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Thread: All the same?

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    All the same?

    Why are all the Call of Duty games almost exactly the same? I enjoy them relatively, but no changes are ever made to make the game better. It seems to me as if they re-purpose the same game over and over again when they could just make it another map pack.


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    Do we really need another one of these threads? Is this some sort of rubbish just to inflate post count? They do it because it sells. It brings in a ton of money with minimal effort. Also, why would they WANT to make drastic changes that alter the core game. People buy it for a reason, because they know what to expect. They can't go making tons of changes or it will simply fracture their fan base and cost them money. You can't please everyone. You may not like it but millions of people do, and majority rules so suck it up or find a new game.

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    It's weird that COD is the only game series that gets this.

    Why are all God of Wars the same?
    Why are all Uncharteds the same?
    Why are all Halos the same?

    All of these (just to name a few) have never really changed their gameplay formula. Minor changes, new weapons, new story, same gameplay. I don't mind it with these games, and I don't mind it with COD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuseFanSam View Post
    Why are all the Call of Duty games almost exactly the same? I enjoy them relatively, but no changes are ever made to make the game better. It seems to me as if they re-purpose the same game over and over again when they could just make it another map pack.
    Because people keep buying them.

    Reason why people keep buying them is because they came up with an incredibly addictive idea on how to make a multiplayer game and it stuck. All they have to do now is make tweaks and add flash to it to sell it over and over again.

    Up until BF3, I would also find all the installments cool, regardless of whatever small changes they had, they were still enough to buy the game.

    I don't blame them for not trying anything new or completely abandon their formula...it works!

    It's easy to get into, it's addictive. I know I always get to the highest level with all the unlocks before I put down the game. The game introduced so many amazing things that every game follows a similar formula. i.e. unlocks, attachments, levels, ribbons, tags, health regen, aiming through scopes to shoot accurately, slowing down character during aiming, smooth controls, autoaim, redefined respawn games etc. etc. and etc.

    Though hp regen and autoaim was inspired from Halo...which is another game that changed the FPS scene.

    Though COD: MW has been the biggest influence this generation and I think the biggest in the recent history.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kakihara_Anjo View Post
    It's weird that COD is the only game series that gets this.

    Why are all God of Wars the same?
    Why are all Uncharteds the same?
    Why are all Halos the same?

    All of these (just to name a few) have never really changed their gameplay formula. Minor changes, new weapons, new story, same gameplay. I don't mind it with these games, and I don't mind it with COD.
    But all of the games that you mentioned always have a very fleshed out storyline so that's why they are still entertaining.

    COD on the other hand, relies completely on its multiplayer, which is generally just tweaks and a marketing budget.

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    Because they're the all in the same franchise.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    But all of the games that you mentioned always have a very fleshed out storyline so that's why they are still entertaining.

    COD on the other hand, relies completely on its multiplayer, which is generally just tweaks and a marketing budget.
    I could do the same for heavy multi player games.
    Halo
    Gears of war
    Far Cry
    Killzone (between 2 and 3)
    etc.


    but that would be besides the point.

    imo a game can not hold up on story alone. Gameplay is far more important. If all I cared about was a good story, I'd read a book, which would have far more intricate plot, more flushed out characters etc.

    Its just fashionable to bash COD right now, and this is just one of the more popular insults.

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    Yeah they're the same. But we get a thread like this at least once a week. Gets old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakihara_Anjo View Post
    It's weird that COD is the only game series that gets this.

    Why are all God of Wars the same?
    Why are all Uncharteds the same?
    Why are all Halos the same?

    All of these (just to name a few) have never really changed their gameplay formula. Minor changes, new weapons, new story, same gameplay. I don't mind it with these games, and I don't mind it with COD.
    Exactly. Those are my same thoughts as well.

    I buy COD to play COD. I don't buy COD because it's no longer COD. I buy Uncharted because it's Uncharted. If one doesn't like the game style, don't buy it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakihara_Anjo View Post
    It's weird that COD is the only game series that gets this.

    Why are all God of Wars the same?
    Why are all Uncharteds the same?
    Why are all Halos the same?

