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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    Trolling and Flaming offenses do not get any type of warning. We go straight to a 10 point infraction, and 10 points results in a 7-day ban.

    This policy began in August if I'm not mistaken.
    I understand that, but this was for "insulting/harrasing a member". ( I if you can find a single instance of me saying anything about the member good luck).
    Yet I can see multiple multiple warnings for the same offense for other members.
    Hell theres a member directly under my infraction with a warning for the same thing.

    As I say go figure. It seems to be pick and choose at times.

    http://www.psu.com/forums/forumdispl...ge2?order=desc
    Last edited by mynd; 02-03-2012 at 20:40.
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  2. #77
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    I agreed with mankind when I first looked at this thread, but now I'm inclined to disagree. The rules here really aren't difficult to follow. There are a hell of a lot of them, but none of them are asking too much of people. Humor is humor, but there is a fine line between being funny and personally attacking someone. If you're banned, you likely were warned several times in the past, spoken to with several members of staff, and given plenty of opportunities to change your ways.

    The staff is more lenient than most of us (myself included) give them credit for.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I understand that, but this was for "insulting/harrasing a member". ( I if you can find a single instance of me saying anything about the member good luck).
    Yet I can see multiple multiple warnings for the same offense for other members.
    Hell theres a member directly under my infraction with a warning for the same thing.

    As I say go figure. It seems to be pick and choose at times.

    http://www.psu.com/forums/forumdispl...ge2?order=desc
    Well, you did have two user notes and two infractions, which involved trolling and derailment. I suppose DC took that into account, but you'll have to ask him.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    Well, you did have two user notes and two infractions, which involved trolling and derailment. I suppose DC took that into account, but you'll have to ask him.
    If you look into those supposed infractions, you would see just how weak they were to start with.
    If you are going to take into account past infractions, you best be actually looking at the sevirity and frequancy of them before you decide if you warn or simply infract someone for an unrelated issue.

    As I say I dont loose sleep over it, but I certinaly can see how some get annoyed at times.
    Last edited by mynd; 02-03-2012 at 23:29.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    If you look into those supposed infractions, you would see just how weak they were to start with.
    If you are going to take into account past infractions, you best be actually looking at the sevirity and frequancy of them before you decide if you warn or simply infract someone for an unrelated issue.

    As I say I dont loose sleep over it, but I certinaly can see how some get annoyed at times.
    I just went back and looked at the report discussion, and Agriel said he warned you about that type of behavior before, so he asked DC to infract you. That's the dealio. I wasn't involved in that discussion, so you'll have to speak with Agriel or DC if you want more answers.

  6. #81
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    It's simple. Attack the post and not the poster. Keep it clean and nobody gets banned.

    I learned real fast how things work around here. I haven't had an infraction since the first year i was here i believe and i've never been banned. Even though my posts that received infractions were more or less humor posts i quickly changed my style and i've gone years without getting any sort of warning.

    At the end of the day, the people that really deserve to be disciplined are dealt with. You have to earn it. If you don't like someone's opinion then disagree with it but once you attack that poster it's on you.


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  9. #83
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    I still think the rules are too strict.
    You shouldn't ban your best members and you definitely shouldn't let a autoban-rule decide it.
    Don't forget that some people have been here for years, you wouldn't kick a buddy out just because he insulted you in the heat of the moment once or twice, would you!?

    This is still "just" a gamesforum, i don't expect the most civilized discussion, i expect entertainment.
    Bitchfights and tasteless jokes are part of the internetculture as far as i'm concerned.

    Get rid of that stupid autoban feature, and if it's a longtime member just write him/her a PM and tell him to cut the crap.
    The factt that he's been here for so long shows that he can behave 99,99% of the time doesn't it?

  10. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast of Bourbon View Post
    I still think the rules are too strict.
    You shouldn't ban your best members and you definitely shouldn't let a autoban-rule decide it.
    Don't forget that some people have been here for years, you wouldn't kick a buddy out just because he insulted you in the heat of the moment once or twice, would you!?

    This is still "just" a gamesforum, i don't expect the most civilized discussion, i expect entertainment.
    Bitchfights and tasteless jokes are part of the internetculture as far as i'm concerned.

