Are YOU disappointed with Japanese Developers?

[Funeralfog]

Out of this list from this gen I have bolded the Capcom games I enjoy:


Asura's Wrath
Bionic Commando
Dark Void
Dead Rising
Dead Rising 2
Dead Rising 2: Off the Record
Devil May Cry HD Collection
Devil May Cry 4
DmC (forthcoming)
Dragon's Dogma (forthcoming)
Lost Planet: Extreme Condition
Lost Planet: Colonies
Lost Planet 2
Marvel vs. Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds
MotoGP 08
MotoGP 09/10
MotoGP 10/11
Resident Evil 5
Resident Evil 6 (forthcoming)
Resident Evil 5: Gold Edition
Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City (forthcoming)
Steel Battalion: Heavy Armor (forthcoming)
Street Fighter IV
Street Fighter X Tekken (forthcoming)
Super Street Fighter IV
Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3

Looking forward to RE6 as well as Steel Battalion.

forgot about all those were capcom lol. afraid i only liked devil may cry....sort of

[Fon]

I'm the same way. I liked Japanese developed games back in the PS2 days but I dont care for them anymore. I'm into the western developed games now. Japanese developed games can fall off the face of the earth for all I care.

They still have quality developers over there such as Gust and the Tales studio. Both of them still make quality Japanese games. The biggest reason why they're not doing so good is because of their attempts to please a market they're not experienced in.

[mickice]

I dont think they have, go buy yourself a psp or a ds and youll see the games from the japanese devs still dominate over most western developed games.

[Zswordsman]

yeah, i mean Western Games are amazing, but Japanese games should really amp it up, the more awesome games the better for everyone. Also i find the lack of an HD console Kingdoms Hearts disturbing.

[Funeralfog]

for some reason they always seemed to care too much about what people think. hell they named Nissan something else in case it failed. go back to making awesome shit like Mystical Ninja

[TDbank24]

Not really. I loved Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy XIII-2 is awesome as well. So i got what i wanted out of Japanese developers this generation lol.

The PS2 days were definitely a better time for them though. It just seems like the Japanese devs have had a hard time evolving to take advantage of the current generation. Western developers have certainly nailed this generation.

[Joe Zombie]

Yes I am. Lack of good/localized JRPGs, and a lot of great survival horror came from Japanese developers last gen. I agree with the notion that they're catering to the West. If they project a game may not sell well here, it probably won't be localized. That's a shame because a lot of great cult/niche titles have also come from Japanese developers.

[Dave-The-Rave]

Mostly my disappointment comes from the lack of JRPGs on consoles. They aren't nearly as prevalent as they were last gen. There's been no Grandia this gen (Grandia 3 had one of the best battle systems I've ever played in a JRPG), no hint of a Suikoden console title (downloaded the first Suikoden off of PSN, lamented that it doesn't look like Konami will put up the second, and have III, IV, and V to start), there's no hope for a Shadow Hearts sequel from last gen, Square Enix is a shell of its former self, and the list goes on and on.

Really, the only way you can be satisfied with JRPG developers is if you buy handhelds, which is what I have just capitulated in doing, having purchased a 3DS and PS Vita. As it stands, I'd love for some of these JRPG devs to rediscover consoles though.

I wish they would release Grandia 3 on the PS3, I really wanted to play that one last gen but the damn game only came out in America !!

[Azu]

Not really. Just a quick browse through my collection shows games like Bayonetta, Valkyria Chronicles, Ys Seven, Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep, Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky, Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Siren: New Translation, Vanquish, Catherine, Yakuza 3 & 4, Ace Combat: Assault Horizon, Virtua Fighter 5, Metal Gear Solid 4, Gran Turismo 5, Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker, BlazBlue, Devil May Cry 4, Dissidia 012, Lost Planet, Shadows of the Damned, Final Fantasy XIII-2, DJ Max Portable series, White Knight Chronicles II etc. etc., which range from decent to Best Games of the Genre™.

I really don't think Japanese developers have gotten worse. What has happened is that Western devs have caught up to them in many genres which Japanese dominated in the past WHILE Japanese games themselves have become much more niche, so even the best ones like Bayonetta & Vanquish don't quite create the kind of phenomena they deserve, all while uninspired western games like Mass Effect, Halo & Gears of War reign supreme, even though Vanquish is ten times the shooter those games are.

And of course there's been that shift to handhelds, which Japanese love but western gamers hate for irrational reasons.

