General Politics Thread

[weskurtz81]

oh. please.

About what I expected... the gif was a nice touch though.

Like I said, if you disagree on my takes on Obama's and Romney's history and which would look like a better Presidential candidate based on that history, please feel free to state your thoughts....

[DayWalker]

Michelle Bachmann = the gift that keeps on giving...

[Sub-stance1]

Michelle Bachmann = the gift that keeps on giving...

Yea, i always thought she was a little batshit crazy. Some of the stuff she says is just hilarious.

[holyravioli]

Ross Perot!

[$Greatness$]

Tell me about the Bilderberg Group oh wise political people.

[weskurtz81]

Crazy to think that even if the gains on 13 trillion was taxed at 30%, it still wouldn't put a major dent in our deficit. Just goes to show you, spending is as much of a problem as anything.

[btbam]

In the "There's always more and it's always worse" department:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...fshore-economy



tl;dr:



Cue the conservative apologists saying "oh it won't make a dent!" - the same ones who freak out at mere millions going towards things like planned parenthood or other social services.

Can you blame them for moving money around? They are taxed to oblivion as is. Did you know the top 1% pays 40% of the taxes collected in this country. But you just want them to pay their fair share right? Bleeding them dry just isn't enough. The bottom 50 don't even pay anything. That's fair apparently. Oh. Btw, the GOP isn't opposed to money going to social services, but planned parenthood has that whole killing babies thing which seems to hurt it's brand name with people who value life.

[DayWalker]

Can you blame them for moving money around? They are taxed to oblivion as is. Did you know the top 1% pays 40% of the taxes collected in this country. But you just want them to pay their fair share right? Bleeding them dry just isn't enough. The bottom 50 don't even pay anything. That's fair apparently. Oh. Btw, the GOP isn't opposed to money going to social services, but planned parenthood has that whole killing babies thing which seems to hurt it's brand name with people who value life.

effective tax rate of 15% = oblivion???

[btbam]

its not 15, its slightly above 30

[DayWalker]

its not 15, its slightly above 30

um no. the top 1% makes most of their money through investments. Tax-ed at 15%

Hence Mittens tax rate of 17%. or whatever the hell it is.

edit... 14%

[DayWalker]

And hey- can we stop making the claim that the bottom 50% don't pay ANY taxes...

... they don't pay any federal taxes... and for the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of that 50%... the reason they don't pay taxes is a result of tax breaks (not the term I am looking for... whatever... deductions? no that's not it either)...

... ie they pay taxes but they end up getting the money back as a result of rules in the tax code... (mortgage insurance, children, etc)

so TAX BREAKS... is really why some people get off paying so little

[Bigdoggy]

lol you guys do know it's not just the rich he wants to tax but everyones taxes will go up. basically by next year whoever doesn't have medical will have to pay $1,000 a year tax, they call it a tax but it's actually a $1,000 fine for not having medical, if some of you are in favor of this....well, that's pretty lame and it's time to use common sense o.O. some of you guys really need to stop repeating what others say and start researching the crap. graphs and charts don't make it believable o.O

Obama is an asshole, it's that fuckin simple. time to get real here. honestly, it's unbelievable how people try to justify this bullshit. ugh

plus, I've also had tax breaks, as a matter a fact and I'm not even "upper class" really. point being is some of you guys try to justify more taxes for the rich when in reality it wont solve the damn problem. in order to solve such a problem each rich person would have to pay taxes of like 5,000 people, which by the way is not going to happen.

lets not forget either that what I said above was just the federal taxes. lets look at the state taxes and what rich people pay shall we? lower class workers living in a lower class house pay anywhere from $900 - $1,700 a year in property taxes (that's for the state), I myself pay $5400. A rich person owning a $10,000,000 will be paying anywhere from $75,000 a year to $150,000 a year just for the property taxes. in the state if you make over a certain amount your percentage goes up. See, some of you guys don't even know what in the heck you are talking about when it comes to taxes. you just look at the federal taxes, not the damn state taxes and that's every time I see this debate. LOL

so if someone is upperclass, makes 100,000 a year (that is upper class) in the state their percentage goes up, but also with their house they pay a huge property tax, then add the 15 or 20% federal tax, maybe more because the upperish mid classes end up paying their taxes quarterly, not once a year which is another thing this debate completely failed to put out there.

[DayWalker]

Obama and the federal government don't control state taxes.

