So, about these infraction points?

[BoyBettaKnow]

So, i'm back after my week ban, what felt a lot longer than i thought it would, and it got me thinking. How exactly do you gauge when someone is trolling or not? I mean, i didn't say anything that bad, i see people say alot more, far often and get away with nothing yet i say one sentence and get banned for a week. No warning or anything. I just want to understand what basis you use before banning someone.

I'm not here to criticise who banned me, they did it obviously because they think what i said what bad and as a MOD i should respect their decision (whether or not i agree is another subject) but i just want to see what they think is worth a banning. If i'm getting banned for trolling i'd at least like to see the same level go across for everyone else because as far as i see it there isn't a, for the lack of a better word (it seems to have left my vocabulary at the moment) trend for banning. It just seems to be weather or not the MOD decides he wants to ban a said user.

If anyone can clear this up for me it'd be appreciated.

BBK.


Edit - sorry about the wrong section, my bad.

[F34R]

It's a context thing.

Xbox sucks and has no good games. = Trolling
Xbox isn't for me, none of the games really interest me. = no trolling

apply that logic to whatever situation you see on the forums.

In your case, I think it's because you're were posting purposely to try and get a reaction... AND there was a warning posted in the first post:
*Warning* If I see anyone use the famous "You guys only accept results when it works in ps3/360 favor" I will report you and I'm pretty sure you will be wishing you hadn't crossed that line. Keep your trolling crap to yourself.

Sooo.... however, I've seen posts like yours in a lot of LOT threads, and nothing was done about them. I don't see your post as trolling. Just because the OP doesn't want a certain kind of reply in the thread doesn't make something against the rules. I think you got hosed to be honest with you, and I'd speak with someone about getting it reversed. I can PM you links of other similar comments that weren't treated as trolling.

[Cuguy]

Best answer I can give is how the mod/admin sees it.

It literally comes down to how it is interpreted in the instant the mod/admin reads the report or sees the post.

Other than that, if you feel injustice has been served (meaning, other people troll harder and don't get caught), then by all means start reporting all of the posts you feel are trolling.

It is an invaluable help here to have those reported, so we can deal with it rather than have someone reply to a troll post and then both end up infracted.

You'd be surprised how inactive the report section is compared to the number of people bitching about trolls in the threads. If there really are that many bad posts, the report area should be filled.

I wish I could offer a better reason as to why you got the infraction in order to put you at peace, but what I said is basically how it is. You can't make it 100% consistent in enforcement when you have staff from different countries, different opinions on what trolling is or isn't, and different outlooks on how the forum should be governed. If we took the ability for the mods to use judgement out of their hands, then we would have to get rid of warnings and use the infraction system at full bore with no debate, no leniency, no slaps on the wrists. People would get infracted end of story. Our system is what typically sets us apart from other forums. Most forums don't have a warning system, or PM to politely remind people of rules. Most just outright ban you, or infract.

[BoyBettaKnow]

So if i was banned for the quote i made how come other users haven't been banned for saying the exact same thing? Thats my main problem with why i was banned. I've seen people say much worse than I and nothing happens for it.

Consistent! That was the word i was looking for in the OP. There was no consistency with my ban at all. People have called Lens of truth bias for years, but when it goes in favour they say nothing. If i was banned for what i said why aren't people banned for calling it lens of bias? Why aren't people banned for trolling in those threads when they say it's always baised or other comments.

As i said, the ban is over and whats done is done but i don't agree with the way in which i was just banned out right. I didn't even have a chance to reply to the PM because i was banned. If i'd of got a warning then i'd understand. All i'm saying is if i'm getting banned for trolling then i also want to see the same bans go out to other people because it felt like to me i got banned due to someone not agreeing with me.

Thanks for clearing it up though. I've never been a fan of reporting people but if thats whats needed.

[F34R]

Best answer I can give is how the mod/admin sees it.

It literally comes down to how it is interpreted in the instant the mod/admin reads the report or sees the post.

Other than that, if you feel injustice has been served (meaning, other people troll harder and don't get caught), then by all means start reporting all of the posts you feel are trolling.

It is an invaluable help here to have those reported, so we can deal with it rather than have someone reply to a troll post and then both end up infracted.

You'd be surprised how inactive the report section is compared to the number of people bitching about trolls in the threads. If there really are that many bad posts, the report area should be filled.