    Get rid of that stupid autoban feature, and if it's a longtime member just write him/her a PM and tell him to cut the crap.
    The factt that he's been here for so long shows that he can behave 99,99% of the time doesn't it?
    That's the point though... they do PM them first and tell them to cut the crap. The fact that someone has been here for a long time is irrelevant. One long term member can discourage numerous new members from joining the forums and becoming active participants.

    It might be "just" a game forum to you and me, but it's a business for someone else. That business is largely influenced by growth. Keeping problematic members at the expense of that growth just because they've been here a while isn't good businses sense.
    Last edited by F34R; 02-13-2012 at 13:21.




  11. Likes Two4DaMoney , Agriel , Ixion , The Black Wolf, RaY_210 , Cuguy , Kwes wishes they had posted this first.
  12. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    That's the point though... they do PM them first and tell them to cut the crap. The fact that someone has been here for a long time is irrelevant. One long term member can discourage numerous new members from joining the forums and becoming active participants.
    Exactly, its on the older members to behave more so then any new member. If I was a new member that saw old members acting like asses, then they've been doing forever, so I probably can too. Old members should be given the right to act up just cause they have been here a long time.
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  13. #86
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    I totally understand where you guys are comming from and longtime members really should know better.
    However a forum lives from the content that is created by it's (dedicated) members and a thing called "community".
    Only the community made me want to create an account all these years ago because i wanted to be a part of it.
    (That account was banned because some people didn't like my username btw )

    Call it the soul of a forum or whatever but without it you'll not only be unable to attract new members but you'll also risk losing your current members.
    Last edited by Beast of Bourbon; 02-13-2012 at 13:59.

  14. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast of Bourbon View Post
    I totally understand where you guys are comming from and longtime members really should know better.
    However a forum lives from the content that is created by it's (dedicated) members and a thing called "community".
    Only the community made me want to create an account all these years ago because i wanted to be a part of it.
    (That account was banned because some people didn't like my username btw )

    Call it the soul of a forum or whatever but without it you won't be able to attract new members and you risk losing the members you already have.
    it's a tightrope though. if we allow long time members to get a pass, it breeds hostility. "why did he get banned, and not this guy" sort of stuff.

    Here we lay out the rules probably clearer than most forums, and put it in a member's hand to determine their course.

    If we let the rules slack, then we run the risk of forums devolving into steaming piles of poo faster than they do now with the rules as they are. People cannot seem to discuss in a civil manner when it comes to games these days. It is too much about "sales" and "who is in first place", etc.. rather than enjoying the features and fun in the games.

    It is a hard balance though... do you cater to keep your long time members or try to attract a lot of newcomers. It can be argued both ways, here especially. A lot of the old timers have their little segregated clicks. The "ban thread" people, the "design" people, etc... Groups like that often make it seem harder for an outsider to join in. Also, the long standing members sometimes feel entitled to a rule break here or there. Hey if the long standing members can get away with it, surely a newcomer can right?

    It can be viewed as hostile by potential newcomers that we ban long time people because they don't see that the thread was likely prevented from a crap pile. Or they could look at a loosely moderated forum with slack rules (if we went that way) and see a place that looks like GAF and they can't find news through all the arguments.

    In the end, what F34R said is the key. A lot of the decisions, like it or not, will be made to keep the forums alive, not keep elder members happy. If we do not keep revenue up with ads, getting new members, getting subs, and so on, then the forums run more of a risk of problems than if we ban someone like F34R for a week for being a douche in a thread (sorry F34R, you were a convenient what-if scenario LOL)....

    There is no simple answer. Each way to moderate a forum carries with it its own issues. No rules vs. strict rules. What we DID do was prevent mods from being able to ban at a whim. If you put it in a members hand to control their point totals, then they are 100% responsible for their posting style and if it will accrue any points. As far as I know, we are the only site out there (major one anyway) that gives PM warnings and official warnings before infractions. Most sites, GAF, N4G, IGN, etc.. all just ban you right out with your 1st troll slip up. Here, you get three strikes for trolling before you are gone.

    People may view our rules as strict, but IMO, we are very lenient towards problematic members and enforcing the rules. Definitely more lenient than staff of past here.

