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  1. #26
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    hey MS footed the problem (RRoD) of rushing out the gates first and it paid off in the long run.....guess sony wants to go that route, which means ill be skipping the first batch of next gen consoles

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave-The-Rave View Post
    Better to have low hopes and being pleasantly surprised than jumping on the hype train again and being letdown.

    EDIT: Seriously though the jump to the next generation is not going to be anywhere near as impressive as the one from PS1 to PS2 or PS2 to PS3. I think we already know what to expect, which sort of robs us of the wow factor.
    And for each of those consoles I remember thinking that graphics could not get any better. Each time I was wrong.

    It is easy to look back now and see how the improvements could be made. But I watched the graphics evolve since 1985 and I thought the PS1 was the best we would ever see when it was out. Then I thought the PS2 has topped out on graphics. Then the 360, then the PS3....... See where I am going with this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal_NFS View Post
    How can you guys say you would be surprised if Sony launches first? Look what happened when they didn't launch first. I would be surprised if Sony let that happen again.
    Because unlike Microsoft, Sony lost a lot of money on the PS3. They need to make up that loss before moving on to the next generation.

    MS has been making money on the 360 since 08, they can easily launch the new xbox while continuing to make money off the 360. (while they work to make the next xbox profitable)

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    if sony does launch the ps4 before the 720 it will be within a few weeks.MS and sony dont want to launch a year after the other console. i bet they launch with in the same month

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    Quote Originally Posted by coolguy View Post
    if sony does launch the ps4 before the 720 it will be within a few weeks.MS and sony dont want to launch a year after the other console. i bet they launch with in the same month
    I agree with this. Both consoles will be released in the same month and consumers will have a tough decision on which will be the better purchase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TEJ2025 View Post
    I agree with this. Both consoles will be released in the same month and consumers will have a tough decision on which will be the better purchase.



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    I wonder how many video game customers are "confident" that no matter who comes out first... MS will have put together a more complete package.

    ie- both consoles launch with similar quality games... but LIVE's bells and whistles, apps, content, etc etc continue to make Sony greatful that nintendo is around to shield them from being completely embarrassed.

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  12. #33
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    I'll be quite surprised if Sony hasn't attempted to get PSN/SEN/WE upto par with XBL.

    I'll don't think either console will out do the other next generation


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    I contend that the last generation was only a half step to this incoming one. None of the consoles were truly capable of pushing games at 1080p with any kind of decency. The HD format war had to be settled before these in-house gaming hubs could really catch up to the TVs they are getting connected to. Add on top of that, the DX10/Crysis generation literally kicked off right in the middle of the ramp up to 360 and PS3 and it is very easy to see why gamers were generally displeased with the whole thing and why many casual consumers gave in and bought a Wii for that "new car feel" rather than the more powerful competition.

    This is going to be a better generation for not only game developers and publishers, but also the gamers if the big three play their cards right. Graphics technology is just at a more mature level this time around and this greatly reduces the need for any exotic hardware to try to push a machine ahead in any meaningful way. PC's have been able to push out Crysis graphics at 1080p resolution on a single card since the 9800 and we have come a LONG way since then while very very few developers have tried to push beyond that envelope with their games.

    The real story will be whether the console makers go for some overly convulated or invasive content protection. If MS and Sony don't watch it, they may just end up handing Nintendo another easy victory and it would be quite needless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skynet212 View Post
    Ok how i the hell do THEY know when MS plans to release their next console? $#@! for all we and THEM know MS could of had some crazy super secret advanced team building the next xbox 1 year after they released the 360. They have no idea when MS will launch.
    It's called looking at the reports, if there are expenses higher than usual on the R&D front, then it's safe to assume it's because MS is drawing upo a new box and make an estimated guess as to when that new hardware will be pushed out the door... There is no ''super secret'' research here, all expenses have to be made available for the investors.

    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Because unlike Microsoft, Sony lost a lot of money on the PS3. They need to make up that loss before moving on to the next generation.

    MS has been making money on the 360 since 08, they can easily launch the new xbox while continuing to make money off the 360. (while they work to make the next xbox profitable)
    This makes no sense. MS lost BILLIONS on the first xbox and NEVER made up for that loss before moving on to the next gen. As a matter of fact, they completely dropped support on it and still launched the 360 first.

