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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Those that don't work, or barely make any money, employer doesn't provide healthcare. Those people will get the benefit of higher earning workers paying the bill while those others get subsidies.
    so they need tougher laws about people who aren't trying to find work. otherwise, i thought that's what the point of govt. was. i do see your point, they should have stricter laws about benefits.

    so wait, you get free healthcare if you are poor now? Is it different from before?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    why do you think democrats are pushing it down america's throat?
    Because they want people addicted to entitlements, freebies and government control. Like a crack addict, once people get a taste of the goodies, it's hard to get them off the addiction. Just look at people's reaction when you try to take government freebies away? They go nuts. Even when you simply ask them to kick-in or kick-in a little more towards THEIR benefits that they will receive and they balk at the notion.

    Democrats are crack dealers. They tell the addicts (voters) that they will keep receiving their crack (freebies) if they keep Democrats in power. They portray the Republicans as the party that's gonna take your free $#@! away from you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    why does the president want that?
    Because he believes in redistribution of wealth and big government control. He sees rich people as marks that need to be robbed of the income they have accumulated. He thinks the money you earn is government's money and not your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    so they need tougher laws about people who aren't trying to find work. otherwise, i thought that's what the point of govt. was. i do see your point, they should have stricter laws about benefits.

    so wait, you get free healthcare if you are poor now? Is it different from before?
    It's different in that they have expanded the definition of who is poor and who qualifies for subsidies. By expanding the qualifications of who is poor, you expand the amount of people who are takers and not makers. You expand the amount of people addicted to government freebies and subsidies. And the pitch is.... if you want those freebies to keep rolling in, you had better keep voting the Democratic party into office.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Because they want people addicted to entitlements, freebies and government control. Like a crack addict, once people get a taste of the goodies, it's hard to get them off the addiction. Just look at people's reaction when you try to take government freebies away? They go nuts. Even when you simply ask them to kick-in or kick-in a little more towards THEIR benefits that they will receive and they balk at the notion.

    Democrats are crack dealers. They tell the addicts (voters) that they will keep receiving their crack (freebies) if they keep Democrats in power. They portray the Republicans as the party that's gonna take your free $#@! away from you.
    could you give an example of what govt. had tried to do about it and that there was an outrage that effectively overcame the possible decision?

    It's different in that they have expanded the definition of who is poor and who qualifies for subsidies. By expanding the qualifications of who is poor, you expand the amount of people who are takers and not makers. You expand the amount of people addicted to government freebies and subsidies. And the pitch is.... if you want those freebies to keep rolling in, you had better keep voting the Democratic party into office.
    could you show me where this was changed? and how that correlates with govt. subsidies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    could you give an example of what govt. had tried to do about it and that there was an outrage that effectively overcame the possible decision?

    could you show me where this was changed? and how that correlates with govt. subsidies?
    A recent example is the state of Wisconsin. The Republican governor Scott Walker put an end to collective bargaining on benefits (they can still bargain on wages) for public workers. The exception was made for those that put their lives in danger (Fireman and Police Officers).

    Government workers were having their Cadillac (Top of the line) health benefits 100% paid for by the taxpayers of Wisconsin. All the governor said was that they need to start kicking in some of their own money (no more than 12%-15% of the premium) towards health issuance that benefits them and their family. The government workers said hell no! They had huge protests in the streets over it.





    That's what happens when people get addicted to freebies. When you try and take it away or suggest they need to kick in a share of the cost of the premium, they go crazy.

    Just look at any government program that gets threatened with cuts of any kind. People take to the streets or threaten strikes over it. Just look at the country of Greece. Their country was broke, but the people still took to the streets over cuts to government jobs or benefits that were done to help stop the hemorrhaging of money and as a condition of the EU bailout. No bank is gonna keep lending you money if you just keep spending money like there is no tomorrow. They needed to do the cuts in order to show that they were serious about getting their spending problem under control.



    But do you think the people on the receiving end of those benefits cared if it was bankrupting the country? NOPE! All they cared about is maintaining the gravy train. Once you get people hooked on freebies, they feel like they can't survive or shouldn't be made to survive without them.

