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    Collapse

    I have been getting increasingly more and more worried about society collapsing.

    Call me crazy but something has to give sooner or later and there is no sign of it getting better at the moment.


    Il throw a couple of recent example out there -

    There are talks about petrol strikes in england which may happen in two weeks time. If the worse was to happen and after two weeks no-one could get petrol it would cause mayhem. Im pretty sure socitey would collapse very quickly if it didn't get sorted and I find that very worrying, we seem to be hanging in a very fine balance at the moment.

    Another example, but completely different.... there is possibility that a strong solar flare could happen and knock electricity out around the world, again im pretty sure society would collapse if this happened too if we couldn't bring it back on.

    Prices rising on everything will also only go so far before something snaps.


    Anyway the reason I started this thread was to find out the following -

    1) How likely do you think something like the above (doesn't have to be these examples exactly) could cause socitey to collapse. Collapse as in the government have no control, all loss of services we are dependant on such as gas, electric etc. obviously.

    2) If socitey collapsed tomorrow, what would you do to survive?

    3) If you knew in a months time socitey would collapse (and no-one else did) what would you do to survive?


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    I wouldn't do anything, because there will always be someone in power or with authority no matter what happens. Even if this society did collapse and we went backwards in terms of technology, someone would rise up and lead and establish order. If we went back into being a tribal society, a chief would rise into power. If we went back into medieval times, a king or queen would rise. So on and so forth.

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    The solar stuff happens roughly every decade, this is nothing to freak out about. Additionally, every decade there have been strikes, riots, and some amount of turmoil.

    Many of us are just not old enough to remember.


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    @The Black Wolf
    Do you think so? So if society collapsed tomorrow, all the supermarkets and everything get raided. How will you live whilst whoever you think will take power, actually regains control and makes basic things like food and water available again?

    Im not saying your wrong, im just thinking that, say if electricity got knocked out for 3months, and everyone went nuts. You think someone else could take control of everyone that easily?

    @Vulgotha
    Nature sometimes isnt predictable, what if a giant one happens?
    Same with people. What if the riots were 100x the scale?


    Just throwing things out there, so from the first two replies, you think theres nothing to worry about, it will sort itself out?
    Last edited by fusion2; 03-29-2012 at 02:25.


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    Quote Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
    Do you think so? So if society collapsed tomorrow, all the supermarkets and everything get raided. How will you live whilst whoever you think will take power, actually regains control and makes basic things like food and water available again?

    Im not saying your wrong, im just thinking that, say if electricity got knocked out for 3months, and everyone went nuts. You think someone else could take control of everyone that easily?
    Well, I would probably do what my parents and grandparents did: grow your own vegetables, kill the deer on and around our land, and fetch water out of creeks, use rainwater or whatever it took back then. If something like that were to happen, we're in great shape because my parents are not far removed from those days.

    As for someone taking control, it's not that it would be easy. More like it would be necessary. Someone strong would start pitching in ideas and leading and then people would eventually declare that person or another strong leadership person as the leader, as the chief, as the king, and so on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    Well, I would probably do what my parents and grandparents did: grow your own vegetables, kill the deer on and around our land, and fetch water out of creeks, use rainwater or whatever it took back then. If something like that were to happen, we're in great shape because my parents are not far removed from those days.

    As for someone taking control, it's not that it would be easy. More like it would be necessary. Someone strong would start pitching in ideas and leading and then people would eventually declare that person or another strong leadership person as the leader, as the chief, as the king, and so on.
    I see, that is ideal! I live in a rural area. It wouldn't be possible to hunt animals, the only land people have around here would be there gardens, and it would be very hard to become self sufficient if you have not prepared and know what you are doing I imagine, especially around my area. (im looking into how I can be!)

    I agree with you on the leader part, though im not sure how much they could lead with no communication like we have today.

    Interesting though!


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    Quote Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
    @The Black Wolf
    Do you think so? So if society collapsed tomorrow, all the supermarkets and everything get raided. How will you live whilst whoever you think will take power, actually regains control and makes basic things like food and water available again?

    Im not saying your wrong, im just thinking that, say if electricity got knocked out for 3months, and everyone went nuts. You think someone else could take control of everyone that easily?

    @Vulgotha
    Nature sometimes isnt predictable, what if a giant one happens?
    Same with people. What if the riots were 100x the scale?


    Just throwing things out there, so from the first two replies, you think theres nothing to worry about, it will sort itself out?

