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  1. #1651
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    Donald Rumsfeld: Osama not ‘tough call’


    lol...and people wonder why he was disliked so much by the military....smh

    In other news Mr. "I'm gonna be the nominee" suspends hi campaign...lol


    Its gonna be comedy gold to see him support Romney after all the things he said about him... It just keeps getting better.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 05-03-2012 at 01:56.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Donald Rumsfeld: Osama not ‘tough call’

    lol...and people wonder why he was disliked so much by the military....smh
    The military (in general) disliked him because of this? Here I was the whole time thinking it was because of his military strategy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    In other news Mr. "I'm gonna be the nominee" suspends hi campaign...lol

    Its gonna be comedy gold to see him support Romney after all the things he said about him... It just keeps getting better.
    Yeah, no kidding, talk about setting a major precedent! No candidates that lose the primary from the same party support the one that wins! That's crazy to think that would happen! Hell, Hillary Clinton didn't even endorse Obama after that hard fought primary.... RIGHT!!!

    Once again, let me know when you feel like debating the points...
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    Obama: No 'doubts in my own head' over bin Laden raid

    http://www.politico.com/politico44/2...id-122334.html

    And a good choice it was. Proves that he is more than capable of making sound military decisions. Pretty damn good for a Muslim, who is the anti-christ, who was born in kenya, and who is hell bent on destroying our great country.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 05-03-2012 at 06:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Obama: No 'doubts in my own head' over bin Laden raid

    http://www.politico.com/politico44/2...id-122334.html

    And a good choice it was. Proves that he is more than capable of making sound military decisions. Pretty damn good for a Muslim, who is the anti-christ, who was born in kenya, and who is hell bent on destroying our great country.
    Just shut up man. Nobody is calling Obama a Muslim or anything like that. When you actually feel like talking and not bash republicans with every other sentence let us know. The raid was a good choice obviously. The issue I have, the one you refuse to address is Obama implies Romney wouldn't have pulled the trigger. It's hitting below the belt, a cheap shot and quite slanderous since it's all hypothetical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by btbam View Post
    Just shut up man. Nobody is calling Obama a Muslim or anything like that. When you actually feel like talking and not bash republicans with every other sentence let us know. The raid was a good choice obviously. The issue I have, the one you refuse to address is Obama implies Romney wouldn't have pulled the trigger. It's hitting below the belt, a cheap shot and quite slanderous since it's all hypothetical.
    Cheap shots...lol It may have been a bit of a cheap shot but the right has been throwing cheap shots and slandering since day 1. I'm not bashing republicans but if you wanna talk real issues, then be real and stop trying to ignore what I posted hasn't been said. Stop trying to ignore the fact that the extreme right never stands up and publicly give the man credit for anything. Now, maybe Obama saying that Romney wouldn't of made the call is a little overboard, but Romney saying Iran will get nukes if he doesn't get elected is way overboard and playing fear politics. The truth of the matter is that he was one of the main ones criticizing how weak Obama would be on foreign policy before he got elected. Now he's is eating crow and Obama is firing back. I say its fair game for him to rub it in their faces. Don't act like if Dubya had of did it the republicans wouldn't be doing the same.

    I don't bash republicans but the republican party that I used to know doesn't exist anymore. They will never get my vote again until they wake up and see how far they have fallen as a party.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 05-03-2012 at 14:28.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Cheap shots...lol It may have been a bit of a cheap shot but the right has been throwing cheap shots and slandering since day 1. I'm not bashing republicans but if you wanna talk real issues, then be real and stop trying to ignore what I posted hasn't been said. Stop trying to ignore the fact that the extreme right never stands up and publicly give the man credit for anything. Now, maybe Obama saying that Romney wouldn't of made the call is a little overboard, but Romney saying Iran will get nukes if he doesn't get elected is way overboard and playing fear politics. The truth of the matter is that he was one of the main ones criticizing how weak Obama would be on foreign policy before he got elected. Now he's is eating crow and Obama is firing back. I say its fair game for him to rub it in their faces. Don't act like if Dubya had of did it the republicans wouldn't be doing the same.

