Man kills 17 year old Trayvon Martin, claims self defense

[F34R]

Yeah, I loved that video lol.

Familiarity with both the letter and spirit of conceal carry and self defense laws.

He called 911 about the kid. At that point he SHOULD have kept his distance and remained a passive observer until the police arrived. He chose to confront the kid, even after being told not to by the 911 operator.

There comes a point where one must ask if a person who is looking for a fight can reasonably claim self defense when he finds it.


In this case it certainly sounds like he went looking for a fight. Conceal carry or not, neighborhood watch or not, you do not have the right to confront and attempt to investigate or detain people who you simply SUSPECT that they MIGHT be up to no good. That is a job for the police, private citizens have no rights to detain or question unless they witness a crime in progress.... which this man did not.


Keep in mind that if this had been an 18 year old instead of a 17 year old kid, he may also have been carrying a gun, and would also be able to claim self defense in shooting the man for confronting him in a dark street without reason. The kid committed no crime and the man had no right to confront him.

That's all speculation though. Evidence people... they need evidence. You can make all the assumptions, generalizations, and speculate all you want... doesn't get you anywhere.

F34R, after watching these photos, tell me how this guy ever needed a gun to get things in control?



That's featherweight vs heavyweight (if you switch around the pics, it just sounds better this way).

Come on, the kid looks so scrawny and innocent.

This angers me. Makes me wanna choke that fat bitch to death.

Well, they've shown both of their pictures.....

@F34R - what are you trying to get at?

EDIT

Sufi beat me to it...

Lol. That's really funny. I wish I could post some pics up of this one kid who looks even less of a threat than that kid. Oh yeah, btw, just got convicted of double murder. meh.. but hey, he's just a featherweight.

[DayWalker]

^^^^ was the featherweight unarmed with candy in his pockets?

[F34R]

^^^^ was the featherweight unarmed with candy in his pockets?

What does that have to do with the statements I replied to? Not a damned thing.

[MATRIX 2]

^^^^ was the featherweight unarmed with candy in his pockets?

For comparison.

Zimmerman is 5 feet 9 inches tall.

Martin was 6 feet 3 inches tall.

[Sub-stance1]

For comparison.

Zimmerman is 5 feet 9 inches tall.

Martin was 6 feet 3 inches tall.

Means very little though. Zimmerman is the one who has to prove it was self defense.... He will have a hard time with that one. Big fail on him for calling 911 before he shot him too. Plus it doesn't help that people in the neighborhood are coming forward to say the kid was calling out for help before he got shot. Not to mention he was on the phone with his girlfriend saying he was being followed. To much evidence against this guy.

All that plus the cops made some huge mistakes. It doesn't look good for Zimmerman and the PD.

[MATRIX 2]

Means very little though. Zimmerman is the one who has to prove it was self defense.... He will have a hard time with that one. Big fail on him for calling 911 before he shot him too. Plus it doesn't help that people in the neighborhood are coming forward to say the kid was calling out for help before he got shot. Not to mention he was on the phone with his girlfriend saying he was being followed. To much evidence against this guy.

All that plus the cops made some huge mistakes. It doesn't look good for Zimmerman and the PD.

Just there to balance out the claim that it was a fully grown adult putting the beatdown on the little back boy.

[F34R]

Means very little though. Zimmerman is the one who has to prove it was self defense.... He will have a hard time with that one. Big fail on him for calling 911 before he shot him too. Plus it doesn't help that people in the neighborhood are coming forward to say the kid was calling out for help before he got shot. Not to mention he was on the phone with his girlfriend saying he was being followed. To much evidence against this guy.

All that plus the cops made some huge mistakes. It doesn't look good for Zimmerman and the PD.

Actually, no he doesn't. The State, or Government, has to prove it wasn't self defense. From what I've read, they don't have enough right now to do that.

[DINAMO788]

Means very little though. Zimmerman is the one who has to prove it was self defense.... He will have a hard time with that one. Big fail on him for calling 911 before he shot him too. Plus it doesn't help that people in the neighborhood are coming forward to say the kid was calling out for help before he got shot. Not to mention he was on the phone with his girlfriend saying he was being followed. To much evidence against this guy.

All that plus the cops made some huge mistakes. It doesn't look good for Zimmerman and the PD.

Its called innocent until proven guilty.

