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    Is it wrong to be an Omnivore?

    I've been thinking about this topic for a while now. There are a few videos out there that show animal cruelty (Earthlings, Food Inc. etc.) and it gets me thinking...Why do I love chicken so much?

    I think meat is awesome and even if I have the choice to become a vegetarian and would probably be more healthy that way...and I do feel bad about the animals, whether killed in a humane way or not, I just can't shake off the feeling that it's wrong for me to do this.

    When is it appropriate to eat an animal? When you don't have a choice?

    I guess it was alright for our ancestors (thousands of years ago) to eat meat because they didn't have a choice. I'm sure there are still plenty of people around the world that still hunt for food to survive (tribes, fishermen).

    Is it fair to ask those people to become vegetarian? I don't know. I guess there's a point where your primitive senses take over for survival and in certain cases, no one would even ask you to stop eating your own.

    So I personally feel that organizations like PETA should not suggest people to become vegetarians however keep promoting humane treatment (as pets and killing for food or to euthanize), which I completely agree with.

    Do you think differently?

    Side topic: I don't believe in euthanizing an animal but I recently realized that you can either have it this way or you can have stray dogs everywhere biting people, giving them rabies and/or death. Or is it possible for animals to live among humans? (not as pets) What other way is there?

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    You tend to loose that feeling if you hunt, kill, gut, and eat all by yourself. I've done that plenty and now have no remorse for those little basterds.
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    I like animals and don't agree with killing them painfully and treating them badly. I realize that meat I eat possibly came from animals being treated badly. But I gotta eat and I'm sorry I can't jump to vegatarian. Not all but other anmials eat meat as well. I don't think a lion feels bad when she takes down a gazelle.

    Can humans survive on just vegies? Sure. I don't like what they do to the animals all the time but unfortunately it happens. As I side note I don't buy that people are vegatarians don't eat meat so they aren't killing anything. Vegatables are plants, plants are alive and you're killing all the same.

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    The food chain must follow its natural course. However, what we do is not natural. Torturing animals and breeding them inside cages with hormones and all kind of $#@! is something that should be stopped. We cannot live at the expense of sacrificing every living being in the planet, for they have the right to live and have a full animal life. I know it makes no difference since loads of people eat there everyday, but I never, EVER go to a big, fast food company or a big food chain company. McDonald's, Burger King, KFC, whatever you name it can go suck my **ck.
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    I'm a vegetarian for the reason of animal cruelty. It's disgusting how horribly they live and how they are killed.

    Saying that its okay to eat meat because most animals do is a cop out. Animals don't have the cognitive ability to understand that eating an animal is cruel. The need to survive and they do what they need to do to survive. Humans that have been educated can make a choice: consume animals that spend their lives (and death) in suffering, or switch to something better for you, the animal, and the environment.

    I've only been vegetarian for 3 months now, but I'm completely used to it. There are plenty of ways to be satisfied with what you eat and plenty of ways to get any nutrients you may miss out on. (Eggs, beans, etc.) You just have to make the decision.
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RAID3N. View Post
    Saying that its okay to eat meat because most animals do is a cop out. Animals don't have the cognitive ability to understand that eating an animal is cruel. The need to survive and they do what they need to do to survive. Humans that have been educated can make a choice: consume animals that spend their lives (and death) in suffering, or switch to something better for you, the animal, and the environment.
    That makes no sense what so ever? Why is eating only vegatables, better for the enviroment?

    And just because someone eats meat, does not mean they support animal cruelty. I eat meat, and will always. But I don't support animal cruelty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RAID3N. View Post
    I'm a vegetarian for the reason of animal cruelty. It's disgusting how horribly they live and how they are killed.

    Saying that its okay to eat meat because most animals do is a cop out. Animals don't have the cognitive ability to understand that eating an animal is cruel. The need to survive and they do what they need to do to survive. Humans that have been educated can make a choice: consume animals that spend their lives (and death) in suffering, or switch to something better for you, the animal, and the environment.

    I've only been vegetarian for 3 months now, but I'm completely used to it. There are plenty of ways to be satisfied with what you eat and plenty of ways to get any nutrients you may miss out on. (Eggs, beans, etc.) You just have to make the decision.
    Maybe it's a silly question but how can anyone be sure how other species think? Or what they think about? Lets say I for some reason felt then need to go pinch a tigers leg. Would the tiger turn to look to see what did that but not do anything? Or is the tiger thinking what a jerk why would you do that? I don't think anyone can say for sure what the tiger thinks.