    Look at the marriage deduction on tax forms. Also look at deductions made for dependent children. When you take deductions on your taxes, that is money you aren't going to be paying into the system. Because you aren't paying that money, the government has to look elsewhere to make up that shortfall. And that usually ends up in the form of higher taxes on the rich or on single people that don't qualify for deductions.

    Now..... you even suggest that those deductions be taken away or paired back a little and people will be hitting the streets in protest. They will vote in the person that will keep those deductions in place. That's what I mean by the addiction. They are hooked on them and will do anything it takes to maintain their addiction.

    As for your second question..... I can't show you because I don't have the history of qualifications at my finger tips. I just know what I've seen over the years. That they lower the criteria of who qualifies for freebies over the years. If you don't qualify now, just wait. As the years pass. your income level could qualifiy for freebies or subsidies that you didn't qualify for in the past. And I'm not talking about the natural rise due to cost of living increases. I'm talking about parameters that exceed the rate of inflation and costs of living.

    Think about it.... if you want more people to keep Santa Claus (the Democrats) in office, then Santa Claus needs to modify and lower the standards of who is naughty and nice so more people can qualify as nice and hence more people get presents (freebies).

    Democrats will always out promise goodies over Republicans. It's hard to beat Santa Claus. Just like if you had a class election and you said "If you vote for me, I'll give you free pool parties and buy you lunch every day if you vote for me". Unless his opponent can hook them with a better offer, he is likely to lose. Hence my point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    A recent example is the state of Wisconsin. The Republican governor Scott Walker put an end to collective bargaining on benefits (they can still bargain on wages) for public workers. The exception was made for those that put their lives in danger (Fireman and Police Officers).

    Government workers were having their Cadillac (Top of the line) health benefits 100% paid for by the taxpayers of Wisconsin. All the governor said was that they need to start kicking in some of their own money (no more than 12%-15% of the premium) towards health issuance that benefits them and their family. The government workers said hell no! They had huge protests in the streets over it.





    That's what happens when people get addicted to freebies. When you try and take it away or suggest they need to kick in a share of the cost of the premium, they go crazy.

    Just look at any government program that gets threatened with cuts of any kind. People take to the streets or threaten strikes over it. Just look at the country of Greece. Their country was broke, but the people still took to the streets over cuts to government jobs or benefits that were done to help stop the hemorrhaging of money and as a condition of the EU bailout. No bank is gonna keep lending you money if you just keep spending money like there is no tomorrow. They needed to do the cuts in order to show that they were serious about getting their spending problem under control.
    so wait, how much do govt. people pay in the rest of the states?

    Greece is full of democrats?


    But do you think the people on the receiving end of those benefits cared if it was bankrupting the country? NOPE! All they cared about is maintaining the gravy train. Once you get people hooked on freebies, they feel like they can't survive or shouldn't be made to survive without them.

    Look at the marriage deduction on tax forms. Also look at deductions made for dependent children. When you take deductions on your taxes, that is money you aren't going to be paying into the system. Because you aren't paying that money, the government has to look elsewhere to make up that shortfall. And that usually ends up in the form of higher taxes on the rich or on single people that don't qualify for deductions.

    Now..... you even suggest that those deductions be taken away or paired back a little and people will be hitting the streets in protest. They will vote in the person that will keep those deductions in place. That's what I mean by the addiction. They are hooked on them and will do anything it takes to maintain their addiction.
    so you're saying that these deductions were approved by democrats and republicans don't support it? so then why don't republican states (especially the likes of Texas) change it? why aren't they fighting the system? basically i'm trying to see how this correlates to democrats and more importantly the poor ones that are leeching the system.

    As for your second question..... I can't show you because I don't have the history of qualifications at my finger tips. I just know what I've seen over the years. That they lower the criteria of who qualifies for freebies over the years. If you don't qualify now, just wait. As the years pass. your income level could qualifiy for freebies or subsidies that you didn't qualify for in the past. And I'm not talking about the natural rise due to cost of living increases. I'm talking about parameters that exceed the rate of inflation and costs of living.

    Think about it.... if you want more people to keep Santa Claus (the Democrats) in office, then Santa Claus needs to modify and lower the standards of who is naughty and nice so more people can qualify as nice and hence more people get presents (freebies).

