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  1. #5201
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Taken from a commenter on another website:
    These are not newly insured people. If you do the math, that leaves only 1.2M newly insured people (out of 30M that they Democrats said are out there) that signed up via the exchange, and 75% of them were granted a subsidy.
    You can't be that naive to actually believe only 1.2 million newly insured have signed up. I mean, come on. Who is saying this crazy stuff? I believe a lot of the 7 million did have insurance before but that is one of the things it was designed to do. Get the covered people better/cheaper plans and make it more affordable for the ones who don't have it. 7 million is definitely a good number if you look at the disaster the rollout of the website was. It's working and more people will be singing up next enrollment period. It's definitely not a failure. So those saying it is need to come up with something else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    You can't be that naive to actually believe only 1.2 million newly insured have signed up. I mean, come on. Who is saying this crazy stuff? I believe a lot of the 7 million did have insurance before but that is one of the things it was designed to do. Get the covered people better/cheaper plans and make it more affordable for the ones who don't have it. 7 million is definitely a good number if you look at the disaster the rollout of the website was. It's working and more people will be singing up next enrollment period. It's definitely not a failure. So those saying it is need to come up with something else.
    1.2 million newly insured people (who never had insurance before) taking into account people who had their current plans cancelled and had to pick an ACA plan.

    That is believable. Much more so than taking the 7 million number at face value.

    And "Get the covered people better/cheaper plans and make it more affordable for the ones who don't have it." comes at what cost to others? What about people that have to pay higher premiums as a result. Or business cutting back worker hours to not have to supply them with healthcare insurance.

    Another set of questions to consider (also taken from a commentator from another website):

    That many signed up. Now for the REAL litmus test, to see where the numbers lie in the truly important areas:

    1. How many will pay their premiums? Anyone who doesn't will have their insurance cancelled, and the number I last saw (reported by the insurance companies themselves) was <25% had already paid. Could be a lot of cancellations coming up!

    2. How many were MedicAid signups? These will actually count AGAINST the success of Obamacare, as they represent a taxpayer burden. Sorry, but in reality, none of those should really count toward the 7 million, and the numbers I've seen for MedicAid signups said that there were way more than the administration had counted on having.

    3. How many signup were in the 18 to 35 age category? Again, this was a big point for Obamacare, to get the bulk of signups in that age category (since they usually have lower healthcare costs), to offset the higher costs in older age brackets. Last I heard, they weren't seeing the number of signups they needed by younger folks.

    So before anyone, on either side of the argument, starts crowing about the success or failure of the Obamacare law, why not sit back and see what REALITY brings us??

  3. #5203
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    1.2 million newly insured people (who never had insurance before) taking into account people who had their current plans cancelled and had to pick an ACA plan.

    That is believable. Much more so than taking the 7 million number at face value.

    And "Get the covered people better/cheaper plans and make it more affordable for the ones who don't have it." comes at what cost to others? What about people that have to pay higher premiums as a result. Or business cutting back worker hours to not have to supply them with healthcare insurance.

    Another set of questions to consider (also taken from a commentator from another website):
    its not face value, dude. when people weren't signing up and the website was $#@! the source was ok. now that the numbers are positive they cant be taken at face value. It can't go both ways. People are either going to sign up or either go without it. Even if you dont like it its better to be safe than sorry. Taking a chance on your health is too risky. people are obviously finding good plans that was better than they had before. I know this for a fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    its not face value, dude. when people weren't signing up and the website was $#@! the source was ok. now that the numbers are positive they cant be taken at face value. It can't go both ways. People are either going to sign up or either go without it. Even if you dont like it its better to be safe than sorry. Taking a chance on your health is too risky. people are obviously finding good plans that was better than they had before. I know this for a fact.
    Absolutely. My families best option for independently purchased health insurance before was way too much. Now we have a much more palatable price and a much better plan thanks to the ACA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix 2 View Post
    taken from a commenter on another website:
    c-c-c-combo breaker!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rekmon View Post
    Absolutely. My families best option for independently purchased health insurance before was way too much. Now we have a much more palatable price and a much better plan thanks to the ACA.
    You have to actually go and find out things for yourself because so much stuff is politically motivated nowadays. The health care industry have been ripping people off and used discrimination for years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    You have to actually go and find out things for yourself because so much stuff is politically motivated nowadays. The health care industry have been ripping people off and used discrimination for years.
    Believe me I understand that...but so many people fall for the bull$#@! spread by politically motivated liars.

