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  1. #101
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    Exactly. Frostbite 2 can do 60fps on consoles. All it takes is optimizing it to do so. The console versions of BF3 are just optimized ports of a very powerful PC engine to begin with. Same can be said for Cryengine 3. Any engine can run at 60fps on consoles.
    Last edited by Inzane2050; 01-24-2012 at 18:32.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Exactly. Frostbite 2 can do 60fps on consoles. All it takes is optimizing it to do so. The console versions of BF3 are just optimized ports of a very powerful PC engine to begin with. Same can be said for Cryengine 3. Any engine can run at 60fps on consoles.
    Not these consoles...no way in hell...you would have to strip the engine down to its absolute bare bones and the game would look quite bad...worse than MW for sure...the two engines approach things very differently...

    This is one of the points people have been trying to get through to you...The IW 5.0 engine is DESIGNED to run @ 60fps on current Gen console hardware...and because of that sacrifices needed ( and still need) to be made in terms of overall graphics presentation...

    However as already PROVEN (to your displeasure) IW has improved the engine pretty significantly since CoD4...

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  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Exactly. Frostbite 2 can do 60fps on consoles. All it takes is optimizing it to do so. The console versions of BF3 are just optimized ports of a very powerful PC engine to begin with. Same can be said for Cryengine 3. Any engine can run at 60fps on consoles.
    Sure, it can run at 60fps; however, you already admitted you'd have to take out everything that makes BF3, well, BF3 lol. You'll have a game that runs at 60fps, and looks like MW3... GASP!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Metfanant View Post
    Not these consoles...no way in hell...you would have to strip the engine down to its absolute bare bones and the game would look quite bad...worse than MW for sure...the two engines approach things very differently...

    This is one of the points people have been trying to get through to you...The IW 5.0 engine is DESIGNED to run @ 60fps on current Gen console hardware...and because of that sacrifices needed ( and still need) to be made in terms of overall graphics presentation...

    However as already PROVEN (to your displeasure) IW has improved the engine pretty significantly since CoD4...

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    Exactly lol. It's like a broken record at this point in the sense that we've had to repeat the same facts over and over again.




  5. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metfanant View Post
    Not these consoles...no way in hell...you would have to strip the engine down to its absolute bare bones and the game would look quite bad...worse than MW for sure...the two engines approach things very differently...

    This is one of the points people have been trying to get through to you...The IW 5.0 engine is DESIGNED to run @ 60fps on current Gen console hardware...and because of that sacrifices needed ( and still need) to be made in terms of overall graphics presentation...

    However as already PROVEN (to your displeasure) IW has improved the engine pretty significantly since CoD4...

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    The console versions of BF3 are stripped down versions of a powerful engine incapable of running on consoles and yet it looks great. How can a Frostbite 2 game running at 60fps look worse than Call of Duty, a game than runs at 60fps. Call of Duty is not the best looking 60fps game so there is no reason why you should think it would be so difficult. You act as if Call of Duty's graphics are impossible of anyone else to achieve.

    But if you don't mind explaining yourself, how are Battlefield 3's textures more demanding than Call of Duty's?
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  6. #105
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    The textures in MW3 aren't as high a resolution as the textures in BF3 for starters...

    I think you're misunderstanding the basic principles of a game engine. The engine runs perfectly fine on consoles. Which Frostbite 2.0 game runes at 60fps on consoles?




  7. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    The textures in MW3 aren't as high a resolution as the textures in BF3 for starters...

    I think you're misunderstanding the basic principles of a game engine. The engine runs perfectly fine on consoles. Which Frostbite 2.0 game runes at 60fps on consoles?
    The question was to ask what prevents BF3 textures from being used in place in Call of Duty's. So aside from obviously texture resolution, what is more demanding about BF3 textures vs Call of Duty?

    BF3 runs perfectly fine on consoles bcuz it was optimized to do so. Saying that DICE can't make a good looking 60fps console bcuz it already runs at 30fps on consoles is the same as saying DICE can't make a good looking 30fps game on consoles bcuz it is already too demanding on PC. BF3 will obviously have more of a 60fps look to it, but is to stop them from surpassing Call of Duty in both artistic and technical fidelity?
    Last edited by Inzane2050; 01-25-2012 at 12:11.
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  8. #107
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    /slaps forehead...

    What else does there have to be?

    What is your contention now? I mean, what point are you trying to drive home here? Everything else has already been explained or proven contrary to your stance on the subject. So what is it now?
    MW3 - 60fps
    BF3 - 30fps

    /thread.




