General Politics Thread

[Sub-stance1]

Yes. Bush did set the date for withdrawl in Iraq. You can look it up if you want but its Bush's signature on the agreements with the Iraq govt. So yes...bush is responsible for the iraq withdrawl. Wed only be there if he violated the treaty he signed...so nice try. Obama is responsible for afghanistan.

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I don't need to look anything up. I know Dubya signed that back in 2008 because of mounting pressure. May I remind you that we had already been there 5 years after he claimed the famous "mission accomplished". I also know that there were plans to extend the stay until that fell apart. So yes, Dubya signed the withdrawal date but Obama is the one who made the decision to pull us out of Iraq...so nice try. So if you wanna give dubya credit for anything, you can start by crediting him with making one of the biggest mistakes in our country's history. That date he set was a "I know I fucked up and I want to leave office with something positive" but it didn't work.

[btbam]

I don't need to look anything up. I know Dubya signed that back in 2008 because of mounting pressure. May I remind you that we had already been there 5 years after he claimed the famous "mission accomplished". I also know that there were plans to extend the stay until that fell apart. So yes, Dubya signed the withdrawal date but Obama is the one who made the decision to pull us out of Iraq...so nice try. So if you wanna give dubya credit for anything, you can start by crediting him with making one of the biggest mistakes in our country's history. That date he set was a "I know I fucked up and I want to leave office with something positive" but it didn't work.

Lets see if I can explain this to you...doubt youll listen but lets give it a shot. The Status of Forces agreement signed in 08 detailed the withdrawl date of the u.s. from Iraq. It was a treaty...only thing obama did in that situation was not break the treaty whic is tantamont to doing nothing. You can bitch and moan all you want republicans wont give obama credit for anything but all I see is a pot calling the kettle black. The mission accomplished sign was a blunder and quite humorous but honestly obama is only responsible for the afghan withdrawl.

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[DayWalker]

Btam...you really think that if you USA/president decided to extend our stay in Iraq... the treaty you keep trumpeting would even cause pause for thought?

[btbam]

Btam...you really think that if you USA/president decided to extend our stay in Iraq... the treaty you keep trumpeting would even cause pause for thought?

It doesn't matter, tbecause thats just a hypothetical. Essentially what you are asking is if Obama wanted to extend the stay in Iraq he would ignore the treaty, but that obviously didn't happen. So because Obama didn't break the treaty he is responsible for the withdrawl...right.

[DayWalker]

ok... just as long as you stop pretending that American treaty's with people they have "conquered" (or countries without Nukes) mean anything.

Native Americans say hi

[btbam]

ok... just as long as you stop pretending that American treaty's with people they have "conquered" (or countries without Nukes) mean anything.

Native Americans say hi

Im half cherokee so I do know a thing or two about broken treaties. Again it is irrelevent because the treaty that matters isthe status of forces agreement. You want to determine whether or not the united states would honor a treay currently based on the 1800s. People who signed and broke thos treaties are dead...i have full confidence in modern treatie.

[Sub-stance1]

Lets see if I can explain this to you...doubt youll listen but lets give it a shot. The Status of Forces agreement signed in 08 detailed the withdrawl date of the u.s. from Iraq. It was a treaty...only thing obama did in that situation was not break the treaty whic is tantamont to doing nothing. You can bitch and moan all you want republicans wont give obama credit for anything but all I see is a pot calling the kettle black. The mission accomplished sign was a blunder and quite humorous but honestly obama is only responsible for the afghan withdrawl.

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lol..I know bush signed signed the agreement. Did you read my post? All troops were to be out of Iraqi cities by 2009 and out of the country by 2011. And before that there was UN security council resolution 1790 and referendums were held in 2010, so don't act like Dubya did all the work with that signing. Its not that easy my friend. Dubya doesn't get any credit for pulling anyone out of Iraq in my book. Obama is the one who outlined and carried out the pullout plan. Where was Dubya's exit strategy? He didn't have one. 5 long years and he never came up with anything. This isn't the pot calling the kettle black. I gave him the only credit that he deserves in that whole entire event, and that is the huge error he made in invading in the first place. That's probably the reason that he hardly ever never shows his mug anymore? And we wonder why none of the Republicans that were in the primarys never mentioned his name.