...at least not directly... I guess you could make the argument that as federal tax dollars disappear... states have to tax more...

and yes- I agree with a tax/fee on people who don't purchase healthcare... as does the supreme court... soooooo....

[btbam]

lol you guys do know it's not just the rich he wants to tax but everyones taxes will go up. basically by next year whoever doesn't have medical will have to pay $1,000 a year tax, they call it a tax but it's actually a $1,000 fine for not having medical, if some of you are in favor of this....well, that's pretty lame and it's time to use common sense o.O. some of you guys really need to stop repeating what others say and start researching the crap. graphs and charts don't make it believable o.O

Obama is an asshole, it's that fuckin simple. time to get real here. honestly, it's unbelievable how people try to justify this bullshit. ugh

plus, I've also had tax breaks, as a matter a fact and I'm not even "upper class" really. point being is some of you guys try to justify more taxes for the rich when in reality it wont solve the damn problem. in order to solve such a problem each rich person would have to pay taxes of like 5,000 people, which by the way is not going to happen.

lets not forget either that what I said above was just the federal taxes. lets look at the state taxes and what rich people pay shall we? lower class workers living in a lower class house pay anywhere from $900 - $1,700 a year in property taxes (that's for the state), I myself pay $5400. A rich person owning a $10,000,000 will be paying anywhere from $75,000 a year to $150,000 a year just for the property taxes. in the state if you make over a certain amount your percentage goes up. See, some of you guys don't even know what in the heck you are talking about when it comes to taxes. you just look at the federal taxes, not the damn state taxes and that's every time I see this debate. LOL

so if someone is upperclass, makes 100,000 a year (that is upper class) in the state their percentage goes up, but also with their house they pay a huge property tax, then add the 15 or 20% federal tax, maybe more because the upperish mid classes end up paying their taxes quarterly, not once a year which is another thing this debate completely failed to put out there.

Not to nitpick too much because you do raise a valid point about state and local taxes but I think you oversimplify things a little and misrepresent the tax itself. The property tax in a district is created by assessing the value of the house and aggregating that across all properties in the district to come up with an effective tax rate which is then levied on the property. That tax can be added into the mortgage payment and is paid throughout the year. It is mostly local govts. That use this tax like counties municipalities or school districts not the state. The state gets it's revenue primarily from the sales tax. This hold true for most states except Florida which has no sale tax if I remeber corectly only property tax for state and local revenue. Also why it got hit so hard when the housing bubble burst because it's revenue was tied so strongly to the value of property.

[Bigdoggy]

Not to nitpick too much because you do raise a valid point about state and local taxes but I think you oversimplify things a little and misrepresent the tax itself. The property tax in a district is created by assessing the value of the house and aggregating that across all properties in the district to come up with an effective tax rate which is then levied on the property. That tax can be added into the mortgage payment and is paid throughout the year. It is mostly local govts. That use this tax like counties municipalities or school districts not the state. The state gets it's revenue primarily from the sales tax. This hold true for most states except Florida which has no sale tax if I remeber corectly only property tax for state and local revenue. Also why it got hit so hard when the housing bubble burst because it's revenue was tied so strongly to the value of property.

well here in Minnesota a certain percentage is on the property itself too. for example. Houses on lake minnetonka, a one bedroom house and the property taxes are over $4500 a year. that's lake property to be more expensive, now after a certain percentage here I believe the houses then take the rest. so a one bedroom house, a small house with a $4500 property tax, then you get the $10 million dollar house which gets 75k up to $150k in property taxes. but it still added tax and quite frankly I find the state and local taxes a bit more disturbing. the federal tax itself is just plane dumb but the state and local taxes ugh, it's those taxes that will rip your paychecks apart.

[$Greatness$]

I heard that it doesn't state anywhere in the law that we must pay taxes. Confirm or deny

[Bigdoggy]

Obama and the federal government don't control state taxes.

...at least not directly... I guess you could make the argument that as federal tax dollars disappear... states have to tax more...

and yes- I agree with a tax/fee on people who don't purchase healthcare... as does the supreme court... soooooo....

