The end of the end

[Cuguy]

And no one would know what this thread would be either if it is a sticky. The forum main page only shows most recent thread posted in. Only other option is to create another forum section for ONLY complaints, oh wait, we have one called the FEEDBACK and SUGGESTIONS.

LOL

Sorry to sound argumentative, but I don't see the benefit of a long running, open sticky. It won't make bringing issues to bear any easier to the staff, it will only provide an outlet for people to complain on a constant basis without fear of their thread being closed.

We don't close the threads to ignore them, so I don't see what the problem is with closing feedback threads once the issue is being addressed. No amount of talking is going to speed the process up once it is started. See what I mean?

[F34R]

When someone clicks on that section to post a complaint, or report an error, they don't have to go wading through threads that have been closed, etc., they can see the properly named bug and error reporting thread, with ** READ FIRST POST **, and see that their issue has already been acknowledge, or if it hasn't, then they reply to the thread. Simple.

[*goo]

I guess we're therefore at an impasse. It's unfortunate that you don't value user/customer experience enough to want to put the continued effort in.

In my job, I hear from customers every day telling me something I already know and we're working to resolve. Should I shrug them off or spend time addressing the issues to win their support? Even if it's the same stuff I've been repeating for days/weeks/months? You don't need to answer that, it's rhetorical.

[Cuguy]

I guess we're therefore at an impasse. It's unfortunate that you don't value user/customer experience enough to want to put the continued effort in.

In my job, I hear from customers every day telling me something I already know and we're working to resolve. Should I shrug them off or spend time addressing the issues to win their support? Even if it's the same stuff I've been repeating for days/weeks/months? You don't need to answer that, it's rhetorical.

There's no impasse.

There is no issue really that you can argue? We (Mr. B and I) have been continually responding to forum issues, keeping people updated, etc...the fact that I closed some dupe threads in no way means I don't value member input. In fact, the implication that I don't care for this place is insulting.

We are constantly working here, so I have no idea what you are talking about not putting continued effort it. Effort for what? Reading the same threads with the same complaint day in and day out knowing the issue is already being addressed?

I just guess I don't get what in the hell you are arguing? We HAVE done everything mentioned in this thread. Answered questions, brought updates, given a timeline of things coming, apologized, asked for consideration in a bad spot of forum timing, etc... only thing we haven't done is what F34R is wanting us to do, and that is the sticky. However, I just don't think the sticky will resolve or help anything personally.

I will give the idea of the sticky some thought... but we would have to work out who updates it because frankly, not that many people can see the work spreadsheet to update the status of stuff.

[F34R]

You're the community manager, the liaison between the owners/staff and the members. You update it, weekly. Leave it open, let the members discuss it, etc. When someone new responds or posts, the senior members, etc., can explain where things are at, point the new members in the right direction, etc. I don't see what it'll hurt.

[Cuguy]

We can try it, but in the past we have done this:

1. submit detailed reports of what the issue was and when you saw it. include system information so we can more quickly identify it. Duration of thread, about a week.

2. punching bag. description of thread was a place to vent your frustrations, issues, complaints, etc... lasted awhile, but abandoned by members (not staff)

3. feedback forum - where we are now, and has always been here. problem with it is people just dont' care to look through threads, or even read the previous posts in a thread and the issues get lost or we get many duplicate threads.


I will check into the feasibility of the sticky vs. just making it clear to members that this forum is here and what is expected. We might be able to just clarify and use what is already in place.

[claud3]

repeats is not what we all want, its fresh suggestions and fresh feed back. Thats why i called the thread

(THE END OF THE END)

thats what i am saying, stop the repeats and come together with support and help from all sides

[*goo]

There's no impasse.

There is no issue really that you can argue? We (Mr. B and I) have been continually responding to forum issues, keeping people updated, etc...the fact that I closed some dupe threads in no way means I don't value member input. In fact, the implication that I don't care for this place is insulting.

We are constantly working here, so I have no idea what you are talking about not putting continued effort it. Effort for what? Reading the same threads with the same complaint day in and day out knowing the issue is already being addressed?

