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  1. #5226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    what does "executive action" mean? what will that mean for immigration?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order

    It mean obama will do what he can to "improve" things as he sees fit within the scope of the executive order.

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    damnit, i can google myself too lol. i mean, in one sentence, simple words.

    i assume that this means he can just override everything? well if he can then why does he even care to work with the repubs when he can just override everything?

    i'm trying to understand what affect this would have on the two sides and what exactly does this mean for immigration...cause that's what he's going ot make the order on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    damnit, i can google myself too lol. i mean, in one sentence, simple words.

    i assume that this means he can just override everything? well if he can then why does he even care to work with the repubs when he can just override everything?

    i'm trying to understand what affect this would have on the two sides and what exactly does this mean for immigration...cause that's what he's going ot make the order on.
    It's the illusion of trying to work across the isle that he is trying to pass off. But no. He cannot override everything. He would like to think he can but he can't. On second thought though, maybe he can. After all, congress has abdicated almost all responsibility for anything and everything and might as well not even exist.

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    well it's all a play. they act like they're fighting against Obama but they're really just participating in a play. the things Obama wants to get done will be done. the govt. shutdown was drama too. it was to show that they really really are trying so very hard but we all knew how stupid that was. all it made people think of was to stop the shutdown and accept ACA.

    i think of all of it as a play, they all know what's going to happen, they're performing so they can get to the end of it. if they didn't do it, people would rise up themselves and fix it themselves, they don't want that to happen, they want to show the struggle, that things are happening.

    and then a new president comes and a new play begins.

    i'm trying to figure out how immigration benefits...is it just cheap labor? while they pay them with govt. services (which we pay for).

    you guys all know that they can fix immigration, they just don't want to. they can make it so govt. services aren't abused but then why would any immigrant want to stay here and get paid 2x less?

    in the end, we're paying for all of that from our pockets and the people that win are the ones who are hiring these immigrants.

  5. #5230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    damnit, i can google myself too lol. i mean, in one sentence, simple words.

    i assume that this means he can just override everything? well if he can then why does he even care to work with the repubs when he can just override everything?

    i'm trying to understand what affect this would have on the two sides and what exactly does this mean for immigration...cause that's what he's going ot make the order on.
    You can look into executive order like a CEO ordering his employees to do something. Like the President, a CEO can't just give out an illegal order like kill someone, rob, etc. It has to be an order within the law, so yeah, the courts have jurisdiction on whether an executive order is legal or constitutional.

    I'm not sure of the details on Obama's executive order on immigration. He and Republicans in Congress can't agree on anything so he is trying to use his limited powers to make policy changes.....or something. This kind of thing isn't new.
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  6. #5231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    You can look into executive order like a CEO ordering his employees to do something. Like the President, a CEO can't just give out an illegal order like kill someone, rob, etc. It has to be an order within the law, so yeah, the courts have jurisdiction on whether an executive order is legal or constitutional.

    I'm not sure of the details on Obama's executive order on immigration. He and Republicans in Congress can't agree on anything so he is trying to use his limited powers to make policy changes.....or something. This kind of thing isn't new.
    oh i remember Bush doing something like this when the Iraq war started. i think it was the same thing. or similar. i'm really interested in what Obama's trying to achieve.

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    http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/03/combin...lth-world.html

    What do you guys think of the wealth distribution in America, your own nation, and the world at large?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/03/combin...lth-world.html

    What do you guys think of the wealth distribution in America, your own nation, and the world at large?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/03/combin...lth-world.html

    What do you guys think of the wealth distribution in America, your own nation, and the world at large?
    I definitely believe we and the world need to spread the wealth more. We need to make it easier for lower socioeconomic classes to rise to the top and not make it harder for people's families to remain wealthy. If your mom and dad are doctors, then the world, not just the U.S., needs to not make it difficult for YOU to become a doctor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I definitely believe we and the world need to spread the wealth more. We need to make it easier for lower socioeconomic classes to rise to the top and not make it harder for people's families to remain wealthy. If your mom and dad are doctors, then the world, not just the U.S., needs to not make it difficult for YOU to become a doctor.
    no, no, no, no. you will never get that view across anyone and have them agree with it. your approach is completely wrong and your logic makes no sense.

    we should not spread the wealth, we should make sure that the wealth isn't being taken unethically/illegally...or make laws to make it illegal. which will never happen but that's the issue.

    yes, if you mean, compensation for all the times the wealthy have manipulated/exploited the poor? yes, they owe that money as a fine. they don't need to spread it if they don't deserve to pay the fine...which in most cases they would.

    and the last comment, i don't understand why you want to do that. if two people are doctors, why should it be difficult for their child to become one as well?

    EDIT: nvm, read your last comment wrong, too many "not"s lol.