    Maybe other animals acoording to human reaearch can't think that way. But hey in my opinion we never know. Something that is accepted by all or most could be proven wrong. Like how we used to think the sun revolved around us. We're always being suprised by things so I'm open ended about a lot of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorzilla View Post
    The food chain must follow its natural course. However, what we do is not natural. Torturing animals and breeding them inside cages with hormones and all kind of $#@! is something that should be stopped. We cannot live at the expense of sacrificing every living being in the planet, for they have the right to live and have a full animal life. I know it makes no difference since loads of people eat there everyday, but I never, EVER go to a big, fast food company or a big food chain company. McDonald's, Burger King, KFC, whatever you name it can go suck my **ck.
    I don't agree with torturing animals either.

    Also, I only eat organic/natural meat. I don't buy meat from Walmart or the likes, I buy it from a butcher who has organic meat.

    So if you take all that out...why is it wrong to eat animals otherwise? Is it any more wrong than eating plants? (considering they're also alive)

    I will agree with one thing though, I don't feel conscious when eating a vegetable, though I do when it's an animal.

    Quote Originally Posted by .RAID3N. View Post
    I'm a vegetarian for the reason of animal cruelty. It's disgusting how horribly they live and how they are killed.

    Saying that its okay to eat meat because most animals do is a cop out. Animals don't have the cognitive ability to understand that eating an animal is cruel. The need to survive and they do what they need to do to survive. Humans that have been educated can make a choice: consume animals that spend their lives (and death) in suffering, or switch to something better for you, the animal, and the environment.
    It's not so much that they don't have the cognitive ability but more so that they're made to eat other animals, it's part of nature because some of these animals are carnivores...they can't survive on plants.

    We may have a choice but some people don't. What about them? Also, what about when we didn't have a choice and had to kill animals to survive and use their skin as cover?

    I've only been vegetarian for 3 months now, but I'm completely used to it. There are plenty of ways to be satisfied with what you eat and plenty of ways to get any nutrients you may miss out on. (Eggs, beans, etc.) You just have to make the decision.
    You do realize that eggs can also be seen as animal cruelty...I mean, you're eating something that could've been alive. Yes, you can argue that the egg was never supposed to hatch or isn't hatch-able in its form but that's beside the point, it was on intent. Not to mention, just supporting eggs could also mean animal cruelty because most of these producers care about profits more and less about how well these hens are kept.

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    Veg is good but its not possible to get all the vitamins and things the human body needs from it the few vegetarians I knew were pale and feeble.
    What I do not get is Vegetarian bacon.
    Vegan is too far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwesnoth View Post
    That makes no sense what so ever? Why is eating only vegatables, better for the enviroment?
    The environmental impact of the heavy duty industrial meat farming and production is actually pretty profound. for example hundreds and thousands of acres of Amazonian rainforest have been chopped down to clear space for massive cattle ranches.

    Quote Originally Posted by podsaurus View Post
    Maybe it's a silly question but how can anyone be sure how other species think? Or what they think about? Lets say I for some reason felt then need to go pinch a tigers leg. Would the tiger turn to look to see what did that but not do anything? Or is the tiger thinking what a jerk why would you do that? I don't think anyone can say for sure what the tiger thinks.

    Maybe other animals acoording to human reaearch can't think that way. But hey in my opinion we never know. Something that is accepted by all or most could be proven wrong. Like how we used to think the sun revolved around us. We're always being suprised by things so I'm open ended about a lot of things.
    well we can be fairly sure (from our scientific understanding of other species) that many do not have cognitive decision making abilities. a large amount of the species on this world act purely on instinct be that chemical or impulses. very few species make reasoned and thought out choices.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I've been thinking about this topic for a while now. There are a few videos out there that show animal cruelty (Earthlings, Food Inc. etc.) and it gets me thinking...Why do I love chicken so much?

    I think meat is awesome and even if I have the choice to become a vegetarian and would probably be more healthy that way...and I do feel bad about the animals, whether killed in a humane way or not, I just can't shake off the feeling that it's wrong for me to do this.

    When is it appropriate to eat an animal? When you don't have a choice?

    I guess it was alright for our ancestors (thousands of years ago) to eat meat because they didn't have a choice. I'm sure there are still plenty of people around the world that still hunt for food to survive (tribes, fishermen).

    Is it fair to ask those people to become vegetarian? I don't know. I guess there's a point where your primitive senses take over for survival and in certain cases, no one would even ask you to stop eating your own.

    So I personally feel that organizations like PETA should not suggest people to become vegetarians however keep promoting humane treatment (as pets and killing for food or to euthanize), which I completely agree with.

    Do you think differently?