  9. #108
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    So basically you are saying bcuz Frostbite 2 runs on demanding PC hardware, it cannot run and look great on consoles. That obviously makes sense considering they never did that.

    Whether you believe it or not, Call of Duty's graphics can be surpassed by other 60fps games, both artistic and technical. Call of Duty is not the best looking game.
    Last edited by Inzane2050; 01-25-2012 at 12:32.
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  10. #109
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    Um, no I didn't ever say nor hint at that. The engine is scalable for different platforms. There are obvious concessions that have to be made though, hence the 30fps limit and the resolution being technically sub hd 1280 x 704.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Um, no I didn't ever say nor hint at that. The engine is scalable for different platforms. There are obvious concessions that have to be made though, hence the 30fps limit and the resolution being technically sub hd 1280 x 704.
    Technically, you did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050
    Saying that DICE can't make a good looking 60fps console bcuz it already runs at 30fps on consoles is the same as saying DICE can't make a good looking 30fps game on consoles bcuz it is already too demanding on PC
    Any engine can be scaled down to whatever hardware they want it to run on. Any game can be scaled down from running @ 30fps to 60fps. What has you so convinced that Call of Dury cannot have its graphics surpassed by another 60fps game?
    Last edited by Inzane2050; 01-25-2012 at 12:42.
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  12. #111
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    No, technically I didn't, unless you wanna quote where I did.

    Of course the game could be scaled back visually to run at 60fps. Whats your point?




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    No, technically I didn't, unless you wanna quote where I did.

    Of course the game could be scaled back visually to run at 60fps. Whats your point?
    Technically, you did. If a game running on demanding PC hardware can be scaled back to run and look great on consoles, then a game can be scaled back from 30fps to 60fps and look great. If one of those isn't true, then they are both false.

    And you already know my point:
    Last edited by Inzane2050; 01-25-2012 at 13:02.
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  14. #113
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    I have no idea what you even mean any more man.

    If BF3 was 60fps, it wouldn't look anything like it does now. It'd look, GASP, like MW3.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I have no idea what you even mean any more man.

    If BF3 was 60fps, it wouldn't look anything like it does now. It'd look, GASP, like MW3.
    You are right. The PC version of Battlefield 3 doesn't look anything like the console version.
    Last edited by Inzane2050; 01-25-2012 at 13:24.
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  16. #115
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    Obviously I was talking about the game on consoles. smh




  17. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Obviously I was talking about the game on consoles. smh
    Same difference.
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  18. #117
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    No, actually, it isn't. When I'm talking about the game on consoles, we're talking about the concessions and hits the game would have to take to achieve 60fps. When you're talking about the PC, and how it achieves the same fps, it doesn't have those scale backs because the engine is capable of producing better results due to the more powerful hardware.

    Anything else I can clarify for you before I get some sleep?




  19. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    No, actually, it isn't. When I'm talking about the game on consoles, we're talking about the concessions and hits the game would have to take to achieve 60fps. When you're talking about the PC, and how it achieves the same fps, it doesn't have those scale backs because the engine is capable of producing better results due to the more powerful hardware.

    Anything else I can clarify for you before I get some sleep?
    Actually, I think you may be right. The difference between the PC version of BF3 and the console version is about 12-16x times the power. The difference between 30fps and 60fps on consoles is only about 2-3x power difference.
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  20. #119
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    This last page has made litterally no sense to me what so ever.

    MW3 can't have better graphics due to it running at 60FPS if they try to upgrade the visuals too much they will sacrifice the frame rate and the frame rate is probably the most important thing about the COD franchise. They can do small incremental updates to the engine but there is only so much they can get out of the consoles.

    BF3 runs at 30FPS because they went for scale and tried to make it pretty, when you (inzane)say it's a heavily modified version of the PC game it is, it's all the settings turned on low with the resolution dropped under 720p. There is no way in hell that they could get BF3 running on the PS3/360 at 60FPS, not going to happen. At. All. Again, there is only so much you can get out of the current gen hardware.

    DICE went for size and visuals. IW has gone for framerate and reduced visuals.

    What about that is so confusing?

    What FB2.0 games are running at 60FPS? i'd like to see some of those because as far as i'm aware CoD is the only FPS, retail, franchise hitting 60fps
    Last edited by BBK..; 01-25-2012 at 16:34.

  21. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    This last page has made litterally no sense what so ever.

