My concept for PS4

[mini E]

Firstly, I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section (maybe we need a dedicated ps4 board?). I checked the other ps4 threads I could find. Feel free to move it wherever it needs to go.
Also, if this is too long, I included a TLDR near the bottom.



So I was thinking about several opinions I read from various analysts and developers about the next generation consoles. From what I have gathered, most people aren't expecting a large gap in the technical power of current and next-gen hardware (or at least not as much as the last gap). So then I thought about what the next PlayStation would be like, which then reminded me of when I first saw the PS3 at Sony's e3 2005 presentation. During the press conference, Sony showed a prototype PS3 with two HDMI outputs that would presumably be used for multitasking, screen extension, or even gaming.

I always thought that was a cool concept, and was sad to see that it didn't make it to the final product. So from there, I brainstormed all of the possibilities and implications of this technology. After a decent amount of research, I wrote the following; which is a sort of blueprint (which I admit is quite rough) of this concept.





---LAUNCH SPECS---

MAIN:

-4 GB DDR3 RAM (3gb usable for developers, up to 256MB dedicated to OS, 768+ MB for multitasking)
-Two 3.2ghz 45nm Cell processors
-160 GB 2.5" SATA HDD (upgradable)
-512MB flash memory (for firmware, etc.)
-NVIDIA SLI Setup:
-GTX 460 based
-1GB dedicated GDDR5 RAM (x2)
-3D Vision Surround Compatible (thanks to D3seeker)
-PhysX
-Open GL 4.1
-12x BD-ROM drive

I/O:

-2 HDMI 1.4a out
-1 optical out
-1 AV Multi (PS2) out
-1 Ethernet
-6 USB (4 front, 2 "sleep and charge" rear)
-wireless B/G/N
-Bluetooth 4.0 (support for eight controllers)



---PSLEGACY---

Optional accessory that contains PS2 hardware to allow for full backward compatibility while still accessing PSN and PS4 features. 100 USD (80 in PS4 bundle)

Features:
-fully compatible with all PS2 compatible hardware and software (including memory cards and multitap. Ports same as PS2)
-can access PS4 HDD, downloaded PSone and PS2 titles, USB ports, virtual memory cards, and PS3 compatible controllers
-full upscaling
-connects via (2 needed?) USB [sleep and charge in back allows unit to stay on and wake up PS4]
-Units for different territories can be purchased
-PS button on unit to compensate for PS2 controller
-may be used separately as standalone PS2 (traditional playstation av output on unit-allows for lightguns to be used)
-i/o: power, (2?) USB, 2 PS controller ports, 2 memory card slots, av out

---INCLUDED IN PS4 BOX---

-PS4 system
-dualshock 3 controller (what else is needed?)
-power cable (3 ft)
-USB cable (6 ft)
-HDMI cable (6 ft)
-Ethernet cable (10 ft)
-demo disc
-promotional item(s)
-manual
-PSlegacy + power cable (included in separate SKU)


---COST BREAKDOWN---
(incomplete)

Cell processor (x2) 74 USD
Dualshock 3 21 USD
160 GB HDD ?
12x BD Drive ?
nVIDIA GPU (x2) ?
PSU ?
Bluetooth/WLAN ?
I/O ?
RAM/Flash Memory ?
Circuitry, connections, etc. ?
Chassis/Cooling ?
Included cables ?
Packaging/Paper Materials ?
Assembly ?
Shipping ?



Help from http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/New...-3-Design.aspx

---SOFTWARE---

MULTITASKING


Any task can be sent to a second TV/audio setup, allowing multiple users to access the system at one time i.e. One player plays a game while another browses the internet or watches a video. This also allows for players to set up the system for multiple rooms for LAN party style gameplay. This is accomplished by a thin and unobtrusive transparent menu (aptly named PSmenu) located at the bottom of the screen that appears when a player holds the PS button. This menu contains the same functions as holding down the PS button on a PS3. Several different displayed buttons correspond to different tasks that can be performed. Once a button is pushed, the menu changes accordingly, but never changes shape. One button changes the menu to display the following options: clone this display (which sends the audio and video currently output through the current set up simultaneously to the second set up. Unless allowed by the developer, this is unavailable in PS4 games), extend display (which extends the view across both screens in a 32:9 format),
new display (which opens up the XMB on another setup for use of the system independent from the first) and close display (only available if two displays are active, this will save any unsaved data and return the system to the other display).When not playing a PS3 or PSlegacy title, each connected controller is asked to login to a profile (guest is an option. Players are also able to become guests of a certain player). This is also the way in which controllers are set to which screen. Note: unless allowed by the developer, only one PS4 game may be played at once.