I wish I could offer a better reason as to why you got the infraction in order to put you at peace, but what I said is basically how it is. You can't make it 100% consistent in enforcement when you have staff from different countries, different opinions on what trolling is or isn't, and different outlooks on how the forum should be governed. If we took the ability for the mods to use judgement out of their hands, then we would have to get rid of warnings and use the infraction system at full bore with no debate, no leniency, no slaps on the wrists. People would get infracted end of story. Our system is what typically sets us apart from other forums. Most forums don't have a warning system, or PM to politely remind people of rules. Most just outright ban you, or infract.

The only real issue I see with the system, and the OP has a good point being made.... is that sometimes one person gets penalized for something, while others aren't for the exact same type of behavior. You know it goes on, and a couple of my infractions were reversed due to this very reason. I also edited post above.

So if i was banned for the quote i made how come other users haven't been banned for saying the exact same thing? Thats my main problem with why i was banned. I've seen people say much worse than I and nothing happens for it.

Consistent! That was the word i was looking for in the OP. There was no consistency with my ban at all. People have called Lens of truth bias for years, but when it goes in favour they say nothing. If i was banned for what i said why aren't people banned for calling it lens of bias? Why aren't people banned for trolling in those threads when they say it's always baised or other comments.

As i said, the ban is over and whats done is done but i don't agree with the way in which i was just banned out right. I didn't even have a chance to reply to the PM because i was banned. If i'd of got a warning then i'd understand. All i'm saying is if i'm getting banned for trolling then i also want to see the same bans go out to other people because it felt like to me i got banned due to someone not agreeing with me.

Thanks for clearing it up though. I've never been a fan of reporting people but if thats whats needed.

Agreed. Read my post edit above.

[BoyBettaKnow]

Thanks, F34R. I didn't really check the OP in that one so in a sense i did bring it on myself but i was just tired of the same hypocritical behaviour some members have on the forum. It's ok, i'll just take the infraction on the chin though, i can't see myself getting into too much trouble again.

I just want to see the same rule for everyone and not when someone decides so.

[Cuguy]

The only real issue I see with the system, and the OP has a good point being made.... is that sometimes one person gets penalized for something, while others aren't for the exact same type of behavior. You know it goes on, and a couple of my infractions were reversed due to this very reason. I also edited post above.

Yes, it does go on.

Reporting can solve a lot of that. Often what happens is this scenario:

Fanboy A: the xbox360 sux
Fanboy B: NO it doesn't, the PS3 sux so bad, blah blah blah

Fanboy B gets reported. Gets infracted for trolling.



This also happens in the reverse, depending on where the thread is.

Point isn't which console is our focus or anything of that nature, the point is people RESPOND to trolls mostly rather than report them. Then THEY get reported and likely infracted.

The only way to make this more consistent is to have the members, NOT staff, step up and start reporting the troll posts rather than try to champion the cause and troll back.

[BoyBettaKnow]

Often easier said than done. Personally i think there are very few trolls on this site and i wouldn't want to report someone, running the risk that they get banned, because they say something i disagree with in a different way. Anyway, i now understand the stance on the situation and i will act acordingly in the future. Was just trying to clarify what happened really.

[ps3isawesome]

Just sayin I didnt notice you were gone

[F34R]

Yes, it does go on.

Reporting can solve a lot of that. Often what happens is this scenario:

Fanboy A: the xbox360 sux
Fanboy B: NO it doesn't, the PS3 sux so bad, blah blah blah

Fanboy B gets reported. Gets infracted for trolling.



This also happens in the reverse, depending on where the thread is.

Point isn't which console is our focus or anything of that nature, the point is people RESPOND to trolls mostly rather than report them. Then THEY get reported and likely infracted.

The only way to make this more consistent is to have the members, NOT staff, step up and start reporting the troll posts rather than try to champion the cause and troll back.

I'm going to disagree with that last statement. While the members can go a long way in curving the problem, it's ultimately the staffs responsibility to look for these things and deal with them in a timely manner. One person can report 99% of the problems, so an entire team should be able to keep up.

Saying that, it looks bad when you have a staff member posting in the very thread that there is a problem in, and it go without being dealt with. In my opinion it's the job of the staff to step up and read more, deal with it, etc. I mean, I can go back to reporting like I did before, and believe me, I over look a LOT of problems, and watch as staff converse within those threads, etc. What's the point? That's their job, and if the heads of the site are fine with the way they are doing their job, or lack thereof, then fine by me I guess.

