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  1. #4901
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    See, here's where the partisan groupies jump in here FEAR and say "Well the Republicans ruined Obamacare and don't want to bother fixing it!", not saying this isn't true to one degree or another but they had a super majority in congress and Obama in office to push this.

    Thing is, it is absolutely going to suck because of both parties screwing with each other. We, the taxpayer, will absolutely suffer and each side gets to point the finger at the other as to whose fault it is. And people from both camps will eat it up and go to the next election and check all the boxes with "R" or "D" respectively.

    I feel it is more productive to restructure or destroy existing government agencies and programs than it is to create new, efficient, ones.


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    There are only 27 policies for my state... the ones that are the within the same price we pay now don't pay as much as our current plan (that's being canceled). The ones that have the coverage and cover as much costs, are $400+ over what we pay now.

    Well, the only ones we can say with respect to Obamacare is the Democratic party and the President.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    There are only 27 policies for my state... the ones that are the within the same price we pay now don't pay as much as our current plan (that's being canceled). The ones that have the coverage and cover as much costs, are $400+ over what we pay now.

    Well, the only ones we can say with respect to Obamacare is the Democratic party and the President.
    Well that's your state dude and health care isn't just a democratic thing. Your provider shares some of that blame too.

    . It's only the beginning for this program . This is nation wide and It's gonna have some issues just like Medicare d, SS, and other state level programs. Those are successful now but they didn't all start out that way. More progress could be made If people in Washington work together and put as much effort in helping make it better rather than to kill it. Even Romney was for the Mass plan being used on a national level and his party supported a mandate then. Now they wanna kill it. It's all political. It's funny how those same politicians say they want less Gov but you better not touch their Medicare or their gov retirement plans.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Well that's your state dude and health care isn't just a democratic thing. Your provider shares some of that blame too.

    . It's only the beginning for this program . This is nation wide and It's gonna have some issues just like Medicare d, SS, and other state level programs. Those are successful now but they didn't all start out that way. More progress could be made If people in Washington work together and put as much effort in helping make it better rather than to kill it. Even Romney was for the Mass plan being used on a national level and his party supported a mandate then. Now they wanna kill it. It's all political. It's funny how those same politicians say they want less Gov but you better not touch their Medicare or their gov retirement plans.


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    What planet do you live on. With the way those current programs are set up, they are not sustainable. If that is what your example of successful is, I'd hate to see your definition of what would be a failure.

    Also Mitt was open to other states adopting plans like the one in MA, voluntarily and on their own. Not to be forced to adopt a federal/nationwide program.

  5. #4905
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    What planet do you live on. With the way those current programs are set up, they are not sustainable. If that is what your example of successful is, I'd hate to see your definition of what would be a failure.

    Also Mitt was open to other states adopting plans like the one in MA, voluntarily and on their own. Not to be forced to adopt a federal/nationwide program.
    It's better than what we had before. Let's give it a chance and see what happens before we kill it before it starts. This is a huge piece of legislation. It's gonna take time.


    Mitt would say anything to get elected . We found that out. First he was for the aca then he was against it.He forced plenty on the state of Mass. Go ask the people of that state about him. One of the reasons he ran for president is because he didn't have a chance in hell in Mass again. Only reason he was gov was because he managed to convince people he was a moderate, but then flipped that when he ran for pres. You can't trust someone like that. Even his party has kicked him to the curb .




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    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-31-2013 at 23:53.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    It's better than what we had before. Let's give it a chance and see what happens before we kill it before it starts. This is a huge piece of legislation. It's gonna take time.


    Mitt would say anything to get elected . We found that out. First he was for the aca then he was against it.He forced plenty on the state of Mass. Go ask the people of that state about him. One of the reasons he ran for president is because he didn't have a chance in hell in Mass again. Only reason he was gov was because he managed to convince people he was a moderate, but then flipped that when he ran for pres. You can't trust someone like that. Even his party has kicked him to the curb .