    All of these (just to name a few) have never really changed their gameplay formula. Minor changes, new weapons, new story, same gameplay. I don't mind it with these games, and I don't mind it with COD.
    Yep. The only reason it gets so much flack is, "It's not pretty", "It's outdated", "It's stale." When in comparison those titles don't bring anything substantially new to the table every time. Not to say it is a bad thing because they follow the same mold. They found a formula that works good and everyone loves it. Why change it drastically? I brought this up in another thread but left it alone because I didn't want to derail it. Look at AC, I love the games. The story is great but overall the game has remained relatively unchanged for 3 installments now. It works well so why change it. All this falls down on is people hate it because it sells a lot. You know how people like to hate on the victor and root for the underdogs.

    Madden get's a lot of hate because of the same thing. But I will say as a big fan of the series since 2000, they are making changes for the worst and it deserves the flack it gets. They are starting to cater more to the casual. Big no no for well established franchises.




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    Quote Originally Posted by ps3freak18 View Post
    Madden get's a lot of hate because of the same thing. But I will say as a big fan of the series since 2000, they are making changes for the worst and it deserves the flack it gets. They are starting to cater more to the casual. Big no no for well established franchises.
    I agree with this, I think Madden peaked in 08, maybe 09. I would rather just pay $15 a year for the updated rosters, it's the only reason I picked up 12.

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    And there's me thinking this was another thread about Call of Duty again... oh wait

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkFury-EX View Post
    And there's me thinking this was another thread about Call of Duty again... oh wait
    In, would you believe it... the Call of Duty section... No-$#@!ing-way

    But seriously, i've never really understood what changes people think CoD needs? I think they just want it to change for the sake of changing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    In, would you believe it... the Call of Duty section... No-$#@!ing-way

    But seriously, i've never really understood what changes people think CoD needs? I think they just want it to change for the sake of changing.
    Me either. It doesn't make much sense. I could understand maybe a little graphical update but not like the game looks bad. Still holds up well for today's standards. There are still other games out there that look much worse.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Because people keep buying them.

    Though COD: MW has been the biggest influence this generation and I think the biggest in the recent history.
    But all of the games that you mentioned always have a very fleshed out storyline so that's why they are still entertaining.

    COD on the other hand, relies completely on its multiplayer, which is generally just tweaks and a marketing budget.
    You must not play the campaign modes in these games. Call of Duty first made a name for itself as being an epic single player experience. COD multiplayer has only been a big deal since COD4, which had the defining campaign of this generation when it came out. MW2 continued the story and had a number of memorable set pieces. It's hard to talk about that campaign and not bring up No Russian or fighting your way to the white house while the capital is under attack. I just finished MW3 a few days ago and it is an excellent end to the story that started 4 years ago. Say what you will about Treyarch, but they also made some amazing campaigns and added zombies to the mix. Part of the reason COD sells so well is because it has an amazing story mode and multiplayer. Neither one feels tacked on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuseFanSam View Post
    Why are all the Call of Duty games almost exactly the same? I enjoy them relatively, but no changes are ever made to make the game better. It seems to me as if they re-purpose the same game over and over again when they could just make it another map pack.
    Can you give a list of things you think would make the game better, changes...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeDubya View Post
    You must not play the campaign modes in these games. Call of Duty first made a name for itself as being an epic single player experience. COD multiplayer has only been a big deal since COD4, which had the defining campaign of this generation when it came out. MW2 continued the story and had a number of memorable set pieces. It's hard to talk about that campaign and not bring up No Russian or fighting your way to the white house while the capital is under attack. I just finished MW3 a few days ago and it is an excellent end to the story that started 4 years ago. Say what you will about Treyarch, but they also made some amazing campaigns and added zombies to the mix. Part of the reason COD sells so well is because it has an amazing story mode and multiplayer. Neither one feels tacked on.
    COD campaign ever since COD:MW has been a joke. Yea they're flashy but nothing fleshed out like they used to.

    I have played COD 1 and it was incredible. Have not played 2 and 3 but they also seem pretty cool.

    If you guys think these campaigns are awesome then I suggest you guys pick up some of the older WWII games on PC. These games are a joke when looking at single player only.

