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  1. #5276
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    They would go as low or as high as the market dictates. That's why when the economy was doing great, it created a labor shortage. It became a "worker's market". Workers were able to demand higher wages because the companies were desperate for workers and had to compete with other companies for them. We had fast food places that were offering $12-$15 STARTING pay and a hire bonus because they couldn't find enough people to work for them at the wages they were offering before.

    But when the market goes the other way, then it's a "employer's market" and the wages go lower based on a worker SURPLUS in the market. That's the yin and yang of a free market.

    As for businesses aren't people? Of course they are. They need people with capital to start them and people to run them. They aren't owned or run by themselves. They wouldn't exist without people behind them.

    Anything detrimental you do to a business hurts PEOPLE. Say you call for a boycott of a corporation that makes cars. The person or persons who own the company are hurt. Their workers are then hurt if they are laid off or hours reduced. Then OTHER companies are hurt because you reduce your buying of parts from them...and THEIR owners are hurt and their workers are hurt.

    So a company is a person by extension of the fact that anything beneficial or detrimental that happens to it DIRECTLY affects a person or persons associated with it.

    When I was a kid, I used to shoplift videogames from Sears from time to time. I had been taught in public school the liberal mindset that corporations were faceless entities that I should not sympathize or care about. They were to be demonized at every chance. I was always told they are "greedy".

    So because of this..... I had no problems with my conscience with stealing from a big company like Sears cuz the company can "afford" to take the loss. That they are so greedy that they can handle losing product at my hands. I was taught the mindset that as long as I wasn't stealing from a person (personal), but instead stealing from a rich faceless entity (non-personal)... that it's not so bad. The mindset that it's okay that Robin Hood is a thief, as long as he's stealing from rich people and handing it to poor people. The ol' "the end justifies the means" defense.

    The reality is that if everybody decides to steal from Sears, the loss is gonna hit a PERSON.... be it through loss to shareholders, layoffs, increased prices to the public to cover losses or taxpayers who have to cover the loss due to a tax write off.

    So if a company could own and run itself and involved no employees..... maybe I wouldn't give it the rights of a person. But as long as it is owned by a person and has persons working for it.... I consider it a person by proxy. Because what you do to a company affects a person at the end of the day.
    Corporations aren't people though. A corporation cannot run itself; it doesn't breath; it doesn't bleed blood; and it can't die or grow without a real live person. Just because it requires people, it doesn't mean it's people. Only the Supreme Court has ever ruled that corporations are "people" and they only ruled as such under admiralty law and in line with it. This is because it was giving power to the biggest corporation of them all; the corporation of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. (the all caps denotes this country's corporate status)

  2. #5277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    Corporations aren't people though. A corporation cannot run itself; it doesn't breath; it doesn't bleed blood; and it can't die or grow without a real live person. Just because it requires people, it doesn't mean it's people. Only the Supreme Court has ever ruled that corporations are "people" and they only ruled as such under admiralty law and in line with it. This is because it was giving power to the biggest corporation of them all; the corporation of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. (the all caps denotes this country's corporate status)
    I didn't mean literally a person. It is a representation of a person or persons in the business world. When people say they hate Microsoft, they are really attacking those that own and run it. So while it isn't technically a person, it effectively is a person cuz anything good or bad that happens to it affects a person. That's why I think it should be given the majority of rights a person has. Cuz treating it differently than people is treating it's owners differently than people.

  3. #5278
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    Kinda disappointed no Americans here have brought up the blatant police brutality and overstepping of power going on in Ferguson right now.

    I don't know how anyone can deny this country is becoming a police state. It's scary.

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    Apparently it means the Pentagon and Department of Homeland Security equip even the tiniest rural police departments with massive military vehicles, body armor and grenade launchers. The equipment is surplus from the long wars we fought in Iraq and Afghanistan.



    To a hammer, everything resembles a nail. SWAT (Special Weapons and Tactics) teams were once used only in emergencies such as riots or robberies where hostages were taken. But today there are more than 50,000 "no-knock raids" a year.
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/...ntcmp=trending

    americans don't realize it yet, but the signs have been out there for years. btw, all american police dept. are subject to isreali military training (they actually go there to get trained), apparently isrealis are great at making the local population more submissive.

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    The police are becoming militarized to fight the American people. The Government views the poor and middle class as enemies to the state because we defy their self-centered interests. The militancy industrial complex set us on this path decades ago, and 9/11 secured the death of democracy and human rights in this country. It will only become worse as the Government realizes it can get away with more and more.

    I've contemplated securing citizenship in another country so I can leave when things here begin falling apart. I know it's only as matter of time.

  6. #5281
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    i've always thought that i would migrate to Canada if anything ever went down. but i bet i could easily go to india if i wanted to.



    “The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.” - Adolf Hitler

  7. #5282
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    Canada, Germany, or Scotland is where I would move to. Canada is the most practical, since it's basically America except not crazy. Germany has a great economy though and I like how the Government is actually component. Scotland seems chill.

  8. #5283
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    unfortunately sooner or later all of the bigger economies are going to have similar controlling aspects. that's why somewhere like scotland would be probably a better idea. india to me would make sense because i'm already familiar with 99% of the culture and speak 80% of the people's language there.

  9. #5284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/...ntcmp=trending

    americans don't realize it yet, but the signs have been out there for years. btw, all american police dept. are subject to isreali military training (they actually go there to get trained), apparently isrealis are great at making the local population more submissive.
    All American police go to Israel to get trained?
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


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    Civil Forfeiture enables the police to confiscate your house or other possessions without having to convict you of a crime.


  11. #5286
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    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    All American police go to Israel to get trained?
    all american police depts are subject to. meaning, anyone can get training. i believe about 1500 departments already have had training. which likely means their superiors.