    Side topic: I don't believe in euthanizing an animal but I recently realized that you can either have it this way or you can have stray dogs everywhere biting people, giving them rabies and/or death. Or is it possible for animals to live among humans? (not as pets) What other way is there?
    Good thread Sufi.

    I recently decided not to eat pork anymore, and now not even chicken. I recently saw that in the US alone more than a hundred billion chicken died every year. What things come down to is the necessity, if i dont need it, i'd rather learn about new food sources and enjoy the freshness of that new experience. I'm not saying it's wrong to eat meat, but i do think we ow it to ourselfs to atleast expand our field of view about it.

    Edit: as a side note, i think anyone who has had experience with animals, or seen vids about cruelty or whatever has the ability to realize that animals feel too. It does feel sickening that we slaughter so much animals, and as in typical human behaviour, humans dont do things by the "book" when there is shortcuts, so dont expect anyone to kill them "humanly".
    Last edited by MxB-One; 10-07-2011 at 18:24.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelbo1 View Post
    The environmental impact of the heavy duty industrial meat farming and production is actually pretty profound. for example hundreds and thousands of acres of Amazonian rainforest have been chopped down to clear space for massive cattle ranches.
    Really? Mo meat for me then!
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelbo1 View Post
    The environmental impact of the heavy duty industrial meat farming and production is actually pretty profound. for example hundreds and thousands of acres of Amazonian rainforest have been chopped down to clear space for massive cattle ranches.



    well we can be fairly sure (from our scientific understanding of other species) that many do not have cognitive decision making abilities. a large amount of the species on this world act purely on instinct be that chemical or impulses. very few species make reasoned and thought out choices.
    Thank you. I'm on tapatalk and didn't feel like trying to multiquote. You basically said everything I wanted to say.

    As for the egg thing, they were never alive. Yes they could have had a chance, but they never were alive. And we buy our eggs from the farmers market from a farm we have visited. They live great lives. Also, milk is bought from a local dairy were the cows are treated great and the baby boys are never sent to he veal industry.
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    The Indians ate meat, but do you know the difference between them and today's society? They didn't waste it like we do. We kill for the meat and throw everything else away but the indians used everything, they didn't take their prey for granted.

    I see nothing wrong with eating meat or plants, but I do see something wrong with wasting stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    The Indians ate meat, but do you know the difference between them and today's society? They didn't waste it like we do. We kill for the meat and throw everything else away but the indians used everything, they didn't take their prey for granted.

    I see nothing wrong with eating meat or plants, but I do see something wrong with wasting stuff.
    Do you really believe that? Where do you think the beef that goes into Taco bell's sub $1 burritos/tacos comes from. Or better yet what most chicken nuggets consist of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Do you really believe that? Where do you think the beef that goes into Taco bell's sub $1 burritos/tacos comes from. Or better yet what most chicken nuggets consist of.
    thats true. it's money in there so they don't waste it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I don't agree with torturing animals either. Also, I only eat organic/natural meat. I don't buy meat from Walmart or the likes, I buy it from a butcher who has organic meat. So if you take all that out...why is it wrong to eat animals otherwise? Is it any more wrong than eating plants? (considering they're also alive)
    I will agree with one thing though, I don't feel conscious when eating a vegetable, though I do when it's an animal.
    I'm with you man. I really can't swear or ensure that the meat I get from the butcher comes 100% from farms where animals are raised in the field like proper living beings or not, but I'd like to think they are. At least, I'm sure the meat from a local butcher comes from a farm that doesn't torture animals in the way those who provide Walmart and other big chains do.

    I do however believe that animals are smart, sentient beings, all in their own terms. I hate how scientists try to come up with ways to measure animal intelligence by human terms. I always see my cats seemingly dreaming asleep, doing running motions or just groaning at times and even giving a few sighs every night. In order to have dreams you must have a subconscious, so if animals do have one, that means they have a conscience as well and are capable of retaining and remembering things through sight, smelling or listening. We are not so different after all.
    That's why I'm against animal cruelty. They have all the right in the world to live their lives in peace, leaving mother nature to decide when ones come and go. We do not have a single reason to do to them what we do in farms. We might be the upper layer of the food chain, but we should set an example as the pseudo "sentient" beings we are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Do you really believe that? Where do you think the beef that goes into Taco bell's sub $1 burritos/tacos comes from. Or better yet what most chicken nuggets consist of.
    Okay, so we get the beef and the chicken. What happens to the cow's hide? What happens to the chicken's feathers? Both of those things could be used for something, but they are thrown away with the corpse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    Okay, so we get the beef and the chicken. What happens to the cow's hide? What happens to the chicken's feathers? Both of those things could be used for something, but they are thrown away with the corpse.
    Leather goods.