  11. #5236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    no, no, no, no. you will never get that view across anyone and have them agree with it. your approach is completely wrong and your logic makes no sense.
    Excuse me? Do you mind showing me an example of a "right" approach and how does my logic make no sense? I thought logic was sense?

    we should not spread the wealth, we should make sure that the wealth isn't being taken unethically/illegally...or make laws to make it illegal. which will never happen but that's the issue.
    Make what illegal? What are you talking?

    yes, if you mean, compensation for all the times the wealthy have manipulated/exploited the poor? yes, they owe that money as a fine. they don't need to spread it if they don't deserve to pay the fine...which in most cases they would.
    What does this mean?

    and the last comment, i don't understand why you want to do that. if two people are doctors, why should it be difficult for their child to become one as well?
    Because their federal aid EFC is too high.

    EDIT: nvm, read your last comment wrong, too many "not"s lol.
    One "not" is too many, lol.
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  12. #5237
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    Excuse me? Do you mind showing me an example of a "right" approach and how does my logic make no sense? I thought logic was sense?
    i just did right after.

    what i'm talking about is that the way the laws in this country have been modified in the recent decades or i should say century(ies) is that it lets the corporations/wealthy take advantage of the poor.

    instead of spreading that wealth, just don't take it in an unethical way. i say unethical because it's not "illegal" because there are no laws against it because they would (they = wealthy/corporates/lobbyists) would not allow the laws to go through that limit their exploitations.

    so while i agree with your overall statement, you have to present it correctly. i don't think rich people should give away their wealth to the poor...that without a context is wrong. if the rich got there without exploitation (which i would have a hard time believing but it can happen), then they should not spread their wealth unless they wanted to and it should be in their right to keep their wealth just like anyone else.

    i hope that was more clear.

  13. #5238
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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...bushs-mistake/

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...crisis-katrina

    Its good to see Obama get some $#@! for his avoidance of going to the border using the exact same excuse Bush gave for not visiting New Orleans after Katrina. What was mocked when Bush did, was claimed as a smart move by democrats when Obama did it.

    Also, I never liked how it take taxpayers money for him to fly from place to place, so he is at a democratic fundraiser...using taxpayers money. :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    what i'm talking about is that the way the laws in this country have been modified in the recent decades or i should say century(ies) is that it lets the corporations/wealthy take advantage of the poor.
    That and the unintelligent spending of tax dollars are the crux of our failing economy. Corporations run the Government and they take advantage of their influence to benefit themselves, but this naturally becomes disadvantageous to the lower classes. The rich are running off with the money, and what money the poor and middle class still posses that goes to taxes is mismanaged or even directly wasted.

    We really need to prioritize and rework the system so we can invest back in our society and not the pockets of billionaires and war contracts. Unfortunately, this will not be possible until the American people stand up and demand for what they've earned and the rights they deserve. By the time America realizes it's doom it may be too late.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kwes View Post
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...bushs-mistake/

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...crisis-katrina

    Its good to see Obama get some $#@! for his avoidance of going to the border using the exact same excuse Bush gave for not visiting New Orleans after Katrina. What was mocked when Bush did, was claimed as a smart move by democrats when Obama did it.
    It’s shocking that the president would avoid visiting ground zero of what essentially constitutes an invasion of America. What does an invasion look like, if not this? Do the invaders have to be of a certain age?
    Wow, talking about exaggerated demonizing. That's not unbecoming.

    Anyway, this seems like political manipulation and grasping at straws. Katrina was natural disaster that destroyed much of the urban city and displaced nearly half a million people, killed thousands, and caused 95-125 billion dollars in damage. It's not really the same as a continuous (note: non-singular and epidemic) happening that calls for initial action. The writers here are attempting to equate two different circumstances that are only somewhat similar in structure but not weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    Wow, talking about exaggerated demonizing. That's not unbecoming.

    Anyway, this seems like political manipulation and grasping at straws. Katrina was natural disaster that destroyed much of the urban city and displaced nearly half a million people, killed thousands, and caused 95-125 billion dollars in damage. It's not really the same as a continuous (note: non-singular and epidemic) happening that calls for initial action. The writers here are attempting to equate two different circumstances that are only somewhat similar in structure but not weight.
    That response is not surprising, but the fact is. Bush visiting Katrina would have taken away precious resources from relief, just to cater to him. Obama visiting the border wouldn't take resources away, as there isn't much going on down there. At one point, he was less then 50 miles from the border, and he chose to go to a bar, and play pool like hes still campaigning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwes View Post
    Obama visiting the border wouldn't take resources away, as there isn't much going on down there.
    I have to wonder if this is why he didn't go down there, then.

    My point is that it's not a large call for action like Katrina was -- the article writers are making a poor comparison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    I have to wonder if this is why he didn't go down there, then.

    My point is that it's not a large call for action like Katrina was -- the article writers are making a poor comparison.
    Poor wording on my part. There is a lot of stuff going on down there, with hundreds walking across the border every day. National security is pretty much being ignored as it continues. I meant, nothing is going on as Obama would rather drink in a bar, or go to charity then actually run the country.

    No its not. But its still a cheap excuse in order to avoid going. If Obama went down there, it would be because its a problem. And if he officially declares that its a problem, he'd have to do something, and that might cut into his vacation and golf time...smh
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  18. #5243
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    Yeah, of course. He needs to do his duties and take less vacation time.