    I don't bash republicans but the republican party that I used to know doesn't exist anymore. They will never get my vote again until they wake up and see how far they have fallen as a party.
    I have responded to what you've posted. I've said about 4 separate times Obama going to Afghanistan was a good thing. That is the current topic at hand. Thing is you include in every post some nonsense about fox news or imply all republicians are bigots and think Obama is a Muslim/anti christ etc. Nobody here brought that up, nobody here believes it. In fact 98 percent of republicans don't believe it, yet you still find it necessary to inject that into your post. All your doing is mocking republicans and I'm tired of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by btbam View Post
    I have responded to what you've posted. I've said about 4 separate times Obama going to Afghanistan was a good thing. That is the current topic at hand. Thing is you include in every post some nonsense about fox news or imply all republicians are bigots and think Obama is a Muslim/anti christ etc. Nobody here brought that up, nobody here believes it. In fact 98 percent of republicans don't believe it, yet you still find it necessary to inject that into your post. All your doing is mocking republicans and I'm tired of it.
    I never said all republicans were bigots, you are assuming that. What you call nonsense are just the things that are turning off some independents from the republican party. How can the party of "family values" do and say some of the things they are doing. For example, Romney says he supports the LGBT community but releases his gay advisor. He already has the nomination sown up and he didn't have the balls to stand up and defend an employee he chose to the extreme fringe right of his party and tell them to go screw themselves. That's just one of many examples of mistakes that they are making and giving the President more ammo to use against them in this election.

    I can see why things like Obama's religion aren't brought up here. Its because you and others want to deny the fact that members of the right still think that way. If 98% of republicans don't believe it then why won't they go on record and say it publicly? And why do people like Santorum don't have the balls(like Mccain did) to correct someone publicly who says such vile things. I think we all know the real answer to that one.

    What party stands by and watches a deployed soldier get booed in the middle of a debate? No one on stage had the balls to stand up and say or do the right thing. This November, people won't forget that.

    How can the party allow someone like Newt Gingrich to question someones family values and be a leading candidate knowing what he did goes against everything they stand for.

    The GOP's desire to beat Obama at any cost, and its unwillingness to realize that, is sinking the party to a low point. if they keep this up they won't be able to take back the White House.

    I'm not mocking republicans, and i don't belong to any party but I call it as I see it. The truth is that both democrats and Republicans need to get their $#@! together. Right now it seems that the Republicans tunnel vision won't allow them to do that.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 05-03-2012 at 17:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Cheap shots...lol It may have been a bit of a cheap shot but the right has been throwing cheap shots and slandering since day 1. I'm not bashing republicans but if you wanna talk real issues, then be real and stop trying to ignore what I posted hasn't been said. Stop trying to ignore the fact that the extreme right never stands up and publicly give the man credit for anything. Now, maybe Obama saying that Romney wouldn't of made the call is a little overboard, but Romney saying Iran will get nukes if he doesn't get elected is way overboard and playing fear politics. The truth of the matter is that he was one of the main ones criticizing how weak Obama would be on foreign policy before he got elected. Now he's is eating crow and Obama is firing back. I say its fair game for him to rub it in their faces. Don't act like if Dubya had of did it the republicans wouldn't be doing the same.

    I don't bash republicans but the republican party that I used to know doesn't exist anymore. They will never get my vote again until they wake up and see how far they have fallen as a party.
    Pretty much what btbam said above. There are extremes in both parties, the far left never gives Republican presidents credit for ANYTHING they do either, that's just life. I have given Obama credit for some things, I don't give him credit for other things. I am giving him less and less credit as time goes on because I don't care for where he stands and how he leads.

