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  1. #26
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    Yea, you can't really put a mileage limit on new vehicles...as long as the miles is reasonable.

    I mean, here dealerships will exchange(trade vehicles) and those vehicles will be driven to their new respective dealerships and that can be upwards of a hour plus away...essentially a distance that paying for freight/hauled would substantially outweigh just driving to get it. That can add some quick miles to it.

    Just make ure the vehicle is in proper condition and has no previous owner.

    It should be warranted from the mileage you get it isn't it?


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    If I could afford new car every 3 years and afford the depreciation when I sell it on I would.


    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelbo1 View Post
    If you have the money then why not ? Also new cars tend to have pretty decent finance options that a lot of second hand dealers cant offer you.
    Finance companies do the finance, rarely do dealerships do finance. At the end of the day you have to pay what the car is worth. Also you can buy used cars from new car dealership
    Last edited by keefy; 04-08-2012 at 17:28.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    The first year depreciation can be 5k or more depending on manufacturer and model.
    Ford Focus new 2012 base model is 14k second hand 2011 9k

    UK depreciation rates are so high because of VAT added to new car sales, not because the car itself is depreciating.

    Same Ford Focus in the US is $16,500, and typical used price for a 2011 Ford Focus is $13,000+ if you buy one from a car rental fleet with around 20,000 miles on it.

    If you're not looking at car rental fleet vehicles then the price difference between brand new and used is so small it's no longer worth buying used in the US. For example, a typical price on a 2011 Mustang is $21,000 with 30,000 miles on it and only 6,000 miles left on the warranty, and the MSRP on a brand new 2013 Mustang is $23,300. Considering the warranty and the fact that you'll get better financing rates on the new car it makes much more economic sense to buy new.

    That was a big issue I ran into when I bought my Mustang GT. I looked at used hoping to save a bit of money, but the used cars were either priced nearly the same as new, or had so many miles on them that I wouldn't buy it. $25,000+ for a 2007 Mustang GT with 60,000 miles, or $28,000 for a 2012 GT with 17 miles on it? One of my coworkers is looking to buy a new truck and is running into the same problem. To get any significant savings in money he would have to take a truck with nearly 100,000 miles already on it.





    Now, as for what actually qualifies as a "new" car, in the US a car is "new" until it has been issued a title by the DMV. The number of miles on it is irrelevent, it could have 10,000 miles and still be considered a new car as long as it's never been sold by the dealership and had a title issued to the buyer.

    Likewise, if someone buys a car with only 10 miles on it, drives it 1 mile home, parks in in their garage for a month and then returns it to the dealership, it's a used car with only 12 miles on it.
    Last edited by Completely Average; 04-09-2012 at 05:22.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post

    That was a big issue I ran into when I bought my Mustang GT. I looked at used hoping to save a bit of money, but the used cars were either priced nearly the same as new, or had so many miles on them that I wouldn't buy it. $25,000+ for a 2007 Mustang GT with 60,000 miles, or $28,000 for a 2012 GT with 17 miles on it? One of my coworkers is looking to buy a new truck and is running into the same problem. To get any significant savings in money he would have to take a truck with nearly 100,000 miles already on it
    Dealers aren't the only way to go, you know. Private sellers have deals too.

    My mother is eyeing a 2007 Ford Focus with very little miles on it. It was owned by an old lady who passed away and she didn't drive it much. My mother is hoping to take over the payments. We don't know the exact mileage, but we know for sure it's probably less than 50,000 on it. My mother's payments would be around $300 a month.

    Any way, you don't have to go with a dealership to get a good car. You can buy from a private seller with a certified pre owned car.

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    On the mileage, like folks have pointed out, untitled cars are “new”, however, I would be wary of a new vehicle with excessive miles. Just because one of the perks of a new car is _you_ know the history, how it was driven, broken in, serviced for the first XXX miles.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    You can buy from a private seller with a certified pre owned car.

    FWIW, CPOs aren’t usually something done through a private seller purchase. CPOs are typically dealer trade-ins, that are then sold back through the certifying dealer. I agree that CPO cars can be an excellent value, especially with some manufacturers extending the CPO warranty longer than the original OEM warranty duration.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    Dealers aren't the only way to go, you know. Private sellers have deals too.
    But private sellers do not have financing options which makes it difficult to buy a good car, unless you just happen to have $15,000+ in cash lying around.


    Any way, you don't have to go with a dealership to get a good car. You can buy from a private seller with a certified pre owned car.
    Private seller with a CERTIFIED pre-owned car? The only way a pre-owned car can be certified is if a dealership inspection and maintenance is done and for some crazy reason the dealership decides to grant certification to a car they aren't going to sell. Basically, there is no such thing as a Certified used car from a private seller. Any "Certification" they may have does not extend to you and will not be honored by dealerships.

    Private sellers do offer deals sometimes, but you'll get no warranty and no financing. You buy it as-is, and either pay for it cash or do the footwork to provide your own financing.

    And even then private sellers typically price their cars very close to dealership prices. Almost no one offers to sell you a $10,000 car for only $7,000. If the car is worth $10,000, it's probably going to cost you that regardless of where you buy it.






    And out of curiosity, how do you "take over payments" on a 6 year old car? Ford doesn't give 7 year loans on the Focus, so the one your mom is looking at should be paid off by now. And for the record, with less than 50k miles on a 2007 Focus, it's still worth $12,000. Only $4,000 less than a brand new one, even though it's 5+ years old, out of warranty, and may have 50k or more miles on it.
    Last edited by Completely Average; 04-09-2012 at 17:07.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    But private sellers do not have financing options which makes it difficult to buy a good car, unless you just happen to have $15,000+ in cash lying around.




