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  1. #826
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    you don't understand it, yet you said there are bad teachers which I agree with, they're obviously out there. bravo, you had good parents, however you still can't hide behind the "it's the parents fault" kids are in school about as long as the parents are at work. The school is at fault and I will always pin it on the school unless I see otherwise with some kid out there. Yes, there are horrible parents in this world, that can't be argued but tell me this, what has the department of education improved on because that was the real debate here?

    do you know why I will always pin this on the school? because it's obvious that the parents are not with the child while they are in school man. hehe
    Last edited by Bigdoggy; 11-24-2011 at 01:25.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I have done my research, and no you are not on par. You do joint operations but your training is nowhere near as arduous or specialized. You serve as support most of the time, like the operations in Mogadishu to Delta.
    You are confusing the training we have to go through to become Rangers with the training we do while being a Ranger. The 2 months of Ranger school is only a fraction of what we train to do. Now, we don't go through stuff like BUDS training like the Seals(for obvious reasons) but some of us have been through things like SERE, sniper school. We also train in commando tactics just like Deltas and Seals.

    You obviously haven't done very good research. Go do research on 75th Ranger Regiment or JSOF and you will see exactly what i'm saying.



    Uh Substance I know that the Delta guys recruit from the Rangers and the GreenBeret. You just validated what I've been saying. You're selected from a group below them. They're ABOVE you in terms of skill and capability as a group.
    Your argument is that Rangers aren't Special Forces and you are wrong about that. Of course they are gonna select below them because they are the top of the chain. We are on par with them when it come to certain things. The differences varies depending on the type of Unit you are assigned too.

    The SEALs will recruit from the Marines too. What does that say?
    Not from regular Marine unites. They recruit from Force Recon Marines which are also spec ops. Navy and marines are two different branches.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 11-24-2011 at 01:35.

  3. #828
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    Honestly it just comes across as you trying to bang your own drum man. I didn't say you guys couldn't take specialized schools like the SF can, and I'm sure many do.

    But as a group you're not on the same level and I will pretty much never believe otherwise until a SEAL\Delta comes up to me and says "No, they're on our level."


    @Daywalker

    Why? Because he hates on Obama? Read his stuff. He attacks the Republicans routinely and places most of the government spending blame at their feet. He even quoted data you presented about how Clinton slashed government while Bush Jr raised it. He hates Bush too, for that matter.

    Now granted, he has a special pool of ire to cast upon Obama- but for good reason. The man is a twit at best.

    He just comes down really hard on people he feels deserve it- those that grab his attention at the time of posting. Conservatives: Yep, Liberals:Yep. Parties don't matter. He's gone on the record (according to wiki) as being a "Republican" but several times throughout his blogs he has referred to himself as a "Democrat". So I'm completely unaware of what his actual party affiliation is.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 11-24-2011 at 01:31.


  4. #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoggy View Post
    you don't understand it, yet you said there are bad teachers which I agree with, they're obviously out there. bravo, you had good parents, however you still can't hide behind the "it's the parents fault" kids are in school about as long as the parents are at work. The school is at fault and I will always pin it on the school unless I see otherwise with some kid out there. Yes, there are horrible parents in this world, that can't be argued but tell me this, what has the department of education improved on because that was the real debate here?
    then you're already part of the problem.

    yes kids are in school all day and they get...6?... subjects 50 minutes at a time.
    now I believe in my district.... teachers are required to be there an hr before and after first and last bell...

    after that, its on you. period.

    teachers have 6x30= 180 students on their plate. Its unrealistic to think you don't bare a more than equal share of your childs education.

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  5. #830
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    Substance1

    "CAG (Delta) recruits from any MOS in the US Army, they don't pick specific people or have some black file of names ready to choose from. They hold briefings and have tryouts for a reason. One doesn't have to be SF or a Ranger to try out. Any young male in the Army knows this much.
    For the question. I highly suggest you focus on your 25m target. "I am thinking of being a tier 1" doesn't make any sense. Join a branch of service .. get through BMT and your job training and learn that first. All tier 1 assets are highly experienced operators, so you better be willing to play the regular games first and be very good at them.

