Man kills 17 year old Trayvon Martin, claims self defense

[MATRIX 2]

In my eyes, Zimmerman was told NOT to follow Martin, an order that he ignored. Everything else happened after that. So, I don't really sympathize with Zimmerman. I feel that he should get some sort of punishment for trying to take matters into his own hands.

Self-defense or not, whatever history the two of them have, doesn't matter. Someone is dead because of what happened and all everyone is doing is pointing fingers.

Look at it this way. Suppose zimmerman stayed in the car. And suppose it wasn't martin who was walking through the community, but a petty criminal. Who in the time it take the police to arrive, either breaks into a house or escapes from a burglary he just committed.

It would be yet another crime committed with the criminal getting away in the community.

If this happened so much that the police dept. didn't have frequent patrols through the community to prevent these crimes from occurring again, can you really blam people in that community not wanting to wait for the police.

[sainraja]

Look at it this way. Suppose zimmerman stayed in the car. And suppose it wasn't martin who was walking through the community, but a petty criminal. Who in the time it take the police to arrive, either breaks into a house or escapes from a burglary he just committed.

It would be yet another crime committed with the criminal getting away in the community.

If this happened so much that the police dept. didn't have frequent patrols through the community to prevent these crimes from occurring again, can you really blam people in that community not wanting to wait for the police.

That's just a what-if scenario that can be applied in many unfortunate (or even fortunate) situations. I can't really form an opinion by it....

[Sub-stance1]

Where does it look like that? Links? Not seeing injuries on someone on a video you can't even IDENTIFY who the people are, yet, they are trying to disect whether you can see any cuts on him is beyond pathetic.

He claimed he suffered a broken nose .Where is the evidence of that? Where is the evidence that he was beaten for over a minute as he claimed? Videos can be enhanced and you can get a very good close up of any part as long as the camera can see it. There is nothing to corroborate the story of him saying he was beaten so severely or that he was fighting for his life.

[plustheharm]

Look at it this way. Suppose zimmerman stayed in the car. And suppose it wasn't martin who was walking through the community, but a petty criminal. Who in the time it take the police to arrive, either breaks into a house or escapes from a burglary he just committed.

It would be yet another crime committed with the criminal getting away in the community.

If this happened so much that the police dept. didn't have frequent patrols through the community to prevent these crimes from occurring again, can you really blam people in that community not wanting to wait for the police.

Look at it this way. What if, and hear me out, what if aliens were involved? Well, they weren't. See how easy that is?

[MATRIX 2]

That's just a what-if scenario that can be applied in many unfortunate (or even fortunate) situations. I can't really form an opinion by it....

Well considering the police have no duty to protect you.....

[plustheharm]

Not as stupid as saying a 17yr old cant beat up an older guy who weighs more (what was said not counting the post i quoted)especially when he jumped him which is what you guys are ignoring. Ever been hit from behind by surprise? Hurts more when you dont see it coming.

Thats why the weight thing should be dismissed because he was jumped.

Sorry, but I thought I replied to this before I updated my cbook.
Thing is, I have been hit from behind. But that didn't happen here. So that isn't relevant.

When this was discussed earlier, which I believe it was (could've been another forum) I admitted that it isn't unreasonable to think that someone could be caught off guard, knocked over, especially if that one report that he was hit from behind was true. But that is not the case.

He was punched in the nose before he fell over. After the words were exchanged. So it wasn't like dude spun him around and caught him off guard either. This dude knew what he was doing, he wasn't going to be caught with his guard down that easily.

Who here, honestly, has been in a face to face confrontation? Not even knowing if blows were gonna get thrown, but the chance ... you have that feeling, you are prepared. You are ready for an altercation. Dude punched him in the nose and he fell over. That's when this "vicious beating" occurred. Something that seems questionable now. Couple that with the fact that Zimmerman was packing, was already "prepared" for what he might encounter that night.

I'll say it again; not unreasonable to think a 17 year old could beat someone up, but it's not a given. Hardly unreasonable to think he could have caught him off his guard, but that seems less and less likely. This dude had a pretty good idea of what he was doing, and this wasn't his first week of "neighborhood watch" duty.

----

And as for the PD tape, whether or not you can see injuries ... we are being led to believe that he took a pretty serious beating. From the time the police showed up at the scene, to the point he entered the garage at the PD, 40 some minutes had passed. Two officers are said to have been at the scene, two filled out reports, and only ONE thought it was relevant to list any "injuries." The other didn't seem to think it was important to detail that. This dude also didn't go to the hospital until the following day. So if his head injuries were so severe, assuming that these reports of this "vicious beating" are true, why was that put so far away? I think we can discount the need of stitches, at this point. They weren't administered at the scene, that much seems evident.