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    the more i learn about the immigration problem, the more i realize that the system is broken on purpose. it's because the poorer latinos that come here are being exploited (given less than minimum under the table) and while it may still be better than what their country provides them, it's still not sustainable. so they rely on govt. services and those services are being given without any questions...because the people pay for them. they could easily have more filters to go through but they won't because this benefits the rich, for the exploitation and people instead of fixing the system, go after the exploited.

    the govt. stays out of the way (for the most part) and the rich get their share. it's a win win situation. let the people fight it over while they reap all the benefits.

    and well, you can't argue that it is better in the end once those (likely uneducated) people have kids and end up being educated and likely doing better than the average kids.

    i'm not saying, let's stop giving them help that they "need", i'm saying, let's start paying them what they deserve so they don't need to take advantage of the system. something's gotta give in the end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    the more i learn about the immigration problem, the more i realize that the system is broken on purpose. it's because the poorer latinos that come here are being exploited (given less than minimum under the table) and while it may still be better than what their country provides them, it's still not sustainable. so they rely on govt. services and those services are being given without any questions...because the people pay for them. they could easily have more filters to go through but they won't because this benefits the rich, for the exploitation and people instead of fixing the system, go after the exploited.
    You can write a hell of a paper paper on this subject. It's not just immigrants suffering, it's born-Americans too. Wal-Mart for example, our largest employer, is the Welfare Queen, which underpays so much that many of it's employees have to rely on welfare of some kind to survive. Yet Wal-Mart makes numerous billions a year but refuses to pay even a couple of dollars more. We're aiding companies like that with tax breaks and leveraging social programs onto their workers as a pay supplement. :/

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  22. #5246
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    The big supermarkets prefer to hire more part time staff instead of giving the original staff overtime because its cheaper to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    The big supermarkets prefer to hire more part time staff instead of giving the original staff overtime because its cheaper to do so.
    I think it's important to look beyond the immediate consequences. The money saved by the business could:

    - Sit in a bank account, allowing a bank to lend more money to new businesses.
    - Fund the expansion of the business, creating more jobs.
    - Increase the efficiency of the business, leading to cheaper prices for customers and/or more money to reinvest.

    This is why I think businesses should be left alone as much as reasonably possible. There are consequences for enforcing policies on businesses that are not immediately apparent; consequences that betray the original intent of 'helping' employees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valefor View Post
    I think it's important to look beyond the immediate consequences. The money saved by the business could:

    - Sit in a bank account, allowing a bank to lend more money to new businesses.
    - Fund the expansion of the business, creating more jobs.
    - Increase the efficiency of the business, leading to cheaper prices for customers and/or more money to reinvest.

    This is why I think businesses should be left alone as much as reasonably possible. There are consequences for enforcing policies on businesses that are not immediately apparent; consequences that betray the original intent of 'helping' employees.
    maybe smaller businesses, what you're speaking about otherwise is just not happening in the states. it's not trickling back into the economy.

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    I don't see how the benefit of big business for the sake of big business that operates for the sake of big business is more important than paying a living wage to its employees who can then turn around and put back into the economy. That's how you get stimulation -- it's all about the flow of cash. You earn it then spend it, then you earn again. That's how it remains valuable. It loses it's value when money becomes complacently absent from the buying market because the businesses and banks have absorbed it.

    If you leave businesses alone they will do whatever is in their power to maximize their profits at the burden of all others. History has shown this time and time again and we can see it anywhere we look today. It is a fact of the economic landscape. Businesses and banks are not a crux of civilization, it is merely a part of it, and it needs to play it's part as much as anyone else in society.

    Big Business and large monopolized industries are a new figure in the history of the world. We need to be extremely careful of the power we allow them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    maybe smaller businesses, what you're speaking about otherwise is just not happening in the states. it's not trickling back into the economy.
    By their nature, the benefits I listed would not be clearly visible, unlike a company's employment rate and remuneration packages. Because of this, it can't really be stated that 'it's not happening'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    I don't see how the benefit of big business for the sake of big business that operates for the sake of big business is more important than paying a living wage to its employees who can then turn around and put back into the economy. That's how you get stimulation -- it's all about the flow of cash. You earn it then spend it, then you earn again. That's how it remains valuable. It loses it's value when money becomes complacently absent from the buying market because the businesses and banks have absorbed it.

    If you leave businesses alone they will do whatever is in their power to maximize their profits at the burden of all others. History has shown this time and time again and we can see it anywhere we look today. It is a fact of the economic landscape. Businesses and banks are not a crux of civilization, it is merely a part of it, and it needs to play it's part as much as anyone else in society.

    Big Business and large monopolized industries are a new figure in the history of the world. We need to be extremely careful of the power we allow them.
    Wages are based on supply and demand. You can artificially inflate the worth of one's labour by paying a 'living wage', but that has consequences. Increased wages are a cost to the business, that in turn can lead to unemployment, and/or higher prices of products to customers. When one receives a pay rise, but has to pay more for a product, they may have had a wage increase but their real wage has not increased.

    I'd be interested to see the wages paid by the big corporations, in contrast to small businesses.

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