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  1. #251
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    We have to remember the performance boost those cards will get from just being in a console too, but yeah a more newer card would be better & may come about, those are probably what's available at the time & maybe replaced in final hardware, not to mention any modification done, ram & clock speeds maybe different which is usually the case with PCbase hardware in consoles.
    Last edited by TGO; 04-17-2012 at 16:35.

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  2. #252
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    It's not so much a performance boost though, it's more that games will be written specifically for that card(s) and them alone so they can do all the optimisation without having to worry about cards x,y and z. At least thats how i always viewed it.

    Sony got burned bad last time releasing the console at the price point they did so it's understandable they aren't wanting to put hardware in them that will cost them the earth

  3. #253
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    Still don't know why you guys are talking about this rumor. If you know anything about console development/history, you would realize that this is pretty farfetched and would be a disappointing update after 8 years.

  4. #254
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    I'm not THAT concerned about power as those cards are more than capable of runnig the likes of Crysis 2 on 1080p at high settings. Now include all the optimized games and the perks of being a closed system, and no doubt we'll have some nice eye candy coming along.

  5. #255
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    Seems like a nice mix of general-purpose processing and vector processing. I wonder if they'll be use the APU for physics calculations.

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    You can't tell me that those billions lost were due to the contract itself?

    A couple of things

    The contract with Nvidia did not allow for any change ion royalties, meaning and change in price came at Ms expense, not Nvidia. They were paid the same rate regardless.

    The hard drive was also costing them, they were competing on price with a product that didn't even have one.

    Also, the ps3 was seen as delayed because it was delayed, by six months, then from a world wide launch, to a staggered one. It launched in the EU a full 12 months after SONY said it would, no one else put that pressure on Sony.

    MS actually thought they were beating Sony to the launch by only 6 months.

    As for the apu thing, the rumors regarding twin gpu's makes more sense than this. Let's not forget the cell helping out with gpu stuff if very limiting and mostly post processing.

    Crossfiring two unbalanced gpu's is about as stupid rumour you will get. Bottlenecks ahoy!
    Last edited by mynd; 04-18-2012 at 03:39.
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  7. #257
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    Power shmower.

    Whichever console comes out with the games that deliver on true next-gen experience, will be the one I buy first. Will probably pick the other one up after some price drops depending on exclusives and games.

    Though at this stage of MS - lacking 1st party retail games, it's not looking good. Hope to see less Kinect stuff, and more actual games.

    MS lately seem to be chasing coat-tails of the 'popular' crowd instead of taking care of what they do best. (i.e. see Windows 8 debacle - which is not that bad, but they've certainly dumbed it down; and see the Kinect-overload).

    We'll see though, and the announcements (whenever they may be) will be exciting.

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    more of the i know this i know that... What a croc of shit. Unless proof is given and we all can judge the specs our selves.

    Its time to let the lies flow until we get sick of them


  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by claud3 View Post
    more of the i know this i know that... What a croc of shit. Unless proof is given and we all can judge the specs our selves.

    Its time to let the lies flow until we get sick of them
    I know some of them might be slightly right, and its going to be more by shear luck and educated guess's than actually knowing anything about what Sony and MS are doing.
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  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    A couple of things


    As for the apu thing, the rumors regarding twin gpu's makes more sense than this. Let's not forget the cell helping out with gpu stuff if very limiting and mostly post processing.

    Crossfiring two unbalanced gpu's is about as stupid rumour you will get. Bottlenecks ahoy!
    Hypothetically of course, what if say during graphically heavy games the APU gpu was used solely for for post processing and physics etc? I can't really think off the top of my head of a system that has a setup like this. In a closed system it could be interesting to see what developers could do with an APU + GPU.

  11. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Hypothetically of course, what if say during graphically heavy games the APU gpu was used solely for for post processing and physics etc? I can't really think off the top of my head of a system that has a setup like this. In a closed system it could be interesting to see what developers could do with an APU + GPU.
    It's what the PS3 already does.
    Replace the APU with the SPU and you have the PS3.
    Doesnt matter what you do post processing if you cant hit the framerate in the first place.

    Id much rather see a GPU+GPU soution that shares the frame buffers and/or can set up pre-rendering textures.

    Deffered rendreing would be abousltly awesoem with that.
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  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    It's what the PS3 already does.
    Replace the APU with the SPU and you have the PS3.
    Doesn't matter what you do post processing if you cant hit the frame rate in the first place.