    What Romney said about Iran getting nukes if Obama was re-elected, I understand WHY he said it but I think it's probably BS. My problem is that Obama ran as not just another politician but that's EXACTLY what he is. If he didn't present himself like he did to win his campaign I probably wouldn't care so much, but he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I never said all republicans were bigots, you are assuming that. What you call nonsense are just the things that are turning off some independents from the republican party. How can the party of "family values" do and say some of the things they are doing. For example, Romney says he supports the LGBT community but releases his gay advisor. He already has the nomination sown up and he didn't have the balls to stand up and defend an employee he chose to the extreme fringe right of his party and tell them to go screw themselves. That's just one of many examples of mistakes that they are making and giving the President more ammo to use against them in this election.
    From what I read, Romney didn't release him, the guy resigned.
    Last edited by weskurtz81; 05-03-2012 at 17:52.
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    Well, at least you're not making up completely false statements and, instead, going with a safer bet; a video.

    I'm sure we've all seen the hypocrisy of politics in this regard, something that has been discussed ad nauseum over the last however many days. That video might have had more of an impact on, say, Monday.

    This "spiking of the football" jazz is going to blow up in their face, namely because they are criticizing something that they have staunchly supported, championed, in the past. Just more spin that people are blindly buying into.

    I have decided to resign from the Romney campaign as the Foreign Policy and National Security Spokesman. While I welcomed the challenge to confront President Obama’s foreign policy failures and weak leadership on the world stage, my ability to speak clearly and forcefully on the issues has been greatly diminished by the hyper-partisan discussion of personal issues that sometimes comes from a presidential campaign. I want to thank Governor Romney for his belief in me and my abilities and his clear message to me that being openly gay was a non-issue for him and his team.
    This is extremely unfortunate. Sadly, I didn't hear much of a defense from Romney on the matter. The lack of discussion from their end seems to suggest more of an agreement over the decision, when it may - and I feel awful for even saying this - have actually been a pretty large positive to aggressively defend his involvement in the campaign. Sadly, some are more concerned with saving face than standing up for what is actually right. Not that either side is exempt from any such doing, but that doesn't make it any better. Or less worse.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    lol...True right wing propaganda. Since this is all about politics we can't forget this one:



    You can claim Obama spiked the football all you want but Bush spiked the football before the game was even started...

    This is extremely unfortunate. Sadly, I didn't hear much of a defense from Romney on the matter. The lack of discussion from their end seems to suggest more of an agreement over the decision, when it may - and I feel awful for even saying this - have actually been a pretty large positive to aggressively defend his involvement in the campaign. Sadly, some are more concerned with saving face than standing up for what is actually right. Not that either side is exempt from any such doing, but that doesn't make it any better. Or less worse.
    We all know the real reason this guy was terminated. The extreme right has struck again and Romney caved in.

    Also looney toons Bachman has endorsed Romney, when just a few months ago she stated publicly that he can't beat Obama. Last election Mccain hated Romney so much and wouldn't put him on his ticket and instead chose Palin. Now, Mccain is going around campaigning for Romney. Palin prefers Newt and Mccain prefers Romney but last election Mccain and Pain claimed to share the same views. The $#@! is too funny.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 05-03-2012 at 22:26.

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    Oh, I have no doubt that there was inside pressure after the $#@! storm that followed. It obviously looks better to have someone step down than to show your direct involvement. I think the lack of comment, the lack of "outrage," only speaks to that.

    You can't go against the grain of the base and expect to still win their vote. Some of these people feel entirely too strongly on the matter. Which, unfortunately, is the sad truth. Again, maybe not felt by all, but felt by many. You don't want to agitate those that hold your fate in their hands.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    lol...True right wing propaganda. Since this is all about politics we can't forget this one:



    You can claim Obama spiked the football all you want but Bush spiked the football before the game was even started...



    We all know the real reason this guy was terminated. The extreme right has struck again and Romney caved in.

    Also looney toons Bachman has endorsed Romney, when just a few months ago she stated publicly that he can't beat Obama. Last election Mccain hated Romney so much and wouldn't put him on his ticket and instead chose Palin. Now, Mccain is going around campaigning for Romney. Palin prefers Newt and Mccain prefers Romney but last election Mccain and Pain claimed to share the same views. The $#@! is too funny.

    May 1, 2003, hmm not an election year.

    An I don't see see how anybody could claim that as a spike since it was one of the biggest miscalculations of that entire presidency.

