Xbox 360 Successor the Xbox Loop? Hex Core CPU and 2GB Ram?

[mynd]

Not. going to happen. Halo 4 comes out then, MS wouldn't want it to overshadowed by a console launch.

Thats was my initial thinking as well.

I agree, Zune is a major failure. I think Microsoft should get rid of the name Zune... it just doesn't sound right.

You are right its an awfull name that has gained no traction.

Even the marketplace on Xbox360 lacks many movies that the other services like iTunes and PSN have, i know MS don't have a big foot in the entertainement industry with movies etc. but Apple does it, so can MS.

There are plenty of places around the world where there isnt anythign else.
In NZ, there is no other Digital service you can get like the one on the 360.

Now if only Sky would hook up with them I'd be a happy chappy.

The problem i have with Zune is, content, not enough of it, even Zune music pass lacks stuff that i want.

If MS wants me to use the Zune as my default "to go for" entertainement, they need to get their act together.

TBH I didnt even know you could use it for music, well not here anyway, its all movies.

[Sufi]

But was it all worth it?

Bluray "won" a format war for a failing format. Bluray isn't selling anywhere near DVD, and DVD is only selling at about half the rate of what it was 5 years ago.



With downloadable and on-demand movie popularity skyrocketing, it's looking a lot like Bluray sales will end up staying pretty much flat. It's certainly never going to achieve the market size of DVD, and it's never going to generate a large amount of income for Sony.

It's kind of like Sony bragging that their "Hi-8" camcorder format won the camcorder tape war, right as the whole world switched to memory cards.

And I would bet the short term outlook for 3D isn't much better. Sony may have attempted to leverage the PS3 to increase sales of 3D compatible products, but all they've achieved is financial losses and by the time the format is mainstream enough to generate profits the PS3 will have been replaced with something much better.

Good point and again, it's been talked about before.

Do you expect people to start downloading 30GB movies anytime soon? Sure, you can stream it and even that, most places don't even let you stream real 720p yet, much less true 1080p.

How else do you expect people to buy movies? I don't think anyone's going to start doing this soon...think about the space you'll be needing and essentially wasting.

HDD space is not worth keeping movies for...a disc can store 50GB and can be manufactured cheaply.

Blu Ray sales have more to do with the fact that you need an entirely new setup rather than to do with the fact that it's not needed. Well, most people don't care for anything over DVD quality and that's fine because DVD quality is pretty decent.

Unless you have seen a true 1080p movie on a large true 1080p TV. So we're getting there, just not enough demand for it right now. Most people play their DVDs on shitty interlaced TVs and it works fine, that's where DVD made sense.

[Inzane2050]

I hope 3D starts to take off. I hope Playstation make make it mandatory to support 3D for their games next gen to further support the 3D movement. Kinect has an amazing App for 3D, btw.

[Soldier 95B]

Sure, you can stream it and even that, most places don't even let you stream real 720p yet, much less true 1080p.

Most people don't even care, let alone know what 720p means. As long as they see the letters HD in the logo, they think they have HD and they are fine with that.

Most people play their DVDs on shitty interlaced TVs and it works fine, that's where DVD made sense.

And they are still doing that today, even on HDTV's. People are also now just watching the movies on demand from their satellite or cable providers instead of renting. Convenient and don't have to take back a movie.

[mynd]

Good point and again, it's been talked about before.

Do you expect people to start downloading 30GB movies anytime soon? Sure, you can stream it and even that, most places don't even let you stream real 720p yet, much less true 1080p.

How else do you expect people to buy movies? I don't think anyone's going to start doing this soon...think about the space you'll be needing and essentially wasting.

HDD space is not worth keeping movies for...a disc can store 50GB and can be manufactured cheaply.

Blu Ray sales have more to do with the fact that you need an entirely new setup rather than to do with the fact that it's not needed. Well, most people don't care for anything over DVD quality and that's fine because DVD quality is pretty decent.

Unless you have seen a true 1080p movie on a large true 1080p TV. So we're getting there, just not enough demand for it right now. Most people play their DVDs on shitty interlaced TVs and it works fine, that's where DVD made sense.

Blu ray makes sense if you have a large TV above 50 inches..
3d however doesnt make much sense at all, becausse the movie has to be retro fitted, or created in 3d.
Its so Niche, I cant see for example some of my more favouirte movies benifiting from 3d, or BR at all if Im watching them on my 43 inch Samsung.