[weskurtz81]

Like I said, I think there is some validity to your point, and I never suggested he was the only one to thank for that, so I suppose I took the idea of it the wrong way. I guess I missed that mention of him having some play in the matter, or at least, getting some credit. I see the all too familiar statement about him not doing anything and then coupled with that other I assume we are just swinging it the other way. Then again, maybe you weren't one of the "he hasn't done anything" crowd, and I suppose I could go back and look buuuuuuuut the Bulls game just started.

I didn't mention it in that post or probably even this thread, I should probably preface anything that could come across as negative with a positive, but I didn't this time.

As for the comments about the right and left, I don't see that as a "what if," but an established fact. One is entirely more grounded in habitual hounding of falsities than the other. Are both parties guilty of swinging the truth? Sure. One happens to be entirely more vocal in the matter, and is a documented truth.

I would love to see the documentation on this if it is readily available. I am sure the "minority" party is generally more vocal than the one in power, but then again that's politics is it not? So, if it is truly "documented truth", please enlighten me, I am sure it's an interesting read.

I wouldn't suggest that anything accomplished in the M.E. couldn't have benefited from actions or measures taken before, but it seemed like there was an attempt at immediate dismissal because of past influence, action. Apologies for placing you in that camp, as it's obviously the wrong one.

I am not saying only one group or another deserves credit, if anyone deserves the MOST credit it's the military. However, both Presidents played a role in taking SH and OBL down, IMO though, the role they played isn't is smaller than the credit they get. Keep in mind though, they DO deserve some level of credit simply due to the fact that they would also receive the brunt of the blame.

lol..I know bush signed signed the agreement. Did you read my post? All troops were to be out of Iraqi cities by 2009 and out of the country by 2011. And before that there was UN security council resolution 1790 and referendums were held in 2010, so don't act like Dubya did all the work with that signing. Its not that easy my friend. Dubya doesn't get any credit for pulling anyone out of Iraq in my book. Obama is the one who outlined and carried out the pullout plan. Where was Dubya's exit strategy? He didn't have one. 5 long years and he never came up with anything. This isn't the pot calling the kettle black. I gave him the only credit that he deserves in that whole entire event, and that is the huge error he made in invading in the first place. That's probably the reason that he hardly ever never shows his mug anymore? And we wonder why none of the Republicans that were in the primarys never mentioned his name.

So, you are saying no matter what happened prior to his term, Obama deserves all the credit for pulling most of the troops out of Iraq? Ok....

[plustheharm]

I would love to see the documentation on this if it is readily available. I am sure the "minority" party is generally more vocal than the one in power, but then again that's politics is it not? So, if it is truly "documented truth", please enlighten me, I am sure it's an interesting read.

Don't insult other members. ~Blacksite

That was hardly an "insult" worthy of an edited post. A member tried to call someone out, making up something completely false, and we can't speak of it? It was a pretty tame comment.

Please.

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[weskurtz81]

Don't insult other members. ~Blacksite

That was hardly an "insult" worthy of an edited post. A member tried to call someone out, making up something completely false, and we can't speak of it? It was a pretty tame comment.

Please.

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I didn't try to call you out or make anything up, but maybe I misunderstood the point you were trying to convey. You said one is more more vocal in the matter and is a documented truth. The way I perceived that is it's documented that one is more vocal than the other, if I misunderstood what you were attempting to say then I apologize. Please clarify your statement if did indeed take your comment the wrong way.

[Blacksite]

Edit.

[plustheharm]

Sorry, West, I was referring to the other poster. Suppose I'll leave it at that.

And I was only going to take it as far as I needed to, BS. It was a reference to the 1999 film The Matrix;

"You take the blue pill – the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill – you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."

If you'd like to remove the entire post, that's fine. I admitted it was an unnecessary jab, but I wasn't exactly calling anyone an idiot. He seems like a smart dude, was just a shame he chose to pull something like that out.

And I was speaking to the track record of the right, as a whole, as they are notorious for their spin. That's what I was referring to when I said it wasn't so much a "what if," but a fact. And it is. I shouldn't be expected to provide some extensive documentation to something that is seen and recognized by so many, even those that help make up the party. That's the only reason I was poking fun of the quote by the other poster. It wasn't necessary though.