I just guess I don't get what in the hell you are arguing? We HAVE done everything mentioned in this thread. Answered questions, brought updates, given a timeline of things coming, apologized, asked for consideration in a bad spot of forum timing, etc... only thing we haven't done is what F34R is wanting us to do, and that is the sticky. However, I just don't think the sticky will resolve or help anything personally.

I will give the idea of the sticky some thought... but we would have to work out who updates it because frankly, not that many people can see the work spreadsheet to update the status of stuff.

At no point did I say you don't care about PSU. As a result, you're free to feel insulted about something I didn't say.

My point was specific to dealing with customers. You might feel like it's banging on the same old tired drum but sometimes it's necessary. I sympathise as I deal with the same kind of thing in my job.

However, if you're not prepared to get involved you could at least allow people the opportunity to discuss. You're obviously free to decide on what you want discussed on the site but surely it has to be reasonable if you're to retain custom.

I see at least 3 threads on the issue closed down and locked in the feedback & suggestions area. None of them redirect me to where the open thread discussing the issue is. Thus, I conclude it's not a duplicate issue, it's a 'we don't want this conversation' issue. If I'm wrong about that, I'd appreciate you linking me to the thread where I can choose to discuss this.

To clarify, I'm arguing that this situation needs to be managed better.

[Cuguy]

At no point did I say you don't care about PSU. As a result, you're free to feel insulted about something I didn't say.

My point was specific to dealing with customers. You might feel like it's banging on the same old tired drum but sometimes it's necessary. I sympathise as I deal with the same kind of thing in my job.

However, if you're not prepared to get involved you could at least allow people the opportunity to discuss. You're obviously free to decide on what you want discussed on the site but surely it has to be reasonable if you're to retain custom.

I see at least 3 threads on the issue closed down and locked in the feedback & suggestions area. None of them redirect me to where the open thread discussing the issue is. Thus, I conclude it's not a duplicate issue, it's a 'we don't want this conversation' issue. If I'm wrong about that, I'd appreciate you linking me to the thread where I can choose to discuss this.

To clarify, I'm arguing that this situation needs to be managed better.

I see your point, but my contention is that there doesn't need to be an open thread on an issue like the slow site. Reason being, the problem has been brought up. It has been noted and being addressed. An open thread on that topic is not going to be beneficial in the slightest.

Another point of mine is, there are certain points that simply don't need discussion. Like, someone says "hey, subforums is showing up twice under the forum names in the main page".. why should we leave that thread open? I can say, it is being looked at. Done.

Same thing with the slow site. We know it is slow, you and others harping it to death in a forum isn't going to change that. So, rather than let the issue sit in open threads to allow people the chance to belittle the site/staff, I closed them. We know of it, it is being done. No discussion needed IMO.

Things harder to nail down, then yes, open discussion is needed, and that is the policy now.

Better managed? Maybe on the forum side in getting news to members, but all issues brought to bear ARE being addressed. We might not come out and say it constantly, but nothing goes unchecked.

[GhostFox61]

Same thing with the slow site. We know it is slow, you and others harping it to death in a forum isn't going to change that. So, rather than let the issue sit in open threads to allow people the chance to belittle the site/staff, I closed them.

I believe you meant to say "provide valuable user feedback".

BTW, the site periodically has major problems during times of low traffic, and the specific time this occurs may be valuable to fixing the site.

[SchaffinOSX]

I will check into the feasibility of the sticky vs. just making it clear to members that this forum is here and what is expected. We might be able to just clarify and use what is already in place.

This, to me, is the most practical solution. Like Cuguy has said, a great deal of the points brought up here have been attempted in the past. I realize that they were not done in the exact manner has being suggested, but I don't think that there would be a vast difference between the suggested sticky thread, and say "The Punching Bag".

One thread is also not a very feasible solution, for the same reason that I'm beginning to see issues with threads like "The Welcome thread" and the "Ask Which Game You Should Buy" thread. Those threads aren't doing excellent because there are so many posts that a lot of posts get lost in the process. Users don't like it when they feel their posts are being skipped over, and that's why we've had several suggestions for an introductions section. It's also the reason that I've been prompted to merge a lot of threads into the "Ask Which Game You Should Buy" thread; because members simply don't like the impersonal nature of one massive thread to take care of everything.