    ~USAF PJ"

    No idea if this is true or not. Just something I found.

    Another PJ said this:

    "Tier One operators are members on Delta, DEVGRU (SEAL Team 6), and 24th Special Tactics"

    He also contradicted the above statement given by another alleged PJ. Saying they typically only pick from other tiered units.


    Anyways you get my point. Your argument that they "select from Rangers" doesn't really mean anything at all. It just means that they're more picky and Rangers are a cut above the rest. I never said you guys were unskilled jarhead cannon fodder that are thrown at the enemy. I just said you were not on the same level as the more renowned groups.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 11-24-2011 at 01:37.


  6. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    @Daywalker

    Why? Because he hates on Obama? Read his stuff. He attacks the Republicans routinely and places most of the government spending blame at their feet. He even quoted data you presented about how Clinton slashed government while Bush Jr raised it.
    Yeah I'm reading it... and yeah I saw that... hence the hack journalist option...

    reading quick while doing other stuff so maybe I missed some deetz but this passage pretty much sums up why I am skeptical:

    Valerie Jarrett led the charge resisting the push from Panetta to go after UBL[WHY]. Obama initially sided with Jarrett [WHY]. The White House spin that Obama had to persuade senior advisors to go after Osama is pure unadulterated bull$#@!. He was the one dragging ass.[WHY]
    seems to me if he were trying to paint a "truthy" picture... he would have gotten and provided these details... as it stand right now, he just comes off as a "nah-ah" agent...
    Last edited by DayWalker; 11-24-2011 at 01:39.

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  7. #832
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    Bigdoggy is right I'm going off on a tangent here. The point is\was that you being a Ranger has zero relevance on the overwhelming majority of political issues... Which is why it grates on a few nerves (like mine, Wes) that you constantly bring it up as if we should respect your opinion.... Just because you were a Ranger.

    Now in the Bin Laden case it does cast some useful information because I'm sure you have been involved in military operations\rubbed elbows with individuals who have been knee deep in these kinds of operations.. So it is good insight on why the military would divulge false information.

    Which I completely understand. I wouldn't want to broadcast the tactical information on how a strike went down on a big name target.. Especially not within the first few months of it happening.


    Edit: and I stand massively corrected. Just read that 70% of Delta Force operators were selected from the 75th Ranger Regiment- this is from the lips of General Dwayne Downing in front of Congress. So clearly that first quote was way off mark.

    Re-edit: I will admit there are two definitions of SF being used here. When most people (or atleast me) say the term "Special Forces" we usually refer to the T1-T2 groups. The ones that are 'legendary' so to speak- Green Beret, Delta, SOG, Seals/Team Six, (foreign) SAS, GRU, GSG9 etc.

    Yes, the Rangers are listed as 'special forces' you're definitely right. Technically you are correct and I gladly will admit that you blew me out of the water there.

    I still maintain, though, that you are not on parity with the upper tiers- yes, I realize that there is not some sort of arbitrary metric which determines your bad assery. Once you're in a highly trained unit you're already good (which the Rangers, and clearly the 75th in particular, are.), and the different 'elite' T2\T1 groups have different specializations. Which really holds true for all the military units and regiments.

    Having said this, though, they are typically held in higher esteem and are considered more 'elite'. Usually due to their exploits. Not knocking the Army regulars, Marines, Rangers or whatever. I'm just calling it how I see it.

    Also yes, I was referring to Force Recon when I made the Marine quip. Those guys are nothing to shake a stick at either. Atleast I'm fairly sure SEALS will recruit from them.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 11-24-2011 at 02:09.


  8. #833
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Substance1

    "CAG (Delta) recruits from any MOS in the US Army, they don't pick specific people or have some black file of names ready to choose from.
    I don't know everything about the delta selection process butt hat's not true and if you believe that you are naive. They don't recruit any MOS just like they don't recruit females. You have to have a certain background and be able to get a certain security clearance . MOS does play a role. They aren't gonna recruit a cook or a person who works in finance. So choosing from any MOS isn't very factual.