[MATRIX 2]

??? The Zune as a device was a complete failboat, that's what I have been saying this entire time. Microsoft decided to take it into another direction because of the physical product's failings.

The Zune just did not go anywhere, period. It had zero traction. It could not compete with any of its direct competitors- the most significant of course being Apple. Them retiring it was simply the most prudent business decision...Like you said. Like what I knew from the get go.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/...fortune/4.html

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/ga..._illo_680x.jpg

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/04/02/microsofts-zune-misstep-marks-the-gadget-road-not-taken/


http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1898610_1898625_1898633,00.html


I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me..Unless you just wanted to for kicks and giggles. In fact this isn't even relevant to the topic or what I originally said anyways. Mention of the Zune occupied, like, a sentence in my initial post.

Considering how it was marketed/supported(in rather unconventional ways, the HD was on its own for a yr before MS axed it) it did pretty well. Not to mention the lack of availability outside the US or lac of content in non US zune marketplaces.

It did well enough for MS to continue the zune branding and maintain the zune marketplace.

Remember URGE? Probably not, that's what would have happened to zune marketplace if it didn't do well enough.

Halo 4 launch title for the next xbox perhaps. I can't think of a stronger game to launch with.

The issue is that since it is made by a new developer and is a ne trilogy/story arc MS has to prove that it will be worthwhile. Better to lure people in on the 360 as its dominant lifespan is ending to make sure the other 2 games on the trilogy succeed on the next xbox.

Halo 4 starts on the Xbox 360 as a new trilogy, so it will indeed be on the Xbox 360. Now that doesn't mean that it CAN'T be on the next generation Xbox either. People have released the same game on multiple generation consoles before (Battlefield 2: MC was on Xbox and Xbox 360, NCAA 11 was on PS2 and PS3). Anything is possible.

No, MS doesn't roll like that. Also see above.

I agree, Zune is a major failure. I think Microsoft should get rid of the name Zune... it just doesn't sound right.

Even the marketplace on Xbox360 lacks many movies that the other services like iTunes and PSN have, i know MS don't have a big foot in the entertainement industry with movies etc. but Apple does it, so can MS.

The problem i have with Zune is, content, not enough of it, even Zune music pass lacks stuff that i want.

If MS wants me to use the Zune as my default "to go for" entertainement, they need to get their act together.

#1 You are in Canada. Your marketplace content is limited compared to the US store.

#2 The reason for this is due to legal issues with the media owners allowing MS to distribute their content globally. Not MS's fault. Things are much better now that they were a few years ago, and will only continue to improve.





As for blu-ray it still hasn't reached the optimal penetration level yet.

HDTV penetration is still increasing.

Standalone blu-ray players still need to drop in price.

Blu-Ray drives have not yet become the de-facto standard on desktop and laptop computers.

Blank Blu-Ray media is still much more expensive than dual layer dvd media.

The PS3 is not $199.

Blu-Ray standards are not complexly defined/finished changing yet. (referring to BD XL capacity discs, and even higher capacity iterations of blu-ray that currently don't exist)

Blu-Ray movies still usually ship as a combo pack (with a dvd version, due to lack of blu-ray player penetrattion).

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

All these issues will either disappear or no longer be significant by the time the next xbox and PS4 come out.

Blu-Ray may very well be the last optical media every widely used, but I am sure it will have a very long life, probably longer than that of the DVD.

[J3ff3]

^ i'm sorry but i just disagree about penetration level.

bluray has not become the defacto standard on desktop and laptop computers, and the uptake in standalones is not as good as expected - because most people just DON'T CARE.

i've a current 40 inch samsung and while bluray looks nicer, the jump is not that great. i'll rent a few blurays, but i'm not bothered if i can only get hold of a dvd copy - because it doesn't really make much odds at that screen size.

this is the reason for relatively poor uptake. 46+ tvs are not the norm and dvds don't look bad on smaller sets. you can pick up a bluray player for less than the price of a new game now days (£35). but people don't need bluray so aren't willing to pay - how else do you explain people with HD sets but no BR player, when it costs the same price as eating out for a night or a crate of beer?

on the pc its slightly different. people just don't give a fuck. HDD space is cheap so as a storage medium it's slightly pointless, and the harddrive itself means that it isn't really required for software.

i'm sure bluray will replace the dvd over time, but it really isn't a necessity. you only have to look at HD rips to know that we could've lived without the format for a few more years.

[Sufi]

Most people don't even care, let alone know what 720p means. As long as they see the letters HD in the logo, they think they have HD and they are fine with that.