Now, it seems as if proper police procedure wasn't exactly followed, for whatever reason .. so maybe you have some lazy cops and one just jetted through his report, didn't think the injuries were worthy of mentioning. I wouldn't rule that out, but that's suspect. Even a morgue rep said that Trayvon lacked injuries on his hands, something to suggest he didn't really throw down .. now, apparently he punched him more than once, it wasn't like he was slamming his head into the ground for a minute straight (which is apparently how long the altercation lasted).

[F34R]

He claimed he suffered a broken nose .Where is the evidence of that? Where is the evidence that he was beaten for over a minute as he claimed? Videos can be enhanced and you can get a very good close up of any part as long as the camera can see it. There is nothing to corroborate the story of him saying he was beaten so severely or that he was fighting for his life.

The Police report + witness.

Just to be clear also, Zimmerman wasn't ever told NOT TO FOLLOW the suspicious person. Even IF he was, he isn't under any obligation to follow the instructions. He's a free citizen in a free society, and can walk wherever he wants in public unless there is a court order stating otherwise.

Just to reitterate though, he was NOT told to NOT FOLLOW the kid.

LOL @ the stitches comment. In 12 years, countless bullet wounds, stabbings, cuts, lacerations, etc., I've never seen any medic put stitches in a wound lol.

[plustheharm]

The Police report + witness.

Just to be clear also, Zimmerman wasn't ever told NOT TO FOLLOW the suspicious person. Even IF he was, he isn't under any obligation to follow the instructions. He's a free citizen in a free society, and can walk wherever he wants in public unless there is a court order stating otherwise.

Just to reitterate though, he was NOT told to NOT FOLLOW the kid.

LOL @ the stitches comment. In 12 years, countless bullet wounds, stabbings, cuts, lacerations, etc., I've never seen any medic put stitches in a wound lol.

He was told that he didn't NEED to follow the suspect. Now, picking pubes - again, but that essentially means you shouldn't. Zimmerman initially seems to accept this, saying he'll be at the "mailboxes" when the police arrive. He then says "give them my number so when they call they'll know where to find me." He knew he wasn't going to be at the mailboxes. He was essentially told not to follow him. He did anyways. He knew what he was going to.

My point about the stitches .. the time between being transferred to the PD ... it doesn't add up. He was "attacked / beaten" and he was cleaned up, questioned, transported, and arrived at the PD UNDER a single hour.

Now, hate to admit this, but I copped a DUI when I was 18. Yeah, car full of people ... whatever. But even in that instance it took longer than a single fucking hour to reach the PD. And I didn't have injuries. I wasn't questioned. The PD didn't really need to "look over the scene," the scene of a "murder," no less.

C'mon, you know where I was taking that comment ... please don't twist it.

FEAR, as a LE member .. what is exactly your title? I'm honestly curious. Not going to make a point of it, just curious. Are stitches usually administered at the scene of an incident? No, often they are not. I know this from experience.

It all plays into the "beating" angle, coupled with the fact that an officer's report that didn't list injuries. Apparently didn't seem relevant. Also his injuries didn't seem drastic enough to seek hospital assistance, until the day after, on Zimmerman's own decision.

Now, when something crazy like this happens ... when a struggle is reported, what happens? You look to confirm the account by assessing the injuries of the parties ... apparently the ME didn't think Trayvon showed signs to corroborate the account. How many times have you punched someone? I've had my few, my fair share, of fights. I've never hit someone without showing SOME bruising. And when pigment is lost with a corpse, bruising is entirely more evident. Apparently he lacked significant abrasions, bruising, to suggest a serious struggle took place. There are a multitude of indicators, something the ME, again, didn't think were that apparent.

And just as Zimmerman was allowed to walk where he pleased (no one is suggesting HE wasn't), Trayvon was as well. And he was profiled. And he ended up dead. Your point doesn't hold. He was told not to pursue the suspect, maybe in simpler terms, but he did anyways. He even INITIALLY indicates that he hears the "suggestion," but instead deems it necessary to follow him. This is evident in the tape.

Suggestion or a direct order, he knew what the guy was saying and he disobeyed it. after acknowledging it. You might be the only person suggesting he wasn't told NOT to follow him. That is a given in this case. The call confirms it, the call confirms Zimmerman knew what was being said and ended up thinking better of it.

Again, "they always get away." Apparently Zimmerman wasn't going to let that happen this time.

[plustheharm]

Dispatcher:Are you following him?
Zimmerman:Yeah.
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: OK

You're picking pubes when you should be picking boogers, FEAR.

Again, my point about the stitches ... if he was "attacked," and "beaten up" as we are led to believe ... the slamming of the head into the ground ... it would appear as if stitches might be involved. Maybe not, but that isn't something usually applied at the scene of a crime. That was my point.

In under an hour, the police arrived, questioned Zimmerman, surveyed the scene, and transported him to the garage.* Some suggest he is still being searched in the garage, the finishing touches of the search, but that doesn't necessarily look like it to me ... but it may be.

Ya know, just saying.