    SONY can easily launch a PS4 and keep the PS3 out to recover it's own losses. They havent done it once, they did it 3 times!!! For SONY it's all a matter of not losing as much on the next hardware as they did with the PS3 and I believe they learn from that mistake.


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  15. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    I wish I could afford a gaming library like that lol

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    If Sony gets the PS4 out before the 720 i think it's a safe bet that they return to dominance next generation.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TEJ2025 View Post
    I wish I could afford a gaming library like that lol
    40 games? $#@! please

    All i can say is im pumped for next gen, everything 1080p, 3d, 60 fps, huge HDDs, better physics etc. etc.
    Unfortunately there are a few things that could spoil our fun (like usedgame locks, online only, further DLC ripoffs etc.).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast of Bourbon View Post
    40 games? $#@! please
    What's your current game tally?

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    Physical PS3 copies alone? Somewhere around 100 i think - too many to put em on display like in Matrix's pic which is kinda sad because then you could always enjoy the covers etc...
    Gotta count em all once im home.

    What do you guys think will be the price for the next PS?
    I think ~500bucks for the topmodel (1TB HDD) and maybe 449$ for the 500gb one?!

  21. #41
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    Personally, I'm probably like 120 - 125 games deep in physical copies and 71 in downloadable.

    Anyway, I mentioned this in the news post on the front page but Sony's delay was made 6 months longer due to the Bluray drive production issue. A year headstart is generally not a favorable position, 6 months would have been survivable with a decent ad campaign and a better job of informing consumers which they DID NOT do at all. In a tail of the tape the PS3 hands down would have beat the 36o, but FUD, disinformation and sony's on lack of foresight in locking down exclusives for early release is what hurt them.

    In regards to the next gen MS is only rushing to fight nintendo because they hate having anyone sell more than them (and as we've seen MS has no fear of dumping the 36o to jump on the next gen when it suits them so it's not like anyone should be surprised), Nintendo is only releasing when they are because the wii-moneyfountain is finally drying up and they need to release a new product to engage the cash flow, but if MS realizes they dont need to rush because the WIIU is just a current gen system with another fancy controller then they can take their time (I stand by my assertion that Nintendo is 5 years late to THIS generation their new system is just a slight upgrade from what we already have in the 36o and PS3) and thus Sony wouldnt have to rush either because the PS3 still has plenty of life left in it.

    There's the other problem in all this; Are people going to want to jump on a new system so soon when the current gen still feels so fresh? The WIIU faces the problem of trying to sell a new system to people who bought the WII due to it being half the price of it's competitors at the time and being sightly different with the fancy controller which they got tired up rather quickly (also the majority of Wii users aren't yet full fledged gamers and may be totally satified with the current wii especially if they arent really constantly buying new games for it or if they traded it in for a 36o with kinect or PS3 with Move due to them being technically better than the Wii). If the WIIU is nothing more than a 36o with Mario games then only the most hard core nintendo fans will buy it as they already have systems that play the same games nintendo is releaseing the WIIU in an effort to get. If you can play Call of Duty 18 on the PS3 or 36o just as well as the WIIU why bother getting it?

    Similarly the current systems are said by many to still have so much life left in them that the only the people with too much money burning a hole in their pockets and lazy developers are eager to see a new console generation. The next gen runs the risk of hitting the scene with a slow start because people aren't ready yet, In which case it would actually be BETTER for sony to wait 6 months this time around until people are more hungry. Take the time to evaluate what their PSN service can improve on rather than blindly chasing updates that people want "just because the other system has it" (which isn't a good reason) and spend time truly polishing the launch franchises that we all know have probably been in development for 2 years so that people can't complain that the "PS4 haz n0 gamez". Also it gives them time to find cost reduction options to keep the price of the system down if not below the competitors which we all know is important, another $500+ console is NOT going to sell well in this economy, so it's already better that they're using more off the shelf components this time which could keep the price in the 300-350 range. If the 72o hits at 400 to 450 the PS4 could potentially snipe them with a lower price and compete directly with the WIIU which, like I said, is a bit of a scatter shot effort by nintendo at this point for anyone other than the most serious of nintendo fans.