XMB WITH IMPROVEMENTS (anything not noted should be assumed same as PS3, some existing features may be repeated hereafter)


-accessible at ANY time
-much more media and device compatibility
-fully compatible with PS3 games and hardware
-PS3/PSlegacy games upscaled and enhanced
-auto read message upon PS button press
-dynamic normalizer
-background installs
-ability to label friends with tags and group/sort by tags
-audio/video multi-out
-notification settings (type, size, font, background/transparency, sound, location, duration, reminders, etc)
-full file modification (copy, paste, rename, multi-select, etc)
-more sorting options
-user passwords and password protected folders/files
-easier and deeper theme control.
1.Try out themes from PS store
2.separate sound scheme selector
3.more fonts to select (with XL font available)
4.sortable (by premium/custom/free, date, dynamic/static, name, user created tag)
-folders with more content display differently (live view?)
-photo viewer uses live view for zoom
-Slideshow themes (like windows 7)
-video thumbnails generated automatically (can be cached?)
-users can allocate cache (and virtual memory?) reservation for XMB data
-download list with filters
-downloadable and unlockable visualizations
-interactive tutorial on 1st boot-up (gives trophies as incentive?)
-interactive help/manual mode (similar to tutorial)
-group voice chat at any time
-video chat at any time in XMB (background or PiP)
-auto-syncing trophies
-universal game screenshot function (can be posted on profile?)
-built-in game record function (for supported games)
-easy save data backup utility
-DLNA- the PS4 can share content across a network (with 802.11n!)
-deeper PSN profile
1.More info under “about me”
2.Recently Played/Completed list
3.User can display 5 most prized trophies instead of most recent
4.User can upload an image to their profile viewable by all players
-Applications (separate column? all downloadable)
a.Facebook
b.calculator
c.YouTube
d.Netflix/VUDU/iPlayer/Hulu
e.Skype
f.Yahoo messenger/ Google Talk
g.Mail
h.twitter
i.PS.Blog/Share
j.Photo Viewer
k.Word Processor
l.Vidzone
m.Music Unlimited
n.PlayTV
o.Update checker
p.Flickr
q.lbp.me
r.EyeCreate (or new video capture software)
-improved web browser
1.full keyboard and mouse support (with right click shortcuts)
2.Flash 10
3.Java
4.multiple windows open at once
5.increased memory capacity
6.can run in background
7.utilizes live view zoom function
8.cache, bookmark (import/export support), window, view settings
9.Access to pseye
-PSmenu: a thin and unobtrusive transparent menu located at the bottom of the screen that appears when a player holds the PS button. This menu contains the same functions as holding down the PS button on a PS3. Several different displayed buttons correspond to different tasks that can be performed. Once a button is pushed, the menu changes accordingly, but never changes shape.