    Chicken feathers really aren't worth anything in terms of insulation, which makes them essentially worthless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Leather goods.

    Chicken feathers really aren't worth anything in terms of insulation, which makes them essentially worthless.
    They could be used to make the most authentic chicken suit possible? Just in time for Halloween!

    @squirrel That makes sense with the chemical reactions and stuff. I'm still open to maybe other animals having a hint a thought process going on.

    As a side note now that I'm thinking of it. I hate that people compare 'humans' and then 'animals' as if they're two different things. Humans are mammals so that makes us animals. That doesn't pertain to anything here this just made me think of it and how annoying that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by podsaurus View Post
    As a side note now that I'm thinking of it. I hate that people compare 'humans' and then 'animals' as if they're two different things. Humans are mammals so that makes us animals. That doesn't pertain to anything here this just made me think of it and how annoying that is.
    I understand what you're saying and I will say that arguably you can say that we're the same.

    I mean, when a kid sees something different, like a bug or a small animal as a threat, he/she tries to kill it or at least hurt it or push it away or smack it. That's what an animal would do to anything it feels threatened by or something similar.

    But the difference comes in when a human being is old enough to respect animals and treat them well.

    Generally you're not going to see a cow being mean to anyone but a wild ferocious animal like a grizzly bear would probably think differently than either the cow or a human being.

    Granted, they're doing it for their own protection whereas a human being might kill an animal because they either don't care about killing it or they're doing it for fun or don't like it. Not to mention, there are many times when tamed animals (not sure about wild ones) have shown compassion in human beings and have not attacked even when they had all the chance to.

    In a sense, animals are better than us because they only attack us when they feel threatened whereas we attack them for various other, sometimes selfish reasons.

    I could go on and say more but thinking about it, I've come to a conclusion that we're different than animals but we're definitely not better than them due to our own core sets of problems.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thorzilla View Post
    I'm with you man. I really can't swear or ensure that the meat I get from the butcher comes 100% from farms where animals are raised in the field like proper living beings or not, but I'd like to think they are. At least, I'm sure the meat from a local butcher comes from a farm that doesn't torture animals in the way those who provide Walmart and other big chains do.
    That's true, I can't know that either, however they do mention that they're raised on free ranges. I guess in some limited fashion, it's better than keeping them in one spot.

    I will say that I generally don't choose chicken based on how it was treated but rather if it was organic or not...and really, we have no way to find out unless we actually went to all of the farms that these brands get their chicken from and checked it out ourselves...even then, who knows what happens when no one is visiting.

    I do however believe that animals are smart, sentient beings, all in their own terms. I hate how scientists try to come up with ways to measure animal intelligence by human terms. I always see my cats seemingly dreaming asleep, doing running motions or just groaning at times and even giving a few sighs every night. In order to have dreams you must have a subconscious, so if animals do have one, that means they have a conscience as well and are capable of retaining and remembering things through sight, smelling or listening. We are not so different after all.
    That's why I'm against animal cruelty. They have all the right in the world to live their lives in peace, leaving mother nature to decide when ones come and go. We do not have a single reason to do to them what we do in farms. We might be the upper layer of the food chain, but we should set an example as the pseudo "sentient" beings we are.
    I agree with that, they are intelligent beings and deserve to live just as much as us.

    One problem with that though, it's not possible for most animals to live in peace with humans. Let's take dogs for example, they certainly may kill a human being or another animal due to being threatened by them. It's in their nature to defend themselves. Some might just have a screw loose and not even care and attack without a reason.

    Would we need to euthanize animals, if they didn't attack human beings? I'd think the reason for controlling animal population (note: not on the subject of consuming animals) was to protect ourselves from them.

    Otherwise stray dogs could attack our children or adults as well. Agree? Disagree?

    With that being said, I'm anti-cruelty against animals by all means.

    So if everything was being done as humanely as possible to consume animals...is it ok to do so?
    Last edited by Omar; 10-07-2011 at 20:05.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    That's true, I can't know that either, however they do mention that they're raised on free ranges. I guess in some limited fashion, it's better than keeping them in one spot.

    I will say that I generally don't choose chicken based on how it was treated but rather if it was organic or not...and really, we have no way to find out unless we actually went to all of the farms that these brands get their chicken from and checked it out ourselves...even then, who knows what happens when no one is visiting.

    I agree with that, they are intelligent beings and deserve to live just as much as us.