And Zimmerman had a right to be out there, that isn't a question. I haven't seen that suggested here, or elsewhere. But Trayvon had every right as well.

*I was specifically not including the medical "attention" administered for a reason, if that wasn't clear. The injuries appear to be insignificant enough to not warrant a trip to the hospital that night, or to be mentioned in ONE of the TWO reports made by the attending LE officers. Apparently not serious enough that a lengthy process was taken to alleviate said "injuries." Head trauma, injury, is taken seriously. Apparently it wasn't seen to be as bad as we heard, either by the view of the reporting officers, ME, or reported by Zimmerman.

Hell, his shirt is even still tucked in when he gets to the PD ... now, if he DID change his clothes, that would only add to the time. Hell, maybe he tucked his shirt back in AFTER the fact? That just seems weird. Why would he be concerned about his appearance after he fatally shot someone?

[Sub-stance1]

The Police report + witness.

They aren't medical experts. Where is the medical report that says he has a broken nose or any injuries? All we know is that he was treated at the scene and released to police. A broken nose would cause a lot of blood loss. That blood would have been on the victim as well.

Just to be clear also, Zimmerman wasn't ever told NOT TO FOLLOW the suspicious person. Even IF he was, he isn't under any obligation to follow the instructions. He's a free citizen in a free society, and can walk wherever he wants in public unless there is a court order stating otherwise.

Wasn't that true for Martin also? A guy who had just as much right to be there as he did. His father lived in that neighborhood.

Just to reitterate though, he was NOT told to NOT FOLLOW the kid.

No, but they did advise him not to. They said "just let us know if he does anything else". Advice he should of taken or none of this would have happened. The police knew who Martin was after the shooting. Why was he a John Doe? Why did they wait 3 days to get in contact with the family? Why didn't they interview his girlfriend?

The reported time lime is as follows:
7:12 Martin on the phone
7:17 Police on the scene
7:51 He was at the police station

[F34R]

He was told that he didn't NEED to follow the suspect. Now, picking pubes - again, but that essentially means you shouldn't. Zimmerman initially seems to accept this, saying he'll be at the "mailboxes" when the police arrive. He then says "give them my number so when they call they'll know where to find me." He knew he wasn't going to be at the mailboxes. He was essentially told not to follow him. He did anyways. He knew what he was going to.

It doesn't matter what you feel it essentially means. It means he wasn't told to not follow them, PERIOD. Cases are won and lost on words.

My point about the stitches .. the time between being transferred to the PD ... it doesn't add up. He was "attacked / beaten" and he was cleaned up, questioned, transported, and arrived at the PD UNDER a single hour.

Now, hate to admit this, but I copped a DUI when I was 18. Yeah, car full of people ... whatever. But even in that instance it took longer than a single fucking hour to reach the PD. And I didn't have injuries. I wasn't questioned. The PD didn't really need to "look over the scene," the scene of a "murder," no less.

C'mon, you know where I was taking that comment ... please don't twist it.

He was treated at the scene, then transported to the PD, then questioned. Your time line is mixed up, that's why it doesn't make sense.

FEAR, as a LE member .. what is exactly your title? I'm honestly curious. Not going to make a point of it, just curious. Are stitches usually administered at the scene of an incident? No, often they are not. I know this from experience.

It all plays into the "beating" angle, coupled with the fact that an officer's report that didn't list injuries. Apparently didn't seem relevant. Also his injuries didn't seem drastic enough to seek direct medical attention, until the day after, on Zimmerman's own decision. Now, when something crazy like this happens ... when a struggle is reported, what happens? You look to confirm the account by assessing the injuries of the parties ... apparently the ME didn't think Trayvon showed signs to corroborate the account. How many times have you punched someone? I've had my few, my fair share, of fights. I've never hit someone without showing SOME bruising. And when pigment is lost with a corpse, bruising is entirely more evident. Apparently he lacked significant abrasions, bruising, to suggest a serious struggle took place. There are a multitude of indicators, something the ME, again, didn't think were that apparent.

My title?

Ususally, the primary report has the injuries listed. If two different officers turn in a report, the primary report will have the injuries, and the other officer will detail what role he took place on the scene. It's usually referred to as a supplementary report.

All your comments on the injuries, not seeking medical attention, etc., mean what? It isn't evidence. It isn't even an indication of anything other than he didn't go to the emergency room that night. I can cite a bunch of cases where people refused medical treatment beyond first responders even though they obviously needed it. It doesn't really mean much and isn't evident of anything.

I'd like a link to your medical examiner info.

And just as Zimmerman was allowed to walk where he pleased (no one is suggesting HE wasn't), Trayvon was as well. And he was profiled. And he ended up dead. Your point doesn't hold. He was told not to pursue the suspect, maybe in simpler terms, but he did anyways. He even INITIALLY indicates that he hears the "suggestion," but instead deems it necessary to follow him. This is evident in the tape.

