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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    A little bit? It would loose alot more detail than just a little bit. I'm 100% sure that if DICE thought they could match the framerate found in the CoD games they would've. Tell you what, find me a nicer looking game than CoD that runs at 60FPS and is a retail game... I'll wait.

    Of course what you find pretty and what i find pretty is subjective as they are both separate art styles.
    True that would be tough to find. I love COD and I like BF3. I own both and enjoy both. But COD has 10 times more play time on it from me compared to my play time with BF3. BF3 might be 10 times better looking, but that doesn't matter when the game that looks 10 times worse is be played 10 times more by me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Exactly. Frostbite 2 can do 60fps on consoles. All it takes is optimizing it to do so. The console versions of BF3 are just optimized ports of a very powerful PC engine to begin with. Same can be said for Cryengine 3. Any engine can run at 60fps on consoles.
    What exactly are you looking for when you say "optimized?" If they optimize an engine for the sake of doubling the frame rate they would lose a lot of the fidelity you are looking for. If they optimize to look better they sacrifice frame rate. You can't have it both ways. And the color argument is laughable. I could paint my dogs crap pink and it's still going to be crap. You have said a number of times that you just want a new artistic style. When COD 4 came out it was new and had it's own unique style, one that they have decided to stick with for this generation. That decision more than likely has something to with the fact that the COD brand is the most valuable entertainment IP in the world, all because of what they have done with it this gen. Why would they change the style when it is doing so well? I think you know that. So then you just go to saying well look at frostbite 2, that looks great and I somehow know even though I haven't worked on the engine that I can make it run at 60 FPS on consoles! ...That is just ignorant. You're running in the same circle over and over and it's actually pretty fun to watch. Keep up the good work I say.

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  4. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeDubya View Post
    What exactly are you looking for when you say "optimized?" If they optimize an engine for the sake of doubling the frame rate they would lose a lot of the fidelity you are looking for. If they optimize to look better they sacrifice frame rate. You can't have it both ways. And the color argument is laughable. I could paint my dogs crap pink and it's still going to be crap. You have said a number of times that you just want a new artistic style. When COD 4 came out it was new and had it's own unique style, one that they have decided to stick with for this generation. That decision more than likely has something to with the fact that the COD brand is the most valuable entertainment IP in the world, all because of what they have done with it this gen. Why would they change the style when it is doing so well? I think you know that. So then you just go to saying well look at frostbite 2, that looks great and I somehow know even though I haven't worked on the engine that I can make it run at 60 FPS on consoles! ...That is just ignorant. You're running in the same circle over and over and it's actually pretty fun to watch. Keep up the good work I say.
    Well said. +rep.

    The devs already said they were sticking with 30fps because it's a slower game, and they couldn't do the scale and visuals + amount of players + vehicles + destruction if they were to do the game @ 60fps. The game wouldn't even be the same if it were @60fps content wise and visually.




  5. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeDubya View Post
    What exactly are you looking for when you say "optimized?" If they optimize an engine for the sake of doubling the frame rate they would lose a lot of the fidelity you are looking for. If they optimize to look better they sacrifice frame rate. You can't have it both ways. And the color argument is laughable. I could paint my dogs crap pink and it's still going to be crap. You have said a number of times that you just want a new artistic style. When COD 4 came out it was new and had it's own unique style, one that they have decided to stick with for this generation. That decision more than likely has something to with the fact that the COD brand is the most valuable entertainment IP in the world, all because of what they have done with it this gen. Why would they change the style when it is doing so well? I think you know that. So then you just go to saying well look at frostbite 2, that looks great and I somehow know even though I haven't worked on the engine that I can make it run at 60 FPS on consoles! ...That is just ignorant. You're running in the same circle over and over and it's actually pretty fun to watch. Keep up the good work I say.
    Amen

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    This guy has to be a troll.
    And a very successful one at that, seeing as you guys have been at this for a while.
    Nobody can be that dense.
    Last edited by Merchant; 01-26-2012 at 19:28.

  7. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakihara_Anjo View Post
    This guy has to be a troll.
    And a very successful of at that seeing as you guys have been at this for a while.
    Nobody can be that dense.
    Hope you're right for his sake...

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  9. #133
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    I can't believe what I've just read through in these 6 pages. I feel so much dumber lol.

    Seeing as everything else in his arguments has been completely shattered over and over and over again, I'm only going to attack one of the points.

