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  1. #1
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    Opinion: Square Enix still has the "magic"

    This is merely my opinion, but I see Square Enix still has the "magic". What I mean by magic, is what it takes to make good, classic video games like they did in the 90's.

    What are the reasons why people are saying Square lacks the magic?

    1. Final Fantasy XIII
    2. Final Fantasy XIII-2
    3. Slow game releases

    People were disappointed with FFXIII and the XIII series as a whole. There are many reasons why. After waiting and seeing the game at E3, people got their hopes and expectations up and so when they finally played XIII, it only damaged the perspective more. In other words, expectations only increased the negative feedback. If the game hadn't been so highly anticipated and was just a normal, non high profile RPG, then would people hate it so and give it this much heck?

    Do I really have to explain slow game releases? Final Fantasy versus XIII and Kingdom Hearts 3 should be enough said.

    Now, Square Enix still has the magic. Don't count Square out. Despite these problems, they've still made some quality games over the years.

    Final Fantasy XII series
    The World Ends with You
    Dissidia Final Fantasy series
    Kingdom Hearts spinoffs on the handhelds


    I can't think of anything else, those four points are what come to mind.

    So don't count Square down and out for the count just yet.

    Currently Playing: Lumines Electronic Symphony (Vita)

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  3. #2
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    in my opinion, FF13-2 is the best JRPG this gen.

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    TBH I haven't liked FF as much since X, and I hated Dissidia, KH and their other handheld IPs are what's keeping me coming back to them now.

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    the kh series and versus is the ones i got my eyes on now i think they still got it just gotta pick up the pace that's all

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    They lost the magic at FF12 for me. However, they may earn it back if FFvs13 is amazing.

  8. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    TBH I haven't liked FF as much since X, and I hated Dissidia, KH and their other handheld IPs are what's keeping me coming back to them now.
    Totally agree. FFX was the last FF that I really enjoyed.

  9. #7
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    I remember starting to play FFXII. I wasn't impressed until I got through to some events. The challenging part was adapting to the gameplay although it made the game a lot of easier but really wanted more control over the other characters. It was still a great game. FFXIII is great too, but with the whole restrictions amd stuff made myself feel if I were to be coerced. FFXIII-2 was more opened and has the freedom that XIII didn't have. FFXIII-2 proved that Square still has it but they could've made the game longer.

  10. #8
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    Sorry to disappoint you but no game after X has that "Magic" you speak of. Final Fantasy XII has great gameplay but the characters are terrible(Minus Bash) and the story was ridiculous. The same goes for XIII minus the great gameplay. I have yet to play XIII-2 but to what I heard, it's using the same formula as XII(Great gameplay but terrible characters and story). I'll also reiterate what I said about, XIII: If the game was a standalone title, I still wouldn't think differently about it. It was just bad in all fronts for me.







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    Quote Originally Posted by voicebox View Post
    in my opinion, FF13-2 is the best JRPG this gen.
    Boy is that really not saying much.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FonFahbre View Post
    Sorry to disappoint you but no game after X has that "Magic" you speak of. Final Fantasy XII has great gameplay but the characters are terrible(Minus Bash) and the story was ridiculous. The same goes for XIII minus the great gameplay. I have yet to play XIII-2 but to what I heard, it's using the same formula as XII(Great gameplay but terrible characters and story). I'll also reiterate what I said about, XIII: If the game was a standalone title, I still wouldn't think differently about it. It was just bad in all fronts for me.
    That's your opinion. To me, XII was amazing, XIII was awesome, and XIII-2 is everything XIII didn't do right, so even more awesome.
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    Final Fantasy XII was a decent entry in the series. Square Enix just needed to work on the story. Vaan wasn't convincing enough to be the central protagonist. Final Fantasy XIII and XIII-2 just doesn't interest me with all of the melodrama. However, Final Fantasy Versus XIII looks like it'll go back to the series' roots with the open-ended maps, darker tone, airships and magic while still attempting to keep the series fresh with its Kingdom Hearts-esque combat system.
    Thanks to Kwes for the avatar and Sylar for the signature!