    Id much rather see a GPU+GPU solution that shares the frame buffers and/or can set up per-rendering textures.

    Deferred rendering would be absolutely awesome with that.
    Yeah that is how i see having the APU inside a console would be rather useful. The GPU inside the APU could do all the geometry work (tessellation and all that), send that off to the main GPU which could be just a shader machine. Which is pretty close to the ps3 setup now, but because there is more software support for GPU based programing (rather than just SPU) developers would be in a better position to really dig into the hardware.

    Ideally it would be nice to have a CPU + duel GPU setup, I am just not sure how realistic it would be to have two relatively powerful GPUs in a console. with an APU+GPU setup you at least could have a decent CPU and lower spec GPU in the APU which frees up money and heat for a more powerful stand alone GPU. Could also make the console more efficient as a whole when not playing games as the APU alone would be enough to play movies/music/what ever.

    But yeah, all this is kinda pointless cause it is sony :P, who knows they may even go with a ARM based architecture with a POWERVR gpu

  13. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    A couple of things

    The contract with Nvidia did not allow for any change ion royalties, meaning and change in price came at Ms expense, not Nvidia. They were paid the same rate regardless.

    The hard drive was also costing them, they were competing on price with a product that didn't even have one.
    What does that have to do with the 4 billion loss?

    Also, the ps3 was seen as delayed because it was delayed, by six months, then from a world wide launch, to a staggered one. It launched in the EU a full 12 months after SONY said it would, no one else put that pressure on Sony.
    So you're arguing with me that competition doesn't exist?

    Do you realize why these companies set similar launch dates?

    MS actually thought they were beating Sony to the launch by only 6 months.
    It's another thing that it worked in their advantage...and the reason it was an advantage is another clue that it would put pressure on Sony to come out with their console once MS was.

  14. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    What does that have to do with the 4 billion loss?
    They were making a loss on every unit sold due to these issues.
    So you're arguing with me that competition doesn't exist?

    Do you realize why these companies set similar launch dates?
    No I wasnt arguing anything, somebody said somehting about it being "percieved" as being delayed.
    It wasnt being percieved as being delayed, it was delayed.

    It's another thing that it worked in their advantage...and the reason it was an advantage is another clue that it would put pressure on Sony to come out with their console once MS was.
    I think Sony was always going to ship roughly when they did, maybe even 6 months later than they actually did.
    The cell devlopment had been happening for years, it was like watching a train coming, you know its going to arrive soon.
    If anything that put pressure on MS to pull finger, not the other way around.
    It wasnt untill the 360 actually launched that Sony would have ever started to even feel the tinyiest bit of pressure, but I think it mounted significantly every month after launch on Sony.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-20-2012 at 08:54.
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  15. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Id much rather see a GPU+GPU soution that shares the frame buffers and/or can set up pre-rendering textures.

    Deffered rendreing would be abousltly awesoem with that.
    Indeed.
    New graphics research directions like realtime voxelization of polygonal scene and using that for indirect lighting, shadows, occlusion and all sorts of fluid dynamics could work very nicely with the setup..
    'no, no one in their sane mind uses OpenGL on PS3' - Repi
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  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    They were making a loss on every unit sold due to these issues.

    No I wasnt arguing anything, somebody said somehting about it being "percieved" as being delayed.
    It wasnt being percieved as being delayed, it was delayed.


    I think Sony was always going to ship roughly when they did, maybe even 6 months later than they actually did.
    The cell devlopment had been happening for years, it was like watching a train coming, you know its going to arrive soon.
    If anything that put pressure on MS to pull finger, not the other way around.
    It wasnt untill the 360 actually launched that Sony would have ever started to even feel the tinyiest bit of pressure, but I think it mounted significantly every month after launch on Sony.
    We can work out when pressure was put on either side...my point was that there's always pressure from all sides in this business.

  17. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    We can work out when pressure was put on either side...my point was that there's always pressure from all sides in this business.
    I agree, but the original Xbox, it was avery very badly "built" machine from the poiint of view of costs and reduction of costs overtime.

    MS fixed that 2nd time around by buying the actual designs, as opposed to "leaseing" them.
    Its why Sony have always been able to drop costs, when your not paying royalits on you chip desing you can do what you want with them.
    For example the original Nvidia chipset in the original Xbox from memory was not allowed to be altered or even shrunk. Infact MS had to wait on Nvidia to dleiver the chips, they had no part in manufacture.
    They were held entirely to ransom.

    If you cant control you componants, your stuffed. Doesnt matter who you are.
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