    Inzane you talk about making the Frostbite engine run at 60 fps on consoles like it's some trivial task. You just throw the word "optimize" out there like you even know what it means (other than the obvious definition of, der, to make it better and more efficient). In order to get it to run on consoles at even 30 fps, a significant amount of optimization had to have been done. And you can't just keep improving quality and keep optimizing to make it run the same. At a certain point, you hit a wall. There's a limit to optimization. At a certain point, code is written as optimally as it can be written (for a certain purpose). And there's a trade off, if you optimize a certain aspect, something else usually takes a hit when doing so.

    There's a reason why so few console games run at 60 fps. It's ****ing hard to do it (and more importantly, to do it well).
    Last edited by Shibby; 01-28-2012 at 09:30.


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  11. #134
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    Shibby~

    I'm sorry to say that optimizing for 60fps is easy, especially when compared to the work already put into getting both Frostbite 2 and Cryengine 3 to run on consoles in the first place. But I'm sure you also believe BF3's textures can't be used in CoD for no explicit reason; in which case, whether you think it is dumb or not, I wouldn't really care. But if you wish to discuss this further tho, I suggest you keep the petty comments to yourself.
    Last edited by Inzane2050; 01-28-2012 at 10:57.
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  12. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Shibby~

    I'm sorry to say that optimizing for 60fps is easy, especially when compared to the work already put into getting both Frostbite 2 and Cryengine 3 to run on consoles in the first place. But I'm sure you also believe BF3's textures can't be used in CoD for no explicit reason; in which case, whether you think it is dumb or not, I wouldn't really care. But if you wish to discuss this further tho, I suggest you keep the petty comments to yourself.
    How many games have you developed for the PS3 and 360?


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  14. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Shibby~

    I'm sorry to say that optimizing for 60fps is easy, especially when compared to the work already put into getting both Frostbite 2 and Cryengine 3 to run on consoles in the first place.
    oh dear lord in heaven...are you kidding me?!...EASY TO GET FB2.0 RUNNING @ 60fps!?...if its so easy why is it then that DICE has made the game that runs at at an average framerate of 29.66 fps on the 360 and 29.96fps on the PS3...and over 10% of frames tear on both versions?!...do you know why frames tear? because the engine can't keep up with itself and the hardware falls behind and does not render frames in time...so for every 100 frames (about 3 seconds) FB 2.0 hiccups on itself and tears a frame...

    yet in your fantasy world it would be EASY for them to DOUBLE the framerate???....WOWWWWW....



    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    But I'm sure you also believe BF3's textures can't be used in CoD for no explicit reason;
    who said that? why are you making things up??

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    How many games have you developed for the PS3 and 360?


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    LoL... +1


    btw...off topic sidebar question...have you tried the new Tapatalk HD for the iPad...trying to decide which i want to spend money on because id rather not buy both lol
    Last edited by Metfanant; 01-28-2012 at 14:35.
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  16. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    How many games have you developed for the PS3 and 360?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I have actually done a lot of work with computer graphics and programming.
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  17. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    I have actually done a lot of work with computer graphics and programming.
    if true, then some of your comments are inexcusable

    just to throw a little fuel on the fire...here are some more tidbits from the net...

    here are some comments by Richard Leadbetter from Eurogamer's Digital Foundry

    With input lag measured at 50ms - or three frames - Modern Warfare 3 simply feels so much more crisp and responsive than any other first-person shooter we've played on the current-generation consoles.....

    ...As the video demonstrates, Battlefield 3 on console - running at 30FPS - clearly has a deficit in response in comparison with Modern Warfare 3. Our latency measurement of 116ms might not sound too fantastic (it's over twice the response time of its competitor) but it is roughly ballpark within a frame or two with a whole host of other console shooters. For reference, 116ms is the same as Killzone 3 and 16ms faster than Epic's Bulletstorm.
    However, Call of Duty's unique strength is also in a sense its greatest weakness. The notion of processing gameplay and rendering a whole new frame in less than 16.66ms means that key aspects of the tech are highly unlikely to improve radically during this console generation.
    As has been explained to you...IW has its hands tied due to the framerate at which MW3 runs...

    Particles, lighting and effects work in general have improved significantly compared to Modern Warfare 2, and the introduction of a new, context-driven audio system makes MW3 sound a lot better than its predecessors.
    OMG...are those IMPROVEMENTS to the graphics of MW3 that you refuse to admit are there...they even used the word SIGNIFICANT to reference the improvement from MW2 to MW3...

    although the room for improvement here can only go so far owing to the tight rendering budget.
    once again, handicapped by the framerate...

