Man kills 17 year old Trayvon Martin, claims self defense

[plustheharm]

I know he can be cleaned up and i would be surprised if his injuries weren't addressed promptly on the spot. The point i was trying to make was it just smells fishy to me. For anybody who has had a head wound or have seen them, they'll know they bleed like a mofo. There would be clear evidence. To me, bashing a head on the ground multiple times is a very violent act, to me there would be more outwardly signs that something was going on. It just takes me back that we don't know what the fuck happend at all. i don't think we will know unless Zimmerman confesses to something, but i don't imagine he will or even if he needs to.

I've pretty much had enough of the media coverage. Some people are saying all white people are racist etc. etc. some people are saying trayvon was a thug, some people are pushing for gun control, but i don't think it should have come to this level of scrutiny. I feel bad for the family. Even if trayvon was some hooligan, his death has been made a spectacle, a three-ringed circus of public opinion. that i disagree with. I know people have a right to know what happend, but report the facts, don't turn it into some agenda.

Hey I hear ya and I think we are both having similar thoughts. I guess I was sort of trying to look at the other side of the PD video.

And looking at this video, from this angle (1:13ish) I see nothing that appears as a bandage. It looks as clear as the rest of the scalp. His injuries were made to sound pretty severe, and it sort of doesn't look like that here. Hell, you can make out the hairline ... I don't see much to suggest a bandage is even there, personally. That's just what it looks like, and you can clearly make out his hairline ... so unless they matched the bandage with the color of his short hair ... and it certainly doesn't look like there is a disturbance in the surface of hair

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z16Ed...feature=relmfu

Again, his nose ... hard to tell as you have varying degrees of severity when it comes to a broken nose. But the head certainly looks fine, certainly doesn't appear to be as bad as initially suggested.

I'm not saying this dude went out looking for an altercation, a chance to kill someone and cry self defense, but he knew what he was doing. He was an aspiring LE officer, someone who took his stupid neighborhood watch group too seriously. Someone with a history that suggests violence. Not some petty teenage bullshit that more of us went through than not.

[F34R]

Yeah, he was clearly some self appointed vigilante, had even applied to become a cop, but for a reason I have yet to hear, he didn't cut it. Not sure what that could've been, maybe FEAR can speak on what kinds of things could potentially be at play.

I think that is an interesting angle, couple that with the fact that he has repeatedly called the police in the past to "report" suspect looking individuals. A neighborhood watchman does exactly that. He watches. He doesn't act. He's no supposed to. There is a reason he doesn't have a badge. Whether or not he should've been packing is one thing, and if someone is in legal possession of a gun, well, fucking A, who am I to say that specific detail is wrong? But this dude shot down a direct order, from the same people he so desperately wanted to be associated with. He says, "these people always get away," and decides he just can't hang back.

I think another reason why this is garnering so much attention is that you have to now go back and consult these laws you have in place, the laws that are supposed to defend those trying to defend themselves. We don't know if he grabbed Trayvon. We don't know if he said something crude enough to warrant a punch to the face. He knew the cops were coming, he even tells the dispatcher (after saying he'll be at the "mailboxes," to call him when they get there, to let them know where he is. He knows he is going after this kid, that he won't be at the mailbox. Kinda weird.

Show of hands; who has been charged with, or had a complaint failed against them, by a significant other claiming abuse? Right, not much came of it, both sides issued "stay the fuck away" papers. No harm, no foul, right? Well, she was clearly injured, who is to say how it happened though.

Ok, show of hands; who has been arrested, charged, with battery on a LE officer? Resisting arrest? Charges were dropped, but initial charges were still filed. But, once again, nothing comes of it. If someone is repeatedly said to have forced themselves on various women, again - repeatedly, do we start to take those accusations more seriously?

I know I have never been charged with such things. I've never had a women say I abused her. Never had a charge stating that I was believed to have assaulted an officer, or anything of the nature. There is a reason why I haven't. And why most of those posting here probably haven't. That isn't us.

There is a reason why Zimmerman's past is more damning to this current situation as opposed to Trayvon. There is a reason people are hesitant to side, honestly, someone who appears to be suffering from some sort of, I dunno, "issues."