    That's my opinion of course, but it's a far better analysis than any of the "well known" analyists will have in the coming year.
    Last edited by Alpha2; 04-03-2012 at 13:03.
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  23. #42
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    Good post Alpha but im not sure they can really bring the price below 400 it would be an impressive feat though.
    I'd pay 600 again if they put alot of new tech into the PS4 to make it better then the competition but i bet they won't make that "mistake" again ( remember the launch outrage ).

    120 discs? dammit!

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    Quote Originally Posted by snooper71 View Post
    It's called looking at the reports, if there are expenses higher than usual on the R&D front, then it's safe to assume it's because MS is drawing upo a new box and make an estimated guess as to when that new hardware will be pushed out the door... There is no ''super secret'' research here, all expenses have to be made available for the investors.

    This makes no sense. MS lost BILLIONS on the first xbox and NEVER made up for that loss before moving on to the next gen. As a matter of fact, they completely dropped support on it and still launched the 360 first.

    SONY can easily launch a PS4 and keep the PS3 out to recover it's own losses. They havent done it once, they did it 3 times!!! For SONY it's all a matter of not losing as much on the next hardware as they did with the PS3 and I believe they learn from that mistake.
    A couple of things you fail to consider.

    #1 Microsoft used that money as an initial investment to get themselves into the market. And since they seem to be succeeding in the market, that investment can easily be written off, assuming they didn't make it back.

    #2 Which brings me to my second point that it is very likely that Microsoft has made/is on track to make that money back. (likely before the next xbox launches)

    We know they have been making money off of the 360 hardware since 2008. It is safe to assume they make money off of every kinect sold. We know microsoft makes at least a billion every year off of xbl (I think that's just subscriptions, but I'm not 1oo% sure) never mind games they publish/creates or fees charged for people to put their games/media content on the 360.

    So I'm fairly confident, MS's gaming division is better off that Sony's for the foreseeable future.

    Which brings me to Sony. I can't seem to find it, but I remember seeing a graph posted here with data up to 2010 (perhaps even 2011) that showed the gains/losses from sony's gaming division. From what I remember, when they started posting losses with the PS3, the numbers seemed to indicate that the losses wiped out all (if not more than) the gains (profits) sony made with the PS2. Sony has only just begun to profit off the ps3 since mid 2010. So they still have a long way to go before they can recoup a significant portion of their losses with the ps3 (nevermind the PS4 costs) before they can make a fiscally sound jump to the next generation.

    Depending on what they do with the PS4, they could be profitable from the hardware very soon, or go down the same road they did with the ps3.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beast of Bourbon View Post
    Physical PS3 copies alone? Somewhere around 100 i think - too many to put em on display like in Matrix's pic which is kinda sad because then you could always enjoy the covers etc...
    Gotta count em all once im home.

    What do you guys think will be the price for the next PS?
    I think ~500bucks for the topmodel (1TB HDD) and maybe 449$ for the 500gb one?!
    For the record, I pulled that picture off the internet to illustrate a point (people typically buy a console for its games). My gaming library for the current gen is about half that size.

    For the record sony would be very stupid if the ps4 crossed the $500 mark. I'll predict a $399.99-$499.99 launch price for the PS4. and $399.99 for the next xbox.

    I doubt the wii u will be more than $299.99.

    I've said it once, I'll say it again, I'm certain the the next xbox will launch in the latter half of 2013. The PS4 might also be able to make that date, but I'm leaning to a 2014 launch for it.

    And then we have the wii U launching this year.

    Nobody will be jumping the gun for anybody else. (not even sony, if they are smart)

    The wii U targets existing Wii owners that want HD gaming at prices simlar to the ps3 and 360, but with slightly upgraded tech (and therefore visuals). And perhaps those gamers too impatient to wait for the successors the 360/ps3 (very small part of the market).

    Some people will claim that this generation still has a long way to go, I disagree. We are starting to see a decline in games pushing the limits of the consoles (since they are almost tapping them out) this year. 2013 will only be worse for the current gen consoles since the wii U will have been on the market for a few months and MS should have launch details on the next xbox at e3 that year and sony will likely do a PS4 reveal.

    And them whenever sony launches the ps4, this generation is essentially over for core gamers. I think MS will keep prodcing the 360 till 2015, when it will really be showing its age against the next xbox and ps4, and its market viability will pretty much be over. (I also think kinect 2.0 will be launched in 2015, 2016 at the latest).