[Sub-stance1]

Actually, no he doesn't. The State, or Government, has to prove it wasn't self defense. From what I've read, they don't have enough right now to do that.

That won't be hard to do. They will have a field day with this case. They are building a strong case against this guy and it doesn't look like he will get off "scott free". They have released the full audio without the edits and it confirmed that he used a racial slur. Like I said before, calling 911 before it happened didn't help him. They will probably try to charge this guy with a civil rights violation on top of every thing else. Not to mention that PD is caught up in all of it too.

Its called innocent until proven guilty.

At least he gets a chance to prove that. It looks like he didn't give the kid the same courtesy.

[DINAMO788]

At least he gets a chance to prove that. It looks like he didn't give the kid the same courtesy.

Obviously not, but the point stands

[F34R]

That won't be hard to do. They will have a field day with this case. They are building a strong case against this guy and it doesn't look like he will get off "scott free". They have released the full audio without the edits and it confirmed that he used a racial slur. Like I said before, calling 911 before it happened didn't help him. They will probably try to charge this guy with a civil rights violation on top of every thing else. Not to mention that PD is caught up in all of it too.


At least he gets a chance to prove that. It looks like he didn't give the kid the same courtesy.

A racial slur? oh wow! Never heard one of those before. That proves it wasn't self defense how exactly?

Anyways, if they get enough solid evidence to charge him, then they will. Otherwise, they won't.

... and for the record, I'm not saying he didn't use excessive force, or that he did use excessive force. I don't think he should get off "scott free" if he did something wrong; and on the other side, I don't think he should be deemed guilty without due process.

[Sub-stance1]

Obviously not, but the point stands

I never said he was guilty but the evidence is leading to that.

[F34R]

I never said he was guilty but the evidence is leading to that.

What evidence?

[Sub-stance1]

A racial slur? oh wow! Never heard one of those before. That proves it wasn't self defense how exactly?

Anyways, if they get enough solid evidence to charge him, then they will. Otherwise, they won't.

... and for the record, I'm not saying he didn't use excessive force, or that he did use excessive force. I don't think he should get off "scott free" if he did something wrong; and on the other side, I don't think he should be deemed guilty without due process.

It doesn't prove it was or wasn't self defense but it does prove that he lied. For the record, i never said he was guilty. I said that the evidence that they have leads to him being the aggressor and the kid defending himself. I do believe that a confrontation happened but he may have initiated or provoked it. He is using that as an excuse for the shooting. That is my belief.

What evidence?

They have sworn statements from several people saying they heard him (the kid) crying and and begging for help. They heard a shot and it stopped. Zimmerman never said anything about that. That contradicts what he told police. Plus they have the phone records which shows the time he was talking to a friend who was telling him to run away when Zimmerman claimed that the altercation took place. It just doesn't add up.

Like I said that phone call to 911 will be even more proof that he pursued this kid. And for what reason?

[F34R]

Sworn statements are only as credible as the people giving them. Character is everything when you rely on someone else to testify to their version of the truth.

These are extremely hard cases to prosecute.

No, you didn't say that it leads him to be the aggressor and the other the defensive one.

I never said he was guilty but the evidence is leading to that.

That's what you said. You said the evidence suggests he's guilty. So you lied. Just now. You have lost credibility. See how easy it is for someone to be underminded and their credibility revoked?

So did you say the evidence suggests he's guilty, or did you say it suggests he's the aggressor? They aren't the same. Did you hear THAT boy scream, or did you hear a scream and assume it was the boy that was shot? If you're saying THAT boy was screaming just before he was shot, how can we believe what you're saying if you just lied about what you said about the evidence moments ago?

Obviously I don't tihnk you're a liar, etc., but that's just a simple example of how an attorney can tear someone apart on the stand and their testimony end up being worth shit to the case.

[ps3isawesome]

Sworn statements are only as credible as the people giving them. Character is everything when you rely on someone else to testify to their version of the truth.

These are extremely hard cases to prosecute.

No, you didn't say that it leads him to be the aggressor and the other the defensive one.

That's what you said. You said the evidence suggests he's guilty. So you lied. Just now. You have lost credibility. See how easy it is for someone to be underminded and their credibility revoked?

So did you say the evidence suggests he's guilty, or did you say it suggests he's the aggressor? They aren't the same. Did you hear THAT boy scream, or did you hear a scream and assume it was the boy that was shot?