In my opinion, a thread should be made and stickied, detailing the expectations of this thread and the manner that the staff will deal with certain types of threads. It will detail whether or not certain types of threads (like those that have been closed recently) will be left open, or if they will simply be closed. If threads will be closed because the issue is being addressed, then that thread should detail why we do things that way, why its beneficial, etc.

Also, and I think that this is important, staff members should start editing thread titles of suggestions to diffuse any confusion. Say a user posts a suggestion concerning a bug about seeing a sub-forum twice. Rather than simply posting in the thread saying that it is being addressed and then closing it, edit the thread title and put "Being Addressed" or "B.A." next to it. It'll give users an incredibly simple way to figure out what is being dealt with and what is not.

After that is all said and done, there is one more step for staff members to take. Granted we can post in closed threads, staff members should be posting in the thread concerning that issue, detailing the most recent step and how much longer it'll likely be before the issue is resolved.

So, in other words: A user posts a discussion, the staff says it's being addressed (if it is), the thread is closed and marked accordingly, and then frequent updates are posted into that thread concerning the staff's progress on resolving it.

[claud3]

Right reading all the post here and me and GOO have had a disagreement over or posts and i respect that. But we all agree that what i said in my threader starter post, this has to end and yes i want voices to be heard but not echoed over the same threads in the feedback section over and over again you all must agree and i believe we do. That to be honest, senseless posting threads that have different titles in the feedback section are just a cover up to the same response to the problems we can not solve any quicker by pointing out the same thing over and over again. We agree the server error is a pain in the arse and needs address and the logging problems need fixing and the slow site... etc... etc...

But arguing among each other will not fix the problem, that is what the suggestion option is for to suggest a solution... We have to not echo the same threads over and over again and just accept the problems will be resolved soon and i hate to say it, just deal with the problems we have

After all its the admin, staff and us the loyal members that keep the forum a universal forum that should lead by example as the top forum on the web

[SchaffinOSX]

I want to make another point...

I realize that a lot of people are pessimistic about the future of PSU, and I think that negativity has kind of put a veil over how much worse things used to be in this regard. I remember the Feedback & Suggestions section of a couple of years ago, and there was virtually no administrator involvement. Discussions were strong, but it was usually amongst members and some SMC's and moderators here and there. Seldom was it that an administrator chimed in, and even more seldom that members knew whether or not certain things were being dealt with.

Mr. Bishop, Cuguy, and the rest of the administration (except for Vintage) have done an incredible job in responding to user questions and concerns, and actually dealing with the problems this site has. Remember when we first upgraded to vB4? There were a plethora of problems that were "being dealt with". It wasn't until the shift in ownership and the more recent administrator promotions that these issues were actually resolved.

Things are getting dealt with, and that's evident. It might be easy to forget, but this site had many more problems not too long ago.

[claud3]

I want to make another point...

I realize that a lot of people are pessimistic about the future of PSU, and I think that negativity has kind of put a veil over how much worse things used to be in this regard. I remember the Feedback & Suggestions section of a couple of years ago, and there was virtually no administrator involvement. Discussions were strong, but it was usually amongst members and some SMC's and moderators here and there. Seldom was it that an administrator chimed in, and even more seldom that members knew whether or not certain things were being dealt with.

Mr. Bishop, Cuguy, and the rest of the administration (except for Vintage) have done an incredible job in responding to user questions and concerns, and actually dealing with the problems this site has. Remember when we first upgraded to vB4? There were a plethora of problems that were "being dealt with". It wasn't until the shift in ownership and the more recent administrator promotions that these issues were actually resolved.

Things are getting dealt with, and that's evident. It might be easy to forget, but this site had many more problems not too long ago.