    Finally the idea that the PS4 will undercut the next xbox in price at launch is laughable. Even if sony takes the most conservative approach and makes the ps4 and evolutionary change over the ps3 hardware, I still think they will try to make their console the fastest/most powerful in some way which will drive up costs. They also will not have the blu ray advantage anymore either.

    I'm fairly certain MS will design their next xbox so that they can achieve profitability on the hardware asap. (within 2 years if possible, unlike the 3 it took for the 360). Also the next xbox design will likely still be simpler than the PS4. Since I expect it to be an evolutionary design over the 360 (faster power pc cpu, more cores, current gpu, more RAM/Video memory) so there won't be much to drive up production costs. (and therefore launch price).

    Though it will be interesting to see if sony makes the psn good enough so that they could possibly start charging for it.

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  26. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    A couple of things you fail to consider.

    #1 Microsoft used that money as an initial investment to get themselves into the market. And since they seem to be succeeding in the market, that investment can easily be written off, assuming they didn't make it back.

    #2 Which brings me to my second point that it is very likely that Microsoft has made/is on track to make that money back. (likely before the next xbox launches)

    We know they have been making money off of the 360 hardware since 2008. It is safe to assume they make money off of every kinect sold. We know microsoft makes at least a billion every year off of xbl (I think that's just subscriptions, but I'm not 1oo% sure) never mind games they publish/creates or fees charged for people to put their games/media content on the 360.

    So I'm fairly confident, MS's gaming division is better off that Sony's for the foreseeable future.

    Which brings me to Sony. I can't seem to find it, but I remember seeing a graph posted here with data up to 2010 (perhaps even 2011) that showed the gains/losses from sony's gaming division. From what I remember, when they started posting losses with the PS3, the numbers seemed to indicate that the losses wiped out all (if not more than) the gains (profits) sony made with the PS2. Sony has only just begun to profit off the ps3 since mid 2010. So they still have a long way to go before they can recoup a significant portion of their losses with the ps3 (nevermind the PS4 costs) before they can make a fiscally sound jump to the next generation.

    Depending on what they do with the PS4, they could be profitable from the hardware very soon, or go down the same road they did with the ps3.




    For the record, I pulled that picture off the internet to illustrate a point (people typically buy a console for its games). My gaming library for the current gen is about half that size.

    For the record sony would be very stupid if the ps4 crossed the $500 mark. I'll predict a $399.99-$499.99 launch price for the PS4. and $399.99 for the next xbox.

    I doubt the wii u will be more than $299.99.

    I've said it once, I'll say it again, I'm certain the the next xbox will launch in the latter half of 2013. The PS4 might also be able to make that date, but I'm leaning to a 2014 launch for it.

    And then we have the wii U launching this year.

    Nobody will be jumping the gun for anybody else. (not even sony, if they are smart)

    The wii U targets existing Wii owners that want HD gaming at prices simlar to the ps3 and 360, but with slightly upgraded tech (and therefore visuals). And perhaps those gamers too impatient to wait for the successors the 360/ps3 (very small part of the market).

    Some people will claim that this generation still has a long way to go, I disagree. We are starting to see a decline in games pushing the limits of the consoles (since they are almost tapping them out) this year. 2013 will only be worse for the current gen consoles since the wii U will have been on the market for a few months and MS should have launch details on the next xbox at e3 that year and sony will likely do a PS4 reveal.

    And them whenever sony launches the ps4, this generation is essentially over for core gamers. I think MS will keep prodcing the 360 till 2015, when it will really be showing its age against the next xbox and ps4, and its market viability will pretty much be over. (I also think kinect 2.0 will be launched in 2015, 2016 at the latest).

    Finally the idea that the PS4 will undercut the next xbox in price at launch is laughable. Even if sony takes the most conservative approach and makes the ps4 and evolutionary change over the ps3 hardware, I still think they will try to make their console the fastest/most powerful in some way which will drive up costs. They also will not have the blu ray advantage anymore either.

    I'm fairly certain MS will design their next xbox so that they can achieve profitability on the hardware asap. (within 2 years if possible, unlike the 3 it took for the 360). Also the next xbox design will likely still be simpler than the PS4. Since I expect it to be an evolutionary design over the 360 (faster power pc cpu, more cores, current gpu, more RAM/Video memory) so there won't be much to drive up production costs. (and therefore launch price).