Obviously I don't tihnk you're a liar, etc., but that's just a simple example of how an attorney can tear someone apart on the stand and their testimony end up being worth shit to the case.

Someone with no credibility saying someone else has no credibility doesnt really work though

[F34R]

Someone with no credibility saying someone else has no credibility doesnt really work though

Who are you saying doesn't have any credibility?

[T0PGUN]

Pffft. Yanks and their guns...

[Leviticus]

wow this is to funny to me black man go to jail for far less then what this asshole ever did, and look the dude kill the kid we all know this, the cops know this, and he knows this. I said this before if this was my kid, this guy and those that defend him and turn their heads. just call me the Punisher of the world.

[Xelios]

Who are you saying doesn't have any credibility?

Damn yo.

IT'S ON!!! FEAR VS PS3!! GRUDGE MATCH OF THE CENTURY!!!

[F34R]

wow this is to funny to me black man go to jail for far less then what this asshole ever did, and look the dude kill the kid we all know this, the cops know this, and he knows this. I said this before if this was my kid, this guy and those that defend him and turn their heads. just call me the Punisher of the world.

Why even make this about race? That's the problem with people. Who cares if they don't have the evidence to lock this guy up; hell, he shot a black kid, so let's throw his ass in jail without the proper due process, or evidence, etc. fuck the law, etc. I swear sometimes I don't have any hope for society.

If you, NOT YOU, were the one claiming self defense, I bet you'd hope to hell that they followed the proper due process instead of rash judgments based on Internet polls and petitions, and racial outcries. ffs.

[BoyBettaKnow]

If i shot someone even after i've contacted the Police and they told me to just leave it. I'd expect at least some form of trouble. He directly disobeyed the police and now his actions have got someone killed.

[Completely Average]

That's all speculation though. Evidence people... they need evidence. You can make all the assumptions, generalizations, and speculate all you want... doesn't get you anywhere.

I was not aware that I was required to have physical evidence to state my educated opinion that this case stinks.


Yeah, he probably will get away with a cold blooded murder of an unarmed kid due to lack of evidence, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a cold blooded murder of an unarmed kid. Just remember, being "not guilty" is not the same as being innocent.

[Leviticus]

Why even make this about race? That's the problem with people. Who cares if they don't have the evidence to lock this guy up; hell, he shot a black kid, so let's throw his ass in jail without the proper due process, or evidence, etc. fuck the law, etc. I swear sometimes I don't have any hope for society.

If you, NOT YOU, were the one claiming self defense, I bet you'd hope to hell that they followed the proper due process instead of rash judgments based on Internet polls and petitions, and racial outcries. ffs.

1st off i didnt make it about race, however that dude that kill the kid did. damn dude get over yourself.
dude when a grown man can kill a kid for whatever reason
i have no hope for society. you need to wake hell to this world we live and stop think you have the correct answer to all this when you dont.

fyi i didnt go off on any racial outcry or sign petitions, or be part of the internet poll. dont assume of me, i told you what i will do if this was my son.




edit: one thing i sick of hearing is when someone mention a person skin color that show how means racism.

[F34R]

I was not aware that I was required to have physical evidence to state my educated opinion that this case stinks.


Yeah, he probably will get away with a cold blooded murder of an unarmed kid due to lack of evidence, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a cold blooded murder of an unarmed kid. Just remember, being "not guilty" is not the same as being innocent.

Likewise, it doesn't mean it was cold blooded murder either. Maybe the kid got scared and went for the guys gun?

1st off i didnt make it about race, however that dude that kill the kid did. damn dude get over yourself.
dude when a grown man can kill a kid for whatever reason
i have no hope for society. you need to wake hell to this world we live and stop think you have the correct answer to all this when you dont.

fyi i didnt go off on any racial outcry or sign petitions, or be part of the internet poll. dont assume of me, i told you what i will do if this was my son.




edit: one thing i sick of hearing is when someone mention a person skin color that show how means racism.

First off, you DID make it about race with your first few words:

wow this is to funny to me black man go to jail for far less then what this asshole ever did

What does the guy being a grown man have to do with it? Killers come in all shapes, sizes, and races. The correct answer? I never claimed to have any answers. I do know, and fully believe, that everyone accused is entitled to a fair trial and due process, and I stand by that 100%.

Anyways...