I hear you, Great. That's why I think part of the size, magnitude of this case is what it is because what obviously could have been avoided wasn't, a man initiates an incident, and someone dies. In the name of self defense. That need should never have been there, and I think you will have discussions about amending the law, because as it stands it doesn't seem to be exactly clear enough. And people seem to be at differing views on whether or not this stand your ground law should be waived when you consider what happened. Some folks think, from what we know, that it should still stand. Others don't.

Hey I hear ya and I think we are both having similar thoughts. I guess I was sort of trying to look at the other side of the PD video.

And looking at this video, from this angle (1:13ish) I see nothing that appears as a bandage. It looks as clear as the rest of the scalp. His injuries were made to sound pretty severe, and it sort of doesn't look like that here. Hell, you can make out the hairline ... I don't see much to suggest a bandage is even there, personally. That's just what it looks like, and you can clearly make out his hairline ... so unless they matched the bandage with the color of his short hair ... and it certainly doesn't look like there is a disturbance in the surface of hair

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z16Ed...feature=relmfu

Again, his nose ... hard to tell as you have varying degrees of severity when it comes to a broken nose. But the head certainly looks fine, certainly doesn't appear to be as bad as initially suggested.

I'm not saying this dude went out looking for an altercation, a chance to kill someone and cry self defense, but he knew what he was doing. He was an aspiring LE officer, someone who took his stupid neighborhood watch group too seriously. Someone with a history that suggests violence. Not some petty teenage bullshit that more of us went through than not.

I can tell you have been influenced greatly from the media bias on this case.

[Leviticus]

I can tell you have been influenced greatly from the media bias on this case.

some can said that about you too.

i also heard the the police knew the kid full name, and address, with phone, but yet call him a john doe and held the body for three days. why?
I guess that next to find out what their reason for that was.

if people are going to claim that zirmmman was defending himself by following trayvon (cause this is where it all started) cause him look suspicion to him, however trayvon to could have being defending himself cause he felt was being followed.

what i getting at is both these men thought there were defend oneself for their own view and reasoning, but it was trayvon that lost that battle or i should say his life.

[plustheharm]

I can tell you have been influenced greatly from the media bias on this case.

Weird, but you quoted me on that one. I know it would probably take a while, but instead of quoting no one but everyone, why just quote me?

Again, my view isn't all that unreasonable. Both of us, everyone for that matter, is taking from this what we can. Only difference is we don't agree. Not that big of a deal.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2 Beta-4

[F34R]

some can said that about you too.

i also heard the the police knew the kid full name, and address, with phone, but yet call him a john doe and held the body for three days. why?
I guess that next to find out what their reason for that was.

if people are going to claim that zirmmman was defending himself by following trayvon(cause this is where it all started) cause him look suspicion to him, however trayvon to could have being defending himself cause he felt was being followed.

what i getting at is both these men thought there were defend oneself for their own view and reasoning, but it was trayvon that lost that battle or i should say his life.

Heard that did ya? From the video you just watched I imagine lol.
That video, those two guys, try to spin this thing like crazy. They aren't trying to be objective in any sense of the word. I won't even comment further on those two douches.

It is normal if a name of a party isn't known, to either put John Doe, or Unknown Name, and UNK under the relevant blocks. If two days later, the information is obtained, then an amendment will be written. When the report is printed out, the amendments will be shown, rather than the original info. Most departments will have a procedure for adding amendments to a report though, so that should be documented somewhere that the john doe information is being replaced with this new information.

[Leviticus]

lol, i know it wrong to joke but the making a Zirmmman moving call Neighbothood watch.

they pull a movie ad that called Neighborhood Watch that starting ben Ben Stiller, Vince Vaughn& Jonah Hill, where the are patrolling the neighborhood where Jonah hill does the hand gun at two teen-age kids act like he is shooting them.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1298649/

[Leviticus]

Heard that did ya? From the video you just watched I imagine lol.
That video, those two guys, try to spin this thing like crazy. They aren't trying to be objective in any sense of the word. I won't even comment further on those two douches.