    What if the CERN particle accelerator created a black hole within the core of the earth? There is actually a chance, no matter how slight, that this will happen. There's also a chance an astral body will come out of nowhere and obliterate earth within a few moments notice.

    Or your house could catch on fire in your sleep and die. Or you could have a brain aneurysm.


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    Quote Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post

    I agree with you on the leader part, though im not sure how much they could lead with no communication like we have today.

    Interesting though!
    They could still lead with communication, it would just be slower and different communication. Messengers on horse back, carrier pigeons, you name it. There are many ways to communicate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    What if the CERN particle accelerator created a black hole within the core of the earth? There is actually a chance, no matter how slight, that this will happen. There's also a chance an astral body will come out of nowhere and obliterate earth within a few moments notice.

    Or your house could catch on fire in your sleep and die. Or you could have a brain aneurysm.
    I wonder why I keep off forums these days...... never mind. I wanted a sensible discussion....


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    They could still lead with communication, it would just be slower and different communication. Messengers on horse back, carrier pigeons, you name it. There are many ways to communicate.
    Do you not think because of over population and if communication is limited, there may become lots of leaders, sort of leaders within each town. That will become enclosed to eachother and fight amongst other towns.

    I find it unlikely there could be one blanket government like there is now if something on this scale happened.


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    The solar flare already happened didn't it. Nothing happened

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    Quote Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
    Do you not think because of over population and if communication is limited, there may become lots of leaders, sort of leaders within each town. That will become enclosed to eachother and fight amongst other towns.

    I find it unlikely there could be one blanket government like there is now if something on this scale happened.
    That's true. However, some tribes were so small that the area they lived in would be considered the size of a town. Then, of course, there are tribes within tribes, clans.

    You are most likely aware of this, but clans within tribes would fight each other and there would be leaders of the clans.

    This is only my opinion, but if we were to take a giant step back technology wise, I think that's what would happen. We would either go back to being tribes, go back medieval times, or another form of society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    That's true. However, some tribes were so small that the area they lived in would be considered the size of a town. Then, of course, there are tribes within tribes, clans.

    You are most likely aware of this, but clans within tribes would fight each other and there would be leaders of the clans.

    This is only my opinion, but if we were to take a giant step back technology wise, I think that's what would happen. We would either go back to being tribes, go back medieval times, or another form of society.
    I pretty much agree with you. Well.... I would hope people would come together and make it through in groups rather than fighting all the time and it being the end of everything.

    I would prefer to live on my own self sufficient farm I think, with a very small community to get through, that would be ideal, ha.

    Cheers for your thoughts!


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    Well apparently the next solar flare in 2013 could be so powerful that it might knock out entire power grids worldwide and it would take 4 to 10 years to completely rebuild...then yes, I can 100% guarantee you that society will collapse...and wanna know why? Because the law will not be as strong and look at events like Hurricane Katrina and the Canada blackout in 2003 which lasted 2 full days..people already started looting.

    People will form their own laws and towns or take over popular city centers and then get taken over by the next group. I mean we're looking at Mad Max, Walking Dead and Fallout scenarios, excluding the super mutants and zombies or what have you. The bottom line is:

    Everyone will look out for their own skin and maybe band up..but once resources run dry...you're gonna have have to do what you thought you never could. The dangerous ones will naturally rape, kill and steal for fun. This WILL happen if a solar flare is that powerful. But like Vulgotha said, solar flares happen all the time..a recent one was pretty powerful but it didn't knock out anything..still, I am worried.
    Last edited by Lebowski; 03-29-2012 at 03:47.


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    Sigh, no. That solar flare has been erroneously compared to the largest ever recorded which was well over a century ago- if one of THAT magnitude hit again then yes, such widespread damage would be possible.

    But that's a "extreme worst case scenario", its highly improbable. Highly.

    @Fusion,

    What I said is sensible. Especially since this thread is predicated on fear, and fear twists facts. Everything I mentioned in that post is plausible, but nothing getting worked up over. Because the world could literally snap out of existence in the proverbial blink of an eye for many reasons- none of them being probable. Dwelling on fear breeds more fear.

    The point I'm getting at is, you can choose to be afraid of these things if you want. It does not mean your fears are likely to manifest.

    So 1. Is improbable but possible at any given time.

