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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Uncharted's scale is not that much bigger. And scale has more to do with RAM, which the PS3 is lacking in. The Xbox has the clearly superior memory architecture so you can't say that Final Fantasy XIII's graphics and scale were held back to fit on Xbox.
    PS3's RAM is more difficult to deal with but it's far superior than 360's. Partially because Cell takes care of a lot of the GPU functions.

    So in general, I'd say 360's RAM structure takes the cake because it's easier to extract the power out of it but if you have a dedicated developer who will work hard to take advantage of the system, PS3 has the advantage when it comes to fitting things.

    Thus why you see PS3 sometimes missing objects in multiplat games (due to hard-to-access RAM) but generally more things and objects in PS3 exclusives than 360 exclusives.

    PS3 has the potential but it's almost a moot point due to the difficult structure.

    The PS3 is definitely closer to x1.5 more powerful, but you won't see a bigger difference between the two bcuz the law of diminishing returns has become more evident this generation.
    That's why I mentioned real world performance.

    But if the PS3 is really only capable of x1.15 more power, then there is no way the game was gimped visually, especially given that Xbox version received the 30% decrease in resolution.

    Final Fantasy XIII took advantage of all the engine's capabilities and had great detail to the environment. Final Fantasy looks so great bcuz that is all they focused on with that game and thus Toriyama ruined the game in every way.
    Well that's just the problem, isn't it? They took advantage of an already gimped engine. The engine wasn't specifically made from the ground up for the PS3 and if it was, there's no way they didn't think of 360 in the process.

    Either way you look at it, the game got shafted.

  2. #102
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    The Xbox 360 memory architecture is superior. What you said doesn't actually change that at all. Trust me.

    And what I said regarding the PS3's power is real world performance. The Cell BE achieves around 140 megaflops with 5 SPEs in actual practice.

    The engine was never gimped. Xbox 360 is capable of the same shading techniques the PS3 has and vice versa. The game was absolutely beautiful and you love the visuals as well. You are only saying otherwise bcuz Final Fantasy appeared on another platform. Out of all the things wrong with the game, you choose to complain about the one thing they actually did right
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Making the game for more than one platform means they can afford more of a budget. This applies to every game that exists. But regardless, out of how many of the $100 million odd dollars do you think was spent on the extremely easy, cheap, and lazy port that is the Xbox version of the game?
    What was the PS3 release date? What was the 360 release date? Every single last man-hour spent on the 360 port was an hour SE robbed the fans of the game they promised. Games don't develop themselves. Games do not port themselves. SE didn't run FFXIII through the Magic Port Machine and spit out gold DVDs. It took time. It took resources.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    The Xbox 360 memory architecture is superior. What you said doesn't actually change that at all. Trust me.
    Horse $#@!. Look up XDR.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudie View Post
    It's obvious that gamers no longer have an appetite for traditional turn-based rpgs. If they did games like Resonance of Fate, Valkyria Chronicles, Lost Odyssey and Trinity Souls of Zill ( w/e it's called )would have sold millions.

    Like it or not, gamers tastes have changed and developers have to change with it. It's all about appealling to the crowd that wants to run through a game without the need for strategy or the need to spend hours taking turns knocking monsters over the head. The few of us that appreciate the old school games are the minority and with fewer developers willing to invest in a good old fashion rpg the situation is only going to get worse.

    Take a look at Sony. They're developing several first-person shooters, action games, racing games and platformers but where is the big budgeted 1st party role-playing game?
    Even though it's second party, it's called White Knight Chronicles (just purchased these two games by the way). I don't think Sony has developed a big budget first party role playing game since the days of Legend of Dragoon, when they were inspired by the success of Final Fantasy VII. Certainly they haven't done so with the PS3 and I wouldn't call something like Arc the Lad big budget, even though I did enjoy the PS2 iteration I played. But I do see your point, where is this big budget role playing production? I'd like to know the same thing.

    In regards to the thread, Final Fantasy XIII was the last JRPG that I have played and completed. I purchased it on release and was hoping for the best, and was at length let down. While a mainline Final Fantasy game in the vein of an action rpg does sound intriguing, aren't they already doing this with Versus? I rather enjoyed FF XIII's battle system (which is the best thing about the game in my opinion)
    but I don't know if I want to play Final Fantasy XV as an action rpg.

    (Square) Enix used to resonate with me so much as a company it was almost staggering. Why can't they just follow their hearts? That would simplify so much of their decisions.

    I had since took an extended break from JRPGs after I completed Final Fantasy XIII and discovered that I could also enjoy Western rpgs, particularly Bethesda's model, but now I'm looking to get back into the genre. It seems almost a given though that the next mainline entry in the Final Fantasy series will be an action rpg, as they almost never give away information like this without it having some substance. I guess I'll see how much it resonates with me, but I'd very much like to see the company producing games in the vein of yester year.