It is normal if a name of a party isn't known, to either put John Doe, or Unknown Name, and UNK under the relevant blocks. If two days later, the information is obtained, then an amendment will be written. When the report is printed out, the amendments will be shown, rather than the original info. Most departments will have a procedure for adding amendments to a report though, so that should be documented somewhere that the john doe information is being replaced with this new information.

lol you assume a lot don't you, I told you to stop with that, but no saw it on tv earlier just now sharing it. sorry to bust your bubble.
next time i post info when i hear just for you so you can't come at me like this anymore, you dig.

[Yuuichi]

I have not seen that report And I wasn't saying thats what happened in this incident

And is zimmerman really 250lbs? (vs 140lbs)

I take it you have never seen old ufc fights where 120lbs guys where whooping 300lbs guys and making them tap like babies. Weight dosent mean shit.

[-Kwesnoth-]

I take it you have never seen old ufc fights where 120lbs guys where whooping 300lbs guys and making them tap like babies. Weight dosent mean shit.

Ain't that the truth.

Truthfully, I am tired as fuck hearing about this.

[Everyday]

yeah because trayvon looks like hes been training in MMA his whole life, this thread seems to be posted opinions on the subject and then F34R relaying information that the attorney will use to help zimmerman be free. I feel that zimmerman was just a Jim Lahey (Trailer Park Boys) trying to keep his neighbourhood safe so when he saw a kid he didnt recognize he confronted him, the kid like any other probably told this 250lb retard to fuck off, zimmerman then got mad had to show authority that he was infact neighbourhood watch so he had to demonstrate power, resulting in a conflict and ultimately an unfortunate death.

[DayWalker]

I take it you have never seen old ufc fights where 120lbs guys where whooping 300lbs guys and making them tap like babies. Weight dosent mean shit.

I didn't realize we were dealing with trained fighter(s) .

Weight can certainly means something in a fight between 2 average Joes.

[plustheharm]

Ain't that the truth.

Truthfully, I'm tired as heck hearing about this.

I don't think people realize how stupid it sounds to reference MMA, something others have done outside of here, like that somehow helps the argument. It doesn't. Those people TRAIN to fight. TRAIN RELENTLESSLY. I haven't heard about Trayvon's afternoon MMA classes, but apparently he was taking them.

People want to dismiss the idea of a 17 year old beating up a considerably older adult - and not older like 50, 60 - like it happens all the time. Don't think grown men are often getting beat up by teenagers ...

....then again, maybe that's why he didn't make the force? Couldn't fight someone his own age? Maybe that's why he hit that woman?

"Yeah, I bet Trayvon beat him up, ya know?"

"Right?! You know, MMA and ... uh ... stuff!"

"Yeah! MMA!"

[Yuuichi]

Lol i am sure in everyday situation then the big guy always wins.....oh wait no he dosent. I suppose you guys like to ignore the jump from behind thing to. It is possible he was beting him and pointing to weight and say not uh is just stupid. So i guess that 500 ilb fat dude can beat up everyone he meets on the street going by your guys logic.

Weight dosent play as big a factor as you guys think especially when you get hit unprepared from behind as they said happened.


Let me be clear on my stance to, he should have stayed in the dam car.

[plustheharm]

He wasn't a 500lb dude. And Trayvon wasn't training to be an MMA fighter.

I don't doubt that a 17 year old could beat up someone considerably older, I don't doubt that at all. But people want to just dismiss it like it makes all sorts of sense. It sort of doesn't.

Zimmerman's old mugshot has him looking pretty dang chubby, at least his head shot does, but the Zimmerman in the PD video (while obviously not the most revealing, not the most clear) he doesn't exactly look like some severely out of shape dude. He wanted to be a cop, he took his vigilante shit a little too seriously, so I would actually be shocked if Zimmerman didn't put in some work, somewhere.

I'm certainly not going to assume that Trayvon could have just beat him up, because, ya know, that'd be stupid. And referencing MMA would be even more so.

[Yuuichi]

He wasn't a 500lb dude. And Trayvon wasn't training to be an MMA fighter.

I don't doubt that a 17 year old could beat up someone considerably older, I don't doubt that at all. But people want to just dismiss it like it makes all sorts of sense. It sort of doesn't.

