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  1. #1
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    You know they could have just complied with the police officer by showing him their IDs. Instead they used the opportunity to stir up some drama, getting it all on footage, and even having his friend put his hands on the police officer to try and get in on the action.
    Last edited by Metal King Slime; 04-01-2012 at 09:38.
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    What the officer did was illegal. They did not need to show their ID at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kni7es
    In any police encounter, you are one of three things:1) Free to Go
    2) Being Detained
    3) Under Arrest
    When you are stopped by a cop on the street and they ask for identification, you do not need to provide it unless you are being detained. You can only be detained if the police have reasonable suspicion that you're involved in illegal activity.
    You can ask if you are being detained or are free to go, but here's the problem... What if the law enforcement officer refuses to tell you?
    I would really, really appreciate someone knowledgeable on the subject to answer that question.
    http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/com..._crazy/c471678

    On top of that it's not illegal to film an officer.

    "...and even having his friend put his hands on the police officer to try and get in on the action."

    You really think he should just stand around while the cop pulls out a tazer and illegally threatens his friend? He was trying to stop the cop before he did something retarded and I don't think he even touched him. He was basically standing infront of him.
    Last edited by bash; 04-01-2012 at 09:44.
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    Maybe it depends on where you live but I'm sure you do.

    Still, my point was that they could have easily avoided this if they had simply shown their IDs. Not playing to the "All cops in America are evil" agenda that you love to eat up.

    And yes, he did put his hands on the cop. He was not "basically standing in front of him". Hell, he was more worried about the cop tasing him than his friend. He just wanted to get in on the action and cause more drama.
    Last edited by Metal King Slime; 04-01-2012 at 10:04.
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    Yes, there are bad cops. Yes, this cop was completely wrong according to the Texas "stop and identify" laws.

    edit:

    Sec. 38.02. FAILURE TO IDENTIFY. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information.

    (b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:

    (1) lawfully arrested the person;

    (2) lawfully detained the person; or

    (3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.

    (c) Except as provided by Subsections (d) and (e), an offense under this section is:

    (1) a Class C misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or

    (2) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).

    (d) If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this section that the defendant was a fugitive from justice at the time of the offense, the offense is:

    (1) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or

    (2) a Class A misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).

    (e) If conduct that constitutes an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under Section 106.07, Alcoholic Beverage Code, the actor may be prosecuted only under Section 106.07.
    Last edited by F34R; 04-01-2012 at 13:44.




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    Ahh the problem of youth today. Doing what they want without the respect for others, and having no respect for a figure of authority. Not required to show ID? So $#@!ing what? Just show the $#@!ing ID and be done with it.
    Too many $#@!ing do gooders in this world pushing too many boundaries and having no respect for figures of authority.

    bash, I've noticed in a few threads now focusing on police, "abusing their powers", that you like to pipe up against the police. It seems you have a problem with authority. And by looking at your age, you appear to be a typical 19 year old with no life/world experience who believes you have the right to do whatever you want. Just an observation.

    I hope that the people who like to give the police a hard time simply because, "they don't have to do what he/she asks" give Dominos a call when they come home to find their house broken into, their car stolen or their girlfriend raped, because they sure as $#@! don't deserve the help of the police.

    edit: everyone knows the police aren't perfect, but please find a job where people are. Don't push boundaries and show some respect and there will be no trouble.
    Last edited by oneJ; 04-01-2012 at 13:46.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneJ View Post
    Ahh the problem of youth today. Doing what they want without the respect for others, and having no respect for a figure of authority. Not required to show ID? So $#@!ing what? Just show the $#@!ing ID and be done with it.
    Too many $#@!ing do gooders in this world pushing too many boundaries and having no respect for figures of authority.

    bash, I've noticed in a few threads now focusing on police, "abusing their powers", that you like to pipe up against the police. It seems you have a problem with authority. And by looking at your age, you appear to be a typical 19 year old with no life/world experience who believes you have the right to do whatever you want. Just an observation.

    I hope that the people who like to give the police a hard time simply because, "they don't have to do what he/she asks" give Dominos a call when they come home to find their house broken into, their car stolen or their girlfriend raped, because they sure as $#@! don't deserve the help of the police.
    I'm going to respectfully disagree here. It is YOUR choice whether you comply. If YOU want to give your identification upon request, go for it. However, one shouldn't be compelled to comply solely on the premise that you are being asked by an authority figure.

    I think you also present a gross misrepresentation of how people should act so that they can be afforded the duties of the police in times of need. Basically, you're saying that people should bow to the police, regardless of constitutional rights, so they can get help when they need it? $#@! that.




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    Well the cop was to quick to pull out taser and his friend def should have just stayed back but instead did want to cause more drama by getting in front of officer, which is an obstruction and dangerous because no ome knows if he had a knife or gun or was going to sucker punch him. Frankley I'm surprised he didn't get tased(the guy who stood in front). Also love how everyone apperantly knows their rights all the time. Why where they filming in the first place?
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I'm going to respectfully disagree here. It is YOUR choice whether you comply. If YOU want to give your identification upon request, go for it. However, one shouldn't be compelled to comply solely on the premise that you are being asked by an authority figure.

