General Politics Thread

[DayWalker]

just like every single person that looks at their paycheck. I know now you have no right at all to bitch about income taxes and you do bitch about income taxes or taxes in general because you are human after all and taxes are just flat out stupid. You and many others have no good reason at all anymore to bitch about taxes or to sigh about taxes. So far after reading many of your posts and how you wishy washy all over the place, I can certainly tell you have no idea on what you are talking about. You basically talk about one certain thing about Obama when a discussion gets to deep for you and that is the capture of Bin Laden. Honestly, his foreign policy sucks regardless of him behind the capture, Have the taxes been decreased yet? hell no. What about our own/United states in general, where is the attention? So far he is still putting attention on other countries far more then the place he is president in.

Everytime a bunch of things about Obama that are said, you seem to go right back to "well, he was behind the capture of Bin Laden". yea, that's a good idea there. "he bailed out the auto industry" Bailouts don't always help and quite frankly right now it's proving that, it may help the auto industry but it certainly does NOT help the people as a whole in the United States. How you cannot see that is beyond even my understanding. I thank the heavens that FORD didn't take any of that bailout money considering I own fords, my grandfather worked at the fordplant. It's one more thing I can be proud of, ford sold off branches and ignored the bailout company, GMC did nothing but take money and while they may be doing good, FORD is still doing good.

Not only that but even with that oil spill, he showed to everyone that he was nothing but an oil companies wet dream, same goes with the Federal for pete sakes. they both love this guy in terms of financial reasonings.

lets not forget the bill he signed himself but before signing it he said something like "This bill is against our values" but signed it anyway. ROFL! DURRRRRRRR! dumbass for a president, that's all. "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" that is the Obama way. Even though the taxes are raised for corporations and rich people, there is a share between that, between him and the multi-million, or billion dollar businesses out there. basically, I did you a favor and you have to do me a favor. Obama has proven many times he is nothing but a media, Federal and corporate muppet.

payroll "tax" cut: everyone got a 2% reduction

The first 2 years of his administration were spent on reversing the recession... and reforming healthcare... how can you claim he wasn't paying attention to America?

The auto bailout saved millions of jobs, and prevented the loss of billions in tax revenue. just b/c Ford is doing well doesn't mean the bail- out was a bad idea. hey I'll admit it, I didn't like the auto bail out either at first... Then i saw the projected domino effect. Its interesting that none of you take issue with bailing out big banks and wallstreet white collar folks... but when it comes to blue collar auto ya get your panties all twisted...

BP's oil permits were signed well in advance of his presidency... and its really more an example of how big oil... and big corporations in general, have bought and paid for Congress.

As for that last bill you mentioned... I believe you're referring to the one that states he can kill US citizens who have defected to fight with an enemy... yeah I'm not sure why he would sign that... other than he stated he didn't want to hold up military spending, which does beg the question why would that provision even be included in that bill...


And as for OBL... Obama did increase are presence in the region by ~500% and more importantly he didn't run off to invade ANOTHER country that wasn't responsible for 9/11 and then spend a decade, a trillion+ dollars, and thousands of american and 100k civilian lives trying to find a way back out... so try to give him SOME credit

[TwentyThree]

payroll "tax" cut: everyone got a 2% reduction

The first 2 years of his administration were spent on reversing the recession... and reforming healthcare... how can you claim he wasn't paying attention to America?

He didn't reverse it though, he just patched what is inevitably coming, a great depression. It will all start with the fall of the dollar.

The auto bailout saved millions of jobs, and prevented the loss of billions in tax revenue. just b/c Ford is doing well doesn't mean the bail- out was a bad idea. hey I'll admit it, I didn't like the auto bail out either at first... Then i saw the projected domino effect. Its interesting that none of you take issue with bailing out big banks and wallstreet white collar folks... but when it comes to blue collar auto ya get your panties all twisted...

I think he should of let capitalism do his work, bailing out banks, wall street, or anything for that matter in that scale is anti-capitalism.