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    I've come to realize you can't trust a politician.




  7. #4907
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I've come to realize you can't trust a politician.
    Ain't that the truth the world over..

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I've come to realize you can't trust a politician.
    Or a lawyer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    It's better than what we had before. Let's give it a chance and see what happens before we kill it before it starts. This is a huge piece of legislation. It's gonna take time.


    Mitt would say anything to get elected . We found that out. First he was for the aca then he was against it.He forced plenty on the state of Mass. Go ask the people of that state about him. One of the reasons he ran for president is because he didn't have a chance in hell in Mass again. Only reason he was gov was because he managed to convince people he was a moderate, but then flipped that when he ran for pres. You can't trust someone like that. Even his party has kicked him to the curb .

    IRONRANGER6 Tapatalk
    You know what really bothers me, it's becoming very apparent that both parties have lied about what's in this thing. Obama says one thing when he's lobbying for it, and another thing a few years later, clearly he didn't even know what he pushing.

    Here's what we are seeing in Texas, group health premiums are increasing by around 40% across the board in response to legislation. Many small businesses that have been able to provide group health for their employees may no longer be able to afford it. Of course, there is a tax credit that will play into this, but subsidizing businesses who carry health insurance because we "fixed the system" and made it much more expensive doesn't seem like the answer.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    It's better than what we had before.

    And you base this claim on what exactly?



    Do you by any chance still live at home with mommy and daddy? If so perhaps now is a good time to have a long discussion about how family finances work, and learn the repercussions of suddenly being forced to pay $500 per month more than your current budget, under threat of jail time if you don't.


    Please explain to me how a perfectly healthy 23 year old college grad is now better off being forced to buy private healthcare insurance rather than moving out of their parents home and starting their own life. Please explain to me how the self employed are now better off by having their current healthcare plans cancelled and being forced to buy ones that cost 2-3 times as much as they paid before. Please do explain how taking the working poor and bottom end of the middle class and demanding they pay well over $500 per month in new healthcare costs is a good thing for them. Please explain to me how someone working a full time job and suddenly being reduced to only part time hours so their employer can avoid paying these inflated prices is a good thing for them, and then explain how asking that now part time employee to pay over $500 per month for their own private insurance makes things better for them.





    It's pretty easy to see who has mommy and daddy to pay for them and who controls their own family budgets here.

    (PS, claiming SS is successful makes you look REALLY stupid. Odds are SS will be gone before you retire because the system is going bankrupt. If I were you I wouldn't count on ever seeing a dime of what you pay into SS, because it's a total failure and is expected to be totally out of money by 2033 at the latest.)
    Last edited by Completely Average; 11-06-2013 at 16:29.

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    How many people discussing Healthcare Insurance have any idea how healthcare insurance actually works?



    Let's start with the basics. The Obamacare Bronze packages are basically Medicaid. They have the exact same coverage as Medicaid, and they pay doctors the same as Medicaid. If you have one of these new healthcare plans you are effectively considered a Medicaid patient, which means most hospitals and doctors will refuse to accept you as a new patient and many tests and treatments will not be performed on you due to the costs and lack of government compensation.

    Now, let's say you have a health problem and have managed to find a doctor who will treat you. You have a deductible, and the norm with a Bronze healthcare plan is $10,000. That means you have to pay $10,000 worth of healthcare costs out of your own pocket before your insurance will pay a dime. If you don't spend $10,000 per year on healthcare then expect your insurance to be worthless as you will be required to pay the full costs yourself.

    Now, let's say you exceed that $10,000 level. You've met your deductible and still have medical bills rolling in. Now what? Well, that Bronze package only covers 60% of healthcare costs, which means that you're still responsible for paying 40% of the additional costs (On top of the $10,000 you had to pay up front).


    So, let's add this up.

    You have $6,000 per year in health insurance premium costs.
    You have to spend $10,000 in a year to cover your deductible.
    Insurance only covers 60% of costs.