    I always used to think how could anyone top steven speilberg's directed scene of the Normandy beach from Medal of Honor: Allied Assault and the truth is, nothing ever did. All of these games try to copy MOH: AA and they just can't do the same magic that game had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    COD campaign ever since COD:MW has been a joke. Yea they're flashy but nothing fleshed out like they used to.

    I have played COD 1 and it was incredible. Have not played 2 and 3 but they also seem pretty cool.

    If you guys think these campaigns are awesome then I suggest you guys pick up some of the older WWII games on PC. These games are a joke when looking at single player only.

    I always used to think how could anyone top steven speilberg's directed scene of the Normandy beach from Medal of Honor: Allied Assault and the truth is, nothing ever did. All of these games try to copy MOH: AA and they just can't do the same magic that game had.
    I remember playing that back in high school. It was pretty epic. Have you played all the campaigns? If so I respect your opinion, but I think all of the COD campaigns have been awesome. Except 3. I'd rather pretend that one never happened. If you liked the first modern warfare I'm having a hard time understanding how you could not enjoy the others. All three feel the same and have great set pieces and story lines. They are all alike, which could be a bad thing if the original wasn't so great. To each their own I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeDubya View Post
    I remember playing that back in high school. It was pretty epic. Have you played all the campaigns? If so I respect your opinion, but I think all of the COD campaigns have been awesome. Except 3. I'd rather pretend that one never happened. If you liked the first modern warfare I'm having a hard time understanding how you could not enjoy the others. All three feel the same and have great set pieces and story lines. They are all alike, which could be a bad thing if the original wasn't so great. To each their own I guess.
    Ok I get it. You're thinking COD 1 is COD: MW.

    I'm talking about COD that came out about a decade ago on PC.

    COD: MW campaign was a joke. MW2 actually had an ok campaign. Didn't play WaW. Black Ops had a decent campaign, probably the best since before MW.

    Overall this generation, COD's single player has been nothing but flash. Some parts are cool (generally cutscenes) but AI is dumb, stupid unlimited respawn wave is stupid.

    IW knows how to make an online shooter for sure, they don't know how to make a campaign. They don't know how to do AI. All of these things are important.

    There's no better single player campaign better than MOH: AA as far as FPS in a war setting is concerned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Ok I get it. You're thinking COD 1 is COD: MW.

    I'm talking about COD that came out about a decade ago on PC.

    COD: MW campaign was a joke. MW2 actually had an ok campaign. Didn't play WaW. Black Ops had a decent campaign, probably the best since before MW.

    Overall this generation, COD's single player has been nothing but flash. Some parts are cool (generally cutscenes) but AI is dumb, stupid unlimited respawn wave is stupid.

    IW knows how to make an online shooter for sure, they don't know how to make a campaign. They don't know how to do AI. All of these things are important.

    There's no better single player campaign better than MOH: AA as far as FPS in a war setting is concerned.
    Infinity Ward made the first 2 COD games which you like. Did they just forget how to make a good game after that? I have loved every Call of Duty game since the first, except for 3. If it's not the best of all time in your opinion certainly there can still be room for it to be pretty good. FPS is a very broad genre that can do a number of things. You have games like allied assault that are great at telling the story of war, but are pretty linear when you think about it. Play through the game a number of times and you can beat the levels with your eyes closed because every enemy will be in the same spot most of the time. Then there are the Tom Clancy games (the good ones anyways) that are a lot more open ended in how you play. COD is a more linear game that tries to give you a certain experience. The parts of the game with unlimited respawn are moments when you need to push forward in the middle of a huge battle. They can't throw 1,000 enemies at you at one time, so they set the game up so there are always enemies that you have to deal with as you move along. It's a tool a number of linear games use to force you into a certain experience, not just let you hole up somewhere until all the bad guys are dead. If I remember correctly, allied assault had a couple of moments like this. Even if they were a little more subtle. Any AI will have its issues, and you'll always be able to find a critisism. Assuming the AI isn't game breaking, the important thing is really how the developer uses it. If you didn't like COD 4 that's your opinion, but you're in the minority there. It has been widely considered one of the best campaigns of the current generation, and one of the best FPS campaigns of all time. When you say the campaigns are all flash, what does that mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeDubya View Post
    Infinity Ward made the first 2 COD games which you like. Did they just forget how to make a good game after that? I have loved every Call of Duty game since the first, except for 3. If it's not the best of all time in your opinion certainly there can still be room for it to be pretty good. FPS is a very broad genre that can do a number of things. You have games like allied assault that are great at telling the story of war, but are pretty linear when you think about it. Play through the game a number of times and you can beat the levels with your eyes closed because every enemy will be in the same spot most of the time. Then there are the Tom Clancy games (the good ones anyways) that are a lot more open ended in how you play. COD is a more linear game that tries to give you a certain experience. The parts of the game with unlimited respawn are moments when you need to push forward in the middle of a huge battle. They can't throw 1,000 enemies at you at one time, so they set the game up so there are always enemies that you have to deal with as you move along. It's a tool a number of linear games use to force you into a certain experience, not just let you hole up somewhere until all the bad guys are dead. If I remember correctly, allied assault had a couple of moments like this. Even if they were a little more subtle. Any AI will have its issues, and you'll always be able to find a critisism. Assuming the AI isn't game breaking, the important thing is really how the developer uses it. If you didn't like COD 4 that's your opinion, but you're in the minority there. It has been widely considered one of the best campaigns of the current generation, and one of the best FPS campaigns of all time. When you say the campaigns are all flash, what does that mean?
    Flash as in, they try to set the game up as if it was really cool but the actual gameplay is generic.