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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    The Xbox 360 memory architecture is superior. What you said doesn't actually change that at all. Trust me.
    lol no you trust me. It's superior in performance.

    What you're saying is the architecture, which I did agree with, it is difficult due to its split architecture. In that respect, you can say that it's superior.

    Overall, performance-wise, the PS3's RAM is still superior...the only issue is that you'd need a good developer to take use. Which is why I gave multiplat example as to why PS3 ports have issues. I prefer 360's direction this generation but that doesn't change the fact that XDR wipes the floor with GDDR3. It's another thing that XDR isn't primarily a graphics RAM but then again, Cell acts like a semi-GPU anyway.

    And what I said regarding the PS3's power is real world performance. The Cell BE achieves around 140 megaflops with 5 SPEs in actual practice.
    And? What matters is what shows in the video games and to me, UC3 and Gears 3 aren't 1.5x apart.

    The engine was never gimped.
    They completely changed the engine in the middle of the development.

    Xbox 360 is capable of the same shading techniques the PS3 has and vice versa.
    Are we still talking about graphics only?

    The game was absolutely beautiful and you love the visuals as well.
    I think it was a gorgeous game.

    You are only saying otherwise bcuz Final Fantasy appeared on another platform.
    Couldn't care less. The last good FF game I played was 7. Recently I played the older ones which are superior to all other...point is: I don't care about SE or FF. Not unless they make something remotely as good as DQ or their older installments for that matter.

    Out of all the things wrong with the game, you choose to complain about the one thing they actually did right
    What did they do right? Graphics? I have no issue with graphics but of course they could make it better if it was made from the ground up for one console in mind.

    FFXIII had great graphics but it never held the crown for anything.

    What I'm talking about is what they could've done with scale and the general design of it (taken advantage of the HDD to make bigger worlds). In no way I'm saying that was going to happen, were it an exclusive or that the game wasn't going to suck...because I'm positive they probably didn't care to use the full potential of the PS3 and they were probably still going to make a $#@!ty game.

    I'm only saying that a multiplat game will naturally never be as good as a game (in many ways, more than just graphics) that was made with a specific architecture in mind.

    Had they made the game just for the 360, it would've been better than what we see right now, as far as technical achievement is concerned.

  6. #106
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    What you said is all false, especially the part about a game being of lesser visuals by being multiplat.

    Also, the PS3 XDR DRAM is not that much faster than DDR3, and little if any benefit is there. But how does the speed of the RAM having anything to do with "fitting the game assets into the memory"? That's a matter of the amount of RAM which Xbox is superior in. Also, FFXIII did make use of the HDD, just like all of Sony's in-house games.
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    What you said is all false, especially the part about a game being of lesser visuals by being multiplat.

    Also, the PS3 XDR DRAM is not that much faster than DDR3, and little if any benefit is there. But how does the speed of the RAM having anything to do with "fitting the game assets into the memory"? That's a matter of the amount of RAM which Xbox is superior in. Also, FFXIII did make use of the HDD, just like all of Sony's in-house games.


    Its twice as fast

  8. #108
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    You are showing x16 cycles with a clock at 4.8GHz. That is not what is in the PS3.
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  9. #109
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    Yeah I read XDR is actually 5 times faster
    also I believe the xdr runs at 400mhz in ps3
    ddr3 runs at 100mhz in xbox360

    I may be wrong about the frequencies
    Last edited by Itachi; 11-21-2011 at 21:38.

  10. #110
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    Why can't SE put just as much attention in their others games other then Final Fantasy. I'm serious, it's like FF is their prize game so all the other RPG games they have to half-ass. I would like to see Other RPG's of theirs with just as much attention. I doubt that will ever happen, it seems Square/Enix have there ways set for Final Fantasy and I personally think because they concentrate on just that game, Their business is going to go into hurt mode pretty soon.

  11. #111
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    The XDR in the PS3 runs 8 clocks per full CPU cycle each running @ 3.2GHz, but it has a small bus width of like 8-bit. It averages out to around 20-24GBps. I can't remember the PS3's DDR3, but it is either 800MHz or 1300GHz and is slightly lower in total bandwidth. And the Xbox 360 DDR3 DRAM is also in this 20GBps mark.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    What you said is all false, especially the part about a game being of lesser visuals by being multiplat.
    lol ok. I like that. No reason why it's false but it is. Love it.

    If you think a multiplat game has the same potential in graphics/scale and design then I think we need to end this discussion right here before wasting more time.