BP's oil permits were signed well in advance of his presidency... and its really more an example of how big oil... and big corporations in general, have bought and paid for Congress.

Congress has been bought for a while now and not just by big oil corps.

As for that last bill you mentioned... I believe you're referring to the one that states he can kill US citizens who have defected to fight with an enemy... yeah I'm not sure why he would sign that... other than he stated he didn't want to hold up military spending, which does beg the question why would that provision even be included in that bill...

With the NDAA they can go after anyone. He signed our "rights" away, take a listen.

And as for OBL... Obama did increase are presence in the region by ~500% and more importantly he didn't run off to invade ANOTHER country that wasn't responsible for 9/11 and then spend a decade, a trillion+ dollars, and thousands of american and 100k civilian lives trying to find a way back out... so try to give him SOME credit

We have to realize (including our leaders) that these wars in the middle east don't benefit us in any way shape or form. They do the complete opposite.

[Sub-stance1]

just like every single person that looks at their paycheck. I know now you have no right at all to bitch about income taxes and you do bitch about income taxes or taxes in general because you are human after all and taxes are just flat out stupid. You and many others have no good reason at all anymore to bitch about taxes or to sigh about taxes. So far after reading many of your posts and how you wishy washy all over the place, I can certainly tell you have no idea on what you are talking about.

I never bitch about taxes. I have no problem paying my fair share. Now, rich people, that is another story....lol

You basically talk about one certain thing about Obama when a discussion gets to deep for you and that is the capture of Bin Laden.

Too deep? lol I don't think so. The Bin Laden kill was a very important issue among Americans. people like to say Obama is weak on foreign policy but he accomplished what Bush and Clinton failed to do. It may be a small thing to you but to most Americans it isn't. Look at the clowns who want his job. I am confident that he is doing much better than any of them could ever do.

Honestly, his foreign policy sucks regardless of him behind the capture

see post above.... I disagree.

Have the taxes been decreased yet? hell no. What about our own/United states in general, where is the attention?So far he is still putting attention on other countries far more then the place he is president in.

That's bullshit. He has put the country first.

Everytime a bunch of things about Obama that are said, you seem to go right back to "well, he was behind the capture of Bin Laden". yea, that's a good idea there. "he bailed out the auto industry" Bailouts don't always help and quite frankly right now it's proving that, it may help the auto industry but it certainly does NOT help the people as a whole in the United States.

But this one did right? Go ask those people in Michigan who's jobs were saved if the bailout helped. The auto industry is back to making big profits now and its mostly because of the bailout. What did republicans do to help? Not a damn thing. They didn't lift a finger because they were secretly hoping that it would fail.

my grandfather worked at the fordplant. It's one more thing I can be proud of, ford sold off branches and ignored the bailout company, GMC did nothing but take money and while they may be doing good, FORD is still doing good.

Good for ford but the bailout of the industry so far has been a success even though you fail to see it.

Not only that but even with that oil spill, he showed to everyone that he was nothing but an oil companies wet dream, same goes with the Federal for pete sakes. they both love this guy in terms of financial reasonings.

You are confusing him with Bush my friend. Oil companies loved Bush even more.

lets not forget the bill he signed himself but before signing it he said something like "This bill is against our values" but signed it anyway. ROFL! DURRRRRRRR! dumbass for a president, that's all. "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" that is the Obama way. Even though the taxes are raised for corporations and rich people, there is a share between that, between him and the multi-million, or billion dollar businesses out there. basically, I did you a favor and you have to do me a favor.

Please... don't go there with the values thing. We all know the republican party have issues in that area as well. For example, does the illegal waterboarding ring a bell? Torture is against our values too and but the Bush administration approved it. What good did it do? Don't act like the republican party is the party of values because well all know that shit isn't true.

Obama has proven many times he is nothing but a media, Federal and corporate muppet

.

Not Fox media though...lol They hate him. Its not his fault that he comes across as likeable to most people.