    MW3 can't have better graphics due to it running at 60FPS if they try to upgrade the visuals too much they will sacrifice the frame rate and the frame rate is probably the most important thing about the COD franchise. They can do small incremental updates to the engine but there is only so much they can get out of the consoles.

    BF3 runs at 30FPS because they went for scale and tried to make it pretty, when you (inzane)say it's a heavily modified version of the PC game it is, it's all the settings turned on low with the resolution dropped under 720p. There is no way in hell that they could get BF3 running on the PS3/360 at 60FPS, not going to happen. At. All. Again, there is only so much you can get out of the current gen hardware.

    DICE went for size and visuals. IW has gone for framerate and reduced visuals.

    What about that is so confusing?
    The engine was both reworked and toned down to run on consoles as was Crysis 2. All three versions of the game have been coded uniquely to run efficiently on their respective platforms. Reworking the game for 60fps on consoles will obviously lose a little bit of quality as did the console version to the PC, but it will remain the same nonetheless and look better than Call of Duty. Not only that, but I enjoy Battlefield 3's unique visual style. Call of Duty's general visual presentation has been largely untouched on the other hand and it is not horsepower that is hold that back.
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    A little bit? It would loose alot more detail than just a little bit. I'm 100% sure that if DICE thought they could match the framerate found in the CoD games they would've. Tell you what, find me a nicer looking game than CoD that runs at 60FPS and is a retail game... I'll wait.

    Of course what you find pretty and what i find pretty is subjective as they are both separate art styles.

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    DICE would not have bothered with 60fps as 95% of devs have not for the sole reason that they want to make it as pretty as possible. It has little to do with whether it can be done at 60fps. Honestly tho, 30fps was only really needed so they could keep the game looking as close to the PC version as possible. That special real-time GI of theirs is only possible with 30fps. But if you take out the GI, rework the shadow rendering and various other effects, lower the draw distance, and lower the resolution; you still have a great looking game.

    As far as a comparable title to Call of Duty, Rage is definitely on the same level as MW3, and I believe the game runs at 720p. I might be mistaken tho. Either way, I am simply more fond of BF3 visual style (personal taste), but contrary to what people have been saying, a 60fps console game can capture BF3's unique and beautiful visual style and not be technically inferior to CoD.

    Call of Duty's visuals have just been too much the same for me. It would be nice if they made better incremental increases to the visuals and colors like what Assassin's Creed has done.
    Last edited by Inzane2050; 01-25-2012 at 17:22.
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    Omg...i go to sleep for a few hours and this happens!?...this might take awhile on my phone lolol

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    The console versions of BF3 are stripped down versions of a powerful engine incapable of running on consoles and yet it looks great. How can a Frostbite 2 game running at 60fps look worse than Call of Duty, a game than runs at 60fps.
    Because you have no concept of how game engines function...each engine approaches things differently, has their own strengths and weaknesses. You can't simply swap things in and out and "scale back" at will...for instance...you can't swap out lighting solutions because it might be tied closely to your rendering solution...

    The reason q FB2.0 game running at 60fps might look worse than CoD is because the two engines are so different that to scale the detail back enough in FB 2.0 to allow consoles to run at 60fps you would probably have to go lower detail than CoD games...the IW engine is very streamlined and designed with 60fps on consoles in mind...FB 2.0 is not...they don't use the same lighting solutions, or rendering solutions, or texture streaming...you're try in to make this an apples to apples comparison when its apples to oranges at best...

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Call of Duty is not the best looking 60fps game so there is no reason why you should think it would be so difficult. You act as if Call of Duty's graphics are impossible of anyone else to achieve.
    Show me a full scale retail FPS with better graphics than MW3 running at a solid 60fps...

    And no, nobody has ever said CoD graphics cannot be passed...certainly they can...but if it was as easy as you think...why has nobody done it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    But if you don't mind explaining yourself, how are Battlefield 3's textures more demanding than Call of Duty's?
    texture resolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    The question was to ask what prevents BF3 textures from being used in place in Call of Duty's. So aside from obviously texture resolution, what is more demanding about BF3 textures vs Call of Duty?
    THE RESOLUTION IS MORE DEMANDING holy crap dude! The resolution is the most demanding aspect of textures...