[War]

Japanese are terrible at software. They are currently not up to date on tech and etc. Some say there are not enough talents there. Some say people at the top are not letting the new talents in. Some say their technical education in the field is not up to par.

What ever their reason is, their Computer Sc, Computer Engineers, producers and etc are far lower quality. Gran Turismo, while its a decent game, shouldnt have looked like that if it costed Sony like 40 millions. Western Developers could have done better.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Yes I am disappointed.

I am disappointed that Japanese developers feel that they have to mimick western developers to attain success.

I am disappointed that Japanese developers seem to have abandoned the JRPG genre.

I am disappointed that Japanese developers are stuck in the 16 bit era

I am disappointed that Japanese developers have difficulty advancing their skills and talent pool.

I am disappointed that the Japanese companies care little about artistic integrity and imagination and just want to make a quick buck (that's an American trait, damnit!)

I love the Japanese sense of style and imagination. I like the way they tell their stories sometimes. I like their idea of the battle of good vs evil. What the Japanese need to do is to keep up with the technology. They need to stop making games that look like 16-bit rejects. I don't mind turn-based at all...it's just a stylistic choice after all...but I do want games that take advantage of the technology at hand. They don't have to be the prettiest, but I at least want game that look like the developer gives a crap.

I also want games that advance the genre. Since I'm into JRPG's, I want games that do something that hasn't been done before, or at the very least, do it in a unique and/or interesting manner. The same stuff over and over again is getting tired. I'm not talking about the stories...I'm talking gameplay. For example, Ar Tonelico 2 had a very interesting combat system. Ar Tonelico 3 took several steps back, dumbing down the combat system considerably. THAT is what I'm talking about mostly.

I just wish the Japanese would stop trying to cater to the west, scour the land for some new talent and get to work doing what they do best.

[Fon]

Not really. Just a quick browse through my collection shows games like Bayonetta, Valkyria Chronicles, Ys Seven, Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep, Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky, Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Siren: New Translation, Vanquish, Catherine, Yakuza 3 & 4, Ace Combat: Assault Horizon, Virtua Fighter 5, Metal Gear Solid 4, Gran Turismo 5, Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker, BlazBlue, Devil May Cry 4, Dissidia 012, Lost Planet, Shadows of the Damned, Final Fantasy XIII-2, DJ Max Portable series, White Knight Chronicles II etc. etc., which range from decent to Best Games of the Genre™.

Why did you trademark "Genre"?.

[bobtheduck]

Yes I am disappointed.

I am disappointed that Japanese developers feel that they have to mimick western developers to attain success.

I am disappointed that Japanese developers seem to have abandoned the JRPG genre.

I am disappointed that Japanese developers are stuck in the 16 bit era

I am disappointed that Japanese developers have difficulty advancing their skills and talent pool.

I am disappointed that the Japanese companies care little about artistic integrity and imagination and just want to make a quick buck (that's an American trait, damnit!)

I love the Japanese sense of style and imagination. I like the way they tell their stories sometimes. I like their idea of the battle of good vs evil. What the Japanese need to do is to keep up with the technology. They need to stop making games that look like 16-bit rejects. I don't mind turn-based at all...it's just a stylistic choice after all...but I do want games that take advantage of the technology at hand. They don't have to be the prettiest, but I at least want game that look like the developer gives a crap.

I also want games that advance the genre. Since I'm into JRPG's, I want games that do something that hasn't been done before, or at the very least, do it in a unique and/or interesting manner. The same stuff over and over again is getting tired. I'm not talking about the stories...I'm talking gameplay. For example, Ar Tonelico 2 had a very interesting combat system. Ar Tonelico 3 took several steps back, dumbing down the combat system considerably. THAT is what I'm talking about mostly.

I just wish the Japanese would stop trying to cater to the west, scour the land for some new talent and get to work doing what they do best.

This is it. Everything you said is exactly what's wrong with Japanese development. It's either trying to be western development, or they just don't move on from the previous generations. They don't develop their talents more, they don't try new things, they just try things that non-Japanese devs have tried. That's not ALL bad, but if they don't do enough that's new and purely Japanese, no one will care about them anymore.

Why did you trademark "Genre"?.

Actually, he trademarked the whole phrase "Best Games of the Genre" not just genre. And as for why...

[The Black Wolf]

Japanese are terrible at software. They are currently not up to date on tech and etc. Some say there are not enough talents there. Some say people at the top are not letting the new talents in. Some say their technical education in the field is not up to par.