    They hold briefings and have tryouts for a reason. One doesn't have to be SF or a Ranger to try out. Any young male in the Army knows this much.


    Those briefings really have nothing to do with the selection process. Its just basic information. A Green Beret or Ranger has a much higher chance of being selected because they already have the skills they are looking for like expert marksmanship(something you absolutely must have) and having outstanding endurance (like completing a 40 or 50 mile march or hike). That's just for starters.


    Another PJ said this:

    "Tier One operators are members on Delta, DEVGRU (SEAL Team 6), and 24th Special Tactics"
    Tier one are also made up of what we call a Task Force which is a combination of Rangers, Seals, Deltas, and others spec op forces. For example, Task Force Ranger was made up of these exact forces in the battle in Mogadishu.

    He also contradicted the above statement given by another alleged PJ. Saying they typically only pick from other tiered units.
    75th Ranger regiment is a tier one(spec ops unit). You are confusing what tier one actually means. It basically means that forces are under the control of the JSOC. When Ranger Battalions deploy that's who they fall under. The JSOC.

    Anyways you get my point. Your argument that they "select from Rangers" doesn't really mean anything at all. It just means that they're more picky and Rangers are a cut above the rest. I never said you guys were unskilled jarhead cannon fodder that are thrown at the enemy. I just said you were not on the same level as the more renowned groups.
    No, you were saying that Rangers aren't Spec Ops which just isn't true. No we aren't on the same level when it comes to certain things but we are trained and skilled in some of the same things that they are. We can be dropped(or we can jump or fast rope) behind enemy lines just like they can. Like I said before we usually fight as a larger force but we definitely can be integrated wherever they need us because we fall under USSOCOM just like they do.

    For the record, I never brought up the thing about me being a Ranger. That was you. i was talking about Bin laden and the mission that got him.

    Re-edit: I will admit there are two definitions of SF being used here. When most people (or atleast me) say the term "Special Forces" we usually refer to the T1-T2 groups. The ones that are 'legendary' so to speak- Green Beret, Delta, SOG, Seals/Team Six, (foreign) SAS, GRU, GSG9 etc.
    Then you would be wrong because tier 2 groups are actually units like the 82nd Airborne and 101st Air Assault and other special skilled units.( could also be rangers too)
    Also members of those units can also have ranger qualified personnel.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 11-24-2011 at 03:18.

  9. #834
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    Obama Leaves God out of Thanksgiving Speech, Riles Critics


    http://news.yahoo.com/obama-leaves-g...173023786.html




    What did they expect from a muslim and the ant-christ?...lol
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 11-26-2011 at 03:39.

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    deletel

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    I thought Obama was a christian, that he went to a christian church and everything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I thought Obama was a christian, that he went to a christian church and everything.
    It was a sarcasm fail on Sub-Stances part, you are correct Obama did go to a church in Chicago that has a pretty hateful and racist pastor, Jeremiah Wright.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


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    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    It was a sarcasm fail on Sub-Stances part, you are correct Obama did go to a church in Chicago that has a pretty hateful and racist pastor, Jeremiah Wright.
    My bad then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I thought Obama was a christian, that he went to a christian church and everything.
    He is christian . I was just having a little fun there with people who think he is the devil...lol... Hide your bibles! The anti-christ is coming!...lol

    Looks like the final nail is in the coffin for Cain. He's going down just like I said he would. Now he is gonna bow out to avoid divorce, just like Palin did.
    Last edited by Steve; 11-29-2011 at 23:40.

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    Poor Mitt... He might be the front-runner right now, but I'm sure he's realized by now that his party isn't particularly pleased with him. He deserves it, though. It's not so much that he has changed his views; it happens, sometimes people have realizations and their viewpoints are suddenly changed. But it's the way he has handled it. The way he has handled it makes it clear that he's just trying to make everyone happy, and say whatever he needs to say to get the vote. And in the process, people are calling him out for it.