    And at least he gave credit to the troops in that video, unlike Obama's One Chance ad.

    Lets look at the ad again:



    Romney said: "It's not worth moving heaven and earth, spending billions of dollars just trying to catch one person"

    He is right, it isn't worth the cost just to find and kill one man. Bin Laden isn't Al-Queda, killing him does not eliminate Al-Queda as a threat. Hell our efforts in killing more junior members of Al-Queda around the world probably had more of an effect to weaken them. All Bin Laden is to them now is a martyr.

    But to suggest that any president wouldn't have made the decision to go ahead with that operation given the same information obama had is ludicrous. It was pretty clear that a high value Al-Queda target resided in that building, whether it was Bin Laden or a lesser Al-Queda member.

    In fact its kind of amusing that people act like obama did such a great risky thing in giving final authorization. It wasn't.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...make-mind.html

    It took him 16 hours to make up his mind, even though we were monitoring that building since August of 2010.

    8 months of surveillance and your telling me that there was still room for doubt that we wouldn't uncover anything significant there and therefore shouldn't proceed with the operation.

    Not to mention, he didn't even give the final go, Panetta had to do it.

    And lets say obama didn't do anything around that time. (April 29) There are two things that could have happened. #1 He would initiate the operation at a later date. (likely in 2011) I doubt there is much more they could find out about that building to give them more assurance that the mission would be justified. And that's assuming that Bin Laden didn't decide to leave and relocate to another location, setting us back on the hunt for him.

    And the 2nd thing that could have happened? 8 months is a relatively long time to keep a secret like that. How much longer do you think that knowledge could be kept a secret. Sure it would be easier to maintain secrecy on the US side, but who knows about the Pakistani's or anybody else who might know something.

    It it got out that Obama had good intelligence on the location of Bin Laden in Pakistan and did nothing about it, how do you think it would have played out then.

    Not well for him.

    So essentially there wasn't much of a decision to make since there was too much at stake to wait any longer.

    And if there was nothing wrong with obama's ad, why would the SEAL's criticize him for it?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...id-credit.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    May 1, 2003, hmm not an election year.

    An I don't see see how anybody could claim that as a spike since it was one of the biggest miscalculations of that entire presidency.

    And at least he gave credit to the troops in that video, unlike Obama's One Chance ad.

    Lets look at the ad again:



    Romney said: "It's not worth moving heaven and earth, spending billions of dollars just trying to catch one person"

    He is right, it isn't worth the cost just to find and kill one man. Bin Laden isn't Al-Queda, killing him does not eliminate Al-Queda as a threat. Hell our efforts in killing more junior members of Al-Queda around the world probably had more of an effect to weaken them. All Bin Laden is to them now is a martyr.

    But to suggest that any president wouldn't have made the decision to go ahead with that operation given the same information obama had is ludicrous. It was pretty clear that a high value Al-Queda target resided in that building, whether it was Bin Laden or a lesser Al-Queda member.

    In fact its kind of amusing that people act like obama did such a great risky thing in giving final authorization. It wasn't.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...make-mind.html

    It took him 16 hours to make up his mind, even though we were monitoring that building since August of 2010.

    8 months of surveillance and your telling me that there was still room for doubt that we wouldn't uncover anything significant there and therefore shouldn't proceed with the operation.

    Not to mention, he didn't even give the final go, Panetta had to do it.

    And lets say obama didn't do anything around that time. (April 29) There are two things that could have happened. #1 He would initiate the operation at a later date. (likely in 2011) I doubt there is much more they could find out about that building to give them more assurance that the mission would be justified. And that's assuming that Bin Laden didn't decide to leave and relocate to another location, setting us back on the hunt for him.

    And the 2nd thing that could have happened? 8 months is a relatively long time to keep a secret like that. How much longer do you think that knowledge could be kept a secret. Sure it would be easier to maintain secrecy on the US side, but who knows about the Pakistani's or anybody else who might know something.

    It it got out that Obama had good intelligence on the location of Bin Laden in Pakistan and did nothing about it, how do you think it would have played out then.