[BoyBettaKnow]

Just sayin I didnt notice you were gone

I missed you too, man


Tapatalking

[Lethal_NFS]

I honestly think banning regular posting members is bullshit. But if you have been warned and continued to do it then you deserve a ban I guess. If someone was antagonizing you then a ban should not happen. I think it should take a lot for a regular member to be banned. I have not read everything as I am too lazy but these are just my opinions. Welcome back BBK.

[Blacksite]

Often easier said than done. Personally i think there are very few trolls on this site and i wouldn't want to report someone, running the risk that they get banned, because they say something i disagree with in a different way. Anyway, i now understand the stance on the situation and i will act acordingly in the future. Was just trying to clarify what happened really.

Bottom line is that you should never be afraid to report someone if you think they're out of line with a certain post. But you're right in saying that there are very few trolls on the site. I don't see a lot myself and I would say that I'm fairly active. But a troll is still a troll. And it's better to report them so that someone else doesn't get around to replying with a nasty comment of their own.

I'm going to disagree with that last statement. While the members can go a long way in curving the problem, it's ultimately the staffs responsibility to look for these things and deal with them in a timely manner. One person can report 99% of the problems, so an entire team should be able to keep up.

As far as I know, they're content with the amount of people they have on board to help keep the forums clean. The SMC handle most of the reports while the moderators chip in every now and then to help when they're not busy discussing something of major importance in their respective forum. Admins are no doubt busy trying to fix the latest bugs and whatnot behind the scenes. But they still reply to private messages too.

I don't think anyone is trying to imply that the rest of the community needs to spend all of their time looking for posts to report but you shouldn't ignore the opportunity to use the report button either. If you want the staff to "be able to keep up" why not actually notify them of the problem?

[F34R]

You aren't privy to the info I am Blacksite. You'll just have to take my word for it, or don't. I'll leave it at that. I never post staff criticism without it being warranted or having supported research and information.

[Soldier 95B]

I personally don't agree with the temporary ban that Boybetta was dealt. I do understand that his post did have an opportunity to incite a possible cry from a select number of members. However, I took it as tongue and cheek, more of a joke....not a comment that he was really expecting a reply from.

I too find more "troll" worthy posts that go unpunished. I do report some, but not many (because I am a recovering self admitted troll myself). I do think that as a community, that we are just as responsible for keeping the community clean and troll free as the staff is. It's a free forum, the moderators are not paid (just like we are not paid), and if we see people disturbing our community, we should report them. It's the neighborhood watch program. The police can't be everywhere, all the time. But the public will call (report) the police and let them know when something bad has happened.

I can't picture the few moderators on the forum POSSIBLY having the ability to reading EACH and every post. If they did....GET A LIFE!

Boybetta, you is my brotha from another motha! Welcome back.

[F34R]

I personally don't agree with the temporary ban that Boybetta was dealt. I do understand that his post did have an opportunity to incite a possible cry from a select number of members. However, I took it as tongue and cheek, more of a joke....not a comment that he was really expecting a reply from.

I too find more "troll" worthy posts that go unpunished. I do report some, but not many (because I am a recovering self admitted troll myself). I do think that as a community, that we are just as responsible for keeping the community clean and troll free as the staff is. It's a free forum, the moderators are not paid (just like we are not paid), and if we see people disturbing our community, we should report them. It's the neighborhood watch program. The police can't be everywhere, all the time. But the public will call (report) the police and let them know when something bad has happened.

I can't picture the few moderators on the forum POSSIBLY having the ability to reading EACH and every post. If they did....GET A LIFE!

Boybetta, you is my brotha from another motha! Welcome back.

Um, I beg to differ. If I can do it solo, they should be able to as well. Saying "they can't be everywhere" is a cop out.

[Ixion]

@BoyBettaKnow

It's our policy to skip the PM and Official Warning when the offense is Trolling or Flaming. We also greatly increased the point value, which instantly results in a one-week ban. I don't make the rules and that's what I had to do.

As for inconsistency, I can't speak for the rest of the staff, but I usually just stop by here a few times a day, so the reports section is vital for me. And I hardly ever visit the Lens of Truth threads, so I haven't seen the other comments you're referring to.

Like I told you via PM, you're a good member, but I try to stay as objective as possible.