[Sub-stance1]

payroll "tax" cut: everyone got a 2% reduction

The first 2 years of his administration were spent on reversing the recession... and reforming healthcare... how can you claim he wasn't paying attention to America?

True, which is totally nonsense that he hasn't put the country first.

The auto bailout saved millions of jobs, and prevented the loss of billions in tax revenue. just b/c Ford is doing well doesn't mean the bail- out was a bad idea. hey I'll admit it, I didn't like the auto bail out either at first... Then i saw the projected domino effect. Its interesting that none of you take issue with bailing out big banks and wallstreet white collar folks... but when it comes to blue collar auto ya get your panties all twisted...

That's because they wan't him to fail the most important people. The middle class and the poor.

BP's oil permits were signed well in advance of his presidency... and its really more an example of how big oil... and big corporations in general, have bought and paid for Congress.

True...but all people see is blaming Obam for something that has been happening for years. Now they have a problem because he is in office. Give me a break.

And as for OBL... Obama did increase are presence in the region by ~500% and more importantly he didn't run off to invade ANOTHER country that wasn't responsible for 9/11 and then spend a decade, a trillion+ dollars, and thousands of american and 100k civilian lives trying to find a way back out... so try to give him SOME credit

True.... His campaign focused on the American people and doing whats best for the country and so far he is doing that without much help. I don't expect the right to give him any credit though because politics comes before anything in this country.

[TwentyThree]

@Subs-tance1
I think we can all agree that this president has been put through more scrutiny than any other, some of it he brought on his own. But we won't ever take back control of this country as long as we keep listening to the finger pointing. We have to see beyond the party lines and across them to understand the big picture.

[F34R]

I know I'm no better off than I was before he took office. meh... Time for a change. However, the only change that is necessary will never come.

[DayWalker]

@Subs-tance1
I think we can all agree that this president has been put through more scrutiny than any other, some of it he brought on his own. But we won't ever take back control of this country as long as we keep listening to the finger pointing. We have to see beyond the party lines and across them to understand the big picture.

Like I've been saying- I really think the best thing we can do is term limits for Congressmen...

And a amendment overwriting citizens united.

I also like Buffets idea:

"I could end the deficit in five minutes. You just pass a law that says that any time there's a deficit of more than three percent of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election."

[Sub-stance1]

@Subs-tance1
I think we can all agree that this president has been put through more scrutiny than any other, some of it he brought on his own. But we won't ever take back control of this country as long as we keep listening to the finger pointing.We have to see beyond the party lines and across them to understand the big picture.

I agree. But all this talk about he has done nothing good for the country just shows how deep politics run in this country.

[TwentyThree]

Like I've been saying- I really think the best thing we can do is term limits for Congressmen...

And a amendment overwriting citizens united.

I also like Buffets idea:

Agree. They have build a system of incumbency's which present a great challenge for those of us who want change.

I agree. But all this talk about he has done nothing good for the country just shows how deep politics run in this country.

Yeah. for example I was glad he didn't pass the keystone pipeline bill. Those who cant recognize when presidents do the right thing when they do, are highly influenced by partisan hacks on news outlets.

[Vulgotha]

I don't buy into the idea of the immediate fall of the dollar.. "inevitable" sure- in the sense that no one currency rules forever.

But what is out there that can suitably replace it? The Euro? Hardly. The Yuan? This too is not in a fantastic position..

The US dollar is the reserve currency of the world- it is the medium for almost all business transactions.

[The Black Wolf]

Do you guys like Bush better than Obama?

[TwentyThree]

Edit:

I don't buy into the idea of the immediate fall of the dollar.. "inevitable" sure- in the sense that no one currency rules forever.

But what is out there that can suitably replace it? The Euro? Hardly. The Yuan? This too is not in a fantastic position..

The US dollar is the reserve currency of the world- it is the medium for almost all business transactions.

I'm sure the politicians and the Fed will do their best to delay it.
Our economies are tied together, when one falls it affects everyone. The Fed is secretly dumping trillions of dollars around the world buying politicians, bailing out their buddies, thus screwing the middle and poor class of those countries (including us), that imo is a main issue. Ill be surprised if they ever do a proper audit on the Fed. It would prove how rigged this game really is.

