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  1. #26
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    I love meat, a good bit of steak is just delicious. No way I'll be giving it up any time soon.

    As far as I'm concerned, it's appropriate to eat meat any time you're hungry.

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    I think that's its right to be an omnivore. Is it fair? No, not at all, considering the way we kill the animals. But technically, isn't it just the big cycle of life? We need to food for energy, and meat is food and the best source of protein, and I'm sure that most members here aren't cannibals. So what has meat besides humans? Animals! If you look at it this way, then it isn't as bad as it seems.

    Last edited by wesmore24; 10-08-2011 at 00:52.




  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RAID3N. View Post
    ...I've only been vegetarian for 3 months now, but I'm completely used to it. There are plenty of ways to be satisfied with what you eat and plenty of ways to get any nutrients you may miss out on. (Eggs, beans, etc.) You just have to make the decision.
    A Family guy quote comes to mind.
    Chris (Luke): You don't believe in the force, do you?
    Peter (Han): Oh, you mean that thing you just learned about three hours ago, and am now judging me for not believing in?
    I love animals don't get me wrong. I've always been fascinated by them and i always will be, they are much more interesting than people. I couldn't dream as living as a vegetarian and i wouldn't want to. Nothing ever grown will taste like a nice tasty steak.

    If a meal has no meat in it, it's not worth eating.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    A Family guy quote comes to mind.


    I love animals don't get me wrong. I've always been fascinated by them and i always will be, they are much more interesting than people. I couldn't dream as living as a vegetarian and i wouldn't want to. Nothing ever grown will taste like a nice tasty steak.

    If a meal has no meat in it, it's not worth eating.
    Guess you missed the part where I said I didn't want to come off that way. But thanks for adding to the discussion...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Birbiglia
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  5. #30
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    Don't take it to heart man, i was only messing around.

  6. #31
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    Your body depends on the nutrients and vitamins that coem form meat. There's nothing wrong with following your biological imperatives to consume the animals below you. Are bodies are built to work, and you need things like protein for that. Obviously we don't work as much as our ancestors, but the internal need is still there. The mistreatment of animals is entirely subjective, but I feel it's wrong. They feel pain just as much as we do.
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  7. #32
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    Lately I kinda have had a thing for eating tomatoes all by themselves. It's not too bad actually....

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Your body depends on the nutrients and vitamins that coem form meat. There's nothing wrong with following your biological imperatives to consume the animals below you. Are bodies are built to work, and you need things like protein for that. Obviously we don't work as much as our ancestors, but the internal need is still there. The mistreatment of animals is entirely subjective, but I feel it's wrong. They feel pain just as much as we do.
    I think vitamin B12 is the only essential nutrient that can't be found in any other natural food source aside from meat. But obviously, there are other ways beside meat to get ALL of the necessary nutrients for your body to function.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Birbiglia
    Why would you go talk about computers when you could stay here and go skiing and your skis will be french toast sticks!

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RAID3N. View Post
    I think vitamin B12 is the only essential nutrient that can't be found in any other natural food source aside from meat. But obviously, there are other ways beside meat to get ALL of the necessary nutrients for your body to function.
    True but meat is the best form of it and isnt needed in large quantities and no need for vitamin suplements.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RAID3N. View Post
    I think vitamin B12 is the only essential nutrient that can't be found in any other natural food source aside from meat. But obviously, there are other ways beside meat to get ALL of the necessary nutrients for your body to function.
    It can be found in mild, and is common in certain fortified.

    You can get all the nutrients you need to sustain yourself if you are a vegetarian.

    Having said that, it would take a lot to make me give up chicken.

  11. #36
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    Of course there's nothing wrong with eating meat. Part of the reason we're all intelligent enough to be able to have discussions like this is because our distant ancestors made the leap to killing and eating the meat from other animals which helped to fuel our evolution and develop our brains beyond the pure instinct of the animals we see around us.

    The development of the larger brains we take for granted every day was made possible by the consumption of meat, organs, and other nutrient-rich animal products during our early evolution. Our ancestors, instead of spending all their metabolic energy processing cellulose and plant matter, turned to a high-meat diet, which utilised fat-soluble vitamins and meant energy could be diverted away from a big fermenting pot of a stomach and toward fueling their massive brains. Our brains eat up about 25% of our base metabolic rate, as opposed to 8-10% for the apes who eat far less animal matter. Our brains are large and our guts are relatively small and bereft of cellulose-consuming bacteria, while a gorilla’s brain, for example, is relatively small and its gut enormous and well-equipped with the proper bacteria for dealing with its largely vegetarian diet.

    It's likely that if our ancestors hadn't taken that step towards a meat-based diet, we'd all still be sitting in trees eating nuts and berries, throwing $#@! at each other, unable to enjoy the immense works of art, music, literature...etc, that our protein enriched brains have allowed us to create.

    Sure, you can argue that some of the practices by which we obtain our meat and animal products are wrong, but the basic principle of eating meat is about as natural a thing for our species to do as reproduction is.
    Last edited by ozman79; 10-08-2011 at 11:37.

  12. #37
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    Wow, awesome stuff. So much information from both sides of the argument.