    Democrats will always out promise goodies over Republicans. It's hard to beat Santa Claus. Just like if you had a class election and you said "If you vote for me, I'll give you free pool parties and buy you lunch every day if you vote for me". Unless his opponent can hook them with a better offer, he is likely to lose. Hence my point.
    ok point taken, democrats want socialism, republicans want a more free market, fine. you don't need to go into much details, but you must at least have some example of the poverty line changing as you firmly believe that this is what's happening. even in the past, not necessarily recent, anything?

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    so wait, how much do govt. people pay in the rest of the states?
    It depends on the state. Each state is different. Some states the workers pay nothing, some states they pay something. How much of a something they pay depends on the state.

    Greece is full of democrats?
    In terms of mindset.... yes. They didn't want any cutbacks of any kind for any reason even as the country was going broke.

    so you're saying that these deductions were approved by democrats and republicans don't support it? so then why don't republican states (especially the likes of Texas) change it? why aren't they fighting the system? basically i'm trying to see how this correlates to democrats and more importantly the poor ones that are leeching the system.
    Some Republican's support it if they aren't fiscally conservative. We call those Republicans RINOs {Republicans In Name Only). To be fair to Democrats... there are some fiscally conservative Democrats. They are called blue dog Democrats by the Republicans and called DINOs (Democrats In Name Only) by fellow Democrats.

    The only concept of tax deductions that Republicans like is the fact that it allows the taxpayer to keep more of his or her money that they earned. The problem they have with deductions is that they come at the expense of other taxpayers (rich people).

    Most Republicans would rather have a flat tax where everyone pays the same amount of tax on every dollar earned as the next guy. They don't believe in a progressive tax system where the more money you make, the more tax that take out of every dollar earned over a certain amount. That's penalizing people who make more money than others. There is nothing fair about that.

    As for Republican's making changes? They have. Rome wasn't built in a day. It takes time to chip away at the entitlement systems in place. Scott Walker took away collective bargaining rights in Wisconsin that had been in place for decades. And look at the reaction from the workers when he did.....hence the huge protests.


    ok point taken, democrats want socialism, republicans want a more free market, fine. you don't need to go into much details, but you must at least have some example of the poverty line changing as you firmly believe that this is what's happening. even in the past, not necessarily recent, anything?
    Off the top of my head...no. I'm going based off me, my family, co-workers and friends over the years and our discussions about it. I remember out of the blue getting a notice that I NOW qualified for low income health insurance from the state. It wasn't cuz my wages were stagnant. I did get raises. It was because they had increased the size of the net by including income levels that were higher and higher.

    I also noticed that I qualified for homestead credits I hadn't in the past. It wasn't that I was more poor, it's just they changed the definition of poor so that I'd qualify as so.

    I mean... over the years I've seen people qualify for more and more $#@! that they hadn't in the past. Energy assistance, food assistance, health care assistance, child care assistance, rent assistance, tax deductions, etc etc etc. The more things they make you eligible for, the bigger potential that you will keep voting in the people that keep this stuff flowing. Hence why they do it.

  7. #4932
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    It depends on the state. Each state is different. Some states the workers pay nothing, some states they pay something. How much of a something they pay depends on the state.
    and how much do they pay in those states? also just curious, which states are those? or at least a couple of them.

    In terms of mindset.... yes. They didn't want any cutbacks of any kind for any reason even as the country was going broke.
    Now you have the burden of proof that Greeks are, at least, largely democrats.

    Some Republican's support it if they aren't fiscally conservative. We call those Republicans RINOs {Republicans In Name Only). To be fair to Democrats... there are some fiscally conservative Democrats. They are called blue dog Democrats by the Republicans and called DINOs (Democrats In Name Only) by fellow Democrats.

    The only concept of tax deductions that Republicans like is the fact that it allows the taxpayer to keep more of his or her money that they earned. The problem they have with deductions is that they come at the expense of other taxpayers (rich people).