---Miscellaneous Notes/Questions---

1. This device will obviously require a lot of power, which will have a huge effect on cost and increases risk of overheating. I need a way to overcome this. Would an external power supply solve this?
2. I need someone who is more knowledgeable to help determine a rough estimate of manufacturing cost. I would like to achieve a 500 USD price tag. Selling at a loss is acceptable for a year or two, but is discouraged.
3. PS3 game multitasking is possible, but the system only has one optical drive, so a second copy will need to be on the hard drive. This would push/require more downloadable PS3 titles.
4. Can the Bluetooth module handle 8 controllers? Is it possible for the DS3 to recognize it is an eighth controller? Can it display the 4th, 3rd, and 1st light simultaneously?
5. The PSLegacy would also push sales of PSOne classics and push demand for more downloadable PSOne and PS2 titles
6. If anyone catches anything that is unclear or sees something technologically unfeasible, please feel free to point it out.
7. I obtained my research from various internet sources that I forgot to take note of, but if anyone wants this information, I can point them in the right direction
8. I thought about developer's and the gaming community's gripes with the PS3 (and admittedly, some of my own) and implemented my solutions to the problems.
9. Could the dual monitors be used for 3d of some sort?
10. Could the HDMI function as a switch?
11. How much would an additional optical port cost? Would it be necessary?
12. PSVita may also be used as second display. It may also function as a controller with the paired screen cloned to the device. This can also replicate anything the Wii U can, but much better
13. There could also be a bundle including an additional controller and a dual monitor setup (see attached files) that could easily separate (and be used as a display in another room) and attach in a manner that appears to be a single 32:9 screen. This bundle can include a game that takes advantage of every combination of set up: local and online multiplayer on separate screens, 32:9 gameplay, and one screen showing the game and another displaying things such as game data/rear view/scoreboard/highlights of last match or kills of the week/ game map/target objective/different game camera/opponent's PSeye/partner's screen (think portal 2)



TLDR: my design of the PS4 utilizes upgraded PS3 technology (namely two cell processors, more RAM, a faster Blu ray drive, two GPUs, and advanced software) for ease of development, low production cost, and “future-proofing", but mainly to allow players to connect multiple TVs for increased screen size, advanced multitasking, and eventually to allow for next generation game experiences beyond today's imagination.


I would like to know your thoughts or questions about this concept. Again, if I missed anything please let me know. Thanks for reading!

[BoyBettaKnow]

I don't get it...


BBK Is Tapatalking

[Chulo]

in other words you want ps4 to be a disgustingly more expensive device than ps3?
one that can handle all the functions that the original phat did but with added features......

boy you'd be lucky enough if backwards compatibility even returned in the form of digital distribution, only to realize that not all ps2/ps3 games are even on the list.....

only way how I could ever see that happening is if microsoft released their console with a (similar) set up. at least they are willing to sell a monster like that for cheap :P

other then that you might as well buy a high end pc. :/

[mini E]

in other words you want ps4 to be a disgustingly more expensive device than ps3?
one that can handle all the functions that the original phat did but with added features......

Added features? Yes, but the tech in this will produce much more powerful next-gen games as well.

boy you'd be lucky enough if backwards compatibility even returned in the form of digital distribution, only to realize that not all ps2/ps3 games are even on the list.....

My logic behind it is that if consumers get a taste, more will be vocal about the consumer demand...

other then that you might as well buy a high end pc. :/

it basically is a pc replacer, which is what sony has been talking about, but never actually made. It seems to me like this is where consoles will eventually go

I don't get it...

what don't you get?

[TDbank24]

I'll buy the PS4 no matter what it comes as because i know it's going to be the best console next generation and dominate on all fronts.

[Rapture]

I'll buy the PS4 no matter what it comes as because i know it's going to be the best console next generation and dominate on all fronts.

That... um, hm. Alright then.

[chriharr]

I love all the work you put into that system spec paper, it's everything I could have hoped for to tell you the truth, I pray that or similar will be put into the new PS4 console, and I love the two parallel Cell Processor idea, 4GB RAM would be beneficial beyond this generation but 2K and 4K resolution graphics may need 6-8GB of RAM or more to function properly especially with all the games processing going on in conjunction with the complex graphics rendering that will be happening, I think 1080P and support for dual screens will be more than enough for the next generation, otherwise HD TV's will become obsolete and they are just starting to become widely adopted around the world. 3D is really the next step and if that fails then we can start talking about 4K resolution in the home, think about most digital projection systems the cinema use are 2x4K projectors, there's no way we need that kind of presentation in the majority of our homes, it's way too expensive and space in even the most luxurious homes is limited to just a couple of meters.

The PS2 BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY device won't see the light of day I don't think, I don't see sony doing it, it's just not in their favour and they won't be making as much money if they didn't start dishing out digital downloads instead of dedicated B/C hardware. The device if it was made would have to be USB 3.0 compliant or Lightning Bolt type interface to be fast enough to be recognised as dedicated hardware and for the system to be able to process the load without much delay.