I don't see why you would agree with that. If a person doesn't want it, then it's his right to not have medical. it's not your business or anyone elses business but that persons own choice. So within this post you just posted as well as other linked posts. I can safely say that you want a government that will hold your hand and be your mommy every step of the way. you know, If you fight hard enough they will also burp you. ugh

Pretty soon the government will be handing out dribble bibs, but I guess some people would love that because they can't seem to wipe their own chin. at least back up why you agree with it. see, people say this and that but thats all, they are basically "singing birds" on a government purch, but when you get a person to think clearly enough they don't seem to find the answer as to why forcing such a tax/fine is a good idea. it's the dumbest idea I have ever heard and since you brought up "the supreme court thinks so too" part of your comment, it's ridiculous. so basically have just thrown out there "if the government, federal, supreme court says it's good for me, then I agree", "if they say it's a good idea then I agree". This mindset is so dangerous and if you look at history you would see that they don't always make the right choices and this includes the supreme court.

by the way, my previous post was very clear and you somehow managed to twist it, read it again cause it's obvious you didn't pay any attention.


so now we put more of the pieces together and now we have a bigger problem after taxes. Not only will the taxes for the rich go up, but now you have agreed without knowing that everyones taxes will go up including the rich. on top of that, Obama is trying to create jobs but at the same time taxing big companies which are moving out of the country because it's going to get even more expensive. But on top of that, normal bills will start to raise in price. now, while this so called "AWESOME" taxing the rich idea is agreed upon by many, they have completely ignored everything else. bravo to some of you for really doing your research. LOL I am going to sit back now and watch it all crumble down because some of these ideas are just insane and the only people within the presidents little group as well as the precious supreme court are obviously still living 100 years in the past, if not more.

-Tax the rich (the rich also includes big jobs) they move out to go to another country.

-lower and middle classes taxes raise up a bit

-now you have a $1,000 tax/fine (this fine will include lower to middle class) remember that a lot of poorer people wont be able to afford this with the cost of living as well. if they can't afford it, they will be penalized even more. nice job o.O

-since everyones taxes are raising up and with the rich getting a bigger tax increase on them (this will include corporations) you will see our monthly electric bills getting an obvious increase. the fact that people overlooked this shows they are voting for stuff they have no clue about since they didn't read the entire thing or pay any attention to what will happen around some of these bills if they pass as well as government programs.

for lower to lower/mid classes driving to work from great distances, remember that gas prices haven't went down and they wont if they keep on ignoring it like they have been for the past few years now. I see another tax hike for everyone pretty soon, while the percentage for the rich will go up more (which wont really help anyway) everyones taxes will still go up a percentage. when all this happens the housing market will take another hit. it will be like abunch of big waves crashing at once.

[DayWalker]

I don't see why you would agree with that. If a person doesn't want it, then it's his right to not have medical. it's not your business or anyone elses business but that persons own choice. So within this post you just posted as well as other linked posts. I can safely say that you want a government that will hold your hand and be your mommy every step of the way. you know, If you fight hard enough they will also burp you. ugh

true. it is a choice. But when that choice drives up the healthcare of everyone else... you lose that choice.
ie- when someone without coverage inevitably gets sick of injured and gets charged 500$ for an x-ray, $300 for a regiment of antibiotics, or simply just drops by the ER.... and then decide to not to pay... or can't pay... everyone else eats the cost.

Very similar to why 50/50 states require some form of car insurance. When you don't have it you fuck things up for everyone else.

And I'm not sure how forcing free loaders to pay a fee for services that they WILL make use of = I want the government to hold MY hand and be MY mommy. I pay for MY health insurance. I don't leech off the system. The only people who are influenced by the fee/fine/tax are people who can afford to and decide not to. THESE people drive up the cost of healthcare for EVERYONE else. Poor people receive tax credits (deductions) to help cover their costs. DO YOUR RESEARCH.


The rest of you post in just garbage so I won't even address it.

edit----

except to say that as I support ending all of the unpaid for Bush tax cuts that were never meant to be permanent... all your whining about "it effects the middle class" is a moot point.

[weskurtz81]

except to say that as I support ending all of the unpaid for Bush tax cuts that were never meant to be permanent... all your whining about "it effects the middle class" is a moot point.

Why can't we just.... pay for them?

[Bigdoggy]

true. it is a choice. But when that choice drives up the healthcare of everyone else... you lose that choice.
ie- when someone without coverage inevitably gets sick of injured and gets charged 500$ for an x-ray, $300 for a regiment of antibiotics, or simply just drops by the ER.... and then decide to not to pay... or can't pay... everyone else eats the cost.

Very similar to why 50/50 states require some form of car insurance. When you don't have it you fuck things up for everyone else.