    Though it will be interesting to see if sony makes the psn good enough so that they could possibly start charging for it.
    Very well thought out post.

    I'm interested in how Sony improve PSN/SEN, cause there's no denying it is definitely one of the top things that should be on their mind. PSN/SEN is so far behind XBL no one can deny that. I think they would be mad not to improve the service enough to start charging a monthly subscription.

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    Sony is still $1.3 billion on the plus side since they entered the console market. MS is still -$7 billion to the negative side since they entered the console market. Nintendo is still about $35 billion to the plus side since they entered the console market.

    Yes, MS has been having positive balances since 2008 but it will be several years before they reach break-even. Sony has had two positive balance years with the PS3, that is what Kaz was recognized after taking over from Kutaragi, but they are probably still over $2 billion negative, so far. A really strong 2012 for the PS3 can begin to wipe out the negative balance quickly and turn into a profit in 2013. This can happen if a new SKU PS3 (the slimmer slim) comes out at the magic $199 pricepoint.

    Sony is much better poised to finalize a design and configuration for a next generation videogame console than MS is. There is no radical departure from the base configuration due to unproven technologies. The supply and manufacturing line is much more streamlined than it was in 2005.

    Also, this is the huge question that all the web pundits seem to be avoiding. Where is MS going to get launch titles? Last time I looked, the PS4 could expect a dozen launch titles from 1st party studios and maybe 4 or 5 from 3rd party. Even projecting this hypothetical launch to 2014, that leaves MS about two years to create a launch library of next gen games. Of course, the 4 or 5 from 3rd party will be multi-plat but where exactly does this magic library of 1st party titles from MS come from or is there really a plan to buy a dozen 2nd party exclusives for their next gen launch?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligmerk View Post
    Sony is still $1.3 billion on the plus side since they entered the console market. MS is still -$7 billion to the negative side since they entered the console market. Nintendo is still about $35 billion to the plus side since they entered the console market.

    Yes, MS has been having positive balances since 2008 but it will be several years before they reach break-even. Sony has had two positive balance years with the PS3, that is what Kaz was recognized after taking over from Kutaragi, but they are probably still over $2 billion negative, so far. A really strong 2012 for the PS3 can begin to wipe out the negative balance quickly and turn into a profit in 2013. This can happen if a new SKU PS3 (the slimmer slim) comes out at the magic $199 pricepoint.

    Sony is much better poised to finalize a design and configuration for a next generation videogame console than MS is. There is no radical departure from the base configuration due to unproven technologies. The supply and manufacturing line is much more streamlined than it was in 2005.

    Also, this is the huge question that all the web pundits seem to be avoiding. Where is MS going to get launch titles? Last time I looked, the PS4 could expect a dozen launch titles from 1st party studios and maybe 4 or 5 from 3rd party. Even projecting this hypothetical launch to 2014, that leaves MS about two years to create a launch library of next gen games. Of course, the 4 or 5 from 3rd party will be multi-plat but where exactly does this magic library of 1st party titles from MS come from or is there really a plan to buy a dozen 2nd party exclusives for their next gen launch?
    Where did you get the info from in the first paragraph?

    As for the last paragraph, they will have Halo for sure (seeing as a new trilogy was announced), a Forza, maybe a Fable game. MS will have to rely heavily on 3rd party support again next gen, but if they have the services and features then this will once again be a nice strategy that works out nicely...for them. I can't see there being any 3rd party console exclusives next gen. Bungie, Epic, Insomniac, Kojima Products, all studios that have generally been associated with certain consoles are now heading off from 2nd party waters into the bigger 3rd party sea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost-Rhayne View Post
    Where did you get the info from in the first paragraph?

    As for the last paragraph, they will have Halo for sure (seeing as a new trilogy was announced), a Forza, maybe a Fable game. MS will have to rely heavily on 3rd party support again next gen, but if they have the services and features then this will once again be a nice strategy that works out nicely...for them. I can't see there being any 3rd party console exclusives next gen. Bungie, Epic, Insomniac, Kojima Products, all studios that have generally been associated with certain consoles are now heading off from 2nd party waters into the bigger 3rd party sea.
    I agree, Microsoft may bring one or two new IP's to the start of next gen, but I agree they will rely heavily on 3rd party. Not a bad strategy, worked for them so far.