I would like to see a proper paid online service that is more affordable than XBOX Live, but is beyond superior. Crystal clear voice chat, 1 Free Full game per month, access to BETA's, a paid pass that allows you to access the entire back catalog of PS ONE and TWO titles.

[Equinoqs]

For a dream console, it sounds great. Having all of that being affordable is probably years off, but there are a lot of ideas in there that I think would be perfect for the next console. I'd go to Walmart and buy the PSlegacy THIS HOUR if I could.

[Fenix]

I'd say no, cause it would be WAY too much for my blood. It would make PS3s $600+ price look like a joke.

Tho any next console with full PS 1/2 playability i'd go for

[D3seeker]

Interesting.

I guess it's more of the initial unveil/ dev model. My gripes/ questions:

1. Why 2 cell processors? Cell development didn't stop at the PS3, unless they really are keeping details 'hush hush'
2. PSLegacy; basically a Special made PS2 that can attach to and access PS4 hardware features/acceleration ?
3. Log in as a guest to one profile or another; would one be able to log in with their own gamertag (as on 360) or would it still be a temporary 'guest profile'?
4. BD not BDXL?

[mini E]

I love all the work you put into that system spec paper, it's everything I could have hoped for to tell you the truth, I pray that or similar will be put into the new PS4 console, and I love the two parallel Cell Processor idea, 4GB RAM would be beneficial beyond this generation

Thank you

but 2K and 4K resolution graphics may need 6-8GB of RAM or more to function properly ...then we can start talking about 4K resolution in the home

Okay thank you. I was afraid of that; I'll remove it from the list. I just thought I'd look into it for future-proofing. When do you think it will become a standard (if you think it will)?

The PS2 BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY device won't see the light of day I don't think, I don't see sony doing it, it's just not in their favour and they won't be making as much money if they didn't start dishing out digital downloads instead of dedicated B/C hardware. The device if it was made would have to be USB 3.0 compliant or Lightning Bolt type interface to be fast enough to be recognised as dedicated hardware and for the system to be able to process the load without much delay.

But what if they did both? I think it has shown that there is demand for it. Case in point:

For a dream console, it sounds great. Having all of that being affordable is probably years off, but there are a lot of ideas in there that I think would be perfect for the next console. I'd go to Walmart and buy the PSlegacy THIS HOUR if I could.

First of all thanks. Second, case in point

I'd say no, cause it would be WAY too much for my blood. It would make PS3s $600+ price look like a joke.

Tho any next console with full PS 1/2 playability i'd go for

First, are you saying that it would cost too much? If so, how do you know?

I would like to see a proper paid online service that is more affordable than XBOX Live, but is beyond superior. Crystal clear voice chat, 1 Free Full game per month, access to BETA's, a paid pass that allows you to access the entire back catalog of PS ONE and TWO titles.

What if this was tacked on to PSPlus?

1. Why 2 cell processors? Cell development didn't stop at the PS3, unless they really are keeping details 'hush hush'

I'm not sure what you mean; are you saying why not make a more powerful cell instead of two? Mainly for cost and I would imagine i would be easier to multitask that way.

2. PSLegacy; basically a Special made PS2 that can attach to and access PS4 hardware features/acceleration ?

Exactly.

3. Log in as a guest to one profile or another; would one be able to log in with their own gamertag (as on 360) or would it still be a temporary 'guest profile'?

You could do both.

4. BD not BDXL?

I looked into many new Blu ray discs coming out and most are supposed to be playable on current devices with firmware upgrades. Wouldn't using a bdxl capable drive drive up the cost?

[gillmanjr]

All that processing power and only a 120 GB hard drive?

I think you need to top off your spec for this super console with a 1 TB SSD.

[D3seeker]

I'm not sure what you mean; are you saying why not make a more powerful cell instead of two? Mainly for cost and I would imagine i would be easier to multitask that way.
~
I looked into many new Blu ray discs coming out and most are supposed to be playable on current devices with firmware upgrades. Wouldn't using a bdxl capable drive drive up the cost?