Zimmerman's old mugshot has him looking pretty dang chubby, at least his head shot does, but the Zimmerman in the PD video (while obviously not the most revealing, not the most clear) he doesn't exactly look like some severely out of shape dude. He wanted to be a cop, he took his vigilante shit a little too seriously, so I would actually be shocked if Zimmerman didn't put in some work, somewhere.

I'm certainly not going to assume that Trayvon could have just beat him up, because, ya know, that'd be stupid. And referencing MMA would be even more so.

Not as stupid as saying a 17yr old cant beat up an older guy who weighs more (what was said not counting the post i quoted)especially when he jumped him which is what you guys are ignoring. Ever been hit from behind by surprise? Hurts more when you dont see it coming.

Thats why the weight thing should be dismissed because he was jumped.

[F34R]

All the solid evidence points to this being self-defense. If any of that evidence was falsified, then that changes the entire dynamic of the scenario that we do have a clear picture about. There will undoubtedly be easy ways to rebut the story we have. Right now, these are ALL FACTS. No opinion, no speculation. FACTS.

1. Zimmerman follows Martin.
2. Zimmerman loses Martin.
3. Martin confronts Zimmerman, this is backed up by the girlfriends statement who heard Martin first ask Zimmerman why he was following him.
4. A scuffle ensues.
5. Witness observed guy in red on ground, other guy beating him up. Guy on botton calling for help.
7. Lady witness heard someone calling for help, heard a shot, came outside and saw Zimmerman standing over Martin.
6. Police report states that Zimmerman was beaten up.
7. Zimmerman receives medical treatment.
8. Zimmerman was questioned and a Detective (rank may be in question) wanted to make the charge of man-slaughter.
9. States Attorney tells him to hold back, don't have a good case due to self-defense claims.

These are ALL FACTS. Now if there are other FACTS out there that rebut any of these facts, then the self-defense claim can start to be unraveled.

There are a few things that are going to be hard to dispute, probably impossible.

1. We know Zimmerman did in fact follow Martin. Can't really disprove this.
2. Hard to disprove this. No witnesses, so this has to be treated as a fact.
3. Without an actual witness that SAW who confronted who, this will be treated as a fact, and tried to be rebutted with speculation.
4. Again, without an witness that saw it, Zimmermans claim of Martin punching him, coupled with:
5. Eye witness will be damning to the States case if they aren't able to break this one.
6. Is the police report authentic? What would back up their report of injuries? The medical services documentation when they attended to Zimmerman. They will have detailed information on what treatment he received and a bill, etc.
6a. The police SHOULD have taken pictures of Zimmerman before he was treated. SHOULD HAVE. If they didn't, then they short changed themselves here.
7. The treatment records will either support or rebut the claims from the police report about injuries Zimmerman has.
8. doesn't have any bearing other than we know Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense, but the Detective wants to go forward based on Zimmerman pursuing Martin. This is the part that a lot of people are hung on. If Zimmerman hadn't followed Martin, the events wouldn't have unfolded. Nice speculation/supposition. This MIGHT be key if they can break some of the other facts down.
9. He does the right thing in not moving too fast. One apple, one bite.

Good day.

[Yuuichi]

So is the state going to press on or not enough for a case? If not wonder if parents will go after him for pain and suffering or whatever they can.

[Grim-FunDango]

This is really sad! Meanwhile the celebrity hacker is facing up to 60 years in prison. The US legal system is so out of whack!

[Yuuichi]

This is really sad! Meanwhile the celebrity hacker is facing up to 60 years in prison. The US legal system is so out of whack!

No joke I hate our legal system.

[F34R]

This is really sad! Meanwhile the celebrity hacker is facing up to 60 years in prison. The US legal system is so out of whack!

You can thank that to corporate lobbyists.

So is the state going to press on or not enough for a case? If not wonder if parents will go after him for pain and suffering or whatever they can.

I don't know at this point. There are going to be a lot of things about that list above that they know already, that we don't know. They might have already corroborated everything, and are letting the Grand Jury decide; which is smart because they won't be responsible for not bringing charges if the Grand Jury returns a no true bill. Basically a Grand Jury is used to weed out bad cases. Either way, this case would have had to go to a Grand Jury eventually.

[Sub-stance1]

It looks like they will be going for manslaughter charges in this case. They are starting to poke holes in zimmermans story. They seem to be analyzing the video of when he arrived at the police station to see if they can tell if there were any visible blood stains on his clothing.


