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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Those that weren't going to buy it, can still play it. Those that are going to buy it, would do so. There's absolutely no business sense in including DRM for these games. NONE. Legitimate customers have been dissuaded against buying a product because of the DRM. Often times, legitimate customers have taken to the cracked exe files to use with games THEY BOUGHT so that they can at least play the game on the same level as people that didn't buy the product. It's $#@!ing stupid to include DRM.
    And sometimes, companies do too. Just like Rockstar and Max Payne 2
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    They don't just speak; they sing...
    http://i.joystiq.com/2008/11/13/worl...0-piracy-rate/
    That link doesn't "prove" anything. Where's the link that would somehow suggest that the piracy rate (let's not even get into the fact that they've GUESSED at the piracy rate lol) would be lower? That's what I thought. While you might be right, it's singing alright, too bad the song sounds like $#@!.

    Your link actually PROVES my point. The link goes on to say that sales are decent, meaning the people that want to buy the product, WILL buy the product.




  3. #53
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    What are you going on about now, F34R?.. What part of 90% do you not understand? And what indication gave you the impression that their sales were good? And that the 90% of the pirated copies did not have an advert effect on the game's sales or any PC game for that matter? This is looking a little ridiculous in all honesty.
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  4. #54
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    First, I never said that 90% piracy rate didn't affect the game. This is how all your debates go. Once you've been shut down, you move onto something completely different. Even if I concede that there WAS in fact a 90% piracy rate (which was a number pulled out of this guys ass to begin with), what does that have to do with DRM vs NO DRM?

    What leads me to believe sales are ok?

    Carmel informs us that he's seen torrent sites with "500 seeders and 300 leechers" and has received emails from people who initially stole the game but ended up buying the full product; unsurprisingly, they make up a "very small percentage." He concludes, "We're doing ok, though. We're getting good sales through WiiWare, Steam, and our website. Not going bankrupt just yet!"
    Can't wait for your next tangent...




  5. #55
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    To be fair, light DRM (key-code) can prevent unsavvy gamers from, say, sharing a copy with their friend. One could argue that those may have prevented a lost sale on the developers part. Strict forms of DRM are bull$#@! and completely ineffective though- if not entirely harmful for both the consumers and the developers.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    That's backwards thinking.
    Actually, it is forward thinking. Starting at the BASE of the problem....we have thieves. People that steal. We need to address THEM first and foremost.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    That's just incorrect.
    Actually it is not incorrect. It is correct. The problem is people steal stuff that is not theirs. That is where it begins and where it should end. The solution needs to start there. There would NOT be DRM if people did not steal. It's the dishonest people that ruin the gaming experience for many, NOT the DRM. The DRM is a result of theft.

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  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Actually, it is forward thinking. Starting at the BASE of the problem....we have thieves. People that steal. We need to address THEM first and foremost.



    Actually it is not incorrect. It is correct. The problem is people steal stuff that is not theirs. That is where it begins and where it should end. The solution needs to start there. There would NOT be DRM if people did not steal. It's the dishonest people that ruin the gaming experience for many, NOT the DRM. The DRM is a result of theft.
    Well, you can't keep people from downloading $#@! they didn't pay for. You just can't. DRM isn't going to change that. I think these types of broken DRM were forthcoming regardless of piracy or not. Especially since it's widely known that even these types of DRM we have today doesn't curb piracy in the least.




  9. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Actually, it is forward thinking. Starting at the BASE of the problem....we have thieves. People that steal. We need to address THEM first and foremost.
    It's not stealing, and DRM doesn't address the issue. That's why it's backwards thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    There would NOT be DRM if people did not steal. It's the dishonest people that ruin the gaming experience for many, NOT the DRM. The DRM is a result of theft.
    There would not be DRM if developers accepted reality- it doesn't work. It can actually backfire if they piss of or antagonize the consumer base. Its not the dishonest people who incorporate DRM, it's the developers/businessmen. DRM is a result of over-sightful arrogance. Critical thinking, please.
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  10. #59
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    Sorry Rapture, we should NOT have to accept reality (thieves). We need to address reality (thieves). That is fine if you want to bury your head and avoid the subject, but it IS stealing when you take a game without paying for it.

    IT IS STEALING, IT IS ILLEGAL, and THIEVES ruin it for all of us I am afraid. Those are the facts.

    So lets look at forward thinking and nip the problem where it begins....thieves.

    Well, you can't keep people from downloading $#@! they didn't pay for.
    That doesn't mean developers have to take it up the ass either. The problem here is theft, first and foremost. Eliminate theft, and our lives would be much easier.

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  12. #60
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    DRM like Steam is fine.
    DRM like UbiPlay is not $#@!ing fine.

    I'm all for DRM as i buy all my games (No, I don't even download them to 'demo' the game like some) and i'm happy to support the developers/publishers in getting the money that they deserve. It's only with the constant online DRM that Ubisoft has decided to use that i have a problem with. I do believe that if people didn't feel self entitlement that they deserve to play a game before/without buying it DRM wouldn't be half as bad as it is now.

  13. #61
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    As for DRM, in it's current form for many products, it sucks. DRM needs to evolve into something much more user friendly if they intend to keep using it to prevent piracy.

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    In all honesty i don't think DRM is that much of a problem. Steam is a perfect example of how DRM should be, it's so good half the people who use it don't even realise that it itself is DRM. Whether we want to admit it or not but some form of DRM is needed. I dislike it as much as the next guy but i know the PC is rampant with pirates and they need to do something to deter it and i'm happy for them to try it with DRM as long as it means they still support the platform.

    If they can't protect their investment they wont even bother to release it on the platform.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    Watch videos, read reviews. I buy games all the time i'm not sure i'll like.