  15. #12
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    I think they lost it ages ago. Ever since FFX, you could see the dip showing in FFXII. Then after that, they were just trying too much to catch up to former glory, that now I think unless they hit big time with the next FF or even FFV13, then it should be time to give up on them.
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  17. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorzilla View Post
    That's your opinion. To me, XII was amazing, XIII was awesome, and XIII-2 is everything XIII didn't do right, so even more awesome.
    Of course. I wasn't speaking out for everyone. The only thing I will compliment XIII and XIII-2 however are the graphics which are unmatched in the JRPG genre.







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  19. #14
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    Well, I started playing FFs with VII as many role playing heads can attest to doing. And I have yet to play a game that matched the aura of VII and VIII for me. I've gone back now and played games IV-VI and while greatly enjoying them and appreciating them as FFs (something that I seem to be able to do with 16 bit jrpgs that I have yet to play) nothing has matched those two FFs for me.

    Final Fantasy XII is probably the closest that comes to it, in terms of executing on all fronts (story, characters, and gameplay). It was mentioned above that the main character of XII was Vaan but Final Fantasy XII was more mimicking with its story FF VI where a whole host of characters shared the spotlight as primary characters. Ashe is really the main character of XII, even though you as the player play as Vaan. And I haven't played it in a very long time but I remember Balthier and Basch having prominent roles in the story. The main problem I had with XII though is that it seemed incomplete. If you remember back during when it was being developed Yasumi Matsuno the game's overseer fell ill and someone else took charge of development. If that had not happened I believe Final Fantasy XII would be right up there with VII and VIII for me in my gaming heart.

    Final Fantasy XIII though, really only excelled in gameplay. I remember being so downtrodden when I played this game, because it did not live up to the legacy that the series had established for itself. No towns, no world map, no airship, just a long string of relentless battles. And jrpgs this gen were already something of a rarity. I had placed great hope in Sakaguchi's Lost Odyssey but that game was a great disappointment and then to realize that the stalwart representation of the JRPG genre for so long was just a very uninspired affair was disheartening. How can you, as a Japanese role playing developer, be inspired by the Call of Duty series? Perhaps if Square Enix wants to take cues from Western developers they should look towards the likes of Bethesda, as Skyrim just sold 10 million copies. It boggles the mind.

    I have purchased Final Fantasy XIII-2 though, as many said it addressed the problems of Final Fantasy XIII. I'd love to see (Square) Enix recapture the magic they had during the Playstation era. Final Fantasy XII was a good step in the right direction for the kind of stories that they should be trying to tell, leaning more towards mature dialogue and whatnot. Maybe Versus or FF XV will spark a renewed passion for FF in my gaming heart, at least I hope so.
    Last edited by Fedos; 03-23-2012 at 03:37.


    Currently playing? Skyrim (360). White Knight Chronicles (PS3). Majoras Mask (Wii). Final Fanasy VII (PS2). Just completed? Final Fantasy VI.

  20. #15
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    To be honest, many of the old skool fans started saying FF lost the magic starting with FFVII and/or FFVIII!

    I know that's an eye opener. It's been so long now those conversations are long forgotten, but fans were VERY polarized when FFVII came out. I would say that the majority felt it was great, but there was a significant portion of the fanbase that felt the game was very flawed and a step down from previous iterations.

    FF8 was even more highly criticized in this regard. Many of the older fans didn't like the Junction system which made the characters seem to similar. The same thing was said about Materia from VII. The uniqueness of characters was going away.

    I personally felt that VI, VII and VIII are the high points of the series. I think it started to go downhill beginning with FF9, though I'm in a very small minority when it comes to not liking FF9 very much. (I hated the characters). FFX was better characer-wise and system-wise but I didn't like the story very much. X-2 was even worse story-wise but has (IMO) the best FF gameplay ever. FF12 was criticized for changing the system TOO much and making it too much like a western MMORPG.

    FFXIII is simply just another entry in a long string of disappointments to many Final Fantasy fans. Though we don't all agree on exactly when the magic began to fade, almost all of us agree that it is fading. And I'm an optimistic, glass half-full kind of guy. I give all these companies the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their latest offerings and prefer to try something myself than to make a judgment based on the ramblings of some game nerd a thousand miles away in his moms basement.

    Now, SquEnix has given us some quality stuff from time to time. During the PS2 era, they re-made Romancing Saga and added a bunch of stuff. The end result is one of the finest games ever made in my opinion. They are capable of the greatness of old. I just think they need someone with true vision to lead them in the next generations. Hopefully vsXIII turns out to be the game that brings the magic back. I'm really looking forward to the game, but doing so guardedly.
    Shinei!