    In short, you will virtually always pay more out of your own pocket than insurance will cover. Your medical bills will have to exceed more than $120,000 in a single year before your insurance will pay as much as you do, and at that point you'll be expected to pay $60,000 of that out of your own pocket. $6,000 in premiums, $10,000 for your deductible, and $44,000 in uncovered medical bills.


    If your normal annual healthcare costs are less than $16,000 then it would be cheaper for you to have no insurance and pay the costs out of your own pocket than to get an Obamacare Bronze plan.



    Ain't Obamacare grand?
    Last edited by Completely Average; 11-06-2013 at 16:58.

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  13. #4912
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    I really hope this crashes so hard...so we can get on with the 2016. This Healthcare reform is BS.

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  14. #4913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    How many people discussing Healthcare Insurance have any idea how healthcare insurance actually works?



    Let's start with the basics. The Obamacare Bronze packages are basically Medicaid. They have the exact same coverage as Medicaid, and they pay doctors the same as Medicaid. If you have one of these new healthcare plans you are effectively considered a Medicaid patient, which means most hospitals and doctors will refuse to accept you as a new patient and many tests and treatments will not be performed on you due to the costs and lack of government compensation.

    Now, let's say you have a health problem and have managed to find a doctor who will treat you. You have a deductible, and the norm with a Bronze healthcare plan is $10,000. That means you have to pay $10,000 worth of healthcare costs out of your own pocket before your insurance will pay a dime. If you don't spend $10,000 per year on healthcare then expect your insurance to be worthless as you will be required to pay the full costs yourself.

    Now, let's say you exceed that $10,000 level. You've met your deductible and still have medical bills rolling in. Now what? Well, that Bronze package only covers 60% of healthcare costs, which means that you're still responsible for paying 40% of the additional costs (On top of the $10,000 you had to pay up front).


    So, let's add this up.

    You have $6,000 per year in health insurance premium costs.
    You have to spend $10,000 in a year to cover your deductible.
    Insurance only covers 60% of costs.



    In short, you will virtually always pay more out of your own pocket than insurance will cover. Your medical bills will have to exceed more than $120,000 in a single year before your insurance will pay as much as you do, and at that point you'll be expected to pay $60,000 of that out of your own pocket. $6,000 in premiums, $10,000 for your deductible, and $44,000 in uncovered medical bills.


    If your normal annual healthcare costs are less than $16,000 then it would be cheaper for you to have no insurance and pay the costs out of your own pocket than to get an Obamacare Bronze plan.



    Ain't Obamacare grand?
    That's a big if and it's obviously not that way for everyone. It's not surprising that some of the industry is fighting this. We all know they have been ripping people off for a long time with no consequences. The health care industry need some regulation. There is way too much discrimination going on with it. And don't believe everything you hear about prices. You are right when you question people's knowledge of how the industry works. That's just what the industry wants. It benefits them. The more people learn the more the industry doesn't like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    How many people discussing Healthcare Insurance have any idea how healthcare insurance actually works?



    Let's start with the basics. The Obamacare Bronze packages are basically Medicaid. They have the exact same coverage as Medicaid, and they pay doctors the same as Medicaid. If you have one of these new healthcare plans you are effectively considered a Medicaid patient, which means most hospitals and doctors will refuse to accept you as a new patient and many tests and treatments will not be performed on you due to the costs and lack of government compensation.

    Now, let's say you have a health problem and have managed to find a doctor who will treat you. You have a deductible, and the norm with a Bronze healthcare plan is $10,000. That means you have to pay $10,000 worth of healthcare costs out of your own pocket before your insurance will pay a dime. If you don't spend $10,000 per year on healthcare then expect your insurance to be worthless as you will be required to pay the full costs yourself.

    Now, let's say you exceed that $10,000 level. You've met your deductible and still have medical bills rolling in. Now what? Well, that Bronze package only covers 60% of healthcare costs, which means that you're still responsible for paying 40% of the additional costs (On top of the $10,000 you had to pay up front).


