Is it wrong to be an Omnivore?

[MATRIX 2]

I never said anything about "living better". I was mainly talking about the fact that being omnivores is in our nature as a species - related to the fact that the topic at hand is the question of whether being an omnivore is wrong or not. The rest came from the fact that I was talking to a vegetarian who said he supplements his diet with things like multivatamins, and the fact that meat eaten in fair moderation as part of a balanced diet is not hugely detrimental to people's health. My points still stand.

The first part of my post was directed to Rapture. When I mentioned your post, I was referring to my previous post with 3 quotes (2 from rapture, 1 from you).

The meat you refer to is highly variable. If it is fresh/ not full of preservatives than it may offer the benefits of eating meat without the negatives. However if it is a processed/preserved meat or cooked in a certain fashion it can and will have detrimental effects on your health. Also light consumption is fine. but medium or heavy consumption can cause health issues.

[Rapture]

you'll live better with a proper omnivore diet is incorrect. Plus the whole thing on vegetarian's and their deficiencies.

Studies are wrong, and less eating options is better? OK....

[MATRIX 2]

Studies are wrong, and less eating options is better? OK....

This is your response? Seriously? There are so many studies on the subject that even if a few were incorrect it wouldn't matter at all.

Hell there are several hundred million vegetarians in India alone and they seem to be doing fine.

Less options? DO you have any idea the number the fruits and vegetables there are on this planet. It vastly outnumbers the regular available meat choices.

I could probably list several fruits/vegetables I've eaten that you probably have not, or even heard of.

Drop it an, you (and anybody else that wants to eat meat) is fine, but don't go around spouting misinformation that you must eat meat in order to have a proper diet and therefore cannot maintain a proper diet as a vegetarian (without supplements/vitamins).

[Rapture]

This is your response? Seriously? There are so many studies on the subject that even if a few were incorrect it wouldn't matter at all.

Hell there are several hundred million vegetarians in India alone and they seem to be doing fine.

Less options? DO you have any idea the number the fruits and vegetables there are on this planet. It vastly outnumbers the regular available meat choices.

I could probably list several fruits/vegetables I've eaten that you probably have not, or even heard of.

Drop it an, you (and anybody else that wants to eat meat) is fine, but don't go around spouting misinformation that you must eat meat in order to have a proper diet and therefore cannot maintain a proper diet as a vegetarian (without supplements/vitamins).

You're the one espousing that a pure vegan diet is better than a proper omnivore diet. What a joke.

[Sufi]

Rapture, I think you may have confused him with someone else in the thread...I looked back into it, this was MATRIX's reply earlier:

Wrong, you can sustain yourself properly with a vegetarian diet without having to rely on supplements or vitamin pills.

A vegan diet, however is not sustainable without those supplements/pills.

He did differentiate that a vegan diet will need supplements but a vegetarian diet won't.

Interesting because I might look into this whole vegetarian diet...I don't think I can ever become a pure vegetarian for various reasons, including social ones and sadly, convenience (learning how to make vegetarian stuff) but I think I will definitely lessen the meat diet quite a lot.

[MATRIX 2]

Rapture, I think you may have confused him with someone else in the thread...I looked back into it, this was MATRIX's reply earlier:



He did differentiate that a vegan diet will need supplements but a vegetarian diet won't.

Interesting because I might look into this whole vegetarian diet...I don't think I can ever become a pure vegetarian for various reasons, including social ones and sadly, convenience (learning how to make vegetarian stuff) but I think I will definitely lessen the meat diet quite a lot.

You are from pakistan. The native cuisine makes it pretty easy (though it is more meat biased than Indian cuisine).

[Sufi]

You are from pakistan. The native cuisine makes it pretty easy (though it is more meat biased than Indian cuisine).

Yup. I married an Indian and due to her, I know that Indian food is vegetable-based and it's a lot more healthy imo than the cuisines that we make (which is like you mentioned, meat-based).

For me, the huge problem before was to find healthy meat and stop eating processed foods...and that look a lot of effort and knowledge. I've tried going more vegetarian but it's a lot tougher than going non-processed (readily available) foods. Living away from parents is tough, we're always scrambling to find ways to make sure we have enough food at home that is healthy to eat.

My wife can't cook all the time, she has to take care of the baby, the house and she goes to school. I try to help out but like I said, it's tough to "not" go out and eat restaurant or cafe food because it's not easy to always prepare food at home.

On top of that, pretty much everyone I know is not a complete vegetarian so there's another issue if you go to a party or to a relative's house.