    Most Republicans would rather have a flat tax where everyone pays the same amount of tax on every dollar earned as the next guy. They don't believe in a progressive tax system where the more money you make, the more tax that take out of every dollar earned over a certain amount. That's penalizing people who make more money than others. There is nothing fair about that.
    an extreme version of progressive tax system, i don't agree with but i don't think taxing the same amount for everyone is fair. that's because the wealth distribution is extremely skewed in this country. i'm being pretty fair here.

    As for Republican's making changes? They have. Rome wasn't built in a day. It takes time to chip away at the entitlement systems in place. Scott Walker took away collective bargaining rights in Wisconsin that had been in place for decades. And look at the reaction from the workers when he did.....hence the huge protests.
    do you realize that wisconsin is barely a blue state? you'd have to show me that these people were all democrats. would you know that for sure?

    Off the top of my head...no. I'm going based off me, my family, co-workers and friends over the years and our discussions about it. I remember out of the blue getting a notice that I NOW qualified for low income health insurance from the state. It wasn't cuz my wages were stagnant. I did get raises. It was because they had increased the size of the net by including income levels that were higher and higher.

    I also noticed that I qualified for homestead credits I hadn't in the past. It wasn't that I was more poor, it's just they changed the definition of poor so that I'd qualify as so.

    I mean... over the years I've seen people qualify for more and more $#@! that they hadn't in the past. Energy assistance, food assistance, health care assistance, child care assistance, rent assistance, tax deductions, etc etc etc. The more things they make you eligible for, the bigger potential that you will keep voting in the people that keep this stuff flowing. Hence why they do it.
    you know, the poverty guidelines are pretty cut clear, you would only need to google it. they are pretty specific about what qualifies as poor. it would not surprise me if the poverty level is slowly rising as the inflation is rising and the cost of living too. in fact, if it weren't for the recent push for a higher minimum wage, we would still have minimum wage that would be well below the cost of living.

    so your entire basis on this issue is anecdotal evidence around you, maybe you should look at the entire nation and see it from that perspective. how high is the poverty level is now compared to say...10 years ago? and then look at basic things (which I'm sure aren't the only indicator) like cost of living and the minimum wage.

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    and how much do they pay in those states? also just curious, which states are those? or at least a couple of them.
    Don't remember off the top of my head. I read a dozen or so articles each day. I remember the synopsis of the articles more than all the details. I don't have them bookmarked or stored on my computer. I could use up a lot of my day hunting down these facts just for you to simply say "okay...I believe you". But it's not worth the effort. Believe me or don't. I don't care. Go scour the net and find out for yourself. The info is there somewhere. The great thing about articles is the author does all the exhaustive footwork for me and presents it all in his or her piece.


    Now you have the burden of proof that Greeks are, at least, largely democrats.
    Democrats will spend spend spend even as we are going broke. So in that sense... the Greeks are acting like Democrats. Is their party affiliation actually Democrat? Don't know. What I do know is as they are going down a financial drain, they didn't want to stop spending. And that.... is your classic Democrat behavior.

    an extreme version of progressive tax system, i don't agree with but i don't think taxing the same amount for everyone is fair. that's because the wealth distribution is extremely skewed in this country. i'm being pretty fair here
    .

    In a free market, wealth distribution is always skewed. Not everyone can be a millionaire or rich. Those that do better should keep as much as possible. I'm far from rich but I don't hate on the rich or want to try and take money away from them. I think if you earn a dollar, you pay a fixed percent on that dollar. That's why I don't believe in redistribution of wealth. Jealous, envious, thieving haters believe in such things.

    do you realize that wisconsin is barely a blue state? you'd have to show me that these people were all democrats. would you know that for sure?
    It's a purple state. It's had Republican governors before, but I can't recall the last time the state senate and house were both in Republican hands. In fact.... the Democrats have held on to those for years.... hence why their laws and policies have been heavily skewed democratic. I don't think Republicans have ever had this opportunity EVER. It's been a tax hell for businesses forever. Republicans are just now being able to lower them.