    So let me get this straight, no one has any objection to the statement that we can get all the nutrients we need from vegetables?

    ozman79, if that's true, that's insane and I never knew about it.

    Could you elaborate more or maybe tell us where you found this information?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    So let me get this straight, no one has any objection to the statement that we can get all the nutrients we need from vegetables?
    No, not really. The effect of our meat-based diet on our evolution has already happened, and can't be undone or lessened simply by reverting to a vegetarian diet. Maybe if our whole species became vegetarian then over the course of a few million years we'd possibly devolve back into creatures with more limited brain capacities, but that's pretty unlikely.

    ozman79, if that's true, that's insane and I never knew about it.

    Could you elaborate more or maybe tell us where you found this information?
    It's really just a brief summary of a lot of stuff I've read over the years in books or online. I'd suggest googling "meat and human evolution", and you'll find plenty of information about it.

    In the meantime, here's actor Sam Neill in a video for the "Red Meat: We Were Meant To Eat It" ad campaign...



    And here's Troy McClure to tell us all why eating meat is ok...



    Last edited by ozman79; 10-08-2011 at 12:21.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RAID3N. View Post
    I think vitamin B12 is the only essential nutrient that can't be found in any other natural food source aside from meat. But obviously, there are other ways beside meat to get ALL of the necessary nutrients for your body to function.
    Vegetables aren't rich in protein and certain other nutrients. I don't know the specific names, but I do know that's the case. A vegan is simply not going to be as healthy as someone who consumes both meat and veggies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    True but meat is the best form of it and isnt needed in large quantities and no need for vitamin suplements.
    The daily amount of B12 needed is only 6 micrograms. My one multivitamin has that, plus 100% of my DV for Iron and 100% of my DV for Zinc. So I need calcium and protein, which can be found just as easily in other foods aside from meat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Vegetables aren't rich in protein and certain other nutrients. I don't know the specific names, but I do know that's the case. A vegan is simply not going to be as healthy as someone who consumes both meat and veggies.
    The essential nutrients that vegetarians can be lacking are protein, calcium, vitamin b12, zinc, iron and vitamin d. Like I said above, a multivitamin can take care of those last four very easily. Protein is easily found in beans, veggie burgers, peanut butter, eggs, etc. And calcium in milk, fortified cereals and orange juice, and yogurt.

    Your statement is just blatantly false. Animal products are high in saturated fat and cholesterol. You can get all the nutrients your body needs without eating animal products. FACT. Vegans can be just as healthy, if not healthier than people that eat animal products.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Birbiglia
    Why would you go talk about computers when you could stay here and go skiing and your skis will be french toast sticks!

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RAID3N. View Post
    The essential nutrients that vegetarians can be lacking are protein, calcium, vitamin b12, zinc, iron and vitamin d. Like I said above, a multivitamin can take care of those last four very easily. Protein is easily found in beans, veggie burgers, peanut butter, eggs, etc. And calcium in milk, fortified cereals and orange juice, and yogurt.

    Your statement is just blatantly false. Animal products are high in saturated fat and cholesterol. You can get all the nutrients your body needs without eating animal products. FACT. Vegans can be just as healthy, if not healthier than people that eat animal products.
    That doesn't change anything. Your body is built to consume both meat and vegetables. Try building your muscles by only consuming vegetables, and you'll progress very slowly. Many vegetarian dieters have Vitamin B-12 deficiencies, and most vegetarians have zinc, iron, and anemia deficiencies. Meat is the absolute best source for protein and iron, and most vegetarians aren't getting enough. You can live fine with proper vegan dieting, but you'll live better with a proper omnivore diet.
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  17. #42
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    Eggs are MEAT. lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .RAID3N. View Post
    The essential nutrients that vegetarians can be lacking are protein, calcium, vitamin b12, zinc, iron and vitamin d. Like I said above, a multivitamin can take care of those last four very easily. Protein is easily found in beans, veggie burgers, peanut butter, eggs, etc. And calcium in milk, fortified cereals and orange juice, and yogurt.

    Your statement is just blatantly false. Animal products are high in saturated fat and cholesterol. You can get all the nutrients your body needs without eating animal products. FACT. Vegans can be just as healthy, if not healthier than people that eat animal products.
    The fact that you have to supplement your diet with those multivitamins and such is only further evidence that your diet is not natural to our species. I'm not saying you're wrong, as it is possible to lead a healthy lifestyle as a vegetarian, as long as you do supplement your diet. The fact remains that vegetarianism is not inherantly natural for human beings as an omnivorous mammal. Red meat was instrumental in our development as intelligent beings, and our bodies have evolved based around that fact.

    As for any detrimental health effects from meat consumption, it's more a case of how the meat is produced, and how it is cooked, than the properties of the meat itself. As with many of the things we consume that can be considered health risks, moderation is the key to everything.
    Last edited by ozman79; 10-08-2011 at 15:28.