    Not well for him.

    So essentially there wasn't much of a decision to make since there was too much at stake to wait any longer.

    And if there was nothing wrong with obama's ad, why would the SEAL's criticize him for it?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...id-credit.html
    Lol..you have got to be joking. Stop posting links spewing that garbage. What difference does it make how long it took him to make the decision. I will take 16 hours over the 8 years Dubya had to do it. So let me get this straight. Now, you are saying that he took too long to make up his mind....

    I highly doubt the SEALS are criticizing the President for taking credit for that mission. Maybe there may be some retired or former seals but not any active. Its obvious why that is totally false so nice try.

    Panetta isn't the Commander-in-Chief so no final call came from him on this. Obama made the final call and ordered the raid. What pisses you off about the Obama administration successful Bin-laden mission? Are you pissed because he did what Bush couldn't do in 8 years? He had his chances at Tora Bora and $#@!ed up by listening to Rumsfeld( a guy the military brass despises) who went against the top military commanders. He got away because of Bush's reluctance to do what Obama did.

    oh, and that was definitely a spike by Dubya claiming the end to combat operations and saying mission accomplished. We all know what happened after that...lol Stop trying to make Romney out to be a foreign Policy expert when we all know that he flip flops at the drop of a dime.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 05-03-2012 at 23:37.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    May 1, 2003, hmm not an election year.
    Closer than not. And you are, in fact, entering a crucial point leading up to election year.

    An I don't see see how anybody could claim that as a spike since it was one of the biggest miscalculations of that entire presidency.
    So we should just forget it happened, right?

    And at least he gave credit to the troops in that video, unlike Obama's One Chance ad.

    Lets look at the ad again:
    One is an ad, the other is a speech. If we're going to pick pubes then let us admit that Obama thanked the "troops" involved in numerous speeches following the call.

    Romney said: "It's not worth moving heaven and earth, spending billions of dollars just trying to catch one person"

    He is right, it isn't worth the cost just to find and kill one man. Bin Laden isn't Al-Queda, killing him does not eliminate Al-Queda as a threat. Hell our efforts in killing more junior members of Al-Queda around the world probably had more of an effect to weaken them. All Bin Laden is to them now is a martyr.
    So, considering the influence that a martyr can have, we shouldn't have even bothered, right? Because his presence, living influence wasn't nearly as bad?

    But to suggest that any president wouldn't have made the decision to go ahead with that operation given the same information obama had is ludicrous. It was pretty clear that a high value Al-Queda target resided in that building, whether it was Bin Laden or a lesser Al-Queda member.

    In fact its kind of amusing that people act like obama did such a great risky thing in giving final authorization. It wasn't.
    From what we've been told, it wasn't entirely certain he was even there. It was a good chance he was, but it wasn't a certainty. Then consider the risk of pulling something like that off, under the cover of night in Pakistan, and you don't think that holds risk? It obviously does...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...make-mind.html

    It took him 16 hours to make up his mind, even though we were monitoring that building since August of 2010.

    8 months of surveillance and your telling me that there was still room for doubt that we wouldn't uncover anything significant there and therefore shouldn't proceed with the operation.
    Even after that time, apparently, it wasn't entirely clear who was residing in the compound. It was clearly, apparently, a heavily guarded and secretive compound. Make the call the next day after some intel comes in that suggests he is there? Seems logical they would try to gather some intel, to confirm or deny the report. It actually makes sense.

    Not to mention, he didn't even give the final go, Panetta had to do it.
    Picking pubes.

    It it got out that Obama had good intelligence on the location of Bin Laden in Pakistan and did nothing about it, how do you think it would have played out then.

    Not well for him.
    But, it didn't ... sooooo ....


    And if there was nothing wrong with obama's ad, why would the SEAL's criticize him for it?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...id-credit.html
    "Some" SEALs and "some former" SEALs. And what of the soldiers that have criticized Bush and his comments, decisions and actions that we are apparently forgetting about? We heard the same stuff before when Bush was running for re election and essentially playing the same card? His comments about Kerry were run as he was entering his second leg, or attempting to. It's no different, and frankly it's sort of stupid to suggest this isn't any different.