What ever their reason is, their Computer Sc, Computer Engineers, producers and etc are far lower quality. Gran Turismo, while its a decent game, shouldnt have looked like that if it costed Sony like 40 millions. Western Developers could have done better.

That's kind of hard to believe, with Japan being one of the countries that are the most up to date in technology. Or at least it seems Japan is very up to date with technology.

[Gaddes]

I didn't choose either choice. I do however have some problem with the Japanese side of gaming these days.

They were doing fine making the games they wanted to do. Now these days they're trying to "appeal" to the western audience which isn't doing them much good.

This. This is probably the biggest problem with the Japanese side of things these days. They have tried (and failed) numerous times to appeal too what they believe to be what Westerners want and why we end up with crap like Mind Jack.

I am disappointed that Japanese developers seem to have abandoned the JRPG genre.

I have to agree with this as well. The lack of HD JRPG's (on the consoles at least) is rather disappointing. I know we have guys like NIS and Gust, but I really wish Sony of Japan would get off their ass and make Wild Arms 6, Dragoon and Legaia.

Not really. Just a quick browse through my collection shows games like Bayonetta, Valkyria Chronicles, Ys Seven, Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep, Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky, Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Siren: New Translation, Vanquish, Catherine, Yakuza 3 & 4, Ace Combat: Assault Horizon, Virtua Fighter 5, Metal Gear Solid 4, Gran Turismo 5, Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker, BlazBlue, Devil May Cry 4, Dissidia 012, Lost Planet, Shadows of the Damned, Final Fantasy XIII-2, DJ Max Portable series, White Knight Chronicles II etc. etc., which range from decent to Best Games of the Genre™.

I really don't think Japanese developers have gotten worse. What has happened is that Western devs have caught up to them in many genres which Japanese dominated in the past WHILE Japanese games themselves have become much more niche, so even the best ones like Bayonetta & Vanquish don't quite create the kind of phenomena they deserve, all while uninspired western games like Mass Effect, Halo & Gears of War reign supreme, even though Vanquish is ten times the shooter those games are.

And of course there's been that shift to handhelds, which Japanese love but western gamers hate for irrational reasons.

Pretty much this.

[Sufi]

Japanese are terrible at software. They are currently not up to date on tech and etc. Some say there are not enough talents there. Some say people at the top are not letting the new talents in. Some say their technical education in the field is not up to par.

What ever their reason is, their Computer Sc, Computer Engineers, producers and etc are far lower quality. Gran Turismo, while its a decent game, shouldnt have looked like that if it costed Sony like 40 millions. Western Developers could have done better.

That's not true. While this generation has seen a lot of disappointments by Japanese devs, the core competency of Japan as a whole is that they continually improve themselves, down to perfection. Which is why they're unbeatable in everything they do.

And of course there's been that shift to handhelds, which Japanese love but western gamers hate for irrational reasons.

What's so irrational about it?

[Acid Snake]

I've been playing a lot more Wrpgs and other genres lately. You have my answer.

[Sufi]

It's really a matter of time before Japanese devs kick back...without them, we'd be missing a huge gaming culture that brought games to where it is.

[War]

That's not true. While this generation has seen a lot of disappointments by Japanese devs, the core competency of Japan as a whole is that they continually improve themselves, down to perfection. Which is why they're unbeatable in everything they do.

There are different business models and management structures and etc. There is a whole field on this. Some say Japanese structures are too rigid. Does not allow much creativity or adaptability. Also, there may be lack of educational focus on software engineering and lack of interest as public.As for saying, they are "unbeatable in everything they do", you are very wrong. Even though you may not realize it, US beat them in alot of stuff including WWII. lol

That's kind of hard to believe, with Japan being one of the countries that are the most up to date in technology. Or at least it seems Japan is very up to date with technology.

not on the software side.... Japan is quite behind in terms of software developing. They are quite far ahead in some areas. Especially the public sectors, but those are mostly hardwares. Simply question you can ask is where is Japan's Google, Apple, MS or etc? A lot of new start up software companies are mostly from here too. not there. Same thing goes for South Korea and China.

Technology isn't just one big thing. There are different branches and groups. US is quite advanced in some fields.

[Sufi]

There are different business models and management structures and etc. There is a whole field on this. Some say Japanese structures are too rigid. Does not allow much creativity or adaptability. Also, there may be lack of educational focus on software engineering and lack of interest as public.As for saying, they are "unbeatable in everything they do", you are very wrong. Even though you may not realize it, US beat them in alot of stuff including WWII. lol

What did US beat Japan in? As for WWII, I'm not surprised by your comment seeing your user name.