    Pirating because "I don't know if i'll like it" doesn't make your excuse any more valid than the next. As Goo said, if your not happy with the price, wait until it's at a price point your happy with. If your not sure if you'll like the game there are probably thousands of videos on YouTube and reviews you can read to get the point of the game and to see if you'll like it or not.
    Reviews are a poor gauge to go by when debating on whether or not to buy a game. Videos do no justice to the decision making process either. Honestly, having a "try before you buy" policy is the best route.

  17. #64
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    Yup, demos should be mandatory. That way if you are on the edge, a free demo would help you make that final decision.

  18. #65
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    If you can't work out weather or not you'd enjoy a game from reading several user reviews and after watching various videos about the game that problem lies with you. And even still, it doesn't give you the right to download it. I've bought many games without knowing if it was really for me, i make sure i read up and watch enough videos on it and i can get an idea if i'd like a game or dislike it.

    I wonder how people managed with games before they had the option to just download them illegally.

    edit: I'm being a bit of hypocrite here now though. I downloaded the first Crysis when it came out to see if i could run it. Since then i've bought it twice.
    Last edited by BBK..; 02-22-2012 at 16:20.

  19. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    If you can't work out weather or not you'd enjoy a game from reading several user reviews and after watching various videos about the game that problem lies with you. And even still, it doesn't give you the right to download it. I've bought many games without knowing if it was really for me, i make sure i read up and watch enough videos on it and i can get an idea if i'd like a game or dislike it.

    I wonder how people managed with games before they had the option to just download them illegally.
    People used to buy games based on commercials and the cover box. That is how I bought all my Atari 5200 games, my Coleco Vision games and Sega Genesis games and PS2 games. I didn't bother with reviews, read about games on the internet and of course never had demos.

    Wouldn't it be nice if we could demo EVERY product in life, free before we buy it?

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  21. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    People used to buy games based on commercials and the cover box. That is how I bought all my Atari 5200 games, my Coleco Vision games and Sega Genesis games and PS2 games. I didn't bother with reviews, read about games on the internet and of course never had demos.

    Wouldn't it be nice if we could demo EVERY product in life, free before we buy it?
    Yet now when we have all these information mediums to aid us, people still think they are entitled to a demo. It's madness I tell you, Madness.

  22. #68
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    regardless of what the cause is, drm of today is not the solution...




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  24. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Sorry Rapture, we should NOT have to accept reality (thieves). We need to address reality (thieves). That is fine if you want to bury your head and avoid the subject, but it IS stealing when you take a game without paying for it.
    Failing to accept the world for what it is- new technology replacing old business models and changing the social paradigm- should not be a burden of the consumer. These are corporations that refuse to adapt and instead choose to mislead people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    IT IS STEALING, IT IS ILLEGAL, and THIEVES ruin it for all of us I am afraid. Those are the facts.
    Wrong, you've taken nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    So lets look at forward thinking and nip the problem where it begins....thieves.
    The developers chose to add DRM, not the pirates. You need to wake up.
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  25. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    First, I never said that 90% piracy rate didn't affect the game. This is how all your debates go. Once you've been shut down, you move onto something completely different. Even if I concede that there WAS in fact a 90% piracy rate (which was a number pulled out of this guys ass to begin with), what does that have to do with DRM vs NO DRM?

    What leads me to believe sales are ok?



    Can't wait for your next tangent...
    I'm sorry, but do you think you can define "good sales" for me? Them saying they had good sales doesn't mean they had good sales. Would you like me to tell you why or do you think you can muster it in you to figure it out without my assistance?

    Also, quite acting like I'm ducking and weaving you. It's nonsense.

    And I did not mean to thumbs-,up Rapture.
    Last edited by Inzane2050; 02-22-2012 at 19:34.
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  26. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzane2050 View Post
    I'm sorry, but do you think you can define "good sales" for me? Them saying they had good sales doesn't mean they had good sales. Would you like me to tell you why or do you think you can muster it in you to figure it out without my assistance?

    Also, quite acting like I'm ducking and weaving you. It's nonsense.

    And I did not mean to thumbs-,up Rapture.
    Well, it's their words, not mine. If they say that sales are ok, or good, however they put it, who am I to dispute that? Maybe you should ask the people where the words came from, what they define as good sales since they are the ones who said it.

    If you didn't mean to thumbs up or thumbs down someone, you can click on that respective button again and it takes it back.

    As far as ducking and weaving, lol, yeah, that's your MO. You've already changed the subject after your argument on DRM was quashed. Anyways... next topic?




  27. #72
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    Didn't they recoup their development/marketing costs?

    Honestly, that sounds like good sales to me.
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  28. #73
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    BlkS, you talkin' bout Remedy? If so, yes. The broke past dev/pub costs, etc., within 48 hours.




  29. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Failing to accept the world for what it is- new technology replacing old business models and changing the social paradigm- should not be a burden of the consumer. These are corporations that refuse to adapt and instead choose to mislead people.
    These are businesses protecting their intellectual rights and profit/revenue streams. They are not making a product just so that they can give it away or have people steal it. They are building a product that is OPTIONAL to the consumer. Nobody is forcing the consumer to buy it. Whether it is tangible or not, it's a product, it had a cost to produce, and was intended to be sold, not given away freely.

    Wrong, you've taken nothing.
    Actually, you have. But we will have to agree to disagree.

    The developers chose to add DRM, not the pirates. You need to wake up.
    Pirates chose to not pay for something they should have paid for if they wanted it, just like everyone else. I don't need to wake up.

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    Pirates take regardless of DRM. smfh DRM isn't protecting anything. It's hurting them, and consumers a lot more than helping that's for damned sure.




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