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  22. #16
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    At the OP, the reason people think SE has lost its magic is more than that.

    People were mad at FF XIII not because it was a particularly bad game, but because not long ago the name Final Fantasy meant games that defined the RPG genre and in some cases the whole industry. These were the games that other developers would look upon to copy. And some of them are still considered to this day amongst the best videogames ever. This unfortunately cannot be said about FF XIII, no matter how much you actually enjoyed it.

    Also think of new IPs in past generations. For the snes there was Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana. for the ps1, Xenogears and Parasite Eve. For the ps2, Kingdom Hearts. All these games were very well received during their time and very innovative too. So what new IP did we get this generation that redefined gaming?

    And not only that, but also the philosophy the company has adopted of trying to please the west. Remember the Last Remnant and Infinite Undiscovery being 360 exclusives? That business driven attitude is not something the old Square would do. They would take many gambles in gaming design and they would pay off because they were simply too good to fail.

    At the end of the day I still think they have a lot of talent in there, but they don't allow those talents to have any impact. Is it possible that after Sakaguchi left the new management wouldn't allow the designers to fully exploit their creativity? I don't know, but the one thing I do know is that I can't remember what was the last SE game that even came close to their classic titles, and unfortunately I don't see anything in the near future either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibiquera View Post
    At the OP, the reason people think SE has lost its magic is more than that.

    People were mad at FF XIII not because it was a particularly bad game, but because not long ago the name Final Fantasy meant games that defined the RPG genre and in some cases the whole industry. These were the games that other developers would look upon to copy. And some of them are still considered to this day amongst the best videogames ever. This unfortunately cannot be said about FF XIII, no matter how much you actually enjoyed it.

    Also think of new IPs in past generations. For the snes there was Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana. for the ps1, Xenogears and Parasite Eve. For the ps2, Kingdom Hearts. All these games were very well received during their time and very innovative too. So what new IP did we get this generation that redefined gaming?

    And not only that, but also the philosophy the company has adopted of trying to please the west. Remember the Last Remnant and Infinite Undiscovery being 360 exclusives? That business driven attitude is not something the old Square would do. They would take many gambles in gaming design and they would pay off because they were simply too good to fail.

    At the end of the day I still think they have a lot of talent in there, but they don't allow those talents to have any impact. Is it possible that after Sakaguchi left the new management wouldn't allow the designers to fully exploit their creativity? I don't know, but the one thing I do know is that I can't remember what was the last SE game that even came close to their classic titles, and unfortunately I don't see anything in the near future either.
    This. I will say though that Square-Enix's offerings on the portables are the only things remotely close to the classics they made their name on. It's sad but I'm one of the firm believers that Sakaguchi leaving devastated the company artistically at least. At this point the Nomura projects are the only thing SE has that even remotely keeps me interested in them.
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  24. #18
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    I thought Nier had plenty of that old school SE magic IMO.
    Retired FFXI player. FFXIV player, Malboro Server.




  25. #19
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    FF Versus 13 says hi. Open world map and airships are good enough for me to know that there is still hope. Still a little square soft in them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaddes View Post
    I thought Nier had plenty of that old school SE magic IMO.
    I don't know. I think Nier is in a league of it's own.







  27. #21
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    square enix has the magic like chris angel....


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  28. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulious777 View Post
    FF Versus 13 says hi. Open world map and airships are good enough for me to know that there is still hope. Still a little square soft in them.
    We haven't seen enough from VSXIII to say Square still has the magic....I'd refrain from saying Square still has it until after VS releases
    Thank You Shaq...For Everything

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    Quote Originally Posted by LegendaryAim View Post
    We haven't seen enough from VSXIII to say Square still has the magic....I'd refrain from saying Square still has it until after VS releases
    I concur. The game looks promising but we don't know anything about the plot and how it will turn out.







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    Quote Originally Posted by FonFahbre View Post
    I concur. The game looks promising but we don't know anything about the plot and how it will turn out.
    I know from a gameplay stand point. Square can still make a game that plays good. FFXIII-2 and XIII to an extent had a great battle system....the story though which used to be such a selling point for the series..is what Square is struggling with presently.
    Thank You Shaq...For Everything

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