  15. Likes Kwes wishes they had posted this first.
  16. #88
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    I know it aint easy and to be honest i wouldn't want to be in your position.
    Thx for your extensive reply (instead of just saying "deal with it or gtfo" ).

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    The way I see it: these are GAMES. I know the industry itself is serious business, but when it comes down to us, the customers, they should be seen as purely an entertainment platform. So I don't know why people get offended and defensive when one's view doesn't agree with theirs. There may be a lot of rules here, but as long you know how to keep things in perspective, and just use some common sense, there really shouldn't be any reason to get any kind of infraction unless you're trying to, or just don't care. Also, just because you type it, doesn't mean you have to post it. Think before you post.
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  18. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast of Bourbon View Post
    I know it aint easy and to be honest i wouldn't want to be in your position.
    Thx for your extensive reply (instead of just saying "deal with it or gtfo" ).

    ya know, unlike some CM's, I do read these posts and consider them all. Really, my end goal is to find the mythical happy middle ground between rules and people being happy.

    One thing I did towards that was remove the stupid swear filter within two hours of being made CM. It was childish. I made a strong rule nod to get trolls out of here, 10 point infractions, then I deleted the double post rule.

    Believe it or not, we do actively discuss the rules all the time. I am starting to lean towards a refresh. I did a report on the number of infractions given and it seems that we typically infract for small percentage of the actual number of rules. Over the next few weeks, or month or so, we will likely discuss rules that no longer apply, or can go away.

    However, just to be clear, the big ones are staying LOL No trolling, bait, flaming, insulting, harassing, etc... that sort of stuff is just not needed here and will still be smited.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaY_210 View Post
    The way I see it: these are GAMES. I know the industry itself is serious business, but when it comes down to us, the customers, they should be seen as purely an entertainment platform. So I don't know why people get offended and defensive when one's view doesn't agree with theirs. There may be a lot of rules here, but as long you know how to keep things in perspective, and just use some common sense, there really shouldn't be any reason to get any kind of infraction unless you're trying to, or just don't care. Also, just because you type it, doesn't mean you have to post it. Think before you post.
    As misguided as it is, some people believe that if they throw their weight into supporting a console, it somehow makes a difference in the world. Some also believe, also foolishly, that there is some sort of grand battle between the consoles. Lastly, there are some people who view the console as an investment, rather than entertainment. As such, they vehemently fight for their console in order to reassure themselves that it was the right pick. God forbid the console they didn't buy has a great game. That can't happen. You will see those people start bringing up a specific title as some sort of failsafe. It happens on both consoles.

    When people lose the brain to keyboard filter is what the rules are for.
    Last edited by Cuguy; 02-13-2012 at 16:23.

  19. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuguy View Post
    ya know, unlike some CM's, I do read these posts and consider them all. Really, my end goal is to find the mythical happy middle ground between rules and people being happy.

    One thing I did towards that was remove the stupid swear filter within two hours of being made CM. It was childish. I made a strong rule nod to get trolls out of here, 10 point infractions, then I deleted the double post rule.

    Believe it or not, we do actively discuss the rules all the time. I am starting to lean towards a refresh. I did a report on the number of infractions given and it seems that we typically infract for small percentage of the actual number of rules. Over the next few weeks, or month or so, we will likely discuss rules that no longer apply, or can go away.

    However, just to be clear, the big ones are staying LOL No trolling, bait, flaming, insulting, harassing, etc... that sort of stuff is just not needed here and will still be smited.



    As misguided as it is, some people believe that if they throw their weight into supporting a console, it somehow makes a difference in the world. Some also believe, also foolishly, that there is some sort of grand battle between the consoles. Lastly, there are some people who view the console as an investment, rather than entertainment. As such, they vehemently fight for their console in order to reassure themselves that it was the right pick. God forbid the console they didn't buy has a great game. That can't happen. You will see those people start bringing up a specific title as some sort of failsafe. It happens on both consoles.

    When people lose the brain to keyboard filter is what the rules are for.
    So what the hell? Nintendo doesn't have a console? You don't like Nintendo? What's your problem?

    /sarcasm
    But yeah, I understand how one can see it as an investment, as theres lots of money put into it. But it's how you yourself sees its worth that matters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaY_210 View Post
    So what the hell? Nintendo doesn't have a console? You don't like Nintendo? What's your problem?