    I think you also present a gross misrepresentation of how people should act so that they can be afforded the duties of the police in times of need. Basically, you're saying that people should bow to the police, regardless of constitutional rights, so they can get help when they need it? $#@! that.
    lol, I know my post was rant-ish and exaggerated. However I can't help but get pissed off when people like to jump on authority. It's the problem with the world today, with no one having respect for it. Yeah there is good and bad authority figures, but jeez, whats wrong with doing what he asked? It would have saved all the drama. It's not like he's asking the guy with the camera to run across a busy highway. Whats wrong with showing ID when asked? Because he doesn't have to? I $#@!ing hate that. I personally think it should be law, but thats just me.
    Why don't you do that? Because I don't have to. Jesus christ. Urgh. Too many people caught up with self righteousness.

    I dont believe people should bow down to police, showing ID when asked is hardly bowing down. But thats just my opinion. People just seem to want to push so many boundaries these days. People expect to get everything they want, when they want it, annoy people and then laugh at it when they post it on YouTube.

    I think maybe working in a prison has just made me a cynical $#@!er because the system is so hopeless. Maybe I should move to Russia.
    Disclaimer: I may or may not know what I'm talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuuichi View Post
    Well the cop was to quick to pull out taser and his friend def should have just stayed back but instead did want to cause more drama by getting in front of officer, which is an obstruction and dangerous because no ome knows if he had a knife or gun or was going to sucker punch him. Frankley I'm surprised he didn't get tased(the guy who stood in front). Also love how everyone apperantly knows their rights all the time. Why where they filming in the first place?
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say it was staged in order to provoke the cop. They were well within their rights to refuse, and refuse with force when he pulled the tazer.

    “When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.
    “These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.

    “An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).
    That's a few case law decisions to back that up.




  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksite View Post
    You know they could have just complied with the police officer by showing him their IDs. Instead they used the opportunity to stir up some drama, getting it all on footage, and even having his friend put his hands on the police officer to try and get in on the action.

    you my friend dont understand/ know your rights. and i find that very sad. here a post i like to share with you by this person.
    "diepud64 points ago
    I am an attorney in Ohio. I can't speak for other states but Ohio requires you to state you name, address and date of birth if a police officer has a reasonable belief to you committed or witnessed a crime. There is no requirement to show identification unless you are driving or consuming alcohol. Furthermore you don't have to obey an order that is unlawful. Everything these individuals did in the video was correct with the exception of putting a hand in front of the officer to impede his progress.
    If this had happened to me I would have loved to sue him, in his individual capacity so he would have to pay for his own attorney. Unfortunately this isn't as easy for someone who isn't an attorney or can't afford to pay one where, as in this case, there isn't much in the way of damages. Perhaps someone should organize a site where there are forms and procedures specific to each state to file unlawful arrest and assault cases against rogue cops."


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=_TPucQHtHZs#
    Last edited by Leviticus; 04-01-2012 at 17:13.
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    its not hard to catch bad cops.

    y'all have video recording on your phones. hit record and let them do their thing. (careful you don't get shot)

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    its how it is people, all cops have a breaking point
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    Quote Originally Posted by claud3 View Post
    its how it is people, all cops have a breaking point
    That's a gross misrepresentation of it though. Breaking point to what? Yes, there are bad cops. Bad citizens, bad lawyers, bad everything, in all walks of life.




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    One question...

    Why was the police officer there?




    You see, the photographer and friend are standing in a Walmart parkinglot, which is private property. Being private property a police officer cannot patrol or "guard" the location without the owners permission.

    If Walmart called the police and requested an officer to come and remove these two from the premises then everything he did was perfectly legal. His request for ID would have been totally legal as he would have been investigating the criminal complaint of trespassing made by the property owner. Putting your hands on a police officer and stepping back is called Resisting Arrest. The police officer is outnumbered 2:1 against suspects which are resisting, which fully warrants the use of the taser.




    As far as what your "rights" are, they are very limited when you're on someone elses private property.
    Last edited by Completely Average; 04-02-2012 at 06:24.

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    One question...

    Why was the police officer there?




    You see, the photographer and friend are standing in a Walmart parkinglot, which is private property. Being private property a police officer cannot patrol or "guard" the location without the owners permission.

    If Walmart called the police and requested an officer to come and remove these two from the premises then everything he did was perfectly legal. His request for ID would have been totally legal as he would have been investigating the criminal complaint of trespassing made by the property owner. Putting your hands on a police officer and stepping back is called Resisting Arrest. The police officer is outnumbered 2:1 against suspects which are resisting, which fully warrants the use of the taser.




    As far as what your "rights" are, they are very limited when you're on someone elses private property.
    He clearly wasn't send there to remove them. He just got uber angry because he though those guys were filming him when they were just filming the sign and other $#@! and talking. The he started asking for ID with no right then got even more angry when they didn't want to give it to him and pulled out his taser and tried to arrest them and telling them they were going to go to jail when they weren't really doing anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    One question...