    you know, the poverty guidelines are pretty cut clear, you would only need to google it. they are pretty specific about what qualifies as poor. it would not surprise me if the poverty level is slowly rising as the inflation is rising and the cost of living too. in fact, if it weren't for the recent push for a higher minimum wage, we would still have minimum wage that would be well below the cost of living.
    Inflation and cost of living have been pretty flat for awhile now. Poverty guidelines are pretty clear, but they do change. Also... states are able to independently determine where the thresholds are from what the feds choose to do subsidies. It's why for years Illinois residents were either qualifying for or double dipping for years in Wisconsin's welfare system until Wisconsin finally started cracking down on them.

    so your entire basis on this issue is anecdotal evidence around you, maybe you should look at the entire nation and see it from that perspective. how high is the poverty level is now compared to say...10 years ago? and then look at basic things (which I'm sure aren't the only indicator) like cost of living and the minimum wage.
    It's anecdotal based on my experience and those around me. It wasn't me doing a college research paper on the subject. We just noticed that as the years went by, we started qualifying for things I would have never thought we would have..... since we didn't feel like our income made us poor. We were all doing pretty okay. Not rich, but certainly not poor.

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    I wouldn't disbelieve any of it. However, it almost sounds like sour grapes.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I wouldn't disbelieve any of it. However, it almost sounds like sour grapes.
    Maybe. But then again, if a person went through all of that, would you expect everything to be kept under wraps?

    Also:

    http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/01/fa...rine-veterans/

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    Yea, like thats gonna happen....lol

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    GreatSpaceKoaster, I applaud your attack on entitlement mentality and how America's political elite are finding out that they can basically vote themselves (and their allies) wealth and power and will do anything to keep it.

    However, I'm a bit disconcerted with your high appraisal of Republicans and their policies- in particular that you believe they are dead set 'against' entitlements as a matter of principle. I'd argue this is not the case and I'd simply point at the present state of our military. It is enormously bloated and we wage war largely at the profit of military contractors and the DOD. Yes, there are just causes of war obviously but outside of Afghanistan I can't really remember the last one with the exception of WW2.

    The present state of our military can be, frankly, accurately described as a gravy train. The benefits, pay and perks far outweigh any 'contribution' most of the people in the uniform actually provide to our country. We wrap them in a clothes of heroes and patriots because we long ago swallowed the lie of the 'moral war' and the saviors that the armed forces represent for us and those abroad. Our military might well out strips the budget of Russia and China combined, even if you multiply by two. This is excessive beyond belief.

    The Republican and Democrat party represent two sides of the same vile coin in this country. A strictly binary political system has corroded the ethics and values of this nation. Both engage in crony capitalism and unduly empower corporate bodies to act as they see fit while also vastly expanding federal power. This is not an 'attack' on business by my part, as I see it as simply a force. A business is there to make money and so they will do whatever they can (preferably within the law, but sometimes beyond it) in order to do that. When the government steps in and offers to allow them greater free reign in unsavory ways for money or help you get what we have now. This is not how a free market should work.

    We need people with coherent political ideology. This is why I broke off from Republican party years ago and parted ways with conservatism. I feel that the only sane choice now is to form a third party. At present I embrace a Libertarian philosophy and thus far it has served me well.

    But I think we can all agree, hopefully, how chilling the recent events with Assange, Snowden and the NSA have been. The stuff of conspiracies and lunatics made real and tangible.

    What is remarkable is that a few hundred years ago half of this stuff would have likely instigated an open armed rebellion.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 01-09-2014 at 22:12.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    GreatSpaceKoaster, I applaud your attack on entitlement mentality and how America's political elite are finding out that they can basically vote themselves (and their allies) wealth and power and will do anything to keep it.

    However, I'm a bit disconcerted with your high appraisal of Republicans and their policies- in particular that you believe they are dead set 'against' entitlements as a matter of principle. I'd argue this is not the case and I'd simply point at the present state of our military. It is enormously bloated and we wage war largely at the profit of military contractors and the DOD. Yes, there are just causes of war obviously but outside of Afghanistan I can't really remember the last one outside of WW2.

    The present state of our military can be, frankly, accurately described as a gravy train. The benefits, pay and perks far outweigh any 'contribution' most of the people in the uniform actually provide to our country. We wrap them in a clothes of heroes and patriots because we long ago swallowed the lie of the 'moral war' and the saviors that the armed forces represent for us and those abroad. Our military might well out strips the budget of Russia and China combined, even if you multiply by two. This is excessive beyond belief.

