The bannings need to STOP

[Two4DaMoney]

The warning is not always though pm's. They are sometimes written in red in a thread. Post are removed, ect.

[Cuguy]

The warning is not always though pm's. They are sometimes written in red in a thread. Post are removed, ect.

Usually, that is all that is required,honestly, to get people back in line LOL

[Agriel]

I'm living testiment to that they dont always.
But I'm not getting into it, it becomes a he said she said thing.
But I can tell you I have not been PM'd by a Mod in the past 2 years, on their own intiiative.
They have always only responded to my emails. Thats not pro-active in any sense.

That is not true I have PM'ed you in the past at least once, I dont delete my PM's ever so I have them all on record so I will post them if I need to. But what you are saying is not true in the least.

Fuck it here we go, I dont like people making false statements

Just a reminder, that no new sales threads are allowed to be posted in the 360 section, you need to post it in the sales thread that is already there.
FYI, I merged your thread with it.

Oh crap, I clean forgot about that!

Thanks

[mynd]

That is not true I have PM'ed you in the past at least once, I dont delete my PM's ever so I have them all on record so I will post them if I need to. But what you are saying is not true in the least.

Fuck it here we go, I dont like people making false statements

You did indeed, I stand corrected, I apologise to you Agriel.

Just a reminder, you are not allowed to talk about anything besides 360 numbers in the the "360 sales" thread. No more talk of Sony or the ps3 please.

I didnt get an infraciton or banned for any of that, however.

I also got one from Ixion :

The post you responded to was also deleted for its baseless claims, but your response could have easily caused issues. Another trolling offense will result in an official public warning.

-Ixion

Unsure if I ever got a public warning for that one, but again thats not what I got banned for.

Also both of these happened months before.
But you are right, I should not have said that.

[Agriel]

You did indeed, I stand corrected, I apologise to you Agriel.


I didnt get an infraciton or banned for any of that, however.

No but that was a warning and it was listed as that, and I am read through and know I have done so on at least one other occasion. I dont like that you are villiafing the staff and making it look like you had no for warned knowledge of things, the last infraction you got was a direct result of a PM warning that I sent you, I can go pull out all the dirty details if you like and we can make everything all public like, it doesnt bother me I have zero to hide. I know for a god damn fact that I have treated everyone on these forums with the up most respect and have always tried to give people chances.
Fact of the matter is I am being nice right now, if I wanted to be a dick about a lot of stuff, I know of a number of your posts I could go in and give you and infraction and ban for, because looking at our records I know for a fact you have been warned about them. But to be honest I am not that anal and I have alot of responsibilities on these forums and this site, that I just can't be ass'ed to do that. But if people push my buttons and lie about me and make false statements, you will find that I can push right the fuck back.
The long and the skinny of it all is that from my years of experiences on this staff I think single person is given a more then fair shake, I do not think we are overly harsh on people. Do we make mistakes? Yes, yes we do, because we are all people and we all make mistakes, that is why everyone has the right to ask for an explanation for every infraction given and they have the right to ask for a 2nd opinion.

[F34R]

That is not true I have PM'ed you in the past at least once, I dont delete my PM's ever so I have them all on record so I will post them if I need to. But what you are saying is not true in the least.

Fuck it here we go, I dont like people making false statements

No but that was a warning and it was listed as that, and I am read through and know I have done so on at least one other occasion. I dont like that you are villiafing the staff and making it look like you had no for warned knowledge of things, the last infraction you got was a direct result of a PM warning that I sent you, I can go pull out all the dirty details if you like and we can make everything all public like, it doesnt bother me I have zero to hide. I know for a god damn fact that I have treated everyone on these forums with the up most respect and have always tried to give people chances.
Fact of the matter is I am being nice right now, if I wanted to be a dick about a lot of stuff, I know of a number of your posts I could go in and give you and infraction and ban for, because looking at our records I know for a fact you have been warned about them. But to be honest I am not that anal and I have alot of responsibilities on these forums and this site, that I just can't be ass'ed to do that. But if people push my buttons and lie about me and make false statements, you will find that I can push right the fuck back.
The long and the skinny of it all is that from my years of experiences on this staff I think single person is given a more then fair shake, I do not think we are overly harsh on people. Do we make mistakes? Yes, yes we do, because we are all people and we all make mistakes, that is why everyone has the right to ask for an explanation for every infraction given and they have the right to ask for a 2nd opinion.