He didn't stop Martin from walking wherever he wanted. He even, by his accounts, turned to leave and was confronted by Martin. The point is extremely valid and relevant, especially if this ends up in court.

Suggestion or a direct order, he knew what the guy was saying and he disobeyed it. after acknowledging it. You might be the only person suggesting he wasn't told NOT to follow him. That is a given in this case. The call confirms it, the call confirms Zimmerman knew what was being said and ended up thinking better of it.

Again, "they always get away." Apparently Zimmerman wasn't going to let that happen this time.

He didn't disobey anything. The dispatcher doesn't hold any authority over him. Regardless of whether he acknowledged that they didn't need him to follow the person he was reporting. You might feel I'm the only one suggesting it, but I guarantee his lawyer already has an asterix by that particular detail. These minute details that you don't think are important are going to be instrumental in the case if it goes to court. I don't think you realize how important these little details are. He's under no obligation to the direction of the dispatcher.

[F34R]

They aren't medical experts. Where is the medical report that says he has a broken nose or any injuries? All we know is that he was treated at the scene and released to police. A broken nose would cause a lot of blood loss. That blood would have been on the victim as well.


Wasn't that true for Martin also? A guy who had just as much right to be there as he did. His father lived in that neighborhood.

No, but they did advise him not to. They said "just let us know if he does anything else". Advice he should of taken or none of this would have happened. The police knew who Martin was after the shooting. Why was he a John Doe? Why did they wait 3 days to get in contact with the family? Why didn't they interview his girlfriend?

The reported time lime is as follows:
7:12 Martin on the phone
7:17 Police on the scene
7:51 He was at the police station

I haven't seen the actual police reports, so I don't know who said his nose was broken. Are you a medical expert? Were you on the scene? I don't think you're qualified to say how much blood he might have lost, nor are you in any position to say any of that blood would be on the victim.

Yes, it was absolutely true. He never impeded Martin from going anywhere. Martin confronted him as he was walking away. That's a fact. If they told him to let them know if he did anything else, and he's walking away from Zimmerman, how would Zimmerman be able to tell them if he was doing anything else? If you want to contend that they advised him not to follow Martin, which they didn't, then they also "basically" told him to keep an eye on him to report if anything else was done.

[plustheharm]

It doesn't matter what you feel it essentially means. It means he wasn't told to not follow them, PERIOD. Cases are won and lost on words.

Sure, especially words pertaining to an account that can't be corroborated by another.

He was treated at the scene, then transported to the PD, then questioned. Your time line is mixed up, that's why it doesn't make sense.

He was treated for what seems like less significant injures. We are led to believe he had the opposite. Within a single, that's "one," hour, he was questioned, cleaned up, transported. If his injuries were so severe, so in need of cleaning, I'm not sure that all happens in one hour. Apparently many feel the same way.

Are you suggesting he wasn't questioned at the scene? I'm not suggesting he was given the full questioning at the scene, before he got to the PD, but do you think they just slap cuffs on someone? They didn't ask him about his injuries, before they cleaned them? That they didn't ask him what happened?

My title?

Did I stutter? Could be a meter maid for all I know.

Ususally, the primary report has the injuries listed. If two different officers turn in a report, the primary report will have the injuries, and the other officer will detail what role he took place on the scene. It's usually referred to as a supplementary report.

"

A supplementary police report is used when additional information is brought forward after the initial report was filed. Victims or witnesses usually come forward with information that is included in a supplementary report. Also, crime investigations that involve several officers may contain supplementary reports from other officers. If police are searching for a shooting suspect and one of the officers finds a gun, the officer may file a supplementary report to document the discovery if enough time has passed for the original report to be filed."

Both reports were filed by reporting officers on the scene. One wasn't made hours after the fact. One wasn't made the following day. Both reports are concerning, and were made, the same night.

All your comments on the injuries, not seeking medical attention, etc., mean what? It isn't evidence. It isn't even an indication of anything other than he didn't go to the emergency room that night. I can cite a bunch of cases where people refused medical treatment beyond first responders even though they obviously needed it. It doesn't really mean much and isn't evident of anything.

Simple. It suggests that his injuries are not as serious as suggested. The broken nose? I can buy that. The repeated slamming of the head into the concrete? Looks less and less likely. Refusing assistance is one thing, but when it's clear that you require it ... and a simple washing off, wiping off, isn't going to cut it ...

How many people step away from a car accident, refuse medical attention, only to have it be "forced" on them.

"Nah, I'm straight. I'll walk."

"Oh, ok."

I'd like a link to your medical examiner info.

http://bit.ly/HkCUNY

He didn't stop Martin from walking wherever he wanted. He even, by his accounts, turned to leave and was confronted by Martin. The point is extremely valid and relevant, especially if this ends up in court.