It's tougher than quitting smoking imo (without the nicotine of course lol but I guess that nullifies my analogy). Ok, it's like trying to quit smoking while everyone else around you smokes...actually to me that'd still be easier, imo of course. I can handle addiction (I am a gamer!) but it's tougher to handle hunger.

[ozman79]

The meat you refer to is highly variable. If it is fresh/ not full of preservatives than it may offer the benefits of eating meat without the negatives. However if it is a processed/preserved meat or cooked in a certain fashion it can and will have detrimental effects on your health. Also light consumption is fine. but medium or heavy consumption can cause health issues.

Which is exactly what I already said...

As for any detrimental health effects from meat consumption, it's more a case of how the meat is produced, and how it is cooked, than the properties of the meat itself. As with many of the things we consume that can be considered health risks, moderation is the key to everything.

..so I'm not sure what your point is.

[MATRIX 2]

Which is exactly what I already said...



..so I'm not sure what your point is.

My point is that most people do not consume meat in the ways and quantities that are beneficial to their health, so that their meat consumption is working against their health/well being more so than a vegetarian diet without any meat consumption.

In the end they are worse off than the vegetarians, which partially makes your point moot.

[ozman79]

My point is that most people do not consume meat in the ways and quantities that are beneficial to their health, so that their meat consumption is working against their health/well being more so than a vegetarian diet without any meat consumption.

Nobody is denying that and you're just stating the obvious again.

In the end they are worse off than the vegetarians, which partially makes your point moot.

No, it doesn't make my point moot. You're so eager to put us all right that you are failing to understand what is actually being said. My point relates to the basic principle of humans eating meat, not how we eat and produce it now. If we all ate proper proportions of unprocessed fresh meat as our ancestors did, our diet would be as low risk as you're saying a vegetarian diet is.

[MATRIX 2]

Nobody is denying that and you're just stating the obvious again.



No, it doesn't make my point moot. You're so eager to put us all right that you are failing to understand what is actually being said. My point relates to the basic principle of humans eating meat, not how we eat and produce it now. If we all ate proper proportions of unprocessed fresh meat as our ancestors did, our diet would be as low risk as you're saying a vegetarian diet is.

But that is not the case of our present day reality.

And even if that was the case today, there are still real health issues concerning the consumption of red meat, regardless about how it is prepared/preserved.

My point still stands.

[ozman79]

But that is not the case of our present day reality.

Where the hell did I say it was? Why are you arguing a point with me that has nothing to do with what I'm saying? Go argue with someone who actually said an omnivorous diet was better than a vegetarian one, since that isn't me.

And even if that was the case today, there are still real health issues concerning the consumption of red meat, regardless about how it is prepared/preserved.

My point still stands.

It's like talking to a brick wall.

[MATRIX 2]

Where the hell did I say it was? Why are you arguing a point with me that has nothing to do with what I'm saying? Go argue with someone who actually said an omnivorous diet was better than a vegetarian one, since that isn't me.



It's like talking to a brick wall.

Nobody is denying that and you're just stating the obvious again.



No, it doesn't make my point moot. You're so eager to put us all right that you are failing to understand what is actually being said. My point relates to the basic principle of humans eating meat, not how we eat and produce it now. If we all ate proper proportions of unprocessed fresh meat as our ancestors did, our diet would be as low risk as you're saying a vegetarian diet is.

But that is not the case of our present day reality.

And even if that was the case today, there are still real health issues concerning the consumption of red meat, regardless about how it is prepared/preserved.

My point still stands.

[ozman79]

You have no clue what you're talking about. There are no major inherant health risks to eating balanced proportions of meat in of itself. It would be idiotic to claim so when our bodies evolved specifically to exist on a balanced diet of meat and vegetables. The health risks involved come from the way it is processed and cooked, and overconsumption, nothing more. If you lived only off the things you killed, prepared and cooked yourself in a healthy way, the risks would be negligable. It's our reliance on mass-produced supermarket meat, heavily processed meats, and fast food that causes the problem.

[MATRIX 2]

You have no clue what you're talking about. There are no major inherant health risks to eating balanced proportions of meat in of itself. It would be idiotic to claim so when our bodies evolved specifically to exist on a balanced diet of meat and vegetables. The health risks involved come from the way it is processed and cooked, and overconsumption, nothing more. If you lived only off the things you killed, prepared and cooked yourself in a healthy way, the risks would be negligable. It's our reliance on mass-produced supermarket meat, heavily processed meats, and fast food that causes the problem.