    I get your point...honestly I hate the way they wanted you to go ahead to stop the rush, that's stupid imo. It works fine if you have a set amount of enemies every once in a while, I don't know why they feel otherwise. A lot of people found that annoying, not just me.

    And I will agree with everything else except that this game is known for its campaign and that it's the best or one of the best this generation. If that's true then I'd be saddened with the current state of FPS games. You may be right though...but not due to the fact that the game has a great campaign but because single player has been pretty $#@!ty for FPS recently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Flash as in, they try to set the game up as if it was really cool but the actual gameplay is generic.

    I get your point...honestly I hate the way they wanted you to go ahead to stop the rush, that's stupid imo. It works fine if you have a set amount of enemies every once in a while, I don't know why they feel otherwise. A lot of people found that annoying, not just me.

    And I will agree with everything else except that this game is known for its campaign and that it's the best or one of the best this generation. If that's true then I'd be saddened with the current state of FPS games. You may be right though...but not due to the fact that the game has a great campaign but because single player has been pretty $#@!ty for FPS recently.
    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/832/832599p1.html
    http://www.gamespot.com/call-of-duty...review-6182426

    A couple of reviews of COD4. Not trying to shove anything down your throat, just linking to what people said about the game when it first came out. Modern Warfare was basically the same formula they built with COD 1 and 2 just set in present day with a real story. Honestly I did think it was pretty cool to have a failed assassination attempt and have to hold off hordes of enemies until a chopper came. That was one of those endless respawn moments. Are there any other modern military shooters you enjoy? It sounds like you just prefer games set in actual wars from the past. In that case I would recommend you play world at war. I think that holds its own pretty well against even the first 2 call of duty games as a great WWII shooter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    COD campaign ever since COD:MW has been a joke. Yea they're flashy but nothing fleshed out like they used to.

    I have played COD 1 and it was incredible. Have not played 2 and 3 but they also seem pretty cool.

    If you guys think these campaigns are awesome then I suggest you guys pick up some of the older WWII games on PC. These games are a joke when looking at single player only.

    I always used to think how could anyone top steven speilberg's directed scene of the Normandy beach from Medal of Honor: Allied Assault and the truth is, nothing ever did. All of these games try to copy MOH: AA and they just can't do the same magic that game had.
    MOH: AA was developed by 2015 inc who went on to become Infinity Ward. Stupidly, West and Zampella sold Infinity Ward and Call of Duty to Activision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeDubya View Post
    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/832/832599p1.html
    http://www.gamespot.com/call-of-duty...review-6182426

    A couple of reviews of COD4. Not trying to shove anything down your throat, just linking to what people said about the game when it first came out. Modern Warfare was basically the same formula they built with COD 1 and 2 just set in present day with a real story. Honestly I did think it was pretty cool to have a failed assassination attempt and have to hold off hordes of enemies until a chopper came. That was one of those endless respawn moments. Are there any other modern military shooters you enjoy? It sounds like you just prefer games set in actual wars from the past. In that case I would recommend you play world at war. I think that holds its own pretty well against even the first 2 call of duty games as a great WWII shooter.
    There were some cool things in the first MW campaign...much more so than other MW games (such as the part where you're a sniper and you have to fend off enemies) though I think BO is the best out of all recent CODs.