Do you guys like Bush better than Obama?

I think hes no better, he continued the same failed policies as ex President Bush. He hasn't done anything different on the so called "war on terror".

[Vulgotha]

I was under the impression that, for the first time, they have completed an audit.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/traceygr...nder-reported/

[weskurtz81]

But this one did right? Go ask those people in Michigan who's jobs were saved if the bailout helped. The auto industry is back to making big profits now and its mostly because of the bailout. What did republicans do to help? Not a damn thing. They didn't lift a finger because they were secretly hoping that it would fail.

The auto industry is back to making big profits MOSTLY because of the bailout? Really? What did Republicans do? They gave GM a fucking bailout man... is your memory that damned bad?

And keep in mind, I disagree with the way the bailout was handled, this whole thing could have been handled in a much better manner.

You are confusing him with Bush my friend. Oil companies loved Bush even more.

You are correct, Obama is in bed with big labor and probably still wall street.

Please... don't go there with the values thing. We all know the republican party have issues in that area as well. For example, does the illegal waterboarding ring a bell? Torture is against our values too and but the Bush administration approved it. What good did it do? Don't act like the republican party is the party of values because well all know that shit isn't true.

Yeah, Obama gets a pass if you can point at someone else and say that they aren't a whole lot better... is that how you were raised?

Not Fox media though...lol They hate him. Its not his fault that he comes across as likeable to most people.

Not sure where you meant to go with this one.... but... ok.

[TwentyThree]

I was under the impression that, for the first time, they have completed an audit.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/traceygr...nder-reported/

It wasn't a full audit though, meaning we didn't get full disclosure of what they've been doing ever since they've been in charge. This audit also does not disclose future transactions/deals they make. If anything that Audit was just a sneak peak of what they're doing.

I think Ron Paul explains it better here.

[The Black Wolf]

I think hes no better, he continued the same failed policies as ex President Bush. He hasn't done anything different on the so called "war on terror".

He got Bin Laden?

[The Black Wolf]

I don't understand it when people say Obama hasn't done anything, not saying anyone in this thread said that.

He won a nobel peace prize
He passed Health Care Reform (which they say may turn into universal health care, health care for everyone)
He passed a stimulus which seems to be working
He bailed out GM (Look where they are now)
He lowered the unemployment percentage
He has created a ton of jobs since in office

And there's more.

[MATRIX 2]

I don't understand it when people say Obama hasn't done anything, not saying anyone in this thread said that.

He won a nobel peace prize
He passed Health Care Reform (which they say may turn into universal health care, health care for everyone)
He passed a stimulus which seems to be working
He bailed out GM (Look where they are now)
He lowered the unemployment percentage
He has created a ton of jobs since in office

And there's more.

[Blacksite]

He won a nobel peace prize

And I find it suspicious that he was awarded it so early in his presidency.

He got Bin Laden?

I'm sure that any president would have done the same. But no, he didn't actually catch Osama. In the end, it was the work of Seal Team 6.

[Sub-stance1]

And I find it suspicious that he was awarded it so early in his presidency.

Whats so suspicious about it?

I'm sure that any president would have done the same. But no, he didn't actually catch Osama. In the end, it was the work of Seal Team 6.

yep, it was seal team 6 but he gave the order to execute it. He could of easily backed away like others did when they had the chance. At least he was smart enough not to trust pakistan on this one....unlike some others.

[Vulgotha]

What's so suspicious about it? He didn't do anything.

A colleague of mine even speculated that him being given this prize was actually calculated to put intense pressure on him to follow through on his campaign promises, for he certainly had not accomplished anything up until that point.

One way or another, he was undeserving.

It has caused me to think very little of the Nobel peace prize. I've looked into how the process works, and let me tell you: It's entirely political lol. It's not very professional.