    I for one am happy with my current health care setup thanks to the ACA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    You have to actually go and find out things for yourself because so much stuff is politically motivated nowadays. The health care industry have been ripping people off and used discrimination for years.
    So why not work to pass a law that would effectively stamp out the insurance industry in its entirety? The BEST way to make sure that insurance companies don't rip people off or discriminate is to make sure they no longer exist in the first place. But this is how I think it should be and I don't think many would ultimately agree with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    So why not work to pass a law that would effectively stamp out the insurance industry in its entirety? The BEST way to make sure that insurance companies don't rip people off or discriminate is to make sure they no longer exist in the first place. But this is how I think it should be and I don't think many would ultimately agree with me.
    insurance is a fraud and keeps people poor.

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    Isn't a significant part of the US healthcare problem the massively overpriced healthcare costs? In other words, the bills the insurers settle?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    S o why not work to pass a law that would effectively stamp out the insurance industry in its entirety? The BEST way to make sure that insurance companies don't rip people off or discriminate is to make sure they no longer exist in the first place. But this is how I think it should be and I don't think many would ultimately agree with me.
    thats a question you should ask congress. You know what, they won't because a lot of them have money invested in the healthcare system. That's why some of them are against it. It's not because they care if people get coverage or not. They never cared before.

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    that's why we need a complete overhaul. kick everyone out of the government that has a conflict of interest and start over.

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    Congress could certainly benefit from a do-over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    Congress could certainly benefit from a do-over.
    its not just congress. It's the people with the money who put them there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    its not just congress. It's the people with the money who put them there.
    Nah. Those people should be lined up and shot by firing squad. Those in congress too for that matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    that's why we need a complete overhaul. kick everyone out of the government that has a conflict of interest and start over.
    I would probably cry tears of joy if the America people finally stood stood up and stormed Congress to forcefully remove everyone from power. Unfortunately, Americans are contempt with being $#@!ed daily by a Government that has sold them out to the benefit of corporations and forsaken the Constitution.

    Realistically, I can only hope as the old $#@!ers in Congress die off or retire, younger people with more progressive and varied ideas, open minded views of the world, will fill their places. A generation of today, leading today. But hell, they'll probably be bought off too...
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  18. #5217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    I would probably cry tears of joy if the America people finally stood stood up and stormed Congress to forcefully remove everyone from power. Unfortunately, Americans are contempt with being $#@!ed daily by a Government that has sold them out to the benefit of corporations and forsaken the Constitution.

    Realistically, I can only hope as the old $#@!ers in Congress die off or retire, younger people with more progressive and varied ideas, open minded views of the world, will fill their places. A generation of today, leading today. But hell, they'll probably be bought off too...
    the problem is that we have an indulging life here, this is still the most opportunist country in the world. you can do whatever you put your heart into. most of us are happy with where we are. i'm happy with my life. none of this affects me directly. but what i do understand is that it can be better, looking at other developed countries, it baffles me sometimes how we continue with this crap.

    the quality of life in some (probably most) other countries is more balanced and probably more healthy as well. as a developed nation, our focus should be about prevention of disease/illness and less work and more free time. that's not the case.

    a change is difficult because people here tend not to focus on other nations and see what they do and how they do it.

    my fear about the congress is that it doesn't matter if they're old or whatever, it's the people who influence them and put them in power are the issue. and how do we change that situation?

    if there was a way to put people up there that were transparent, it would help. what also would be important is to see their motives. because we can't prevent someone corrupt from being elected, that would always be possible...the idea is to see what they're doing there.

    that problem is generally fixed by having two extreme parties. demos and repubs at the moment. so demos see obama being about freedom and equality, which is true but they ignore his faults where he is trying to shove ACA down our throats.

    so repubs cry out and say, 'why do you support this ideology?' demos think that repubs are idiots/racists and don't get the good things president is trying to do. then the repubs get a president that is war mongering but also brings balance back to the economy, cuts spendings, puts out more strict laws so people don't swindle the govt. etc. (whatever republicans do) and demos cry out and say the same thing...and repubs think that demos are retards/PC who do not see the good that president is doing.

    which is why they're just different sides of the same coin. we are being duped by these parties. we need more moderates...that actually care about the country and its people.