And they are still doing that today, even on HDTV's. People are also now just watching the movies on demand from their satellite or cable providers instead of renting. Convenient and don't have to take back a movie.

good point. however you can't sell someone a fake 720p or 1080p movie though so the problem still remains.

Blu ray makes sense if you have a large TV above 50 inches..
3d however doesnt make much sense at all, becausse the movie has to be retro fitted, or created in 3d.
Its so Niche, I cant see for example some of my more favouirte movies benifiting from 3d, or BR at all if Im watching them on my 43 inch Samsung.

i agree. 50 inch or above for me or i wouldn't care about 1080p but generally 42 inch is decent for 1080p.

[J3ff3]

good point. however you can't sell someone a fake 720p or 1080p movie though so the problem still remains.
i agree. 50 inch or above for me or i wouldn't care about 1080p but generally 42 inch is decent for 1080p.

but its not really about what is decent for 1080p, its about what dvd isn't decent for.

for high adoption rates the format has to show overtly that it is worth the money. i honestly don't think it has for the mainstream, and i think 3d hasn't a hope in hell

[itachi73378]

So lets sum up what happened in this thread shall we:

Started on xbox loop
Drifted to why ps3 architecture was bad
argued WHY cell architecture was made the way it is
Compared Sony and Nintendo marketing/business polices
Blu vs DVD (currently going on)

[Sufi]

but its not really about what is decent for 1080p, its about what dvd isn't decent for.

for high adoption rates the format has to show overtly that it is worth the money. i honestly don't think it has for the mainstream, and i think 3d hasn't a hope in hell

most people can't tell or care about the difference. the difference is there...i believe just as much as it was from VHS to DVD.

the problem is that unlike the DVD, you need a totally new TV (that specifically supports true 1080p) to enjoy Blu-ray and thus why I think it's not catching on as quick. Also that people already have movies that they care for so I'm sure the only blu-ray movies sell that have newer movies. I think it will be another 5 years or so before people even start to care about collecting blu-ray movies or even longer for people that wanna switch their movie collection from DVD to Blu-ray...in fact, for most, it may never happen.

Most likely the enthusiasts will.

[MATRIX 2]

^ i'm sorry but i just disagree about penetration level.

bluray has not become the defacto standard on desktop and laptop computers, and the uptake in standalones is not as good as expected - because most people just DON'T CARE.

i've a current 40 inch samsung and while bluray looks nicer, the jump is not that great. i'll rent a few blurays, but i'm not bothered if i can only get hold of a dvd copy - because it doesn't really make much odds at that screen size.

this is the reason for relatively poor uptake. 46+ tvs are not the norm and dvds don't look bad on smaller sets. you can pick up a bluray player for less than the price of a new game now days (£35). but people don't need bluray so aren't willing to pay - how else do you explain people with HD sets but no BR player, when it costs the same price as eating out for a night or a crate of beer?

on the pc its slightly different. people just don't give a fuck. HDD space is cheap so as a storage medium it's slightly pointless, and the harddrive itself means that it isn't really required for software.

i'm sure bluray will replace the dvd over time, but it really isn't a necessity. you only have to look at HD rips to know that we could've lived without the format for a few more years.

#1 The quality of blu-ray movies varies greatly, some a great and some are so bad the dvd versions look better.

#2 Viewing distance is the main factor on how much better blu-ray appears to be over dvd. Not resolution (be it 1080p or 720p). If you can't tell the difference (assuming you have decent eyesight) you are sitting too far away from your tv. (might not also be calibrated/set up properly)

The problem is that many people have half-assed/improperly set up tv's/ht systems so they are not able to get the full benefit from blu-ray. (improved video and audio quality).

I think you may want to revise your statement about HDD prices. They are off the charts. It is much cheaper to burn something to a blu-ray disk than it is to store that data on a similarly sized flash drive/memory card.

The same issue was present when computers began the transition from CD to DVD. It takes more time for that transition to happen on pc's.

Not sure what you are trying to say about HD rips, since they are created from blu-ray discs.

[J3ff3]

#1 The quality of blu-ray movies varies greatly, some a great and some are so bad the dvd versions look better.

yeah of course, i wasn't arguing any different.

#2 Viewing distance is the main factor on how much better blu-ray appears to be over dvd. Not resolution (be it 1080p or 720p). If you can't tell the difference (assuming you have decent eyesight) you are sitting too far away from your tv. (might not also be calibrated/set up properly)

i know. i sit close to my 1080p tv. ridiculously close.