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  21. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    That doesn't change anything. Your body is built to consume both meat and vegetables. Try building your muscles by only consuming vegetables, and you'll progress very slowly. Many vegetarian dieters have Vitamin B-12 deficiencies, and most vegetarians have zinc, iron, and anemia deficiencies. Meat is the absolute best source for protein and iron, and most vegetarians aren't getting enough. You can live fine with proper vegan dieting, but you'll live better with a proper omnivore diet.
    Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Eggs are MEAT. lol.
    Most people don't consider them meat because of the fact that they never contained life. They are unfertilized without a rooster and therefore are a by-product of the chicken. Just like milk is a by-product of cows.

    FYI, I never said I was vegan. Vegans don't eat ANY animal product, so therefore, milk and eggs would not be part of a vegan's diet. I would like to get there eventually, but I'd like to think I'm taking baby steps

    Quote Originally Posted by ozman79 View Post
    The fact that you have to supplement your diet with those multivitamins and such is only further evidence that your diet is not natural to our species. I'm not saying you're wrong, as it is possible to lead a healthy lifestyle as a vegetarian, as long as you do supplement your diet. The fact remains that vegetarianism is not inherantly natural for human beings as an omnivorous mammal. Red meat was instrumental in our development as intelligent beings, and our bodies have evolved based around that fact.

    As for any detrimental health effects from meat consumption, it's more a case of how the meat is produced, and how it is cooked, than the properties of the meat itself. As with many of the things we consume that can be considered health risks, moderation is the key to everything.
    Well said. I agree that perhaps as a species we 'evolved' to a being that survived on red meat. But for me, the cons heavily outweigh the pros.

    Basically, my stance is: If I can survive without eating animal flesh, why make an animal suffer for my pleasure.
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  22. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RAID3N. View Post
    Well said. I agree that perhaps as a species we 'evolved' to a being that survived on red meat. But for me, the cons heavily outweigh the pros.

    Basically, my stance is: If I can survive without eating animal flesh, why make an animal suffer for my pleasure.
    That's perfectly understandable, and no-one can tell you you're wrong for making that choice. I, for one, commend your dedication to your principles. I'd say it's a fair bet that 99% of people who do become vegetarians made the decision based on moral grounds, rather than nutritional ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Vegetables aren't rich in protein and certain other nutrients. I don't know the specific names, but I do know that's the case. A vegan is simply not going to be as healthy as someone who consumes both meat and veggies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    That doesn't change anything. Your body is built to consume both meat and vegetables. Try building your muscles by only consuming vegetables, and you'll progress very slowly. Many vegetarian dieters have Vitamin B-12 deficiencies, and most vegetarians have zinc, iron, and anemia deficiencies. Meat is the absolute best source for protein and iron, and most vegetarians aren't getting enough. You can live fine with proper vegan dieting, but you'll live better with a proper omnivore diet.
    Quote Originally Posted by ozman79 View Post
    The fact that you have to supplement your diet with those multivitamins and such is only further evidence that your diet is not natural to our species. I'm not saying you're wrong, as it is possible to lead a healthy lifestyle as a vegetarian, as long as you do supplement your diet. The fact remains that vegetarianism is not inherantly natural for human beings as an omnivorous mammal. Red meat was instrumental in our development as intelligent beings, and our bodies have evolved based around that fact.

    As for any detrimental health effects from meat consumption, it's more a case of how the meat is produced, and how it is cooked, than the properties of the meat itself. As with many of the things we consume that can be considered health risks, moderation is the key to everything.
    Wrong, you can sustain yourself properly with a vegetarian diet without having to rely on supplements or vitamin pills.

    A vegan diet, however is not sustainable without those supplements/pills.

  24. #47
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    I can't be wrong if I never said that, Matrix.
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  25. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    I can't be wrong if I never said that, Matrix.
    you'll live better with a proper omnivore diet is incorrect. Plus the whole thing on vegetarian's and their deficiencies.

    You will also notice I was addressing oz's post in my post as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    you'll live better with a proper omnivore diet is incorrect. Plus the whole thing on vegetarian's and their deficiencies.

    You will also notice I was addressing oz's post in my post as well.
    I never said anything about "living better". I was mainly talking about the fact that being omnivores is in our nature as a species - related to the fact that the topic at hand is the question of whether being an omnivore is wrong or not. The rest came from the fact that I was talking to a vegetarian who said he supplements his diet with things like multivatamins, and the fact that meat eaten in fair moderation as part of a balanced diet is not hugely detrimental to people's health. My points still stand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozman79 View Post
    I never said anything about "living better". I was mainly talking about the fact that being omnivores is in our nature as a species - related to the fact that the topic at hand is the question of whether being an omnivore is wrong or not. The rest came from the fact that I was talking to a vegetarian who said he supplements his diet with things like multivatamins, and the fact that meat eaten in fair moderation as part of a balanced diet is not hugely detrimental to people's health. My points still stand.
    The first part of my post was directed to Rapture. When I mentioned your post, I was referring to my previous post with 3 quotes (2 from rapture, 1 from you).

    The meat you refer to is highly variable. If it is fresh/ not full of preservatives than it may offer the benefits of eating meat without the negatives. However if it is a processed/preserved meat or cooked in a certain fashion it can and will have detrimental effects on your health. Also light consumption is fine. but medium or heavy consumption can cause health issues.

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