No one suggested as much, he only profiled him because he WAS walking about. And no, it's only valid if no one else can account for what happened. Doesn't make it a "fact," like I saw you suggesting before. Just because HE says so ... who knows, he might have tried to detain Trayvon, which as far as I'm concerned, is grounds for a punch to the nose. And that sounds more likely than dude just randomly throwing down.

"they always get away."

That, THAT, speaks volumes.

He didn't disobey anything. The dispatcher doesn't hold any authority over him. Regardless of whether he acknowledged that they didn't need him to follow the person he was reporting. You might feel I'm the only one suggesting it, but I guarantee his lawyer already has an asterix by that particular detail. These minute details that you don't think are important are going to be instrumental in the case if it goes to court. I don't think you realize how important these little details are. He's under no obligation to the direction of the dispatcher.

He was told he didn't need to follow him. That's all I need to hear. And he gets it. He acknowledges it. I know the dispatcher doesn't have control over him ... but this isn't the first time he called a report in. He applied to be a cop. He wanted to be a cop. He knew what the dispatcher was saying, his calm, collected thoughts encourage this theory. He knew what he was doing.

[plustheharm]

I haven't seen the actual police reports, so I don't know who said his nose was broken. Are you a medical expert? Were you on the scene? I don't think you're qualified to say how much blood he might have lost, nor are you in any position to say any of that blood would be on the victim.

Yes, it was absolutely true. He never impeded Martin from going anywhere. Martin confronted him as he was walking away. That's a fact. If they told him to let them know if he did anything else, and he's walking away from Zimmerman, how would Zimmerman be able to tell them if he was doing anything else? If you want to contend that they advised him not to follow Martin, which they didn't, then they also "basically" told him to keep an eye on him to report if anything else was done.

EVERYONE is saying his nose was broken. Even his fucking lawyer. FFS, dude, do you really type that jazz out and think, "that'll do it."

And why do you think someone would suggest you don't follow? For the safety and well being of the criminal? No, because you are looking out for the well being of the caller. You aren't trying to see anyone get hurt. So, yeah, you could say, "don't follow him." Regardless if it was an order or not, or how it was worded, the point was there. Zimmerman understood the point, Zimmerman decided better of it. THAT is something that will be brought up in court, THAT is a fact. You are seriously the first person to really suggest that there was no suggestion / hint that he shouldn't follow him.

He essentially says not to follow him, Zimmerman says OK. He decides against it. He says he'll meet the officer(s) at the mailboxes. He decides against it.

It is shit like that that will be looked at in the investigation, will be presented in court, that could very well sway this case.

You're missing the entire point. And at this stage you are just trying to back up what you were always hinting at ... that Zimmerman did nothing wrong. Why don't you just say it?

Again, bro, you're picking pubes. If you ain't careful you won't have any left.

[F34R]

Sure, especially words pertaining to an account that can't be corroborated by another.



He was treated for what seems like less significant injures. We are led to believe he had the opposite. Within a single, that's "one," hour, he was questioned, cleaned up, transported. If his injuries were so severe, so in need of cleaning, I'm not sure that all happens in one hour. Apparently many feel the same way.

Are you suggesting he wasn't questioned at the scene? I'm not suggesting he was given the full questioning at the scene, before he got to the PD, but do you think they just slap cuffs on someone? They didn't ask him about his injuries, before they cleaned them? That they didn't ask him what happened?

Ok,.... he wasn't questioned in the car according to the responding officers. He was secured in the car, given first aid, then transported for questioning. Get it? I have a partial report that includes the naratives from the first responding officers.

You have misinformation.

Did I stutter? Could be a meter maid for all I know.

Could be.. I still know more about it than you do.

Both reports were filed by reporting officers on the scene. One wasn't made hours after the fact. One wasn't made the following day. Both reports are concerning, and were made, the same night.

One narrative was filed 1hr and 1 minute after the other. Both narratives have a time stamp on them. Yes they were made the same night, an hour apart, and detail each of their own accounts of their involvement on scene.

Simple. It suggests that his injuries are not as serious as suggested. The broken nose? I can buy that. The repeated slamming of the head into the concrete? Looks less and less likely. Refusing assistance is one thing, but when it's clear that you require it ... and a simple washing off, wiping off, isn't going to cut it ...

How many people step away from a car accident, refuse medical attention, only to have it be "forced" on them.

"Nah, I'm straight. I'll walk."

"Oh, ok."

The narrative of one of the cops states "While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he'd been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head."

So where all the other info came from, dunno. That's what the report says, word for word.

http://bit.ly/HkCUNY

Cute.

No one suggested as much, he only profiled him because he WAS walking about. And no, it's only valid if no one else can account for what happened. Doesn't make it a "fact," like I saw you suggesting before. Just because HE says so ... who knows, he might have tried to detain Trayvon, which as far as I'm concerned, is grounds for a punch to the nose. And that sounds more likely than dude just randomly throwing down.

"they always get away."

That, THAT, speaks volumes.

Speculation, speculation, speculation....