    The Republican and Democrat party represent two sides of the same vile coin in this country. A strictly binary political system has corroded the ethics and values of this nation. Both engage in crony capitalism and unduly empower corporate bodies to act as they see fit while also vastly expanding federal power. This is not an 'attack' on business by my part, as I see it as simply a force. A business is there to make money and so they will do whatever they can (preferably within the law, but sometimes beyond it) in order to do that. When the government steps in and offers to allow them greater free reign in unsavory ways for money or help you get what we have now. This is not how a free market should work.

    We need people with coherent political ideology. This is why I broke off from Republican party years ago and parted ways with conservatism. I feel that the only sane choice now is to form a third party. At present I embrace a Libertarian philosophy and thus far it has served me well.

    But I think we can all agree, hopefully, how chilling the recent events with Assange, Snowden and the NSA have been. The stuff of conspiracies and lunatics made real and tangible.

    What is remarkable is that a few hundred years ago half of this stuff would have likely instigated an open armed rebellion.
    point being, we're all being played - divided and conquered (demos vs repubs). any resistance to this massive global organization of wealthies that control the world, would be thwarted unless it benefited them e.g. arab spring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Yea, like thats gonna happen....lol


    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    point being, we're all being played - divided and conquered (demos vs repubs). any resistance to this massive global organization of wealthies that control the world, would be thwarted unless it benefited them e.g. arab spring.
    Don't start with the NWO stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post



    lol. a joke is a good description of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    lol. a joke is a good description of that.
    It's a joke that fallujah fell after all we went through to control it.

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    That we invaded Iraq at all was a joke. But yes, it is super tragic that after all the blood, sweat and tears we put into that area and we lose it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    It's a joke that fallujah fell after all we went through to control it.
    It is a joke, but it's on them, not us. That's what happens when you allow corrupt people to be in charge. Its their fight now, and we never should of had to control it in the first place.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 01-10-2014 at 01:57.

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    To Vulgotha......

    First of all, I'm both conservative and libertarian. As for Republicans? Not all Republicans are conservative. We've had our share of non-conservative Republicans get into office. George W. Bush wasn't very conservative. He spent too much money. He also introduced a HUGE new entitlement when he signed the Medicare Part D bill.

    As for the military? You sound like the Ron Paul crowd. The stick your head in the sand crowd. The defense of our country is not a gravy train. Not when those involved can lose their lives for a war or conflict they may not always agree with. They just do their job despite the risk. The defense of the country's very existence was the cornerstone of why the federal government was formed. Not to hand out government freebies.

    The reason we spend so much money on our military is because in order to have the best chance at defending ourselves, we must invest in the best military as possible. Especially if we would have to go up against a country like China with 1.3 billion people vs. our 317 million. And getting the brightest people and ideas doesn't come cheap. Is there some military waste? Yes. But a true conservative will flush it out. A pork barrel wannabe conservative Republican will not.

    True conservatives believe in being as self-sufficient as possible. Not coming from the attitude of what's the next freebie I can come up with to hand out to people so they can become dependent on government. I mean, we have cities run by liberals that will pay for a city worker's sex change operation at taxpayer expense. Why am I paying for someone's elective surgery? They aren't gonna die as a result of not getting the surgery. They think they were born the wrong sex? Save up your own $#@!ing money to pay for it and stop leeching off the rest of us to get it for free. I don't mind helping the truly needy in our country. But all I've seen in this country is the entitlement mentality grow and grow as each year goes by.

    People start framing things as "rights" to get them paid for by somebody else. Just look at the birth control mandate in Obamacare. Birth control is cheap, not a medical necessity. Yet.... they want others to pay for it cuz free birth control to them is a "human right".

    As for a 3rd party? We have one in the Republican party.... it's called the Tea Party. The Tea Party is there so the Republican party gets back to being conservative instead of acting like Democrat-lites. A party that believes that a man that earns a dollar, should be able to keep as much of it as possible. Not devising ways of taking more and more of it away from him. A party that believes in keeping rights, not finding reasons to take them away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    To Vulgotha......