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[btbam]

I think Ron Paul has pretty effectivly popularized the idea of "ending the fed." among republicans. The only thing is, i see them shout end the fed but don't offer any alternative. This author does and i wanted to get peoples opinions on: 1 ending the fed, 2 what to replace it with, 3 will the Suffolk system work.

http://mises.org/daily/4902

ADDENDUM: President Obama recently endorsed same sex marriage after VP Biden did so earlier this week. On a personal note, i don't care about gay marraige, i think they should have every right heterosexuals have...BUT...the gvt. has no place regulating marriage at all, gay or straight. Let the people of each state have a ballot inititive. I'm confident the states will make the right choice

[The Black Wolf]

ADDENDUM: President Obama recently endorsed same sex marriage after VP Biden did so earlier this week. On a personal note, i don't care about gay marraige, i think they should have every right heterosexuals have...BUT...the gvt. has no place regulating marriage at all, gay or straight. Let the people of each state have a ballot inititive. I'm confident the states will make the right choice

I actually agree with this.

Let the states decide, more so, let the people decide.

[Morganator]

I think Ron Paul has pretty effectivly popularized the idea of "ending the fed." among republicans. The only thing is, i see them shout end the fed but don't offer any alternative. This author does and i wanted to get peoples opinions on: 1 ending the fed, 2 what to replace it with, 3 will the Suffolk system work.

http://mises.org/daily/4902

Here's my opinion on ending the FED. I say end it and pass a constitutional amendment forbidding the forming of any central bank and the use of fiat money, forever. Replace the system we have now and return to the gold and silver standard. Amend article 1, section 8 to allow other precious metals like palladium and platinum to also be used as currency with fixed weights and standards that are the same for gold and silver. Introduce worldwide competition as well as domestic competition and get rid of the managed and planned economic regulations regarding interest rates and just allow the free market to decide what is best. Lastly, try Bernanke his cohorts and any and all politicians who voted yes on the debt ceiling raises for high treason.

[Sub-stance1]

Michele Bachmann to withdraw her Swiss citizenship during her bid for re-election


http://news.yahoo.com/michele-bachma...203727195.html

Pretty ironic coming from the party that questioned the president's citizenship.

[btbam]

Michele Bachmann to withdraw her Swiss citizenship during her bid for re-election


http://news.yahoo.com/michele-bachma...203727195.html

Pretty ironic coming from the party that questioned the president's citizenship.

Taking jabs at republicans again I see. You do realize it was a fringe element NOT the party which questioned obamas citizenship right?or does that not fit into your narative that all republicans are crazy?

[Sub-stance1]

Taking jabs at republicans again I see. You do realize it was a fringe element NOT the party which questioned obamas citizenship right?or does that not fit into your narative that all republicans are crazy?

fringe element....riiiiiight...lol The party sure as hell didn't repudiate that didn't they? Those birthers are still out there. Fox news sure as hell believed it...lol



Typical Hannity....lol



As for Bachman, she set herself up for that one. Someone who claims to be so American, then becomes a swiss citizen, then realizes it wasn't a smart move because she want to be reelected...lol

[DayWalker]

anyone else following this?

http://news.yahoo.com/why-dont-know-...--finance.html

I'm still getting up to speed myself...

[btbam]

Yup. Add that to jp morgans credit reduction and know that the bailout was a great idea...bailout asshats when they fuck up, and they know they can do whatever with no risk.

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[weskurtz81]

anyone else following this?

http://news.yahoo.com/why-dont-know-...--finance.html

I'm still getting up to speed myself...

Interesting read, thanks for posting.

fringe element....riiiiiight...lol The party sure as hell didn't repudiate that didn't they? Those birthers are still out there.

So, every case where the Democratic party didn't repudiate something that means they supported it?

[weskurtz81]

Edit: Double Post

[MATRIX 2]

[Sub-stance1]

Mitt Romney supporters, Ron Paul partisans brawl at Oklahoma GOP convention

http://news.yahoo.com/mitt-romney-su...040405948.html

[weskurtz81]

Mitt Romney supporters, Ron Paul partisans brawl at Oklahoma GOP convention


http://news.yahoo.com/mitt-romney-su...040405948.html

Yup, people can lose their minds when it comes to politics.