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    BF3 runs perfectly fine on consoles bcuz it was optimized to do so. Saying that DICE can't make a good looking 60fps console bcuz it already runs at 30fps on consoles is the same as saying DICE can't make a good looking 30fps game on consoles bcuz it is already too demanding on PC.
    No not at all...Nobody is saying DICE can't make a good looking 60fps game on consoles...but their engine is not designed to do it and therefore would need to be HEAVILY modified to do it...or they could scale back the detail enough so that the game looked like crap and it would run at 60fps...

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    BF3 will obviously have more of a 60fps look to it, but is to stop them from surpassing Call of Duty in both artistic and technical fidelity?
    huh? 60fps feel?! What!?

    Also, lets put an end to this "artistic fidelity" crap...no such thing...can't be measured...irrelevant topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    So basically you are saying bcuz Frostbite 2 runs on demanding PC hardware, it cannot run and look great on consoles. That obviously makes sense considering they never did that.
    WHAT!?


    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Whether you believe it or not, Call of Duty's graphics can be surpassed by other 60fps games, both artistic and technical. Call of Duty is not the best looking game.
    Nobody has ever said CoD is the best looking game...but for 60fps shooters...its damn gorgeous...

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Technically, you did.
    non he didnt

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Any engine can be scaled down to whatever hardware they want it to run on.
    sorta...but some engines (PS3 exclusives) are designed with very specific hardware in mind...and simply "scaling them back" would do you no good...

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Any game can be scaled down from running @ 30fps to 60fps.
    in theory yes...but each engine is so different that its impossible to say where and how much you would need to scale back to get there...


    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    What has you so convinced that Call of Dury cannot have its graphics surpassed by another 60fps game?
    again, nobody said this at all...

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Technically, you did. If a game running on demanding PC hardware can be scaled back to run and look great on consoles, then a game can be scaled back from 30fps to 60fps and look great. If one of those isn't true, then they are both false.
    . You failed logic in math freshman year of HS didn't you?


    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Actually, I think you may be right. The difference between the PC version of BF3 and the console version is about 12-16x times the power. The difference between 30fps and 60fps on consoles is only about 2-3x power difference.
    as if we didn't already know you had no idea what you were talking about you just proved it right there...

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    The engine was both reworked and toned down to run on consoles as was Crysis 2. All three versions of the game have been coded uniquely to run efficiently on their respective platforms. Reworking the game for 60fps on consoles will obviously lose a little bit of quality as did the console version to the PC, but it will remain the same nonetheless and look better than Call of Duty.
    omg dude, you're so lost...

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Not only that, but I enjoy Battlefield 3's unique visual style. Call of Duty's general visual presentation has been largely untouched on the other hand and it is not horsepower that is hold that back.
    and like I've said before...visual styling is subjective...has nothing to do with a games engine...and can't really be argued...its a personal preference...


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    BF3's texture resolution is not relevant to whether or not they can be used for CoD. The artistic fidelity is just as important to graphics as anything else regardless if it is subjective. Most people would agree that Castlevania looks better than Blue Dragon even tho Blue Dragon has higher technical fidelity. Or that the colors are improved in AC Brotherhood. And contrary to what you have indeed said, a 60fps console game can capture BF3's unique and beautiful visual style and not be technically inferior to CoD. And Rage, as already stated, is on level with Call of Duty MW3.

    And again, stop with the petty insults. You don't make yourself look good when you resort to such a childish act. Argue this nonsense with someone else if you can't be respectful. Adios.
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  26. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    BF3's texture resolution is not relevant to whether or not they can be used for CoD.
    what!? are you kidding me?...how can texture resolution be irrelevant? this is unbelievable...

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    The artistic fidelity is just as important to graphics as anything else regardless if it is subjective.
    there is no such thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Most people would agree that Castlevania looks better than Blue Dragon even tho Blue Dragon has higher technical fidelity. Or that the colors are improved in AC Brotherhood.
    you have NO IDEA what you're talking about lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    And contrary to what you have indeed said, a 60fps console game can capture BF3's unique and beautiful visual style and not be technically inferior to CoD.
    nobody said it can't! Honest question...do you choose to ignore the posts made in response to you, or do you really not have the ability to comprehend what we have tried to explain to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    And Rage, as already stated, is on level with Call of Duty MW3.
    whats your point? nobody said a game couldn't look better than CoD and be 60fps...

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    And again, stop with the petty insults. You don't make yourself look good when you resort to such a childish act. Argue this nonsense with someone else if you can't be respectful. Adios.
    i don't care what i look like on these forums...all that matters is talking to intelligent people about intelligent topics...
    PSN: Metfanant
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