    Why was the police officer there?




    You see, the photographer and friend are standing in a Walmart parkinglot, which is private property. Being private property a police officer cannot patrol or "guard" the location without the owners permission.

    If Walmart called the police and requested an officer to come and remove these two from the premises then everything he did was perfectly legal. His request for ID would have been totally legal as he would have been investigating the criminal complaint of trespassing made by the property owner. Putting your hands on a police officer and stepping back is called Resisting Arrest. The police officer is outnumbered 2:1 against suspects which are resisting, which fully warrants the use of the taser.




    As far as what your "rights" are, they are very limited when you're on someone elses private property.
    Let's not get into WHAT IF here. You see what happened on the video. The cop was standing there. When he saw them filming he approached them and told them they could film him and requested ID. Nothing about trespassing, wal mart calling him, etc. Maybe I missed it, but what crime did he tell them he was investigating?

    Furthermore, being on private property doesn't give the police the right to violate your rights. Just because I'm in the Wal-Mart parking lot doesn't give an officer the right to force me to identify myself. The officer doesn't own Wal-Mart.




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    Private proerty or not its still public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bash View Post
    He clearly wasn't send there to remove them.
    And you know this how? Were you the one that called the police and requested an officer on the premise?

    If you weren't then you're in no position to say why he was there.



    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Let's not get into WHAT IF here.
    Excuse me? Isn't that exactly what you're doing?

    Remove the "What if" and you're left with two people who are loitering (A crime in Texas) on private property, being approached by a police officer, refusing his lawful orders, and resisting arrest.


    You see what happened on the video. The cop was standing there. When he saw them filming he approached them and told them they could film him and requested ID. Nothing about trespassing, wal mart calling him, etc. Maybe I missed it, but what crime did he tell them he was investigating?
    I see two people filming on private property in a state which has laws against trespassing and loitering. They were not customers who were shopping, which means they had no legal right to be there.


    Furthermore, being on private property doesn't give the police the right to violate your rights. Just because I'm in the Wal-Mart parking lot doesn't give an officer the right to force me to identify myself. The officer doesn't own Wal-Mart.
    Actually, if you're in a Walmart parkinglot, and the manager calls the police about loiterers, then the police have every right to approach, question, and even arrest you.

    You seem to not understand what rights you do NOT have when you are on someone elses private property.

    You DO NOT have the right to Loiter.
    You DO NOT have the right to Trespass.
    You DO NOT have the right to video tape or film.
    You DO NOT have the right to refuse a lawful police order when approached.
    You DO NOT have the right to physically resist questioning or arrest.
    You DO NOT have the right to Free Speech.
    You DO NOT have the right to Protest.

    In fact, you don't actually have the right to be in Walmart at all, and Walmart employees or anyone lawfully acting on their behalf, (such as a security guard or police officer) can request that you be removed at any time. If you refuse or resist, you WILL be charged with a crime.


    Now that we are clear on that, precisely what rights do you think the police officer violated?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    And you know this how? Were you the one that called the police and requested an officer on the premise?

    If you weren't then you're in no position to say why he was there.





    Excuse me? Isn't that exactly what you're doing?

    Remove the "What if" and you're left with two people who are loitering (A crime in Texas) on private property, being approached by a police officer, refusing his lawful orders, and resisting arrest.




    I see two people filming on private property in a state which has laws against trespassing and loitering. They were not customers who were shopping, which means they had no legal right to be there.




    Actually, if you're in a Walmart parkinglot, and the manager calls the police about loiterers, then the police have every right to approach, question, and even arrest you.

    You seem to not understand what rights you do NOT have when you are on someone elses private property.

    You DO NOT have the right to Loiter.
    You DO NOT have the right to Trespass.
    You DO NOT have the right to video tape or film.
    You DO NOT have the right to refuse a lawful police order when approached.
    You DO NOT have the right to physically resist questioning or arrest.
    You DO NOT have the right to Free Speech.
    You DO NOT have the right to Protest.

    In fact, you don't actually have the right to be in Walmart at all, and Walmart employees or anyone lawfully acting on their behalf, (such as a security guard or police officer) can request that you be removed at any time. If you refuse or resist, you WILL be charged with a crime.


    Now that we are clear on that, precisely what rights do you think the police officer violated?
    You're assuming they are loitering. I never heard the cop ask them to leave. Did you? You're assuming way too much here.

    I've already quoted the texas penal code on the identifying issue. They aren't under any obligation to show an ID at all. PERIOD. Four states make it mandatory to carry identification, Texas isn't one of them.

    As far as the rest of your DO NOT have the right list; it's bs. Just because you don't know your own rights, or for whatever reason choose not to exercise them, doesn't mean others don't know what they can and can not do.
    Last edited by F34R; 04-02-2012 at 14:59.




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  25. #23
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    To me it looks like they did it to provoke a reaction from the police officer because they knew he would act that way, unless I'm mistaken and guys often go around filming shop signs and parked cars.




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    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    What he should have done is ignored them.




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