The problem is that many people have half-assed/improperly set up tv's/ht systems so they are not able to get the full benefit from blu-ray. (improved video and audio quality).

true. again another reason i said we could probably have survived without bluray for a while. so many tv's - even half decent ones - have terrible pictures, even when calibrated correctly. what chance does bluray really have until lower end tvs up their game?

I think you may want to revise your statement about HDD prices. They are off the charts. It is much cheaper to burn something to a blu-ray disk than it is to store that data on a similarly sized flash drive/memory card.

i said HDD prices are so cheap bluray is pretty pointless. it is. i'm not talking relative cost /gb - i'm talking absolute cost. for £60 i got a 2TB HDD recently. i've got 4TB in total. what is it that is urging me to buy a bluray drive on my PC? i don't get it? i'm sure it will happen, but its a luxury, nothing more. hence slow uptake.

Not sure what you are trying to say about HD rips, since they are created from blu-ray discs.

just that within the size of a dvd disc, and with good compression, you can get a picture that looks good on a large hdtv. that's all.

[MATRIX 2]

yeah of course, i wasn't arguing any different.


i know. i sit close to my 1080p tv. ridiculously close.


true. again another reason i said we could probably have survived without bluray for a while. so many tv's - even half decent ones - have terrible pictures, even when calibrated correctly. what chance does bluray really have until lower end tvs up their game?


i said HDD prices are so cheap bluray is pretty pointless. it is. i'm not talking relative cost /gb - i'm talking absolute cost. for £60 i got a 2TB HDD recently. i've got 4TB in total. what is it that is urging me to buy a bluray drive on my PC? i don't get it? i'm sure it will happen, but its a luxury, nothing more. hence slow uptake.


just that within the size of a dvd disc, and with good compression, you can get a picture that looks good on a large hdtv. that's all.

Well as far as low quality tv's are concerned, if you get a plasma today you will be fine. LCD tv's have gone to shit, though.

As for the HDD's I ask that you look up the cost for that same HDD today from wherever you bought it (retail store, website, amazon ,ect.)

I guarantee you it won't be 60 pounds.

[mynd]

Well as far as low quality tv's are concerned, if you get a plasma today you will be fine. LCD tv's have gone to shit, though.

As for the HDD's I ask that you look up the cost for that same HDD today from wherever you bought it (retail store, website, amazon ,ect.)

I guarantee you it won't be 60 pounds.

Those dam floods have hit the HDD market hard....

I wonder how that will affect Sony and MS with their hard drive orders for Xmas?

[MATRIX 2]

Those dam floods have hit the HDD market hard....

I wonder how that will affect Sony and MS with their hard drive orders for Xmas?

I'm sure they have enough inventory for a few months. Shouldn't affect them unless the shortage lasts past Feb./March.

[Sub-stance1]

Loop is a funny name. Whatever its gonna be called i know its gonna gonna be an awesome console just like the 360 is. MS will continue to lead into the next gen with awesome games and the best online service. The 360 is definitely a classic.

[Sufi]

^Oh I thought you were someone else for a second.

General PR statements without getting paid makes me puke.

[mynd]

^Oh I thought you were someone else for a second.

General PR statements without getting paid makes me puke.

LOL, I think he's aiming for that, lets face it imitaiton is the best form of flattery.

[Sub-stance1]

LOL, I think he's aiming for that, lets face it imitaiton is the bets for of flattery.

yes sir.... but the difference is that i'm telling the truth.

[PsychoMantis]

I just hope that MS has all their ducks in a row as far as quality of systems they sell. They had a huge number of consoles with RROD and gamers getting pissed off because of it. If MS takes their time with it and don't rush the console it should be smooth. As for the PS4, I see Sony cramming lots of high tech stuff into it further jacking up the price like we saw with the PS3. Although BD Drives are cheaper now hopefully Sony won't go overboard and have the PS4 cost alot.

[Inzane2050]

Just bcuz the Xbox 360 released earlier does not mean it was rushed. ATI's chipset is what caused the RROD.

[itachi73378]

Just bcuz the Xbox 360 released earlier does not mean it was rushed. ATI's chipset is what caused the RROD.

It was rushed. I don't care what caused the rrod, bottom line is hardware failure rate was very high and only microsoft is to blame.

[Inzane2050]

They both had the same amount of time allotted to GPU R&D. So both were rushed consoles then

[itachi73378]

They both had the same amount of time allotted to GPU R&D. So both were rushed consoles then

How do you explain higher failure rates on 360 then?