He was told he didn't need to follow him. That's all I need to hear. And he gets it. He acknowledges it. I know the dispatcher doesn't have control over him ... but this isn't the first time he called a report in. He applied to be a cop. He wanted to be a cop. He knew what the dispatcher was saying, his calm, collected thoughts encourage this theory. He knew what he was doing.

It might be all YOU need to hear. He was following the suspicious person, nothing more. What's wrong with that? It isn't against the law.

[F34R]

Here's an update... this is the best look I've seen so far:

[plustheharm]

Ok,.... he wasn't questioned in the car according to the responding officers. He was secured in the car, given first aid, then transported for questioning. Get it? I have a partial report that includes the naratives from the first responding officers.

You have misinformation.

Concerning what? When he was questioned? Was he given the silent treatment at the scene?

Sounds like he was asked about the events, treated, transported. Wouldn't be the first time a responding officer inquired about the matter at hand.

Or do you mean the time?

If he was given the silent treatment I would want to know. Cause that shit would be pretty inconsiderate.

Responding officers are trained to inquire about the events ... whether or not you wish to answer them.

Could be.. I still know more about it than you do.

Cute, but doesn't really sound like it.

I have a partial chubby, but you can't see it! =P

One narrative was filed 1hr and 1 minute after the other. Both narratives have a time stamp on them. Yes they were made the same night, an hour apart, and detail each of their own accounts of their involvement on scene.

I'm seeing that supplemental reports can be used as a continuation of a police report (when the initial is too long), an amendment, or one that follows considerably after the fact. Like, specifically, not an hour later.

Doesn't really sound like they fit that bill. Both are concerning the situation, Zimmerman, and the scene. One just happens to be missing a specific detail not seen in the other. The injuries. Doesn't sound like one is based on completely different circumstances from the other.

You say you have a partial? I'm guessing that doesn't mean a full one, right? And I'm guessing the "partial one" means you have only one, right? So it doesn't really sound you have all that much more information ...

The narrative of one of the cops states "While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he'd been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head."

So where all the other info came from, dunno. That's what the report says, word for word.

So says that one report? Is that your partial? What say you to the other? Do you have that?

Cute.

Aww, thanks.

Speculation, speculation, speculation....

As is much of the "details," or "facts" as you liked to label them earlier. Speculation like he was thought have been seen on top, or that the cries were that of Zimmerman ....

It might be all YOU need to hear. He was following the suspicious person, nothing more. What's wrong with that? It isn't against the law.

Again, not sure why you all of a sudden started swinging this one out there ... no one said he was illegally following him.

He called in a suspicious person.

He was asked if he was following him.

He says yes.

He is told he doesn't need to.

He says ok.

He continues to follow him.

"they always get away."

He says he'll meet them at the mailboxes, but clearly has no intention of doing so.

I'm not concerned about whether or not it was illegal to follow him ... the question that will then be posed in court, the investigation, was whether or not his following of him, his possibly threatening demeanor, was what caused Trayvon to hit him. Maybe he thought he was defending himself? Certainly that isn't illegal ... certainly there are laws to protect against that ...

No one said it was illegal to follow him. He was essentially told not to, which he acknowledges. No one is even denying that part, but you want to all of a sudden bring that up and twist it around? Who is even questioning that? No one is breaking that down, suggesting semantics were at fault.

Dude was as cool as a cucumber on the phone. He wasn't rattled, unsure of what was happening. It's like you're trying to bring another angle to this thing.

And please, misinformation? Fill me in. I apparently have it all wrong.

I haven't seen a suggestion that he wasn't "questioned" at the scene. Do they sit him down in the grass like they do a table? No, but the "what the fuck happened" was undoubtedly asked, whether or not he answered it. Which is his right. Doesn't sound like he waived it though.

[Sub-stance1]

I haven't seen the actual police reports, so I don't know who said his nose was broken. Are you a medical expert? Were you on the scene? I don't think you're qualified to say how much blood he might have lost, nor are you in any position to say any of that blood would be on the victim.

How can you suffer a broke nose and not bleed profusely with some swelling? From all the ones Iv'e witnessed, there is a lot of both. Now, I'm not saying he wasn't hit in the nose, but being hit and having your nose broken are two different things. From that time line and that close up of the video when they entered the PD, it doesn't look like he suffered a broken nose. The key to this will be to interview the EMT who treated him at the scene. My guess is that his so called injuries weren't as bad as he made them out to be.

Yes, it was absolutely true. He never impeded Martin from going anywhere. Martin confronted him as he was walking away. That's a fact.

Martin was confronted first. This is backed up by the evidence of his conversation with his girlfriend. She said she heard Zimmerman's voice confronting him. Why wasn't she questioned about that from police? She is a very credible witness because the phone records will show the time they were on the phone.