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    Quote Originally Posted by plustheharm View Post
    Closer than not. And you are, in fact, entering a crucial point leading up to election year.



    So we should just forget it happened, right?



    One is an ad, the other is a speech. If we're going to pick pubes then let us admit that Obama thanked the "troops" involved in numerous speeches following the call.



    So, considering the influence that a martyr can have, we shouldn't have even bothered, right? Because his presence, living influence wasn't nearly as bad?



    From what we've been told, it wasn't entirely certain he was even there. It was a good chance he was, but it wasn't a certainty. Then consider the risk of pulling something like that off, under the cover of night in Pakistan, and you don't think that holds risk? It obviously does...



    Even after that time, apparently, it wasn't entirely clear who was residing in the compound. It was clearly, apparently, a heavily guarded and secretive compound. Make the call the next day after some intel comes in that suggests he is there? Seems logical they would try to gather some intel, to confirm or deny the report. It actually makes sense.



    Picking pubes.



    But, it didn't ... sooooo ....



    "Some" SEALs and "some former" SEALs. And what of the soldiers that have criticized Bush and his comments, decisions and actions that we are apparently forgetting about? We heard the same stuff before when Bush was running for re election and essentially playing the same card? His comments about Kerry were run as he was entering his second leg, or attempting to. It's no different, and frankly it's sort of stupid to suggest this isn't any different.
    Dude we all know why the right is making theses claims. Its so obvious. They are just trying to undercut the President for delivering on killing the most wanted man in history. For so long Republicans have said that Democrats are weak on national security and now they can use that anymore and its just killing them. There is no doubt in my mind that if Dubya had of done it the right wing would be as happy as a gay man at a $#@! party...

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    Can't really argue that, and it's been pretty evident over the past few. They're more concerned with saving face than anything. Their unwillingness to "play ball," their unwillingness to acknowledge any positive that has come about over the last years (even I would admit there have been shortcomings, but I wasn't expecting miracles across the board, as that would be silly) and it becomes more than apparent that some are more concerned with "winning" than "losing."

    We all know that politics are a petty and sad game at times, but the last few years have been some seriously sad $#@!. Then you have people trying to regurgitate the same $#@! they hear on the news and it kills me how painfully wrong they can be.

    This little gem on why Hillary Clinton won't - no, wait, can't - run;



    Thanks, Matrix.

    ---------------------------------------



    Last edited by plustheharm; 05-04-2012 at 00:45.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Lol..you have got to be joking. Stop posting links spewing that garbage. What difference does it make how long it took him to make the decision. I will take 16 hours over the 8 years Dubya had to do it. So let me get this straight. Now, you are saying that he took too long to make up his mind....

    I highly doubt the SEALS are criticizing the President for taking credit for that mission. Maybe there may be some retired or former seals but not any active. Its obvious why that is totally false so nice try.

    Panetta isn't the Commander-in-Chief so no final call came from him on this. Obama made the final call and ordered the raid. What pisses you off about the Obama administration successful Bin-laden mission? Are you pissed because he did what Bush couldn't do in 8 years? He had his chances at Tora Bora and $#@!ed up by listening to Rumsfeld( a guy the military brass despises) who went against the top military commanders. He got away because of Bush's reluctance to do what Obama did.

    oh, and that was definitely a spike by Dubya claiming the end to combat operations and saying mission accomplished. We all know what happened after that...lol Stop trying to make Romney out to be a foreign Policy expert when we all know that he flip flops at the drop of a dime.
    It took him 16 hours to make up his mind on something 8 months in the making. Seems sketchy to me that he was just considering details about the operation and not worrying about political repercussions/blowback should the mission not go as planned/fail.

    And its obvious why active duty seals can't comment, they aren't allowed to talk about the president. Hell when Arianna Huffington is criticizing the president for spiking the football, you really have to wonder what obama's angle is.