To give you an illustration, America could have the exact same thing. We could conjure up an award called the "Washington Freedom Award" for acts which propagate peace\personal liberty (supposedly anyway) and give them out to any individual. Foreign or national.

To decide who is eligible, we create a council of individuals to assess candidacy... Who are appointed by Congress.


Sound legit and totally academic\professional to you?

Didn't think so.


It's basically supervised and run by the Norwegian Parliament. To quote wikipedia:

"Unlike the scientific and literary Nobel Prizes, usually issued in retrospect often two or three decades after the awarded achievement, the Peace Prize has been awarded for more recent or immediate achievements, or with the intention of encouraging future achievements.^{[citation needed]} Some commentators have suggested that to award a peace prize on the basis of unquantifiable contemporary opinion is unjust or possibly erroneous, especially as many of the judges cannot themselves be said to be impartial observers.^[16]In 2011 a feature story in the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten contended that major criticisms of the award were that the Norwegian Nobel Committee ought to recruit members from professional and international backgrounds, rather than retired members of parliament; that there is too little openness about the criteria that the committee uses when they choose a recipient of the prize; and that the adherence to Nobel's will should be more strict. In the article, Norwegian historian Øivind Stenersen argues that Norway has been able to use the prize as an instrument for nation building and furthering Norway's foreign policy and economic interests.^[17]
In another 2011 Aftenposten opinion article, the grandson of one of Nobel's two brothers, Michael Nobel, also criticised what he believed to be the politicisation of the award, claiming that the Nobel Committee has not always acted in accordance with Nobel's will.^[18]"

To me, it's practically meaningless. Like the Emmy's or some other fad\popularity contest, just with a heavier dose of politics.

[squirrelbo1]

He won a nobel peace prize

Before he'd bloody done anything. That award was a sham imo and a discredit to the whole Nobel foundation

[Blacksite]

Whats so suspicious about it?

Like I said, he was awarded it early in his presidency. And it's not like he needs it to begin with if he's striving to attain world peace (good luck with that) and fix the economy. It's suspicious in that it achieves nothing at a time when he achieved nothing apart from his supporters adding one more thing that apparently makes him better than the people who will run against him in the next (which would now be the current) presidential election -- further pushing the archaic belief that Democrats are goody two-shoes and Republicans make all the problems. I don't recall the last time the President of the United States received such an award anyway. Barack Obama just so happened to get everyone caught up in his "Change" mantra.

[Sub-stance1]

What's so suspicious about it? He didn't do anything.

The prize isn't just given to honor specific achievements. Obama also felt he din't deserve the award.

[QUOTE]"I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments but rather an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations."[/QUOTE]

A colleague of mine even speculated that him being given this prize was actually calculated to put intense pressure on him to follow through on his campaign promises, for he certainly had not accomplished anything up until that point.

At that time in his presidency he hadn't accomplished much but things have changed now. He has some accomplishments. I say he is deserving of the award........ Just like MLK, Al Gore and the other US Presidents who received it.

It has caused me to think very little of the Nobel peace prize. I've looked into how the process works, and let me tell you: It's entirely political lol. It's not very professional.

That prize has been awarded since the early 1900's but now all of a sudden when Obama gets it you think very little of it.. smh

A lot of people think that he doesn't deserve it but what can you do about it? It is what it is.

[Vulgotha]

Uh, him getting it so quickly made me do a double take and look at it more closely for the first time. Up until then, apart from some of the hooplah surrounding Al Gore, I had taken it to be completely professional and legitimate.

So here's the thing, you trying to discredit my argument by saying "WELL YOU ONLY NOW SAY THIS BECAUSE OF OBAMA!" tells me:

1. You're leaping to conclusions

2. You really don't understand how the Nobel Peace Prize system works (it isn't like other prestigious academic\scientific awards).

3. It is immaterial why I've become skeptical of the Nobel Peace Prize, my conclusions are really all that matters here. For all it matters I could have been enraged that Mother Theresa (or some such) was awarded the NPP and looked up on it.