    So, let's add this up.

    You have $6,000 per year in health insurance premium costs.
    You have to spend $10,000 in a year to cover your deductible.
    Insurance only covers 60% of costs.



    In short, you will virtually always pay more out of your own pocket than insurance will cover. Your medical bills will have to exceed more than $120,000 in a single year before your insurance will pay as much as you do, and at that point you'll be expected to pay $60,000 of that out of your own pocket. $6,000 in premiums, $10,000 for your deductible, and $44,000 in uncovered medical bills.


    If your normal annual healthcare costs are less than $16,000 then it would be cheaper for you to have no insurance and pay the costs out of your own pocket than to get an Obamacare Bronze plan.



    Ain't Obamacare grand?
    Ours is:

    Prem. cost: $624.00/month
    Deductible: $750
    % covered: 90%
    out of pocket: $2000




  16. #4915
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    mine went up a dollar and change a week...


    hasn't moved much over the lst several years


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    Trust me, it's sad

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  18. #4917
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    I guess they are taking the success by any measure approach:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-never-target/

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    a step as big as this, i'm surprised people are expecting excellent results...but the real question should be, where is it going? what is the trend? are we going to reach those 17m people? and by when?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    a step as big as this, i'm surprised people are expecting excellent results...but the real question should be, where is it going? what is the trend? are we going to reach those 17m people? and by when?
    The worst is yet to come. This is only the tip of the iceberg. The fouled up website launch was a huge PR disaster, but the problems that will arise in the years ahead will dwarf it in comparison.

    Obama said you could keep your insurance if you like it...... that was a lie. He also said you could keep your doctors if you like them...... people are quickly finding out that's a lie too. A lot of doctors aren't in the network of providers of the issuance people are choosing through Obamacare.

    This is what happens when you ram through a huge government program without bipartisan support. They can't blame it's failures on the party that didn't have a single member vote for it or have a hand in drafting it up. Remember when Nancy Pelosi said we had to pass the bill in order to find out what was in it? Translation..... sign on the dotted line and THEN you can read the dirty little details of the fine print of the contract you just committed yourself to.

    Obama is already backtracking on the individual mandate after already delaying the employer mandate. Doctors left and right for years have been limiting or refusing medicare and medicaid patients because they are reimbursed only a fraction of what it really costs to provide the care for them.

    There is rationing for those programs today. The hoops you have to jump through and the paperwork you have to fill out just to get paid the little money the government reimburses turns out to effectively ration the care that is provided. Just wait until Obamacare fully hits. Another program that will eventually lower it's reimbursement rates just like medicare and medicaid did.

    What I find hilarious is the Democrats have flamed Republicans who have refused to implement state exchanges and are instead dumping people into the federal obamacare program. To which I say to Democrats...... if obamacare is such a great program then why are you mad when people are placed in it instead of state exchanges? If obamacare is so great... you should be applauding the decision to put them in the program.
    Last edited by GreatSpaceKoaster; 01-01-2014 at 01:06.

  21. #4920
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    why do you think democrats are pushing it down america's throat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    why do you think democrats are pushing it down america's throat?
    Because it's what the President wanted, and they think they will get more votes.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Because it's what the President wanted, and they think they will get more votes.
    why does the president want that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    why does the president want that?
    Legacy. and votes for his party. If they can make people believe they'll continue to get free stuff when they are in control.
    Last edited by F34R; 01-01-2014 at 03:51.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Legacy. and votes for his party. If they can make people believe they'll continue to get free stuff when they are in control.
    or cheaper, right? well, if it's not cheaper then who does it benefit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    or cheaper, right? well, if it's not cheaper then who does it benefit?
    Those that don't work, or barely make any money, employer doesn't provide healthcare. Those people will get the benefit of higher earning workers paying the bill while those others get subsidies.




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