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    Looks like the ebb and flow of US politics is as strong as ever with the Republicans taking the Senate.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


  13. #5288
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    cyclical... 8 years on 8 years off barring a "change" event...

    Hillary could make it short lived...

    Weir map this year... bunch of southern states and a couple purple states... outcome could have been projected in 2000 lol

    By Theft
    I am stunned that some people appear to love their Playstation(1,2,3) or Xbox(360) more than I love the Denver Broncos.
    Trust me, it's sad

  14. #5289
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    I didn't even vote this time. I wasn't about to hold my nose and pick the shiniest of turds. At this point, if you are an American and you voted for anyone who is established as an "R", "D" or "I", you are a part of the problem.

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  16. #5290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel View Post
    I didn't even vote this time. I wasn't about to hold my nose and pick the shiniest of turds. At this point, if you are an American and you voted for anyone who is established as an "R", "D" or "I", you are a part of the problem.
    i used to feel bad that i never cared to vote before...now i won't vote on purpose until we have a party that is not affiliated with a powerful corporation or entity.

    now i almost think as if we get brainwashed when our teachers tell us to vote...and how people are expected to frown upon those that don't vote...because so many lives were lost for ust o have this privilege. i think so many lives were manipulated for them to control us more like.

  17. #5291
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    I didn't vote for anyone since there isn't one person I liked for running for state representative or whatever else. Everything is so out of whack. Also, people say, you have the freedom to vote so just vote anyway. The truth is, some countries force you to vote and in American you have the right not to vote, which means you won't go to jail or anything. In that case, if I don't like anyone running, I won't vote. The picks this time are awful, the people running for everything right now are just horrible. I would have to say at this point, the pickings for governor, senators, representatives (in any state), etc et, it's all horrible and I think it was purposely done at this point because there are no good picks. It's almost as if there is a monopoly on the worse people to run for anything at this point.
    PSN ID: Intense_Peanut

  18. #5292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoggy View Post
    I didn't vote for anyone since there isn't one person I liked for running for state representative or whatever else. Everything is so out of whack. Also, people say, you have the freedom to vote so just vote anyway. The truth is, some countries force you to vote and in American you have the right not to vote, which means you won't go to jail or anything. In that case, if I don't like anyone running, I won't vote. The picks this time are awful, the people running for everything right now are just horrible. I would have to say at this point, the pickings for governor, senators, representatives (in any state), etc et, it's all horrible and I think it was purposely done at this point because there are no good picks. It's almost as if there is a monopoly on the worse people to run for anything at this point.
    damn really? i did not know that, you mean like North Korea or China? speaking of forcing vote. oh wait, they wouldn't have voting there anyway lol. i'm curious which countries do that.

  19. #5293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel View Post
    I didn't even vote this time. I wasn't about to hold my nose and pick the shiniest of turds. At this point, if you are an American and you voted for anyone who is established as an "R", "D" or "I", you are a part of the problem.
    My philosophy is to vote for the individual and his or her track record vs the party tag in front of their name. To say there isn't a single candidate labeled "R", "D", or "I" that's worth voting so you simply vote for anyone in any other party is not the best approach IMO.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


  20. #5294
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    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    My philosophy is to vote for the individual and his or her track record vs the party tag in front of their name.
    there is no "individual" in these ballots. that's the problem.

  21. #5295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    there is no "individual" in these ballots. that's the problem.
    Sure there are if you put the time in to find them.

    One thing is certain, if you don't vote no one will care and it won't affect anything. Hell, go out and write in your candidates if nothing else.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


  22. #5296
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    I don't know man. if there are, they will never be in power. you should know this by now. there is no real ballot. it's a lie.

  23. #5297
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    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    My philosophy is to vote for the individual and his or her track record vs the party tag in front of their name. To say there isn't a single candidate labeled "R", "D", or "I" that's worth voting so you simply vote for anyone in any other party is not the best approach IMO.
    Considering that the Republicans and Democrats make all the election rules and criteria needed to be a candidate and considering that these rules are subject to change at the drop of a hat whenever someone threatens their electoral hegemony, it would not be prudent to even vote for whoever they trot out. Moreover, playing by their rules ensures that they win every time. I choose not to play their game when the game is rigged. The problem is, if you're not pre-approved by the establishment, you don't get the chance to go beyond a certain point. You either tow the line or you get shut out.

    For whatever it's worth, the only real change that will ever be effected, will be at the barrel of a gun. When lives and livelihoods are at stake, that when real change happens... and not a moment sooner.

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  25. #5298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel View Post
    Considering that the Republicans and Democrats make all the election rules and criteria needed to be a candidate and considering that these rules are subject to change at the drop of a hat whenever someone threatens their electoral hegemony, it would not be prudent to even vote for whoever they trot out. Moreover, playing by their rules ensures that they win every time. I choose not to play their game when the game is rigged. The problem is, if you're not pre-approved by the establishment, you don't get the chance to go beyond a certain point. You either tow the line or you get shut out.

    For whatever it's worth, the only real change that will ever be effected, will be at the barrel of a gun. When lives and livelihoods are at stake, that when real change happens... and not a moment sooner.
    i'm not one for advocate for violence but i completely agree with you. at the same time, there is already (has been for decades and planned for centuries) violence being caused towards americans without weapons so it's not like it's not already happening.

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    The way I see it if I do not vote then I allowed the person or party in by not voting. At least if I voted I tried to do something about it.

  27. #5300
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    The way I see it if I do not vote then I allowed the person or party in by not voting. At least if I voted I tried to do something about it.
    your scenario assumes that there's a legitimate side in the race.

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