Hey now... flashback!!! I remember defending my position to a member, Snowhawk, who was "vilifying" me as a staff member, and posted basically the same thing you're doing now - and I was told that I was harassing him lol. So don't go around making it all public bro. This right here just inflamed me to hell and back for what I went through over the same exact shit. As much time and effort as I put into this site when I was on staff, before then, and what I do now, for someone to come along and do the exact same thing as an admin... yeah, I rightfully ticked off that you would post this, and then even so much as threaten to post shit public. If you want shit posted in public, I have plenty of stuff to throw out there for people to gawk at. i PROMISE you don't want what I have public.

/rant

[Agriel]

Hey now... flashback!!! I remember defending my position to a member, Snowhawk, who was "vilifying" me as a staff member, and posted basically the same thing you're doing now - and I was told that I was harassing him lol. So don't go around making it all public bro. This right here just inflamed me to hell and back for what I went through over the same exact shit. As much time and effort as I put into this site when I was on staff, before then, and what I do now, for someone to come along and do the exact same thing as an admin... yeah, I rightfully ticked off that you would post this, and then even so much as threaten to post shit public. If you want shit posted in public, I have plenty of stuff to throw out there for people to gawk at. i PROMISE you don't want what I have public.

/rant

Go for it F34R lol seriously. Dont know what you got but sure I wanna see it too, I have nothing to hide, I call you out post what you got.
I am not harassing him, and sorry if you think so, I have no clue what happened to you in the past, and honestly I dont care. This has nothing to do with you and I know I have nothing to hide, there is nothing you could make public that I fear, but if someone wants to make false statements, I will back up the staff 100%, I dont care. If people want to try and make us look to be some kind of dictators I will do everything in my power to prove that wrong. If people make statements and lies I will always call them on them no matter what, infractions and all that are public knowledge so its not like I am dragging something up that cant be dragged up by any other member on this forum.
If other members of the staff think I am out of line then I welcome any and all critics to come out of the woodwork, I am not scared to be wrong

[squirrelbo1]

People need to understand that every message board is run on a monarchy system. Some staff members will be more lenient then others with the latter judgment receiving this type of reaction. One thing I do want to know is why, Tutankhamun, manutdfan, Danny2304 and T0PGUN were banned after their 1 infraction?. Isn't that taking it a bit too far?.

wasnt just one thing. MULTIPLE warnings in the thread. both DC and 33x posted in red, and I posted saying calm down guys. and 33x says he even sent pm's asking for it to be calmed down. also the system for trolling is 10 points and thus a ban. this was introduced because of people saying we werent strict enough (well it was more saying we weren't so consistent and ffollowing the same line. so we made it a ban for trolling. done and dusted)

I'll rephrase it then lol. They are supposed to PM you...

PM warning
official warning
infraction

etc.

That's how the system is supposed to work. I'm a very proactive person when it comes to moderating, and contact and communication is key. Anyone that I ever dealt with when I was a staff member can tell you that. Even now, I contact the staff via PM on issues, etc., and other members as well. Offering advice, discussing issues, etc.

theres no official warnings for trolling now. USUALLY you will get a pm asking to stop or alter posting style slightly. but if the thread blows out of proportion before we get to that point then action has to be taken and you could be banned straight away.

[F34R]

Go for it F34R lol seriously. Dont know what you got but sure I wanna see it too, I have nothing to hide, I call you out post what you got.
I am not harassing him, and sorry if you think so, I have no clue what happened to you in the past, and honestly I dont care. This has nothing to do with you and I know I have nothing to hide, there is nothing you could make public that I fear, but if someone wants to make false statements, I will back up the staff 100%, I dont care. If people want to try and make us look to be some kind of dictators I will do everything in my power to prove that wrong. If people make statements and lies I will always call them on them no matter what, infractions and all that are public knowledge so its not like I am dragging something up that cant be dragged up by any other member on this forum.
If other members of the staff think I am out of line then I welcome any and all critics to come out of the woodwork, I am not scared to be wrong