IRONRANGER6 Tapatalk

[F34R]

It looks like they will be going for manslaughter charges in this case. They are starting to poke holes in zimmermans story. They seem to be analyzing the video of when he arrived at the police station to see if they can tell if there were any visible blood stains on his clothing.


IRONRANGER6 Tapatalk

Where does it look like that? Links? Not seeing injuries on someone on a video you can't even IDENTIFY who the people are, yet, they are trying to disect whether you can see any cuts on him is beyond pathetic.

[DayWalker]

Lol i am sure in everyday situation then the big guy always wins.....oh wait no he dosent.

except nobody made the claim that the bigger guy always wins. YOU made the claim that weight is no factor- which is clearly wrong.

[Sufi]

All the solid evidence points to this being self-defense. If any of that evidence was falsified, then that changes the entire dynamic of the scenario that we do have a clear picture about. There will undoubtedly be easy ways to rebut the story we have. Right now, these are ALL FACTS. No opinion, no speculation. FACTS.

1. Zimmerman stalks Martin.
2. Zimmerman loses Martin.
3. Martin confronts Zimmerman, this is backed up by the girlfriends statement who heard Martin first ask Zimmerman why he was following him.
3.5. Zimmerman interrogates him.
4. A scuffle ensues.
5. Witness observed guy in red on ground, other guy beating him up. Guy on botton calling for help.
7. Lady witness heard someone calling for help, heard a shot, came outside and saw Zimmerman standing over Martin.
6. Police report states that Zimmerman was beaten up.
7. Zimmerman receives medical treatment.
8. Zimmerman was questioned and a Detective (rank may be in question) wanted to make the charge of man-slaughter.
9. States Attorney tells him to hold back, don't have a good case due to self-defense claims.

These are ALL FACTS. Now if there are other FACTS out there that rebut any of these facts, then the self-defense claim can start to be unraveled.

There are a few things that are going to be hard to dispute, probably impossible.

1. We know Zimmerman did in fact follow Martin. Can't really disprove this.
2. Hard to disprove this. No witnesses, so this has to be treated as a fact.
3. Without an actual witness that SAW who confronted who, this will be treated as a fact, and tried to be rebutted with speculation.
4. Again, without an witness that saw it, Zimmermans claim of Martin punching him, coupled with:
5. Eye witness will be damning to the States case if they aren't able to break this one.
6. Is the police report authentic? What would back up their report of injuries? The medical services documentation when they attended to Zimmerman. They will have detailed information on what treatment he received and a bill, etc.
6a. The police SHOULD have taken pictures of Zimmerman before he was treated. SHOULD HAVE. If they didn't, then they short changed themselves here.
7. The treatment records will either support or rebut the claims from the police report about injuries Zimmerman has.
8. doesn't have any bearing other than we know Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense, but the Detective wants to go forward based on Zimmerman pursuing Martin. This is the part that a lot of people are hung on. If Zimmerman hadn't followed Martin, the events wouldn't have unfolded. Nice speculation/supposition. This MIGHT be key if they can break some of the other facts down.
9. He does the right thing in not moving too fast. One apple, one bite.

Good day.

Hence my comment. If Zimmerman is proven guilty, then the kid did not deserve it. My comment is based on what we know now and what has been claimed.

So far what has been claimed is that he followed the kid, and interrogated him when he asked why he was following him. Apparently the kid gets pissed off and attacks him, Zimmerman shoots him in self defense. So from what we have so far, he should've never followed the kid to begin with...the kid should not have hit him first but at the same time, Zimmerman obviously provoked him first by following him thus instigating him, then shooting him in defense.

To me, that looks fucked up. I'm sure no one here can claim that they would be alright with an armed man following your child. So NO, he didn't deserve it!

[sainraja]

In my eyes, Zimmerman was told NOT to follow Martin, an order that he ignored. Everything else happened after that. So, I don't really sympathize with Zimmerman. I feel that he should get some sort of punishment for trying to take matters into his own hands.

Self-defense or not, whatever history the two of them have, doesn't matter. Someone is dead because of what happened and all everyone is doing is pointing fingers.