    Panetta may have been acting on obama's words but what was stopping Obama from being able to give the final go to Mcraven directly?

    http://swampland.time.com/2011/05/03...raid-early-on/

    You have to be a pretty poor judge of peoples intentions if you believe I couldn't care less about what bush could or could not do during his time. AFAIC he fails as soon as he ignored Clinton's warnings about Al-Queda and Bin Laden.

    What bush did is no different than the recent visit by Obama to Afghanistan and the speech he gave there. And I fale to understand why you can't see that it wasn't a spike when it blew up in his face and we got stuck there far longer than anybody believed we would.

    And Like I said Obama didn't have much of a choice to not go ahead with the operation considering the likely outcomes of not doing so.

    To believe that any other president/potential presidential candidate (perhaps with the exception of Ron Paul) wouldn't do the same thing is foolish at best and delusional at worst.





    Quote Originally Posted by plustheharm View Post
    Closer than not. And you are, in fact, entering a crucial point leading up to election year.



    So we should just forget it happened, right?



    One is an ad, the other is a speech. If we're going to pick pubes then let us admit that Obama thanked the "troops" involved in numerous speeches following the call.



    So, considering the influence that a martyr can have, we shouldn't have even bothered, right? Because his presence, living influence wasn't nearly as bad?



    From what we've been told, it wasn't entirely certain he was even there. It was a good chance he was, but it wasn't a certainty. Then consider the risk of pulling something like that off, under the cover of night in Pakistan, and you don't think that holds risk? It obviously does...



    Even after that time, apparently, it wasn't entirely clear who was residing in the compound. It was clearly, apparently, a heavily guarded and secretive compound. Make the call the next day after some intel comes in that suggests he is there? Seems logical they would try to gather some intel, to confirm or deny the report. It actually makes sense.



    Picking pubes.



    But, it didn't ... sooooo ....



    "Some" SEALs and "some former" SEALs. And what of the soldiers that have criticized Bush and his comments, decisions and actions that we are apparently forgetting about? We heard the same stuff before when Bush was running for re election and essentially playing the same card? His comments about Kerry were run as he was entering his second leg, or attempting to. It's no different, and frankly it's sort of stupid to suggest this isn't any different.
    You have got to be joking if you think 18 months out from the election is, "a crucial point".

    Did I say we should forget about in, no. Don't try and put words in my mouth. Point is Obama's ad was made after a successful decision, Bush 43's speech jumped the gun.

    And just because Obama thanked the "troops" before doesn't mean that he couldn't have made a quick mention of his decision allowing the SEAL's to kill Bin Laden in the ad. Or have Bill say that the downside would have been horrible for everyone/USA. (not just HIM)

    If you could calculate the true cost of the manhunt for Bin Laden, I doubt anyone would see it as a fiscally sound decision. Sure its great that he's dead now, but we still have a long way to go to eliminate Al-Queda. And I just heard on the news today that Bin Laden was losing control of Al Queda and his orders even being ignored. So in the grand scheme of things, he is just a man, killing him doesn't stop Al-Queda or eliminate their motivation to attack us.

    For all we know his death may have cause them to redouble their efforts to attack us again.

    According to your line of thinking, since he is now dead we should start to scale back out antiterror efforts. But that won't happen, the likelihood of various legislation that reduced/infringed our rights being rescinded is nil.

    Like I said, even if it wasn't Bin Laden we knew there was a high value Al-Queda target/location there. The main rick you refer to is that to Obama and his future. Do you really think the Pakistani's would dare to hold our soldiers hostage should they have faced more trouble than they did.

    And considering how much those SEAL's trained in replicas of that building combined with the skill of the 160th pilots, I have no reservations at all about them being able to pull the mission off.

    Things are a lot different than they were in 1980.

    8 months is a reasonably long time to gather intelligence, with your logic we could have waited indefinitely for better information before going ahead with the operation. Seriously, what do you want? A detailed picture of Bin Laden in the compound.

    The entire point is to show that Obama didn't make the decision with massive amounts of risk going against him. The information shows that it would be pretty hard to make the case to not go ahead with the operation given the information they had at the time.