[SchaffinOSX]

As some of my colleagues have acknowledged, yes, sometimes there is inconsistency. You have to understand that there are several different ways trolls can be viewed, and different perspectives staff members have on how the rules should be enforced. Let me say that the administration does their best to create guidelines to standardize things, but it is very difficult to eliminate the sometimes different opinions staff members have on how to deal with certain situations.

Some staff members are strict, some are tranquil and more forgiving. None are necessarily wrong, but sometimes, that leads to different outcomes for the same offenses.

[Soldier 95B]

Um, I beg to differ. If I can do it solo, they should be able to as well. Saying "they can't be everywhere" is a cop out.

You sir would be in the minority then. Kudos to you.

[AaronSOLDIER]

The more active you are the less chance you have of getting banned.

[F34R]

I had a really LONG post, about 30 minutes into typing it out, posting multiple examples of non-penalized posts that are like the OP's, I erased it because its the same tired argument, as I'm going to start getting PM's soon about being to hard on the staff again....

I'm going to leave it at this. If they can't treat everyone the same, then just get rid of the rules. There's no excuse for why the OP was banned, without warning, for something that has been going on for so long by so many other people. It's like making a new rule and not telling anyone about it, then penalizing people that break the new rule.

The banning process needs to be refined so that the person being penalized has some recourse to make contact with a staff member. There's no legit reason a member here should have to wait a week to be able to plead his case.

[keefy]

It doesn't even say you were banned in the ban thread it just says "infraction"

[BoyBettaKnow]

I personally don't agree with the temporary ban that Boybetta was dealt. I do understand that his post did have an opportunity to incite a possible cry from a select number of members. However, I took it as tongue and cheek, more of a joke....not a comment that he was really expecting a reply from.

I too find more "troll" worthy posts that go unpunished. I do report some, but not many (because I am a recovering self admitted troll myself). I do think that as a community, that we are just as responsible for keeping the community clean and troll free as the staff is. It's a free forum, the moderators are not paid (just like we are not paid), and if we see people disturbing our community, we should report them. It's the neighborhood watch program. The police can't be everywhere, all the time. But the public will call (report) the police and let them know when something bad has happened.

I can't picture the few moderators on the forum POSSIBLY having the ability to reading EACH and every post. If they did....GET A LIFE!

Boybetta, you is my brotha from another motha! Welcome back.

Haha, thanks man! Right back at you!

@BoyBettaKnow

It's our policy to skip the PM and Official Warning when the offense is Trolling or Flaming. We also greatly increased the point value, which instantly results in a one-week ban. I don't make the rules and that's what I had to do.

As for inconsistency, I can't speak for the rest of the staff, but I usually just stop by here a few times a day, so the reports section is vital for me. And I hardly ever visit the Lens of Truth threads, so I haven't seen the other comments you're referring to.

Like I told you via PM, you're a good member, but I try to stay as objective as possible.

As i said man, there's no hard feelings. You had to do what you had to do. I'm just saying (through no fault of your own) it feels as if it was one rule for one and another for someone else. If you read back in any of the LOT threads you would see that people have said far worse than I ever did and yet nothing happens about it. If you can't see from my point of view how that seems inconsistent then i don't know what to say really.

The more active you are the less chance you have of getting banned.

That evidently wasn't the case. I mean, i'm not as active as some but i do visit the boards every day, have done since 07 (old account) and i tend to make a few posts a day. So yeah, i'm not the most active but i'm far from being inactive or a lurker.

It doesn't even say you were banned in the ban thread it just says "infraction"

Yeah man, i had the week ban hammer wielded on me. Yeah i was confused as to why it said that as well and not a ban but yeah, i was certainly banned.

Fear does bring a good point in though - It shouldn't have to be the case of waiting a week to argue your point as to why you were banned. There should be an option to be able to PM the MOD who banned you. If i was able to talk to Ixion and he explained why he banned me rather than just say 'your banned' it maybe wouldn't have been such a big deal or i may not have even got banned in the first place. I was even debating creating a duplicate account to try and find out why I was banned but i decided against it and just thought i'd wait it out.

[Gilly3]

there is also a simple fact that we are human too. its not always easy to be consistent though we do try.

[squirrelbo1]

thought id just say. DONT MAKE A DUPE ACCOUNT. it does nobody any favours and will land you in more trouble than its worth.

as for the getting in contact. When you get an ifraction do you get an email containing the PM ? if so as staff we should start adding our email addresses at the bottom of pm's so people can email us.