You are incorrect. Regarding red meat (for the most part), it is not just the preservation, cooking, and consumption levels. It is inherent to the meat itself.

[ozman79]

Whatever. I can't be arsed going in circles with you anymore when I could be playing DCUO. I'll pick this up again tomorrow.

[Silver_Knight]

Well, if you eat both of them then there isn't a problem, correct? Consume your veggies and meat. They each provide stuff you need.
I can't believe you guys turn a topic about veggies and meats into a argument.

[MATRIX 2]

Well, if you eat both of them then there isn't a problem, correct? Consume your veggies and meat. They each provide stuff you need.
I can't believe you guys turn a topic about veggies and meats into a argument.

Did you just skip over all my posts on this page?

[Silver_Knight]

Did you just skip over all my posts on this page?

I was clearly saying that both provide what the human body needs.
I wasn't specifically talking you. Also, why did you assume this?
Edit: To answer you question i skimmed and read. A little of both.

[saleenf5]

I literally opened this thread to see if an argument has started.....damn I'm good.

[MATRIX 2]

I was clearly saying that both provide what the human body needs.
I wasn't specifically talking you. Also, why did you assume this?
Edit: To answer you question i skimmed and read. A little of both.

Then you would have understood 2 things:

#1 you don't need to eat both.
#2 Consumption of meat (red mostly) regardless of how much, or how it was prepared/preserved has been shown to have negative implications on your health.

[bash]

If everyone stopped eating meat it'd result in overpopulation and would fuck up the food chain.

[Marcsony]

Well, if you eat both of them then there isn't a problem, correct? Consume your veggies and meat. They each provide stuff you need.
I can't believe you guys turn a topic about veggies and meats into a argument.

Subjects of this nature will always get a tad heated when people talk about there belief's.

Ok so just a few points/questions again as mentioned previously the thought that the human body has evolved or is in somehow designed to consume flesh is imo false as if it were why the hell do we need to cook the food prior to consumption. i aint seen many wild carnivores sitting around a campfires cooking its kill and telling ghost stories.

Another one if our evolution was somehow based on the fact that we consumed flesh to increase intelligence then why is it not that the REAL carnivores of our planet are not following us on the same evolutionary path or even ahead of us in terms of intelligence.

Also we breed the animals for our consumption so if we stopped that we would not be overpopulated but nice thought.

[Silver_Knight]

Then you would have understood 2 things:

#1 you don't need to eat both.
#2 Consumption of meat (red mostly) regardless of how much, or how it was prepared/preserved has been shown to have negative implications on your health.

I know that you don't need both. I've had seen vegans if you believe that.
Secondly i have also seen people that eat red meat everyday and there fine believe it or not.

@Marc. I know some people can't have a conversation without getting heated but it's okay.

[podsaurus]

Subjects of this nature will always get a tad heated when people talk about there belief's.

Ok so just a few points/questions again as mentioned previously the thought that the human body has evolved or is in somehow designed to consume flesh is imo false as if it were why the hell do we need to cook the food prior to consumption. i aint seen many wild carnivores sitting around a campfires cooking its kill and telling ghost stories.

Another one if our evolution was somehow based on the fact that we consumed flesh to increase intelligence then why is it not that the REAL carnivores of our planet are not following us on the same evolutionary path or even ahead of us in terms of intelligence.

Also we breed the animals for our consumption so if we stopped that we would not be overpopulated but nice thought.

I have no clue how cavemen first decided that throwing some meat on the fire would make it better but the obvious reason we cook our meat now is the destroy diseases that can come with it. Such as E.Coli or Salmonella.

And I don't know what kind of diseases are in say seal meat but I would think there's something. So when a shark eats a seal sometimes they will die of whatever disease that seal carried. If meat is really used to increase brain intelligence(not saying it for sure is or is not) but perhaps that is why other animals haven't evolved because they are still plagued by diseases that kill them off. Just speculation about that one.

I'll have to look at this more closely but I don't really think I'll give up meat any time soon. I still stick to what I said before. Plants are living things as well so things are still being killed for human consumption. I'm sorry to say but I don't believe it's possible to tip toe around everyone and not hurt anyone. Even with this post some people may vigorously disagree with me and that's ok.

There are winners and losers. The eaters and the eaten. And someone tell me but I can't think of a single food that doesn't come from some living thing. Unless you want to sit around and eat rocks.