    Also, the PS3 XDR DRAM is not that much faster than DDR3, and little if any benefit is there. But how does the speed of the RAM having anything to do with "fitting the game assets into the memory"? That's a matter of the amount of RAM which Xbox is superior in. Also, FFXIII did make use of the HDD, just like all of Sony's in-house games.
    Correction, the bandwidth is closer in number but the XDR still runs much faster than the GDDR3. So you can move things faster in and out. Now, it's tricky because it doesn't mean that it can hold more but if it doesn't need anything, it can take it out quicker and take stuff in quicker.

    Which means that you can show more things because you're keeping a higher flow of data.

    P.S. PS3 and 360 have the same amount of RAM, just that the PS3 RAM is split and realistically you are correct but we're talking about a perfect scenario where the developer "would" take advantage of the hardware...thus overall the difference is minimal and you have faster RAM on the PS3. I don't see how 360 would outdo the PS3.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    The XDR in the PS3 runs 8 clocks per full CPU cycle each running @ 3.2GHz, but it has a small bus width of like 8-bit. It averages out to around 20-24GBps. I can't remember the PS3's DDR3, but it is either 800MHz or 1300GHz and is slightly lower in total bandwidth. And the Xbox 360 DDR3 DRAM is also in this 20GBps mark.
    It's GDDR3 and it's 550Mhz.

    PS3's GPU RAM is slightly slower than the 360's overall RAM but XDR is where PS3 is superior overall. Again, I don't see why having similar bandwidth means much.

    It's like having two warehouses about the same size but one warehouse just ships things out and stores faster...thus it's much better while being only slightly bigger.

  13. #113
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    The XDR DRAM in the PS3 is not much faster than its own DDR3 of the DDR3. Total bandwidth is the only number that matters. The frequency of the RAM is just a number and nothing more.

    And again, multiplat does not affect the quality of the lead platform. It's just common sense, and it does not need to be explained.

    And again, the amount of RAM determines what game assets can fit in the game; bandwidth has little to do with such.
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    The XDR DRAM in the PS3 is not much faster than its own DDR3 of the DDR3. Total bandwidth is the only number that matters. The frequency of the RAM is just a number and nothing more.

    And again, multiplat does not affect the quality of the lead platform. It's just common sense, and it does not need to be explained.

    And again, the amount of RAM determines what game assets can fit in the game; bandwidth has little to do with such.
    What game assets were missing and where?

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    The XDR DRAM in the PS3 is not much faster than its own DDR3 of the DDR3. Total bandwidth is the only number that matters. The frequency of the RAM is just a number and nothing more.
    Alright, I'll take your word for it. Just that I've read articles about the RAM being much superior to that of the 360's.

    And again, multiplat does not affect the quality of the lead platform. It's just common sense, and it does not need to be explained.
    We'll have to disagree here. Trying to fit one thing into two extremely different things, you'll just have to cut it small enough that it fits both. But that's apparently not common sense. There's enough evidence out there for this as well but sure...we'll just agree to disagree here.

    A good example is Rage, they had to cut corners for it to fit on the 360's DVD limitation (I know not the same problem we're talking about but a relevant example of multiplat disadvantages) and the general limitations of consoles, which of course includes the PS3 as well. Carmack mentioned himself that if he had made it only for the PC, it would've been a completely different game...or far better.

    And again, the amount of RAM determines what game assets can fit in the game; bandwidth has little to do with such.
    I never argued the amount of RAM, I was arguing that speed matters and there have been articles which described the XDR being superior. One of them being IGN's hardware comparison.

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    RAM speed has little to do with fitting assets in memory; that's a dilemma involving the amount of RAM, which is what I am saying.

    With FFXIII, the Xbox's three DVD9s had 9GB left for use, and the game assets themselves only took up about 8GB. And replace the nonsense video cutscenes with real-time rendered ones, and you will only two discs. But since FFXIII was a direct and lazy port fromthe Playstation, they kept the video cutscenes even tho they were only necessary for the PS3.



    And Rage was on three siscs, so how would things "be different" with it was on a PC DVD9?

    Stop blaming Xbox for something that never existed.
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  17. #117
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    Let's not forget what this thread is about. This thread deals primarily with the fact that Square Enix is considering making FFXV an Action-RPG. Discussions about hardware are not prohibited on this forum, but let's not forget what the purpose of this thread is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchaffinOSX View Post
    Let's not forget what this thread is about. This thread deals primarily with the fact that Square Enix is considering making FFXV an Action-RPG. Discussions about hardware are not prohibited on this forum, but let's not forget what the purpose of this thread is.
    Just about to bring up how one comment can completely turn a decent thread into a console spec battle.




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    Squaresoft's team was much better at producing games

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