    My biggest problem with all of these new campaigns is that they weren't challenging enough, you don't need to take cover, you don't need strategy. In the older war-setting games, every single corner would end up in a good amount of gun battle.

    That's really the thing I'm talking about. Also the autoaiming...pffft. Too easy. Even the MOH on PS1 was hardcore when I first used it with both analogs.

    AI can really make or break a game. Also the direction of the game. It felt like they wanted to make things look cool rather than putting you in difficult war-like situations. Modern Warfare really had less to do with war and more to do with following some villain and trying to kill him.

    Direction-wise, they made the game easy on purpose for the casuals...not only that, you could aim close to someone and your red dot or iron sights would go right over the enemy's forehead. Wow, thanks for the help! To me the difference between these new campaigns and the older ones is similar to the difference between a nice restaurant and a nice fast food place.

    Dumb, short, and trying to make it look good but it's not. I guess you could say that it's also more accessible/convenient (which would analogize the easy part).


    Quote Originally Posted by R3D D3V!L View Post
    MOH: AA was developed by 2015 inc who went on to become Infinity Ward. Stupidly, West and Zampella sold Infinity Ward and Call of Duty to Activision.
    Ah I see. Interesting because they also made COD which was in direct competition with MOH: AA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    There were some cool things in the first MW campaign...much more so than other MW games (such as the part where you're a sniper and you have to fend off enemies) though I think BO is the best out of all recent CODs.

    My biggest problem with all of these new campaigns is that they weren't challenging enough, you don't need to take cover, you don't need strategy. In the older war-setting games, every single corner would end up in a good amount of gun battle.

    That's really the thing I'm talking about. Also the autoaiming...pffft. Too easy. Even the MOH on PS1 was hardcore when I first used it with both analogs.

    AI can really make or break a game. Also the direction of the game. It felt like they wanted to make things look cool rather than putting you in difficult war-like situations. Modern Warfare really had less to do with war and more to do with following some villain and trying to kill him.

    Direction-wise, they made the game easy on purpose for the casuals...not only that, you could aim close to someone and your red dot or iron sights would go right over the enemy's forehead. Wow, thanks for the help! To me the difference between these new campaigns and the older ones is similar to the difference between a nice restaurant and a nice fast food place.

    Dumb, short, and trying to make it look good but it's not. I guess you could say that it's also more accessible/convenient (which would analogize the easy part).


    Ah I see. Interesting because they also made COD which was in direct competition with MOH: AA.
    The first Call of Duty came out a year after Allied Assault. As far as difficulty, just play on the harder settings. Even with auto aim I wouldn't call it easy. I don't think it was made for casual players so much as just trying to do something new. When the first MW came out almost every other war game was set in WWII. Great atmosphere, but it was played out. What war like settings are you looking for? When it comes down to it all there can be is 2 groups of guys with guns shooting at each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeDubya View Post
    The first Call of Duty came out a year after Allied Assault. As far as difficulty, just play on the harder settings.
    I never play any games on easy or anything lower than the hardest.

    Even with auto aim I wouldn't call it easy. I don't think it was made for casual players so much as just trying to do something new.
    I found it to be one of the easiest shooters I'd ever played. Try playing the older Ghost Recon or Rainbow Six games.

    MW and games after that have always been easy for me. To the point where it's boring.

    When the first MW came out almost every other war game was set in WWII.
    Like?

    Great atmosphere, but it was played out. What war like settings are you looking for? When it comes down to it all there can be is 2 groups of guys with guns shooting at each other.
    Fine, I agree that it was played out for sure. That's not even the issue. My issue is that these campaigns are just not satisfying enough to play through more than once. Whatever they're doing now just seems like they're focusing more on production values (i.e. cool effects, cutscenes etc.) rather than putting you in interesting situations or working on enemy AI.

    Their focus was online and they did great but honestly it shows that they didn't care much about single player.

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