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  20. #5218
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    I agree with that very last part of Sufi's post: we need more moderates. We need more conservative liberals and more liberal conservatives. I learned that in American Government and I stand by that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I agree with that very last part of Sufi's post: we need more moderates. We need more conservative liberals and more liberal conservatives. I learned that in American Government and I stand by that.
    We do have those. They just put on a act for the big money donors and play to their base. For example, a senator will speak out against gay marriage in public but have gay family members and support them behind closed doors. They pretend to be something they're not. That's one of the reasons why Romney lost. Privately, he was one person, and publicly he pretended to be someone else . If you noticed, he played to whatever crowed he faced. In the south he was extremely conservative and play to the extremists, then he would magically become moderate again the following week. People see right through that stuff. Especially the younger voters.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    insurance is a fraud and keeps people poor.
    I think this statement may have been a bit broad. Insurance has many great uses that are very beneficial, but it is also used in some ways that I believe end up being counter productive. From a business standpoint, liability insurance helps grease the wheels of commerce, it helps business owners finance risk which in turn helps push the economy forward.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


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    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    I think this statement may have been a bit broad. Insurance has many great uses that are very beneficial, but it is also used in some ways that I believe end up being counter productive. From a business standpoint, liability insurance helps grease the wheels of commerce, it helps business owners finance risk which in turn helps push the economy forward.
    oh i agree, at the same time, it also can be a negative thing, such as a driver not caring about accident because he/she has full coverage (and also an idiot) or a person not caring about what they eat or do...because they have full medical/dental coverage.

    overall, it's like going to the casino, the casino always wins. some of us can win from it but overall, they will always win. that's how they make money.

    my last (and dumb) car accident was back in 2005 and i've never had full coverage on my cars. i still think it's a waste of money. i'm extremely careful and in fact, i've saved other people from running into me.

    i pay 250 for two cars every 6 months, that's still a waste of my money. i don't need coverage. i might think about it when i get an audi though but actually nahhhh lol. the amount i'll save by not having full coverage will cover any cost i might need for an accident every couple of years which would be my fault...that is if i ever have another one.

    i grew up in a country where we didn't have concept of insurance and i like that better. in addition, we went to our local clinic more often than we do here because it was so damn cheap and we're not even talking about low-cost clinics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    oh i agree, at the same time, it also can be a negative thing, such as a driver not caring about accident because he/she has full coverage (and also an idiot) or a person not caring about what they eat or do...because they have full medical/dental coverage.
    No doubt about it. I for one do not insure the value of my car, only the liability I assume by getting behind the wheel. If I were driving a very expensive car, I may choose to cover that, but I'm not all that concerned about my limited exposure to damage of my property (IE- the car).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    overall, it's like going to the casino, the casino always wins. some of us can win from it but overall, they will always win. that's how they make money.
    Oddly enough, there are quite a few insurance companies that collect less premium than their expenses/claims combined. They try to bridge that delta by investing premiums wisely, but it doesn't always work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    my last (and dumb) car accident was back in 2005 and i've never had full coverage on my cars. i still think it's a waste of money. i'm extremely careful and in fact, i've saved other people from running into me.
    Damage to my property is not what concerns me either, my liability which is unknown until the time of an accident is what concerns me and what I insure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    i pay 250 for two cars every 6 months, that's still a waste of my money. i don't need coverage. i might think about it when i get an audi though but actually nahhhh lol. the amount i'll save by not having full coverage will cover any cost i might need for an accident every couple of years which would be my fault...that is if i ever have another one.
    Due to the litigious nature of our society I would have to say liability insurance is worth every penny. Wait until you are in a court room facing a $250K or better judgement against you because you got into an at fault accident.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    i grew up in a country where we didn't have concept of insurance and i like that better. in addition, we went to our local clinic more often than we do here because it was so damn cheap and we're not even talking about low-cost clinics.
    It all depends on the laws in that country. In this country, where you could be sued at the drop of a hat for an unknown amount due to an honest mistake (see: civil lawsuit), insurance is almost a necessity. If the laws here were setup differently and the environment were less litigious, I would probably agree with you.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


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  26. #5223
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    Meanwhile, while people were looking the other way:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...n-choke-point/

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ines/?page=all

    Some of the targeted industries:

    Some merchant categories that have been associated with high-risk activity include, but are not limited to:

    Ammunition Sales
    Cable Box De-scramblers
    Coin Dealers
    Credit Card Schemes
    Credit Repair Services
    Dating Services
    Debt Consolidation Scams
    Drug Paraphernalia
    Escort Services
    Firearms Sales
    Fireworks Sales
    Get Rich Products
    Government Grants
    Home-Based Charities
    Life-Time Guarantees



    Life-Time Memberships
    Lottery Sales
    Mailing Lists/Personal Info
    Money Transfer Networks
    On-line Gambling
    PayDay Loans
    Pharmaceutical Sales
    Ponzi Schemes
    Pornography
    Pyramid-Type Sales
    Racist Materials
    Surveillance Equipment
    Telemarketing
    Tobacco Sales
    Travel Clubs
    Edit: Post 7870




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    big data/brother at work.

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    what does "executive action" mean? what will that mean for immigration?

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