It's not about you personally, it's about a lot of stuff that was going on behind the scenes, screenies, etc. you can call me out all you want because all that has to be done is ban my ass and remove the post lol. I'm not fucking stupid. Yeah, you're wrong on this account, sorry. You should apologize to mynd, and take that shit to the PM's where it belongs. It might not be about me per se, but it is about how you should treat people and calling them out publicly, and threatening to do shit to them, post more shit, etc., is against the rules.

wasnt just one thing. MULTIPLE warnings in the thread. both DC and 33x posted in red, and I posted saying calm down guys. and 33x says he even sent pm's asking for it to be calmed down. also the system for trolling is 10 points and thus a ban. this was introduced because of people saying we werent strict enough (well it was more saying we weren't so consistent and ffollowing the same line. so we made it a ban for trolling. done and dusted)



theres no official warnings for trolling now. USUALLY you will get a pm asking to stop or alter posting style slightly. but if the thread blows out of proportion before we get to that point then action has to be taken and you could be banned straight away.

Yeah, normally, with the exception of trolling... probably shoulda specificed that. Thanks for bringing it up.

[mynd]

the last infraction you got was a direct result of a PM warning that I sent you,

Im a bit confused.
The last PM I ever got from you was for an infraction for "insubordination" (I hadn't read your warning, but thats my fualt for not reading the whole thread porperly).

Prior to that we had a discusison regarding reporting of trolls, I'm happy for that to be out in the open. Needless to say the last thing you said to me was :

ok fair enough, but the infraction will stand. You honestly should have done in the first place, if you suspected something you should have informed a mod, not took on your self to probe his post history to find one damning post. I am sorry but I and the rest of the staff feel you were only doing that to out as a troll, we are not stupid and watch all members very closely -that is a part of our job here-. I honestly think you knew exactly what you were doing, lets not play dumb here, you are not dumb and I sure as hell am not. We are not going to any long tolerate this type behavior any longer. Members that troll or feed trolls on any level have no place on this forums, period.
While I am very sorry you feel this infraction was unjust, I will not be removing it nor will any other member of the staff. This will stand and I hope is a lesson for the future and the reason there is a report button, we don't need vigilant groups outing trolls.

And I havent done this since.

You did not send me an PM before the last infraction. Unless I am missing something.

And I am not really that upset about it and I am not trying to villafie anyone, but to me it appears mistakes happen, as of course they will , we are all only human after all, shit I just made one by suggesting nobody had PM'd me.

Im just pointing out that "whats supposed to happen" and what sometime shappens isnt always the same thing.

that is why everyone has the right to ask for an explanation for every infraction given and they have the right to ask for a 2nd opinion.

This intrgiues me, how do you do this when you are banned? I did not know we had recourse to this.

[Agriel]

It's not about you personally, it's about a lot of stuff that was going on behind the scenes, screenies, etc. you can call me out all you want because all that has to be done is ban my ass and remove the post lol. I'm not fucking stupid. Yeah, you're wrong on this account, sorry. You should apologize to mynd, and take that shit to the PM's where it belongs. It might not be about me per se, but it is about how you should treat people and calling them out publicly, and threatening to do shit to them, post more shit, etc., is against the rules.


Yeah, normally, with the exception of trolling... probably shoulda specificed that. Thanks for bringing it up.

I am not threatening I am promising him that if he wants to say we dont do stuff by the letter of the law, then I will make sure that I will where he is concerned. I don't think I am wrong for responding to him publicly because he is making public accusations about me and the other staff, so I will respond publicly. You might think I am wrong and that is fine, but well I don't. To be honest I have nothing against Mynd personally I enjoy reading most of his posts and find he is an asset to this community, but that doesnt mean I will shit laying down.

Im a bit confused.
The last PM I ever got from you was for an infraction for "insubordination" (I hadn't read your warning, but thats my fualt for not reading the whole thread porperly).

Prior to that we had a discusison regarding reporting of trolls, I'm happy for that to be out in the open. Needless to say the last thing you said to me was :


And I havent done this since.

You did not send me an PM before the last infraction. Unless I am missing something.

