the government shutdown ended and NOW the white house is hinting they may delay it thanks to their website fiasco.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Then what you saying? Are you are saying it's socialism because it's by the gov? How does gov run healthcare fit socialism and other gov programs don't? You say you think it fits the bill so explain why. Do the supreme court members who made this a law fit the bill of being called socialist too?

    I think you're only saying it because that's what you heard from the right leaning media and tea party people. Those are the only ones who say stuff like that. If it wasn't healthcare it would be something else. It's just politics, dude. They have already lost that fight to shut down this law. They've tried and failed too many times.

    If obama is a socialist, then what do you call the one's who shut down the gov costing billions and unnecessary suffering? Patriotic?
    Who shut down the government? Can't be those that wouldn't pass any bills in the Senate to fund the government... I'd call them democrats.




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