    As for the rest, I live in Nebraska so I'd just go off into the west a bit more. I have weapons, basic gear. I'd need to learn some survival skills though. Key to survival in a SHTF scenario is getting yourself away from densely populated areas, and getting firearms. Surround yourself with people you know and trust, and have skills/resources available to survive with.

    Most basic steps you can take, and that I would advise taking no matter what, reading up on basic survival skills and getting weapons. Citizens should bare arms anyway for political reasons- as they are an extremely useful tool. Hunting, self defense, ensuring the people are listened to in politics etc.


    IF a solar flare hit that was ungodly powerful then yes. Satellites would be out and some power grids. Not everything everywhere, but enough to be problematic. The construction of a farraday cage could help prevent damage to your personal electronics in your house.


    The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) has taken the somewhat unusual step of declaring that the Earth most certainly will not be destroyed by a massive solar flare. But for adherents of various versions of “end of the world” theories related to the ancient Mayan calendar, it is unlikely NASA’s efforts will do any good.
    NASA’s scientists have been trying to answer the burgeoning number of Internet rumors and pseudoscientific claims that have arisen periodically for years regarding claims that the Mayan calendar predicts the end of the world on December 21, 2012. In 2009, NASA responded to the release of Columbia Pictures’ movie 2012 with an extended “Frequently Asked Questions” (FAQ) entitled “2012: Beginning of the End or Why the World Won’t End?” which dealt with many of the claims that had been floating around at that point. As observed at that time, there are parallels between the irrational fears associated with the “Year 2000” (Y2K) computer "bug" and 2012 doom and gloom:
    Remember the Y2K scare? It came and went without much of a whimper because of adequate planning and analysis of the situation. Impressive movie special effects aside, Dec. 21, 2012, won't be the end of the world as we know. It will, however, be another winter solstice.
    Much like Y2K, 2012 has been analyzed and the science of the end of the Earth thoroughly studied. Contrary to some of the common beliefs out there, the science behind the end of the world quickly unravels when pinned down to the 2012 timeline.
    The final question addressed in the 2009 FAQ pertained to theories of a solar storm endangering the Earth in December 2012, noting that:
    Solar activity has a regular cycle, with peaks approximately every 11 years. Near these activity peaks, solar flares can cause some interruption of satellite communications, although engineers are learning how to build electronics that are protected against most solar storms. But there is no special risk associated with 2012. The next solar maximum will occur in the 2012-2014 time frame and is predicted to be an average solar cycle, no different than previous cycles throughout history.
    NASA’s latest reply to 2012 fear mongering (“2012: Killer Solar Flares Are a Physical Impossibility”) focuses on the notion that Earth would somehow be destroyed by a massive solar flare. As NASA acknowledges, though it is true that solar flares can pose a significant risk for disruptions of the modern way of life by disrupting communications and power, the imagined risk of all life on Earth being destroyed by a solar flare is absurd:
    Given a legitimate need to protect Earth from the most intense forms of space weather — great bursts of electromagnetic energy and particles that can sometimes stream from the sun — some people worry that a gigantic "killer solar flare" could hurl enough energy to destroy Earth. Citing the accurate fact that solar activity is currently ramping up in its standard 11-year cycle, there are those who believe that 2012 could be coincident with such a flare.
    But this same solar cycle has occurred over millennia. Anyone over the age of 11 has already lived through such a solar maximum with no harm. In addition, the next solar maximum is predicted to occur in late 2013 or early 2014, not 2012.
    Most importantly, however, there simply isn't enough energy in the sun to send a killer fireball 93 million miles to destroy Earth.
    For those who are interested in actual scientific fact regarding “space weather,” several credible websites — including SpaceWeather.com and the “Space Weather Branch” of the Australian Bureau of Meteorology — have sections of their websites that carry regular updates on sunspots and solar flares.
    As NASA acknowledges, solar flares most certainly can have a dramatic affect on Earth — and despite the fact that humanity is not in danger of being wiped out by a massive solar flare, there are still risks associated with the naturally occurring pattern of solar flares:
    The explosive heat of a solar flare can't make it all the way to our globe, but electromagnetic radiation and energetic particles certainly can. Solar flares can temporarily alter the upper atmosphere creating disruptions with signal transmission from, say, a GPS satellite to Earth causing it to be off by many yards. Another phenomenon produced by the sun could be even more disruptive. Known as a coronal mass ejection (CME), these solar explosions propel bursts of particles and electromagnetic fluctuations into Earth's atmosphere. Those fluctuations could induce electric fluctuations at ground level that could blow out transformers in power grids. The CME's particles can also collide with crucial electronics onboard a satellite and disrupt its systems.
    In an increasingly technological world, where almost everyone relies on cell phones and GPS controls not just your in-car map system, but also airplane navigation and the extremely accurate clocks that govern financial transactions, space weather is a serious matter.
    Such risks are real, but nowhere near as flashy as a theory about the imminent end of the world. Given the fragility of the global economy, such potential disruptions could have an even greater impact than would be the case in more prosperous times.
    Notions of the mankind being swallowed up by a massive solar flare might make for a fascinating story, but if they take the public's attention from real and ongoing political and economic problems, they cease to be a source of amusement and become a dangerous distraction. Will mankind be destroyed by a massive solar flare? Certainly not. But a public worn down by endless hype regarding largely fictional or misunderstood threats is less likely to respond in an effective way to genuine threats to their safety and prosperity.