I agree, over the years being here and the updates happened, there was totally up roar over this and that had gone and whats this new features and why did etc... etc... had to go and we had more problems with earlier version of the forum and now we have new problems with this version of the forum. And now we have a new setup coming and we are scared of what the outcome is going to be... Lets just wait and see the final results of the change that is coming and lets get the forum sparkling again and breathing with life once more

We all love this forum and the admin or admin's and all the Staff and members have done amazing jobs in keeping this site running the way it should be and that is for games, fun, social and friendship

[BoyBettaKnow]

Don't care - this is now getting infuriating. As Goo said, when your making the community have to jump through hoops to post or even view the pages something is most certainly going wrong. Hell it took me best part of 10 minutes with many refreshes to not be greeted by a '500' error and when it does decide to load it takes a day and an age.

Luckily I don't only rely on PSU for my foruming needs but i fear that if this keeps up for long i may get out of the habit of checking the forums once every few minutes to once every few weeks. I understand that all the administration are trying their hardest to get things sorted but at this moment in time it's becoming a very bad joke.

I'm even sceptical if this is even going to post without me having to copy it and try umpteen times.

[F34R]

Well, from around 4am to 9am est it's rather pointless to try and post with any significance.

[Dave-The-Rave]

Well, from around 4am to 9am est it's rather pointless to try and post with any significance.

...different timezones.

[F34R]

...different timezones.

which is why i put est (eastern standard time).

[claud3]

So everyone agrees i hope in a way with me that THE END OF THE END has to happen and every thing has to stop repeating the same complaints over and over again. I do not want to sound like i am hating the fact of the choices and freedom that we all have to complain. But make the complaints fresh ones and not dressed up shit over and over again

[F34R]

I agree in a way.. sure.

[Dave-The-Rave]

which is why i put est (eastern standard time).

So? Just because it is that time to post in EST doesn't mean it isn in GMT.

[F34R]

So? Just because it is that time to post in EST doesn't mean it isn in GMT.

huh?

[SchaffinOSX]

Don't care - this is now getting infuriating. As Goo said, when your making the community have to jump through hoops to post or even view the pages something is most certainly going wrong. Hell it took me best part of 10 minutes with many refreshes to not be greeted by a '500' error and when it does decide to load it takes a day and an age.

Luckily I don't only rely on PSU for my foruming needs but i fear that if this keeps up for long i may get out of the habit of checking the forums once every few minutes to once every few weeks. I understand that all the administration are trying their hardest to get things sorted but at this moment in time it's becoming a very bad joke.

I'm even sceptical if this is even going to post without me having to copy it and try umpteen times.

See, I find a problem with this. I'm not targeting you in general, BBK, as I know a lot of users agree with you. But you acknowledge that the administration is doing their best to combat the issue, and yet seem completely baffled that we're in it at all. Frankly, I don't know what you expect.

As Goo said, when your making the community have to jump through hoops to post or even view the pages something is most certainly going wrong.

No one is being made to do anything. The administration is, as you acknowledge later in your post, doing everything they can to get this issue resolved. It isn't as though this is the result of some poor decision making. Rather, the efforts of our new owners has paid off, and we're getting a lot more traffic during a certain period of the day than we used to. Now, in response, efforts are being made to upgrade to a better server so that these issues can be resolved. It's not something that can be instantaneously dealt with, though.

This is all equally as frustrating to me as it is to you, but there's really no one to be mad at in this instance. There is more traffic, and in turn we need, and are getting a new server. Any issues relating to something other than the increased traffic were likely created while the site was under different ownership, but most of those have been resolved.

Just relax, and hold on for a bit longer, and the issues should be resolved. Like you said, they're working as hard as they can.

[claud3]

For what its worth the truth of the matter is, that their is two sides to every coin and when you flip it, the odds are always going to be different, the 50/50 chance will always be there. Will the outcome suit the situation or will the outcome hurt or make the situation worse. I am trying to make it so the repeat problems are no more nor are they built on as currently present threads are doing so. Just making it so the solution is in the thinking and the thinking is in us to bring up fresh feedback that everyone agrees on with passion that they need not be repeated over and over again, Also lets bring in the new members by making the feedback section a less hostile place to be all the time with the overwhelm amount of the same complaints

[Blacksite]

Well, I was not expecting to see a huge bump in traffic at this time of the day.