And I'm not sure how forcing free loaders to pay a fee for services that they WILL make use of = I want the government to hold MY hand and be MY mommy. I pay for MY health insurance. I don't leech off the system. The only people who are influenced by the fee/fine/tax are people who can afford to and decide not to. THESE people drive up the cost of healthcare for EVERYONE else. Poor people receive tax credits (deductions) to help cover their costs. DO YOUR RESEARCH.


The rest of you post in just garbage so I won't even address it.

edit----

except to say that as I support ending all of the unpaid for Bush tax cuts that were never meant to be permanent... all your whining about "it effects the middle class" is a moot point.

See again, you have no idea. people are still going to be paying. o.O from now on I am ignoring most of your posts because you are obviously not studying any of it, you look up on the internet, see something that validates a partial point of yours and you repeat, I can tell. LOL you don't really go in depth with anything which is how I know this.

[Morganator]

I heard that it doesn't state anywhere in the law that we must pay taxes. Confirm or deny

Article 1: Section 8, Amendments 9 and 10 are the only valid laws considering taxation at the federal level. The 16th Amendment completely ignores these three references and is therefore unconstitutional.

[DayWalker]

Why can't we just.... pay for them?

I'd be ok with that. I'd rather wait until our fiscal house is in order before we make temporary tax cuts permanent.

See again, you have no idea. people are still going to be paying. o.O from now on I am ignoring most of your posts because you are obviously not studying any of it, you look up on the internet, see something that validates a partial point of yours and you repeat, I can tell. LOL you don't really go in depth with anything which is how I know this.

good. one less incoherent ditto head to address.

forum members on your side, albeit politely, are even correcting your nonsense

come back when you learn how to articulate an argument.

[Valefor]

I thought this was quite funny:

Mitt Romney's disastrous British trip continued Thursday when, according to The Huffington Post UK, he "caused amusement" by saying he had spent a great day in the "backside" of Downing Street, rather than the back garden.

In another faux pas, Romney announced his meeting with MI6, the U.K. Secret Intelligence Service whose existence was only acknowledged by the British government in 1994.

"I appreciated the insights and perspectives of the leaders of the government here and opposition here as well as the head of MI6," he told reporters.

MI6 was mum about the meeting, according to the Wall Street Journal. "[MI6 Chief] Sir John Sawers meets with lots of people," said an aide in the British foreign press office, "but we don’t give a running commentary of any of these meetings."

London Mayor Boris Johnson hit back at Romney's comments about the Summer Games before a crowd of 60,000 in Hyde Park. "There is a guy called Mitt Romney who wants to know if we are ready. Yes, we are," he declared.

Romney also seemed to break the longstanding rule for U.S. politicians not to criticize the president overseas. At a fundraiser for American expats, he reportedly said, "I'm looking forward to the bust of Winston Churchill being in the Oval Office again," referring to the White House returning the artwork to the British Embassy in early 2009. President Barack Obama replaced it with a bust of Abraham Lincoln.

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1705657.html

[Sub-stance1]

Jim Greer, Former Florida Republican Chairman, Says Party Officials Discussed Suppressing Black Vote

In a lawsuit filed against the Republican Party in Florida, former chairman Jim Greer said that party officials discussed ways in which they could prevent blacks from voting, the Tampa Bay Times reports.Greer alleged that party officials, some of whom he called "whack-a-do's," discussed suppressing the black vote in a December 2009 meeting.
"I was upset because the political consultants and staff were talking about voter suppression and keeping blacks from voting. It had been one of those days,'' he said. Greer also said that the party wanted to oust former governor Charlie Crist, a Republican, in part because Crist appointed a liberal black judge to the state's Supreme Court.
Greer, however, has an axe to grind: he is facing corruption charges on six felonies,including money laundering and grand theft stemming from allegations that he ran a shell company that improperly funneled party money to him.
Gov. Rick Scott of Florida, a Republican, has endorsed a voter I.D. law in the state, as well as a purge that its supporters say is meant to keep non-citizens from illegally casting a ballot. But critics say that voter fraud almost never happens, that disproportionate numbers of the people purged are Democrats or Hispanics who are legally eligible to vote, and that the purge does not leave them sufficient time to re-register in the event that they were accidentally kicked off the voter rolls.
Earlier this week, Crist said that Rick Scott, who succeeded him as governor, called the state's voter I.D. laws and its controversial voter purge "unconscionable."
“The concern really is on sort of a closing the door on democracy,” Crist told MSNBC on Wednesday.

Source:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1710700.html

[weskurtz81]

Just remember, "if you have a business, you didn't build that, somebody else made that happen"...

Source: Barack Obama