And I am not really that upset about it and I am not trying to villafie anyone, but to me it appears mistakes happen, as of course they will , we are all only human after all, shit I just made one by suggesting nobody had PM'd me.

Im just pointing out that "whats supposed to happen" and what sometime shappens isnt always the same thing.

This intrgiues me, how do you do this when you are banned? I did not know we had recourse to this.

If you are banned you need to wait for that to end, there isn't much that can be done about that, you can how ever email anyone of the admins or the CM and have them review the infraction given, or have the mod that gave you the infraction explain it.

[mynd]

I am not threatening I am promising him that if he wants to say we dont do stuff by the letter of the law, then I will make sure that I will where he is concerned. I don't think I am wrong for responding to him publicly because he is making public accusations about me and the other staff, so I will respond publicly. You might think I am wrong and that is fine, but well I don't. To be honest I have nothing against Mynd personally I enjoy reading most of his posts and find he is an asset to this community, but that doesnt mean I will shit laying down.

I have no problem with anythign I have ever written to anyone on here being made public.
I am but only trying to understand how you can go from a dicussion about reporting trolls, an infraction for insubordination, to another infraction regarding insulting a memeber (of which I still dont know what I did to insult him -so much so that the member actually subsquentlay changed their post to better clarify what they had actually meant).
I try my best to play the ball and not the player when discussing things, and that one came out of the blue.

[Agriel]

I have no problem with anythign I have ever written to anyone on here being made public.
I am but only trying to understand how you can go from a dicussion about reporting trolls, an infraction for insubordination, to another infraction regarding insulting a memeber (of which I still dont know what I did to insult him -so much so that the member actually subsquentlay changed their post to better clarify what they had actually meant).

I tell you what man, I will do a full investigation of this whole matter and will re-review all of it and explain it to you in PM's or here, what ever you want. I cant do that right this min but I will look into it and make sure you understand, and if a mistake was made I will correct it. Deal?

[F34R]

I am not threatening I am promising him that if he wants to say we dont do stuff by the letter of the law, then I will make sure that I will where he is concerned. I don't think I am wrong for responding to him publicly because he is making public accusations about me and the other staff, so I will respond publicly. You might think I am wrong and that is fine, but well I don't. To be honest I have nothing against Mynd personally I enjoy reading most of his posts and find he is an asset to this community, but that doesnt mean I will shit laying down.


If you are banned you need to wait for that to end, there isn't much that can be done about that, you can how ever email anyone of the admins or the CM and have them review the infraction given, or have the mod that gave you the infraction explain it.

Well:

Fact of the matter is I am being nice right now, if I wanted to be a dick about a lot of stuff, I know of a number of your posts I could go in and give you and infraction and ban for, because looking at our records I know for a fact you have been warned about them. But to be honest I am not that anal and I have alot of responsibilities on these forums and this site, that I just can't be ass'ed to do that. But if people push my buttons and lie about me and make false statements, you will find that I can push right the fuck back.

Hey, you're the name in red though... do/say whatever you want I guess. You don't have to respond, because I'm out of this bs conversation.

[SchaffinOSX]

If you are banned you need to wait for that to end, there isn't much that can be done about that, you can how ever email anyone of the admins or the CM and have them review the infraction given, or have the mod that gave you the infraction explain it.

This is actually an issue that can be rectified rather easily, with some small adjustments. You probably already know this (granted you're the guy in red), but all that would have to be done would be a small user group edit. When a user is banned, they have their ability to view all forums revoked. What if we simply edited it so that the only forum they could view, and post in, was the Infractions and Bans forum? This would give the user an opportunity to dispute his infraction without having to go through some of the hassle of e-mailing.

If there is some specific reason as to why we don't do that here, then I am simply unaware, and digress.

[F34R]

This is actually an issue that can be rectified rather easily, with some small adjustments. You probably already know this (granted you're the guy in red), but all that would have to be done would be a small user group edit. When a user is banned, they have their ability to view all forums revoked. What if we simply edited it so that the only forum they could view, and post in, was the Infractions and Bans forum? This would give the user an opportunity to dispute his infraction without having to go through some of the hassle of e-mailing.