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    Microsoft was in the process of beefing up its first party studios not too long ago, starting a studio in Vancouver if I remember correctly as just an example, as well as other places. They are presumably getting geared up for next gen in various ways. Even though they were established to be Kinect centered studios it doesn't mean that the games can't be centered on the core and use Kinect as an added functionality.


    Currently playing? Skyrim (360). White Knight Chronicles (PS3). Majoras Mask (Wii). Final Fanasy VII (PS2). Just completed? Final Fantasy VI.

  32. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligmerk View Post
    Sony is still $1.3 billion on the plus side since they entered the console market. MS is still -$7 billion to the negative side since they entered the console market. Nintendo is still about $35 billion to the plus side since they entered the console market.

    Yes, MS has been having positive balances since 2008 but it will be several years before they reach break-even. Sony has had two positive balance years with the PS3, that is what Kaz was recognized after taking over from Kutaragi, but they are probably still over $2 billion negative, so far. A really strong 2012 for the PS3 can begin to wipe out the negative balance quickly and turn into a profit in 2013. This can happen if a new SKU PS3 (the slimmer slim) comes out at the magic $199 pricepoint.

    Sony is much better poised to finalize a design and configuration for a next generation videogame console than MS is. There is no radical departure from the base configuration due to unproven technologies. The supply and manufacturing line is much more streamlined than it was in 2005.

    Also, this is the huge question that all the web pundits seem to be avoiding. Where is MS going to get launch titles? Last time I looked, the PS4 could expect a dozen launch titles from 1st party studios and maybe 4 or 5 from 3rd party. Even projecting this hypothetical launch to 2014, that leaves MS about two years to create a launch library of next gen games. Of course, the 4 or 5 from 3rd party will be multi-plat but where exactly does this magic library of 1st party titles from MS come from or is there really a plan to buy a dozen 2nd party exclusives for their next gen launch?
    Sorry, but the whole "sony is in a better position then ms to design a new console" is a load of rubbish.

    What complex route is there for MS to take? I outlines the likely changes that will be made with the next xbox, hardly the complex changes you seem to be insinuating.

    If anything sony is more likely to take a more risky liberal approach. MS knows what they need to do to be successful, they have no need to deviate from that strategy.

    As for games, that's the beauty of the design of the 360 and the next xbox. I think the biggest challenge developers will have on the next xbox will be making use of the power of the GPU. And considering the conventional design that is being suggested lately, that shouldn't be much of a challenge after all.

    So the way I see it outside of MS 1st party studios and contracts they have with 3rd parties for games/IP's they can easily have thrid party support from the PC side (easy ports), games transitioning from the 360 to the nex xbox and perhaps even games developed for the wii u (seem like both consoles will have certain similarities).

    I don't see any problems with MS and games at launch, especially since they are launching the next xbox properly this time (as opposed the throwing the xbox in the trash can and rushing to launch the 360) so I think dev's will have plenty of time to become properly acquainted with the next xbox hardware.

    It also helps that 2013 isn't looking so hot for games. (atm, though that could change after E3)

  33. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedos View Post
    Microsoft was in the process of beefing up its first party studios not too long ago, starting a studio in Vancouver if I remember correctly as just an example, as well as other places. They are presumably getting geared up for next gen in various ways. Even though they were established to be Kinect centered studios it doesn't mean that the games can't be centered on the core and use Kinect as an added functionality.
    It takes 3 years to create a good game, less than 2 years and it is rushed. A studio just starting up doesn't indicate the game development there takes a step jump. Yes, there have been a couple new MS studios but the old fantasy that PC games would be easily ported to the console has been said since the original xbox, didn't happen.

    In fact, since those early delusions, MS has shrunk its PC gaming to almost nothing, trying various strange feeble attempts at resurrection here and there but not really hitting the mark. Latest major example is MS Flight Simulator. After dismantling a studio that was over 20 years old, it reconstructs the flight sim studio several years later, this time in a free-to-play persistent online version that is robber baron like in DLC to make the game actually playable. This is the way they are going.

    The only way MS "owned" 3rd party was only through hyping Halo and Gears to death, then when that started tapering off, to claim "ownage" of Call of Duty. This isn't going to work this next time around.
    Pacing in wait of Sony's imminent DOOM!...since 2006
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