1. I was under the impression (and still am) that development didn't stop with the PS3. With the recent announcement (have to dig it up) I feel there will probably be variations/ upgraded versions of the cell. Of course this is going off a crude assumption, meaning a new cell wouldn't be as expensive as the initial dive = upgrade. Also. more over wouldn't that cause yet more difficulty in dev work
To my dismay I've been having trouble finding anything on it so maybe so

2. A full BDXL drive would mean future proofing I suppose.
So I found the article however I may have been misguided. It seems a bit all over the place if you will and Sony hasn't said anything to my knowledge
http://www.psu.com/forums/threads/27...uture-Consoles - forum post
http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Gaming/...5C6F8A6?page=1 - source

I think the forum says what needs to be said on this. Sorry to be so misleading.

[ttech10]

All that processing power and only a 120 GB hard drive?

I think you need to top off your spec for this super console with a 1 TB SSD.

I thought the same, LOL. I've had two PS3s since the console launch and each one got a 500GB+ upgrade ASAP. With bulk prices that Sony would get I would want something like that released in the new generation system. At least do 320GB.

As for would I buy this? Yes, if I had the extreme amount of money that would likely be needed.

[AaronSOLDIER]

All it needs IMO is:

1. Full BC with PS1/2/3
2. At least 2GB of RAM
3. Much better graphics card
4. Maybe an improved CELL

TBH it doesn't need that much improving other than RAM. 3D and 1080P need to be standards next gen, no more sub HD games.

[rene2kx]

Problem is such a setup will rocket up the price. People were already moaning about the 600 usd launch price tag of ps3. Somehow people crave for the best technology at the lowest price. If sony does go with a 'heavy' setup, how many of you would be willing to pay 800 usd at launch? The setup the op mentions screams that expensive- dual hdmi 1.4 outputs, dual cell processors, 4 gb ram, 1 gb gddr5 ram, two nvidia cards, 8x bd drive and so on.

PS- Btw, all these ps4 speculative threads of late are futile and 'too early' cos you won't be seeing one before end of '13/'14. I'd say holiday '14.

[gillmanjr]

Problem is such a setup will rocket up the price. People were already moaning about the 600 usd launh price tag of ps3. Somehow people crave for the best technology at the lowest price. If sony does go with a 'heavy' setup, how many of you would be willing to pay 800 usd at launch? The setup the op mentions screams that expensive- dual hdmi 1.4 outputs, dual cell processors, 4 gb ram, 1 gb gddr5 ram, two nvidia cards, 8x bd drive and so on.

You're forgetting the 1 TB SSD that I mentioned, thats a must for this level of console. Might as well drive up the cost to over $2000, no one is going to buy it at $800 anyway.

[mini E]

[QUOTE=gillmanjr;5618038]All that processing power and only a 120 GB hard drive?
I used 120 because I thought it was the one used in the current models (which I changed to 160, so thanks for pointing it out :P) which could be mass produced for cost. I could also find the manufacturing cost easier.

I think you need to top off your spec for this super console with a 1 TB SSD.

Why would this even be necessary?
EDIT: I get it.

...each one got a 500GB+ upgrade ASAP. With bulk prices that Sony would get I would want something like that released in the new generation system. At least do 320GB.

As for would I buy this? Yes, if I had the extreme amount of money that would likely be needed.

Your post contains both my reply and my justification for it.

1. I was under the impression (and still am) that development didn't stop with the PS3. With the recent announcement (have to dig it up) I feel there will probably be variations/ upgraded versions of the cell. Of course this is going off a crude assumption, meaning a new cell wouldn't be as expensive as the initial dive = upgrade. Also. more over wouldn't that cause yet more difficulty in dev work
To my dismay I've been having trouble finding anything on it so maybe so

2. A full BDXL drive would mean future proofing I suppose.

Please try to find that articel. I'd really like to read it. You make a good point about the future-proofing. I'm just trying to prioritize. If the dominant future Blu ray disc requires a new drive, I'd definitely work around that, but I would think in the interest of keeping production cost down, Sony would back one that works on older devices.