    One problem with that though, it's not possible for most animals to live in peace with humans. Let's take dogs for example, they certainly may kill a human being or another animal due to being threatened by them. It's in their nature to defend themselves. Some might just have a screw loose and not even care and attack without a reason.

    Would we need to euthanize animals, if they didn't attack human beings? I'd think the reason for controlling animal population (note: not on the subject of consuming animals) was to protect ourselves from them.

    Otherwise stray dogs could attack our children or adults as well. Agree? Disagree?

    With that being said, I'm anti-cruelty against animals by all means.

    So if everything was being done as humanely as possible to consume animals...is it ok to do so?
    FYI, organic can sometimes mean worse for the animal. For example, a pig being raised organically will still get their reproductive organs cut out with no pain killers. Difference is, an organic farm means no antibiotics or steroids can be used. So if that pig gets an infection for whatever reason, nothing can be done to help that animal because they can't give it an antibiotic. Organic meats are really just better for the human consuming them.

    Also, 'free-range' doesn't always mean 'bounding across fields of beauty'. It can still spell harsh living conditions. And the death is still the same

    I have asked myself the question of it being okay if I knew everything was 'humane', and I usually come to the conclusion that if I don't need it to survive, then what's the point?

    By the way, I don't want to come across as all high and mighty. Like I said, I've been vegetarian for only 3 months. I didn't really know any of this stuff up until that point. But I'm glad I do now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Birbiglia
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    $#@! no it ain't. I lost 60 pounds going on a strict meat diet. Is it wrong? Hell no.
    I once ate a dirty sock...don't tell anyone.
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  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RAID3N. View Post
    FYI, organic can sometimes mean worse for the animal. For example, a pig being raised organically will still get their reproductive organs cut out with no pain killers. Difference is, an organic farm means no antibiotics or steroids can be used. So if that pig gets an infection for whatever reason, nothing can be done to help that animal because they can't give it an antibiotic. Organic meats are really just better for the human consuming them.

    Also, 'free-range' doesn't always mean 'bounding across fields of beauty'. It can still spell harsh living conditions. And the death is still the same

    I have asked myself the question of it being okay if I knew everything was 'humane', and I usually come to the conclusion that if I don't need it to survive, then what's the point?

    By the way, I don't want to come across as all high and mighty. Like I said, I've been vegetarian for only 3 months. I didn't really know any of this stuff up until that point. But I'm glad I do now.
    Actually I didn't know that.

    I'd most certainly not have a problem with giving them antibiotics for their pain, I just figured they gave them those pills for raising them faster and whatever else they want to gain profits on and end up giving us whatever diseases that comes with it all.

    I pay a little more money to do two things, 1) Not consume an animal that is altered in a dangerous way. 2) A by-product that means they will generally be treated better since they will have more room.

    Though as you said, it's not much better, however as far as free range, I figured it wasn't better and we shouldn't think that's necessarily good for them because we don't have the right to decide what's good for them.

    But then again, nor we have the right to kill them to eat them...nor do we have the right to keep them in a range for our own good. We just do it because they are beneficial to us.

    I agree with you that much.

    Do you think that this trend will ever change? Even if people stopped treating animals badly (which I honestly don't think is possible), will all of us ever become vegetarian or better yet, vegan?

    I guess, part of the reason I keep doing it is because it's readily available and it's easy to cook and eat without much else. You could argue that I shouldn't care about convenience and just come up with something that's completely vegetable-based (which in time could also become easy enough to make)...I mean, Indians do it. Most Indians are vegetarian and vegan.

    I try to buy meat that is supposedly humanely raised and killed...but let's say that I become a vegetarian, would that change anything in my life time? Could we all ever become vegetarians?

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Veg is good but its not possible to get all the vitamins and things the human body needs from it the few vegetarians I knew were pale and feeble.
    What I do not get is Vegetarian bacon.
    Vegan is too far.
    To you sir please Google "Robert Cheeke" and you will see another side to your theory about the body's dietary needs.

    I see alot of comments in this thread talk about the food chain and the natural order of things, well you only need to look at the teeth of the animals of which you speak and compare them to our own teeth which are not designed to rip flesh from the bone and our indigestion system is also not capable of breaking down meat.

    I see we also talk about instinct if killing animals was instinctive or a survival need then everyday when you walk down the street and see a wild animal you would have a hunger/need to feed off it and for the hunters among you think what a wild animal does when it comes across road kill. Im sure you feel the same and start to feed on the rotting flesh instinctively like a real carnivore does.
    Last edited by Marcsony; 10-07-2011 at 20:33.

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