    ~ http://thenewamerican.com/tech-mainm...-destroy-earth


    NASA isn't panicking about the next solar zenith, neither should anyone else.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 03-29-2012 at 04:18.


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    Go read a book called 1968 by Mark Kurlansky. Besides being an extrodinary book, you'll realize the world has always been $#@!ed up and always been on this verge of collapse thing. Its just sensationalized fear mongering. OPEC back in the 1970s everybdy freaked out, thought the wolrd was ending. every day something new, but in the end, its just fear mongering. My suggestion, just take a step back examine whats around you. Just gain a little perspective because we aren't goin anywhere. Just because their will be oil strikes doesn't mean soceity will break down. in fact. if you want to see real strikes, look at the May revolution in Paris. That is probably one of the biggest strikes i can think of, and society didn't end.

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    I know a lot of people are going mental for petrol at the moment, huge queues outside petrol stations and a lot of those places are running out. I've also seen some raise the price as well to cash in on the panic buying. I need to get some tomorrow as I'm around quarter tank so I just hope it's not bat $#@! crazy.

    Even when we get snow people start panicking and buying loads of milk & bread from the shops then they run out of stock. It's surprising how fast panic can spread and how easily people lose their heads over certain situations.




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    There is much more chance of a large scale economic collapse occurring. Greece wasn't fixed, just allowed to borrow again in exchange for draconian cost cutting measures. This will result in large scale unemployment. Ireland has slipped back into recession and will probably need more money from the IMF. Portugal has been downgraded multiple times and is probably following Greece. Spain is seen sliding in that direction also. In Italy, there was recent news that the Mafia Bank was the number one bank. The problem with the IMF is that its liquidity has to be cash from somewhere, and that is from countries that are still seeing balance of trade surpluses like Germany and France. This can't go on forever because loaning and borrowing to still face default is going to pull down even those countries.

    Europe, over the past few decades, has become almost entirely dependent on outside suppliers for energy. The North Sea wells started going dry about 5 years ago, so there is more and more dependence on mideast oil, with Russia now providing a bigger and bigger share. Russia is also almost a monopoly supplier of natural gas to Europe. Visualize a huge pipeline into Europe providing oil and natural gas, then visualize another pipeline out of Europe, filled with Euros, pounds, gold, jewels, going to Russia and the mideast.

    A lot of ppl think of collapse as some sudden event. There is also collapse from rot, age, and decay that can be slow and crumbling.
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    the dollar will collapse, and the asians would decide to go on the china monies, so with the western world out of their money based international economy system, we couldn't afford to lend a hand to help in WWIII


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    I have a well, with a manual and electric pump. Generators... (if we have fuel). I have handcrank lanterns for lights. I have plenty of guns and ammo for hunting, defense... my family would be fine.




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    I'd grab my guns, some supplies, and my wife, and head out into the wild. We are both superb hunters, and are more then prepared to live off the land.

    Then I'd travel down and meet up with F34R's clan and we would form a new society.
    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.




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    It wouldn't take too long to trek down there. Not sure who far away lethal is, but will all three of us. We'd be a nation unto our selves.

    And what a nation we would be.
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    Wait are you deriving this off of the documentary "Collapse" ? You know the movie that details the viewpoint of Michael Ruppert of "The Wilderness" newsletters prior to his conviction of lewd sexual harassment of his female employees.

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    i think me and my friends will drive over to F34R's house and steal all of their $#@! when they are playing their drum circle out in the woods, of course stopping at every liquor store on the way


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