    Bush may have used a similar tactic to win reelection, but that doesn't mean obama should stoop down to that level as well.

    And bush was riding the high of capturing Saddam Hussein in December as well as ensuring that another attack didn't occur in the ~3 years after 9/11. (whether that was due to his policies or not).

    Bush also made the argument about Kerry being a flip flopper, sounds familiar.

    And despite all those things, Bush barely won reelection.

    Perhaps its just my attitude but I'm not one to go boasting about my accomplishments, I let my record speak for itself. Seems to me Obama could have done the same thing and let things be.

    Do you really thing Romney would try to claim Obama wasn't touch on terrorism or doing what was necessary to keep the USA safe.

    We are talking about a man after all who vowed to pull the US out if Iraq (and Afghanistan would be too far behind) imminently when he took office, but waited till December 2011 for a formal widthdrawl. (not sure when the "advisors" will leave) And that we will have a presence in Afghanistan till 2024.

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    sigh... this thread and discussion has not progressed an inch for 4 years...

    in other news:

    US Job creation at 4 year high
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/154406/Jo...Year-High.aspx

    And here's an excellent comparison/article on big donor/little donor:
    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...an-for-romney/



    Personally I think a bigger issue is how big money runs the political process.

    These 2 campaigns + their super pacs are going to throw billions at one another... what a waste.
    At the end of the day... under this system... how can anyone expect a President to look after the middle class issues instead of being beholden to Big biz, wallstreet, the unions... you name it.

    By Theft
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    Trust me, it's sad

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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    sigh... this thread and discussion has not progressed an inch for 4 years...

    in other news:

    US Job creation at 4 year high
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/154406/Jo...Year-High.aspx

    And here's an excellent comparison/article on big donor/little donor:
    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...an-for-romney/



    Personally I think a bigger issue is how big money runs the political process.

    These 2 campaigns + their super pacs are going to throw billions at one another... what a waste.
    At the end of the day... under this system... how can anyone expect a President to look after the middle class issues instead of being beholden to Big biz, wallstreet, the unions... you name it.
    The country hasn't improved in 4 years.

    And I would bet on Ron Paul ignoring the system to focus on the interests of the average citizen.

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    oh please... EVERYONE is better off than they were summer 2008.

    watching inside the situation room right now...
    not sure where you're getting your info from... sounds like sour grapes... and right wing boo-hooing

    By Theft
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    Trust me, it's sad

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    The country hasn't improved in 4 years.

    And I would bet on Ron Paul ignoring the system to focus on the interests of the average citizen.
    Yet we continue to add jobs, continue to add programs for education, and continue to make progress in the far east.

    Currently Playing: Lumines Electronic Symphony (Vita)

  25. #1673
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    The country hasn't improved in 4 years.

    And I would bet on Ron Paul ignoring the system to focus on the interests of the average citizen.
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/154406/Jo...Year-High.aspx




    ====================

    speaking of who's keeping their campaign promises and who's not:

    GOP/Tea Baggers:
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ledge-o-meter/

    Obama:
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ises/obameter/
    Last edited by DayWalker; 05-04-2012 at 01:43.

    By Theft
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    Trust me, it's sad

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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    oh please... EVERYONE is better off than they were summer 2008.

    watching inside the situation room right now...
    not sure where you're getting your info from... sounds like sour grapes... and right wing boo-hooing
    Funny you say that. My mom had a job in 2008. Not so today. That's just 1 example going against your overly general statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2

    You have to be a pretty poor judge of a person character if you think I'm a "right winger" Not that there is anything wrong with being a "right winger'


    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    Yet we continue to add jobs, continue to add programs for education, and continue to make progress in the far east.
    Yes because that totally encompasses the term improvement. Stop being so narrow minded. Or vague for that matter.

    Programs for education, like what?

    Far East? Its 2012, not 1912 you can say China. (or whatever country you are referring to). And again, what kind of progress?

    Funny how you interpret my definition of improvement to jobs. Don't be so narrow minded either.

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    At first I was all like;



    but then;



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