Japan makes some of the best products in the world, that proves that they have the best engineers out there.

And yes, I know the "whole field" of business models and management structures, I'm a Business graduate. The entire world borrows Japanese ideas of business management and business models. I'd suggest reading up on it.



not on the software side.... Japan is quite behind in terms of software developing. They are quite far ahead in some areas. Especially the public sectors, but those are mostly hardwares. Simply question you can ask is where is Japan's Google, Apple, MS or etc? A lot of new start up software companies are mostly from here too. not there. Same thing goes for South Korea and China.

Technology isn't just one big thing. There are different branches and groups. US is quite advanced in some fields.[/QUOTE]

[LadyDuoMaxwell]

I won't say I am disappointed at Japanese developers, but they could use some improvement for some of their games.

[War]

What did US beat Japan in? As for WWII, I'm not surprised by your comment seeing your user name.

Japan makes some of the best products in the world, that proves that they have the best engineers out there.

And yes, I know the "whole field" of business models and management structures, I'm a Business graduate. The entire world borrows Japanese ideas of business management and business models. I'd suggest reading up on it.

Not sure what you are getting so worked up about. I am not the one talking about Japanese structure of rigidity and such. Those are commonly mentioned. As for your argument, it really isnt an argument. you cant just say "I AM BUSINESS GRADUATE. U GO READ UP ON IT". That only makes your point of view weaker.

And sure world does borrow SOME ideas from Japan for management and etc, but ONLY SOME. Yes, we borrow stuff like Kanban management structure or Lean Manufacturing from Japan. However, one of the most popular business management strategy like Six Sigma is actually invented by US company AND IS USED BY MANY Japanese companies.

This is getting off topic as is. Just tell me where is Japan's Google, Apple, MS, Oracle and etc?

[Sufi]

Not sure what you are getting so worked up about. I am not the one talking about Japanese structure of rigidity and such. Those are commonly mentioned. As for your argument, it really isnt an argument. you cant just say "I AM BUSINESS GRADUATE. U GO READ UP ON IT". That only makes your point of view weaker.

And sure world does borrow SOME ideas from Japan for management and etc, but ONLY SOME. Yes, we borrow stuff like Kanban management structure or Lean Manufacturing from Japan. However, one of the most popular business management strategy like Six Sigma is actually invented by US company AND IS USED BY MANY Japanese companies.

It was improved by the US, it was invented by a German Mathematician.

It's not just some, there are a lot of concepts that we had to learn. Japan is known to be much more efficient at business processes than the US.

The whole idea of being personable and collective is a new concept in US and slowly they're learning this from the far east.

This is getting off topic as is. Just tell me where is Japan's Google, Apple, MS, Oracle and etc?

That's funny because most of the IT people are from the East (that includes southeast Asia to the far east Asia).

Google, Apple, Windows, all of this crap is just business. It doesn't mean that one set of engineers and programmers are better than the rest.

[Soldier 95B]

This is an uber interesting debate. But I am with Sufi o n this. He nailed it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Azu]

What's so irrational about it?

Great games are great games, no matter what platform they are for, and handhelds happen to have shittons of great games, which makes it incredibly stupid to ignore such platforms if you're at all interested in diverse quality gaming (even less if you whine about console games being nothing but uninspired FPSs nowadays, which in itself is a stupid claim). I understand if you don't have the finances to support owning multiple gaming devices, but handhelds unarguably have awesome game line-ups and to just brush them off just because they are on handhelds IS irrational.

Especially with PSP, 3DS & Vita, handheld games can give you experiences that aren't much (or at all) inferior to console games nowadays. A game like Resident Evil Revelations is actually much better than Resident Evil 5 or (I'm guessing) Operation Raccoon City, and Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep is the best Kingdom Hearts game by far. They of course also offer plenty of experiences not available (Ace Attorneys, DJ Max Portables, Ys OiF & Seven, Trails in the Sky and a million others) and perhaps not even possible on home consoles (Meteos, Kirby: Canvas Curse, Ouendan, The World Ends With You).

Handhelds at the very least supplement home consoles (by offering different kinds of experiences when compared to home console games, some of which might not even be possible on home consoles as they are) and can be just as good as console gaming (i.e. like pointed above, certain handheld iterations being better than console iterations).