    First of all, I'm both conservative and libertarian. As for Republicans? Not all Republicans are conservative. We've had our share of non-conservative Republicans get into office. George W. Bush wasn't very conservative. He spent too much money. He also introduced a HUGE new entitlement when he signed the Medicare Part D bill.

    As for the military? You sound like the Ron Paul crowd. The stick your head in the sand crowd. The defense of our country is not a gravy train. Not when those involved can lose their lives for a war or conflict they may not always agree with. They just do their job despite the risk. The defense of the country's very existence was the cornerstone of why the federal government was formed. Not to hand out government freebies.

    The reason we spend so much money on our military is because in order to have the best chance at defending ourselves, we must invest in the best military as possible. Especially if we would have to go up against a country like China with 1.3 billion people vs. our 317 million. And getting the brightest people and ideas doesn't come cheap. Is there some military waste? Yes. But a true conservative will flush it out. A pork barrel wannabe conservative Republican will not.

    True conservatives believe in being as self-sufficient as possible. Not coming from the attitude of what's the next freebie I can come up with to hand out to people so they can become dependent on government. I mean, we have cities run by liberals that will pay for a city worker's sex change operation at taxpayer expense. Why am I paying for someone's elective surgery? They aren't gonna die as a result of not getting the surgery. They think they were born the wrong sex? Save up your own $#@!ing money to pay for it and stop leeching off the rest of us to get it for free. I don't mind helping the truly needy in our country. But all I've seen in this country is the entitlement mentality grow and grow as each year goes by.

    People start framing things as "rights" to get them paid for by somebody else. Just look at the birth control mandate in Obamacare. Birth control is cheap, not a medical necessity. Yet.... they want others to pay for it cuz free birth control to them is a "human right".

    As for a 3rd party? We have one in the Republican party.... it's called the Tea Party. The Tea Party is there so the Republican party gets back to being conservative instead of acting like Democrat-lites. A party that believes that a man that earns a dollar, should be able to keep as much of it as possible. Not devising ways of taking more and more of it away from him. A party that believes in keeping rights, not finding reasons to take them away.
    But you could also argue that a republican treads all over the poor. Sure it's all right saying you can keep your hard earned dollar, but from your response I take it your middle class, well a working class person gets a wage just enough to pay the rent and some food on his table, sometimes going without food. A family is in even a worse state, it is proof that the poor stay poor and the rich stay rich, and the tax system is even more unfair the banks for example get tax releif and low taxes while the ceo gets a tax break on his bonus while the struggling family man has to pay his fair share of tax otherwise prison.
    Sent from my computer using keyboard.

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    The poor stay poor and the rich stay rich. Classic slogan in these current political times. It goes deeper than that though. Capitalism is based upon the principle that everyone has the OPPORTUNITY to become rich. Just like the founding fathers preached, all men are created equal and have equal opportunity. However, that does not mean that all men have equal talents or intellect. Here's an idea, the rich keep getting richer because they keep doing the thing that got them rich in the first place be it economics, selling crack, or intellectual inventions. And the poor stay poor because they keep doing the same $#@! that got them poor in the first place. Living off the government and not contributing to the economic system and making a gigantic cycle of a governmental nanny state for generations to come.

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    $#@! capitalism more socialism the better
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnotGamer901 View Post
    The poor stay poor and the rich stay rich. Classic slogan in these current political times. It goes deeper than that though. Capitalism is based upon the principle that everyone has the OPPORTUNITY to become rich. Just like the founding fathers preached, all men are created equal and have equal opportunity. However, that does not mean that all men have equal talents or intellect. Here's an idea, the rich keep getting richer because they keep doing the thing that got them rich in the first place be it economics, selling crack, or intellectual inventions. And the poor stay poor because they keep doing the same $#@! that got them poor in the first place. Living off the government and not contributing to the economic system and making a gigantic cycle of a governmental nanny state for generations to come.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    Thats BS. Thats like saying every rich and poor person is the same. Some people are poor because they fall on hard times and have difficulties getting back to where they were. All poor people don't live off the government and all the rich don't get richer.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 01-14-2014 at 23:10.

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    Not true in all cases, but it is true for some people.




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