    As for Cain... What's there even left to say?
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    the new "not mitt" candidate is Newt. He's got way too many skeletons in his closet

    Somebody get me a doctor, I ain't feelin' ill ...But I ain't feelin' this at all...

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    Quote Originally Posted by btbam View Post
    the new "not mitt" candidate is Newt. He's got way too many skeletons in his closet
    Love or hate Newt, you have to give him that he's an intelligent guy. He might not have made all of the best decisions, nor is he necessarily the best guy for the job, but he's certainly an intelligent individual.

    I'm not quite sure that the US is ready for another older white guy as President, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchaffinOSX View Post
    Poor Mitt... He might be the front-runner right now, but I'm sure he's realized by now that his party isn't particularly pleased with him. He deserves it, though. It's not so much that he has changed his views; it happens, sometimes people have realizations and their viewpoints are suddenly changed. But it's the way he has handled it. The way he has handled it makes it clear that he's just trying to make everyone happy, and say whatever he needs to say to get the vote. And in the process, people are calling him out for it.

    As for Cain... What's there even left to say?
    Thats exactly why I have no respect for him (as a politician) and the same reason I believe he shouldn't be nominated by his party. I don't think he deserves sympathy either.

    Cain is a joke, plane and simple.

    I wish we could get rid of these parties that are influencing our elected political leaders, they do nothing but divide the nation. I wish candidates would run on their own merits and not worry about their party lines. $#@! two or three parties, how about no parties.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TwentyThree View Post
    Thats exactly why I have no respect for him (as a politician) and the same reason I believe he shouldn't be nominated by his party. I don't think he deserves sympathy either.

    Cain is a joke, plane and simple.

    I wish we could get rid of these parties that are influencing our elected political leaders, they do nothing but divide the nation. I wish candidates would run on their own merits and not worry about their party lines. $#@! two or three parties, how about no parties.
    The issue with no parties, although it would permit for more honest politicking, is simply that it would be too difficult to manage and maintain. Two parties permits certain individuals to get into the spotlight, and makes it easy for the American public to make their decisions on who should lead them. Let's be honest: If there were no parties, there would be many more people running for president every election. And the many Americans would simply pick the first individual on the list of the ballot had, say, ten to twenty people on it (or more).

    I don't mind the party system as much as I once did, as I think it's more important that we simply put an end to the tendency each party has to do whatever is necessary to get the other party out of office. And often times, people think that once one party prevails, things will actually get done. But the thing is, once a party prevails and takes control of the White House and Congress, there are still problems. Obama faced opposition from within his own party when trying to get some legislation passed. And by the time he was starting to come up with new ideas, he lost the House, and a good deal of the Senate. Now, once again, there's gridlock.

    The party system does need to be looked at again, but that is simply one issue of the many issues there are in American politics today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchaffinOSX View Post
    Love or hate Newt, you have to give him that he's an intelligent guy. He might not have made all of the best decisions, nor is he necessarily the best guy for the job, but he's certainly an intelligent individual.

    I'm not quite sure that the US is ready for another older white guy as President, though.
    Newt is very smart, and he was a history prof which i digg cus i'm history too, but the intelegent candidate doesn't always win. Case in point, John Kerry. Very smart guy, but managed to loose to bush despite Bush's crushing unpopularity even in 04, although 06 was the real downturn for him. I'd vote for Newt just cus half his answers in the debates are really sarcastic. He plays the grumpy ol' man really well lol. I'm just commenting, that he has a somewhat unscrupulous past, its gonna be hard to sell "family values" whatever the hell that means with him.

    Somebody get me a doctor, I ain't feelin' ill ...But I ain't feelin' this at all...