If they told him to let them know if he did anything else, and he's walking away from Zimmerman, how would Zimmerman be able to tell them if he was doing anything else? If you want to contend that they advised him not to follow Martin, which they didn't, then they also "basically" told him to keep an eye on him to report if anything else was done.

Well then what are they saying when they say"we don't need you to do that"? That comes across to me as don't pursue or follow. Also, they never told him to keep an eye on him. They basically got his info and a location so he could meet up with the police.

Even if Martin attacked him this still doesn't fall under the SYG law because there is too much evidence that Zimmerman pursued him first. We know this because his girlfriend heard Zimmerman confront him and from the 911 call. Zimmerman is lucky that Martin died because if he would of survived that gunshot and live to tell his side, there is no doubt in my mind that he would be behind bars today. There is no proof that his life was in danger. All we have is his word and that won't be good enough to stop this from going to trial.

Here's an update... this is the best look I've seen so far:

That still doesn't mean his life was in danger.

[F34R]

Concerning what? When he was questioned? Was he given the silent treatment at the scene?

Sounds like he was asked about the events, treated, transported. Wouldn't be the first time a responding officer inquired about the matter at hand.

Or do you mean the time?

If he was given the silent treatment I would want to know. Cause that shit would be pretty inconsiderate.

Responding officers are trained to inquire about the events ... whether or not you wish to answer them.

It says specifically that he wasn't questioned.

I'm seeing that supplemental reports can be used as a continuation of a police report (when the initial is too long), an amendment, or one that follows considerably after the fact. Like, specifically, not an hour later.

Doesn't really sound like they fit that bill. Both are concerning the situation, Zimmerman, and the scene. One just happens to be missing a specific detail not seen in the other. The injuries. Doesn't sound like one is based on completely different circumstances from the other.

smh... I can finish an initial report, and 20 mins later, make a phone call in reference to a case, and document that on a supplementary report. Time doesn't have anything to do with it. Some agencies actually use an initial report to state the exact reason for the call. Then use a supplementary report to document everything else. All at the same time!! *Gasp!!!!

You say you have a partial? I'm guessing that doesn't mean a full one, right? And I'm guessing the "partial one" means you have only one, right? So it doesn't really sound you have all that much more information ...

I have the PUBLIC report, which is labeled PARTIAL.

So says that one report? Is that your partial? What say you to the other? Do you have that?

Other?

Aww, thanks.

It wasn't a compliment.

I'll post the report in a little bit. I have to go run DUI test for another agency. Probably take about 40 mins or so.

As is much of the "details," or "facts" as you liked to label them earlier. Speculation like he was thought have been seen on top, or that the cries were that of Zimmerman ....

The witness stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman (going by the descriptions he gave). A witness SAW and HEARD Zimmering calling for help.

Again, not sure why you all of a sudden started swinging this one out there ... no one said he was illegally following him.

He called in a suspicious person.

He was asked if he was following him.

He says yes.

He is told he doesn't need to.

He says ok.

He continues to follow him.

"they always get away."

He says he'll meet them at the mailboxes, but clearly has no intention of doing so.

I'm not concerned about whether or not it was illegal to follow him ... the question that will then be posed in court, the investigation, was whether or not his following of him, his possibly threatening demeanor, was what caused Trayvon to hit him. Maybe he thought he was defending himself? Certainly that isn't illegal ... certainly there are laws to protect against that ...

No one said it was illegal to follow him. He was essentially told not to, which he acknowledges. No one is even denying that part, but you want to all of a sudden bring that up and twist it around? Who is even questioning that? No one is breaking that down, suggesting semantics were at fault.

Dude was as cool as a cucumber on the phone. He wasn't rattled, unsure of what was happening. It's like you're trying to bring another angle to this thing.

And please, misinformation? Fill me in. I apparently have it all wrong.

I haven't seen a suggestion that he wasn't "questioned" at the scene. Do they sit him down in the grass like they do a table? No, but the "what the fuck happened" was undoubtedly asked, whether or not he answered it. Which is his right. Doesn't sound like he waived it though.

According to the police report he wasn't questioned. What part of that don't you understand? The officer specifically spells it out in the report.

How can you suffer a broke nose and not bleed profusely with some swelling? From all the ones Iv'e witnessed, there is a lot of both. Now, I'm not saying he wasn't hit in the nose, but being hit and having your nose broken are two different things. From that time line and that close up of the video when they entered the PD, it doesn't look like he suffered a broken nose. The key to this will be to interview the EMT who treated him at the scene. My guess is that his so called injuries weren't as bad as he made them out to be.

Martin was confronted first. This is backed up by the evidence of his conversation with his girlfriend. She said she heard Zimmerman's voice confronting him. Why wasn't she questioned about that from police? She is a very credible witness because the phone records will show the time they were on the phone.


Well then what are they saying when they say"we don't need you to do that"? That comes across to me as don't pursue or follow. Also, they never told him to keep an eye on him. They basically got his info and a location so he could meet up with the police.