All it needs IMO is:

1. Full BC with PS1/2/3
2. At least 2GB of RAM
3. Much better graphics card
4. Maybe an improved CELL

TBH it doesn't need that much improving other than RAM. 3D and 1080P need to be standards next gen, no more sub HD games.

I agree. To my knowledge, the cell and the RAM were the two things devs complained about most/blamed for problems.
That is where I began with my specs search. I'm no industry analyst but the way I see it, the most important things to keep in mind (in order):


1. Developer Friendly
2. Consumer demand
3. Cost

(in this order because if the system has "must-have" games, the fans will buy it, meaning there is a market for it. If the features are good enough, people will pay for them (not in all cases, but in general). If there is a market, developers will get over any sort of hurdles (ps2, anyone?) to make games for it. If you have these two, you have a dedicated fanbase. Then you can drop the price to bring in more customers and the cycle repeats.

Somehow people crave for the best technology at the lowest price. If sony does go with a 'heavy' setup, how many of you would be willing to pay 800 usd at launch?

Do you have a price breakdown? What would you change about my setup to bring down cost? If you had to develop a system that could deliver next-gen games but remain cheap, how would you do it? Would you even make a 'heavy' console? What do you think Sony would do?

gillmanjr, same question to you.

[mini E]

double post again :/

[daLa]

It would be awesome, yet so damn expensive because of the specs included.

[mini E]

It would be awesome, yet so damn expensive because of the specs included.

Thanks. I think the most expensive part would be the graphics. Would anyone be kind enough to give me a price estimate?

I think that I should change it to a 12x drive. I don't think it would make much of a price difference. It's a ROM drive anyway.

[D3seeker]

Aside from my issues, I would be gun hoe for this.
-___-
Damit ok, I can understand PSLEGACY being it's own stand alone entity though being one of those who were mad pissed when BC was taken out of the PS3 it would be nice if it was all built in. (yes like someone said, as the fat launch PS3) What are the prospects of the PS2 hardware being further downsized and thrown in? (I know it's not that simple but you get the picture)

[mini E]

What are the prospects of the PS2 hardware being further downsized and thrown in? (I know it's not that simple but you get the picture)

Well, I separated them because A) it would be easier and probably less costly to sony than developing software emulation B) people might already own a ps2 or wouldn't be interested in it C) With all the other things the case would surely be stuffed D) cut cost to something wasn't essential to the system

[D3seeker]

Cool. I just thought of something else
The PS3's blue tooth module connect 7 devices. 4 DS3/SIXAXIS and 3 other devices (headsets, keyboard, etc.) In you design it connect 1 more device though it sounds like there would be games for up to 8 players, or use of 2 accounts at once, with the possibility of 4 players each. In such a scenario that would leave out and other blue tooth devices. would one propose a bt module for more than 8 devices (if such exists) or possibly even dual blue tooth modules to compensate. Or would it be a waste/not cost effective whatsoever/ necessary?

[mini E]

Cool. I just thought of something else
The PS3's blue tooth module connect 7 devices. 4 DS3/SIXAXIS and 3 other devices (headsets, keyboard, etc.) In you design it connect 1 more device though it sounds like there would be games for up to 8 players, or use of 2 accounts at once, with the possibility of 4 players each. In such a scenario that would leave out and other blue tooth devices. would one propose a bt module for more than 8 devices (if such exists) or possibly even dual blue tooth modules to compensate. Or would it be a waste/not cost effective whatsoever/ necessary?

Well actually you can connect seven controllers plus devices. Yes ideally there would be support for 8 controllers. I was just curious if the DS3 can support this. I wouldn't imagine the workaround for this (if it's necessary. could it possible be a software issue? What about requiring some controllers to be wired?) wouldn't cost too much


EDIT:

I just ran across AMD's Eyefinity technology
(http://www.amd.com/US/PRODUCTS/TECHN...ty-videos.aspx)
Which uses one video card to display across multiple monitors. If something like this was implemented, it would greatly reduce the cost and probably also be easier on developers.