    DICE's approach on console is remarkably different. While dropping down to 30 frames per second obviously impacts input lag, doubling the available rendering time opens up a whole new world of possibilities. The tile-based deferred rendering setup allows for lighting that is in a completely different league to what the IW engine is capable of on Modern Warfare 3, so hundreds of light sources can be rendered simultaneously - point lights, lens flare, emissive particles and muzzle flashes are all genuinely dynamic light-sources.
    What BF3 accomplishes visually is possible BECAUSE it runs at half the framerate of MW3...

    In a sense, Modern Warfare 3 plays like the ultimate iteration of a gameplay formula that first found its feet with Quake 3 Arena, while BF3 offers up a full-on Battlefield experience - visually the console versions may be cut-down, but every element of the core feature-set is there. Each game has its own strengths and weaknesses, essentially boiling down to a higher frame-rate and controller response against bigger maps, more players, and a higher level of fidelity in graphics and sound.
    its the trade off...based on current console hardware youre not going to get both...
    Last edited by Metfanant; 01-28-2012 at 15:11.
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  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    I have actually done a lot of work with computer graphics and programming.
    That's funny, because in another thread where you were making the same asinine arguments you said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    I'm not a developer sp I really don't know. But Infinity Ward knows plenty of things they can do.
    Doesn't sound like someone who has done any real work with graphics or programming to me. More like someone who wants to keep getting proven wrong in oh so many different ways. I don't claim to be a programmer but I have enough of an understanding of things to know that what you have been saying these past couple pages is just crazy. Again, keep up the good work. I'm glad you're back.

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  21. #140
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    GeorgeDubya~

    Nice way to take things out of context. I enjoy watching you twist my words as if it has any effect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    GeorgeDubya~

    Nice way to take things out of context. I enjoy watching you twist my words as if it has any effect.
    I see you've given up your attempts yo actually put together a defense anymorr

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Its titbits.
    nah...its tidbit...titbit is a variant of tidbit...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    GeorgeDubya~

    Nice way to take things out of context. I enjoy watching you twist my words as if it has any effect.
    Oh really? Let's look a couple of posts before that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Why are you so unoptimistic about CoD having anything changed about it? I want games to get better, not to be in a perpetual state of "now." The series needs to go forward. Call of Duty has that potential, but Activision is restricting their creativity just as Microsoft does.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    I'm not being pessimistic about the situation. I do welcome change but I don't see what exactly needs change. It's all good and well saying add features but what features do you think need to be added? I can't think of any thats why I'm not suggesting it needs change but whenever people say it does they never suggest what they would change


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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    I'm not a developer sp I really don't know. But Infinity Ward knows plenty of things they can do.
    Basically the same argument. You were wanting COD to "change," but wouldn't give details on exactly how besides it should just look better. You also thought they should add some new animations (which, by the way, they have.) Now you're suddenly an expert on these matters and IW are obviously just lazy and don't want to put in any real work. My point was that a couple of weeks ago you didn't have any idea on exactly how they should go about improving the game. Have you done all this work on graphics and processing in the past month? Hard to believe. Even if you do have all that experience, that wasn't the question. He asked how many engines you have worked on specifically for the PS3 and 360. That is what is relevant to this discussion. You can't go on and on about how one engine is so much better than another and say that textures can be thrown around like nothing on hardware you haven't worked on. What is out of context please?

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    If you followed the convo, then you would have seen I was talking about gameplay there. It can be annoying when things are taken out of context. I can explain for you how 60fps is not a hindrance if you'd like to hear what I have to say.
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    I'd like to take this time to apologize to everyone for reviving this thread. It's clearly pointless.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    I can explain for you how 60fps is not a hindrance if you'd like to hear what I have to say.
    Oh this I've got to hear!

    Somebody get Naughty Dog, and Guerilla Games on the phone! This guy is about to tell us all how to magically find the processing power to double the frame rate of their games


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  31. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    Shibby~

    I'm sorry to say that optimizing for 60fps is easy, especially when compared to the work already put into getting both Frostbite 2 and Cryengine 3 to run on consoles in the first place. But I'm sure you also believe BF3's textures can't be used in CoD for no explicit reason; in which case, whether you think it is dumb or not, I wouldn't really care. But if you wish to discuss this further tho, I suggest you keep the petty comments to yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    If you followed the convo, then you would have seen I was talking about gameplay there. It can be annoying when things are taken out of context. I can explain for you how 60fps is not a hindrance if you'd like to hear what I have to say.
    I'd love to hear this.. IW/Sledge, ND, etc., will be dying to get their hands on this piece of info.




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    and there was me saying I wanted to get rid of the hall of fame/shame because it was getting pointless
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