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    Quote Originally Posted by btbam View Post
    Newt is very smart, and he was a history prof which i digg cus i'm history too, but the intelegent candidate doesn't always win. Case in point, John Kerry. Very smart guy, but managed to loose to bush despite Bush's crushing unpopularity even in 04, although 06 was the real downturn for him. I'd vote for Newt just cus half his answers in the debates are really sarcastic. He plays the grumpy ol' man really well lol. I'm just commenting, that he has a somewhat unscrupulous past, its gonna be hard to sell "family values" whatever the hell that means with him.
    Chances are, for whatever reason, that Mitt will get the nominee. He might not be widely loved by his party, but he seems to be the one person who has maintained himself in the polls. Several people have rose and fallen, while Mitt has simply stayed in the same place.

    I highly doubt Mitt would beat Obama, but I think he's the best candidate insomuch that he hasn't fallen (nor risen).
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchaffinOSX View Post
    The issue with no parties, although it would permit for more honest politicking, is simply that it would be too difficult to manage and maintain. Two parties permits certain individuals to get into the spotlight, and makes it easy for the American public to make their decisions on who should lead them.
    Let's be honest: If there were no parties, there would be many more people running for president every election. And the many Americans would simply pick the first individual on the list of the ballot had, say, ten to twenty people on it (or more).
    Obviously there would be a system in place to keep order, I wasn't screaming for anarchy in our political/Election system lol. The spotlight shouldn't be an issue once you have the right amount of candidates, I'm sure there are plenty of media outlets who would sponsor debates ect.


    I don't mind the party system as much as I once did, as I think it's more important that we simply put an end to the tendency each party has to do whatever is necessary to get the other party out of office. And often times, people think that once one party prevails, things will actually get done. But the thing is, once a party prevails and takes control of the White House and Congress, there are still problems. Obama faced opposition from within his own party when trying to get some legislation passed. And by the time he was starting to come up with new ideas, he lost the House, and a good deal of the Senate. Now, once again, there's gridlock.

    The party system does need to be looked at again, but that is simply one issue of the many issues there are in American politics today.
    I lost hope for the party system a long time ago and doubt they will ever get their $#@! together. The only thing they do is provide enough material for Jon stewart to makes us laugh at the end of the day.
    Last edited by TwentyThree; 11-30-2011 at 00:51.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SchaffinOSX View Post
    Chances are, for whatever reason, that Mitt will get the nominee. He might not be widely loved by his party, but he seems to be the one person who has maintained himself in the polls. Several people have rose and fallen, while Mitt has simply stayed in the same place.

    I highly doubt Mitt would beat Obama, but I think he's the best candidate insomuch that he hasn't fallen (nor risen).
    mitt isn't conservative enough for the party, but he can pull more moderate republicans and maybe some libertarians, although Ron Paul would likely get there votes and i'm not certain they would shift to mitt if (when) paul doesn't get it.

    People are pretty dissatisfied with Obama right now. Let me summon my inner Cajun for a second "It's the economy stupid!" if jobs don't improve within a few months, Obama is gonna have a hell of a time regardless of teh candidate. Whoever convinces people they can improve the economy the best and not raise debt or taxes is gonna win. But all of it will just be politicking. If we really wanted to solve the debt crisis, you need cuts and taxes but taxes are a taboo right now for some arbitrary reason.

    Somebody get me a doctor, I ain't feelin' ill ...But I ain't feelin' this at all...

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    Quote Originally Posted by btbam View Post
    mitt isn't conservative enough for the party, but he can pull more moderate republicans and maybe some libertarians, although Ron Paul would likely get there votes and i'm not certain they would shift to mitt if (when) paul doesn't get it.

    People are pretty dissatisfied with Obama right now. Let me summon my inner Cajun for a second "It's the economy stupid!" if jobs don't improve within a few months, Obama is gonna have a hell of a time regardless of teh candidate. Whoever convinces people they can improve the economy the best and not raise debt or taxes is gonna win. But all of it will just be politicking. If we really wanted to solve the debt crisis, you need cuts and taxes but taxes are a taboo right now for some arbitrary reason.



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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    I really don't know what you are confused about. Would you mind qualifying your response?

    Somebody get me a doctor, I ain't feelin' ill ...But I ain't feelin' this at all...

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