    /sarcasm
    But yeah, I understand how one can see it as an investment, as theres lots of money put into it. But it's how you yourself sees its worth that matters.
    Who is Nintendo?




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    Quote Originally Posted by RaY_210 View Post
    So what the hell? Nintendo doesn't have a console? You don't like Nintendo? What's your problem?

    /sarcasm
    But yeah, I understand how one can see it as an investment, as theres lots of money put into it. But it's how you yourself sees its worth that matters.
    Nintendo fans are out playing their games.

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  23. #94
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    And to be fair our little Nintnedo community here is growing and a lot more active than it used to be.

    Which is good for the forums in a whole!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuguy View Post
    ya know, unlike some CM's, I do read these posts and consider them all. Really, my end goal is to find the mythical happy middle ground between rules and people being happy.

    One thing I did towards that was remove the stupid swear filter within two hours of being made CM. It was childish. I made a strong rule nod to get trolls out of here, 10 point infractions, then I deleted the double post rule.

    Believe it or not, we do actively discuss the rules all the time. I am starting to lean towards a refresh. I did a report on the number of infractions given and it seems that we typically infract for small percentage of the actual number of rules. Over the next few weeks, or month or so, we will likely discuss rules that no longer apply, or can go away.

    However, just to be clear, the big ones are staying LOL No trolling, bait, flaming, insulting, harassing, etc... that sort of stuff is just not needed here and will still be smited.



    As misguided as it is, some people believe that if they throw their weight into supporting a console, it somehow makes a difference in the world. Some also believe, also foolishly, that there is some sort of grand battle between the consoles. Lastly, there are some people who view the console as an investment, rather than entertainment. As such, they vehemently fight for their console in order to reassure themselves that it was the right pick. God forbid the console they didn't buy has a great game. That can't happen. You will see those people start bringing up a specific title as some sort of failsafe. It happens on both consoles.

    When people lose the brain to keyboard filter is what the rules are for.
    It might just be the amount of ffxiii-2 playing and my insanity kicking in but after reading this i pictured 3 giant consoles xbox, ps3 , wii with armies of cosplaying fanboys in an apocalyptic setting fighting in an endless war, BECAUSE THERE CAN ONLY BE 1 a console version of Valhalla

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuguy View Post
    it's a tightrope though. if we allow long time members to get a pass, it breeds hostility. "why did he get banned, and not this guy" sort of stuff.
    As long as that continues not to count towards me Im good
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    That's the point though... they do PM them first and tell them to cut the crap.
    I'm living testiment to that they dont always.
    But I'm not getting into it, it becomes a he said she said thing.
    But I can tell you I have not been PM'd by a Mod in the past 2 years, on their own intiiative.
    They have always only responded to my emails. Thats not pro-active in any sense.


    Edit: I have been PM'd by 2 mods, I stand corrected.
    Last edited by mynd; 02-13-2012 at 22:04.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I'm living testiment to that they dont always.
    But I'm not getting into it, it becomes a he said she said thing.
    But I can tell you I have not been PM'd by a Mod in the past 2 years, on their own intiiative.
    They have always only responded to my emails. Thats not pro-active in any sense.
    There will always be flaws within a staff. From experience, sometimes I was in a rush when dealing with a report, and decided to leave the PM until an hour or two later. That, of course, doesn't always work out. New reports and issues come in, and I completely forgot. Thankfully, most of the current staff seems to be above those silly mistakes that I made, but it's still something that happens from time-to-time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I'm living testiment to that they dont always.
    But I'm not getting into it, it becomes a he said she said thing.
    But I can tell you I have not been PM'd by a Mod in the past 2 years, on their own intiiative.
    They have always only responded to my emails. Thats not pro-active in any sense.
    I'll rephrase it then lol. They are supposed to PM you...

    PM warning
    official warning
    infraction

    etc.

    That's how the system is supposed to work. I'm a very proactive person when it comes to moderating, and contact and communication is key. Anyone that I ever dealt with when I was a staff member can tell you that. Even now, I contact the staff via PM on issues, etc., and other members as well. Offering advice, discussing issues, etc.




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