Even if Martin attacked him this still doesn't fall under the SYG law because there is too much evidence that Zimmerman pursued him first. We know this because his girlfriend heard Zimmerman confront him and from the 911 call. Zimmerman is lucky that Martin died because if he would of survived that gunshot and live to tell his side, there is no doubt in my mind that he would be behind bars today. There is no proof that his life was in danger. All we have is his word and that won't be good enough to stop this from going to trial.


That still doesn't mean his life was in danger.

The girlfriend said that Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him. I didn't see anything about Zimmerman making contact with Martin. Again, I don't know where the broken nose comment came from. I posted what the officer that was close to Zimmerman documented about the injuries.

It doesn't mean his life wasn't in danger either.

[plustheharm]

That could be an injury suffered from earlier in the day. One cannot tell how fresh that injury is.

Yeah, I just did.

-redacted-

Ok, the public report. The "partial." Why tease like that? Seems sort of ... childish.

And, anyways, it says in the report that they exchanged words.

Again, semantics. You are really reaching.

Zimmerman said he shot him. He complies with all his commands. He is placed in the car.

When I say question, I suppose I meant "interacted with."

Christ, you're not only picking pubes ... you're pulling roots.

Folks, PDF right hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr;

http://s3.documentcloud.org/document...ice-report.pdf

I essentially meant they interacted, he was cleaned, transported. You really didn't see what I meant? I even said, " He was treated for what seems like less significant injures. We are led to believe he had the opposite. Within a single, that's "one," hour, he was questioned, cleaned up, transported. If his injuries were so severe, so in need of cleaning, I'm not sure that all happens in one hour. Apparently many feel the same way."

I clearly was not suggesting he was given a proper "interrogation," but he was interacting with the police in that BRIEF time from start to finish. Which was the point. The time frame. The point from here to there that included the "cleaning, or dressing" of wounds. Wounds that don't appear to be as bad as we are led to believe. Which was the point. You're swinging this conversation ... I see now you were just trying to avoid that deal.

Seems like, for someone reppin the LE angle, you are strangely evasive. I find that troubling.

[Sub-stance1]

The girlfriend said that Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him. I didn't see anything about Zimmerman making contact with Martin. Again, I don't know where the broken nose comment came from. I posted what the officer that was close to Zimmerman documented about the injuries.

No, this is what she said she heard:

“Trayvon said, ‘What, are you following me for,’ and the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’ Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn’t answer the phone,” the girl went on to say.

Now that doesn't prove who initiated contact but it does prove Zimmerman made contact. I don't buy the story of him not making contact with Martin. I think he confronted that Kid after he stopped running and got his ass kicked. In return, he shot him in the chest. As for the broken nose, Zimmerman and his lawyer claimed that.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/zimmerman...-clients-nose/

And what about what his girlfriend heard? Is that not evidence?

[plustheharm]

-edit-

amended on account of it not being the time for jokes, no matter the circumstance. no matter if others have done the same in this thread.

i do believe we are all here for the same purpose, and that is to understand what happened.

we all are taking what we will, from what we know. at this point there is no obvious right or wrong.

instead of pulling thought, some of us - admittedly I - have resorted to pulling pubes. are we not better than this? do the pubes deserve that?

FFS, until some more serious news drops, additional details ... I am going to try and refrain from posting in the thread.

let us not forget a teenager died that night, no matter the circumstance, when he shouldn't have. this we can all be certain of.

good night.


-ben

[Leviticus]

plustheharm;5801856]I'm starting to feel bad for Zimmerman ... what if he did get his ass kicked by a 17 year old?

That'd be pretty fucking embarrassing. Especially for an aspiring cop.

SMH.

i like to pull a what if like some do for zimmerman.

what if trayvon was so damn scare for his life due to him being follow by this man.

where he might have fear for his life in which it gave him the strength to kick this man ass even thought it cost him his life.

[plustheharm]

hi

i'd appreciate if you edit that post

i do not want to kick the proverbial hornets nest

until some more significant news drops i will attempt to not post again

my points were made, my views established. i have nothing more to say, and making light of the situation was an unnecessary post, so i should stop there.

[F34R]

No, this is what she said she heard:


Now that doesn't prove who initiated contact but it does prove Zimmerman made contact. I don't buy the story of him not making contact with Martin. I think he confronted that Kid after he stopped running and got his ass kicked. In return, he shot him in the chest. As for the broken nose, Zimmerman and his lawyer claimed that.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/zimmerman...-clients-nose/

And what about what his girlfriend heard? Is that not evidence?

Whatever you buy or don't buy is irrelevant. HiIs story is backed up by two witnesses that were interviewed. Yes, what she heard is evidence, but of what? That contact was made? Yes, contact was made, we already know that. Does it disprove Zimmermans story that the boy confronted him? No. It actually lends more credibility to it by her saying she heard Martin ask Zimmerman first why was he following him.