If there is some specific reason as to why we don't do that here, then I am simply unaware, and digress.

I would imagine the issue with that would be the visibility of the disputes. While some get over turned, or not, etc. A single forum, with a "temp banned" user group, hidden from all users except banned members would be better, but you'd still have the same problem with other banned members being able to access others threads. That could probably be taken care of though with some minor tweaks. After the ban discussed, the user either gets put back into the member pool with the ban over turned, or gets promoted to the officially banned member group.

[Ixion]

This is actually an issue that can be rectified rather easily, with some small adjustments. You probably already know this (granted you're the guy in red), but all that would have to be done would be a small user group edit. When a user is banned, they have their ability to view all forums revoked. What if we simply edited it so that the only forum they could view, and post in, was the Infractions and Bans forum? This would give the user an opportunity to dispute his infraction without having to go through some of the hassle of e-mailing.

If there is some specific reason as to why we don't do that here, then I am simply unaware, and digress.

I don't like the idea of banned members being able to publicly post immediately after they're banned. They're most likely heated and slightly irrational at that point. If anything, I would make sure a member is completely banned from the forum for at least three days or so. They would have some time to cool down and reflect...which is exactly what bans are for! lol

[Two4DaMoney]

Unsure if I ever got a public warning for that one, but again thats not what I got banned for.

I was on topic and you said I wasn't because my view was negative(and I had a reason). I wasn't forcing my views on the subject towards others. Most didn't have a problem with my opinion either. I had a justified reason for my views on the subject.

So I was trolling(just starting crap for the hell of it), off topic(it had nothing to do with the thread, flamebaiting(only did it to get a rise out of people) according to you but you didn't report me(Im guessing here). I clearly would have received an infraction for something. dc read what was going on.

If that wasn't "Harassing another member" then I don't know what is. Insulting wasn't the reason you got the infraction. Yes, I added to my first post. I didn't change a word. I did it for people who don't read the whole thread. I explained to you my reasons for stating what I did well before I added to my first post and the private message I sent you. Don't play the "confuse" card. You started to take it personal by bringing up playstion products later in that thread. And to end our convo in that thread(I didn't respond to your last post) you basically told me not to bother posting in other threads concerning the 720.

[F34R]

I don't like the idea of banned members being able to publicly post immediately after they're banned. They're most likely heated and slightly irrational at that point. If anything, I would make sure a member is completely banned from the forum for at least three days or so. They would have some time to cool down and reflect...which is exactly what bans are for! lol

I only disagree because if it's a mistake, etc., a person shouldn't have to stew over it for several days. I think it should be addressed as soon as possible.

[Ixion]

I only disagree because if it's a mistake, etc., a person shouldn't have to stew over it for several days. I think it should be addressed as soon as possible.

I agree, but that's why we should just stick to email for now. Making it public will result in everyone just bitching about their ban regardless if there's a legitimate mistake. Email keeps it private and will weed out the generic bitching.

[F34R]

If the email is accessible, then I don't see any problems with that avenue I guess. Having a private forum would speed things up I think, but either way works I guess.

[mynd]

I tell you what man, I will do a full investigation of this whole matter and will re-review all of it and explain it to you in PM's or here, what ever you want. I cant do that right this min but I will look into it and make sure you understand, and if a mistake was made I will correct it. Deal?

Although I appreciate the offer Agriel, I think your time is probably best served else where on the forums, we both have probably spent more time on this than its worth, and I really dont care to much about the history of my bannings/infraction's, it honeslty hurts more that you cant particpate in conversations than anything, although I do admit being told you insulted a member is not something I like on my record books. I do try and keep my standards a bit higher than that. If not all that high

These forums have some exciting times ahead in the next 18 months with that "next gen" looming, I can see it only getting busier in here.
Viva le gamer!

[J3ff3]

it isn't that hard though is it?

most of the complaints i've seen about bans have been unjustified when you look at the users behaviour in general, although i do agree that if two members want to go hammer and tongs at each other, or are doing so in good humour, then an automated system is not ideal.

[Chille]

Dont worry mankind whille im still around the mods and admins will never rule this forum with fear, and il always be a round due to my fail safes.

Anti-Sopa Pro-Zodd