    Private seller with a CERTIFIED pre-owned car? The only way a pre-owned car can be certified is if a dealership inspection and maintenance is done and for some crazy reason the dealership decides to grant certification to a car they aren't going to sell. Basically, there is no such thing as a Certified used car from a private seller. Any "Certification" they may have does not extend to you and will not be honored by dealerships.

    Private sellers do offer deals sometimes, but you'll get no warranty and no financing. You buy it as-is, and either pay for it cash or do the footwork to provide your own financing.

    And even then private sellers typically price their cars very close to dealership prices. Almost no one offers to sell you a $10,000 car for only $7,000. If the car is worth $10,000, it's probably going to cost you that regardless of where you buy it.






    And out of curiosity, how do you "take over payments" on a 6 year old car? Ford doesn't give 7 year loans on the Focus, so the one your mom is looking at should be paid off by now. And for the record, with less than 50k miles on a 2007 Focus, it's still worth $12,000. Only $4,000 less than a brand new one, even though it's 5+ years old, out of warranty, and may have 50k or more miles on it.

    That is true, you must have cash money. However, one advantage to paying for cars and EVERYTHING cash money is no interest. You don't have to pay all that interest and it doesn't matter what kind of credit you have if you buy cash money.

    I admit I did not know that only dealers have cars that are certified pre owned. I see cars that are certified pre owned, but I guess I didn't look close enough to see that it was a dealer.

    There's somethig I want to ask too, out of curiousity. You say that private sellers will have the same prices as dealers, right? Then why do sites like kelly blue book have three different prices, trade in, private party and dealer. In other words, why are there two different prices for dealers and private party when looking at a car?

    The last paragraph, you most certainly have a lot of points. I do not know and my mother has yet to talk to the old lady's relatives just yet. You said Ford doesn't finance, so what if she got financing through a bank or something? I admit I do not know. I do know another person with a 2007 Honda Accord and she's still making payments on it.

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    If it has miles on it then it's not a new car. It's like new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    That is true, you must have cash money. However, one advantage to paying for cars and EVERYTHING cash money is no interest. You don't have to pay all that interest and it doesn't matter what kind of credit you have if you buy cash money.
    Absolutely, but most people don't finance for the fun of it, they finance because they can't afford to pay for the car in cash.


    I admit I did not know that only dealers have cars that are certified pre owned. I see cars that are certified pre owned, but I guess I didn't look close enough to see that it was a dealer.
    Yes, Certified Pre-Owned cars are all sold through dealerships. The factory has a set standard that the car must meet, and a factory trained technician must perform the inspection and any required maintenance before it can be granted certification. Certified Pre-Owned cars are typically the only used cars with a warranty.

    There's somethig I want to ask too, out of curiousity. You say that private sellers will have the same prices as dealers, right? Then why do sites like kelly blue book have three different prices, trade in, private party and dealer. In other words, why are there two different prices for dealers and private party when looking at a car?
    Think of the dealership price as a "Sticker price". You know walking onto the dealership lot that they'll cut a deal on the car. Most dealership sticker prices are 10%-20% higher than what they'll actually take.

    Private sellers will have a bit of flexibility in their pricing as well, but it's usually only a few hundred dollars less than their asking price. You would be extremely lucky to walk up to a private seller with a $15,000 car and talk them down to $14,000, talking them down to $12-$13,000 like you could a dealership would be near impossible.

    The last paragraph, you most certainly have a lot of points. I do not know and my mother has yet to talk to the old lady's relatives just yet. You said Ford doesn't finance, so what if she got financing through a bank or something? I admit I do not know. I do know another person with a 2007 Honda Accord and she's still making payments on it.
    If the car is in good condition, low miles, and is not overpriced then your mom could always go to a bank or credit union and get her own financing, provided her credit is good enough. She'll obviously have to use the car as collateral, but it's not really difficult to get outside financing, it's just time consuming and inconvenient.

    And Ford does do 7 year loans on some cars, just not the Focus. How long they are willing to provide financing depends on the price of the car, so for example, a $17k Focus it would be 5 years, a $25k Mustang it would be 6 years, and if you bought a $30k+ Ford you could get a 7 year loan. I'm not sure on the exact cut off points, but generally the more the car costs the longer they are willing to stretch out the loan payments. They wouldn't want to do 7 years on a $14k Fiesta for instance because the monthly payments would be less than $175 per month.

    When we got my wife her 05 Camry the maximum loan we could get was 6 years. When I bought my Mustang GT I was offered up to 7 years, but it costs almost $10k more than the Camry did. A family friend recently bought their daughter a base model 11 Civic for graduation, and they could only go up to 5 years.

    So, the length of the loan is dependent on the value of the car. A well equipped Accord can easily run over $25k where a similarly equipped Focus would be around $18k.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I admit I did not know that only dealers have cars that are certified pre owned. I see cars that are certified pre owned, but I guess I didn't look close enough to see that it was a dealer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Yes, Certified Pre-Owned cars are all sold through dealerships. The factory has a set standard that the car must meet, and a factory trained technician must perform the inspection and any required maintenance before it can be granted certification. Certified Pre-Owned cars are typically the only used cars with a warranty.
    Just as an FYI...

    [At least] Some manufacturers offer a CPO service for cars bought outside the dealer channel. BMW for example, will certify a car, regardless of the purchase point, as long as it qualifies (age/mileage) and you’re willing to pay for any potential certification issues. I’ve heard as low as the $500 area (from a recent M3 purchase a board member posted about), to thousands (another member purchased a E92 with new-ish tires, but they weren’t “to spec” so CPO required a new set ... he at least sold the old ones for a decent offset). Shopping M3s so I put a little research into this as an option for a private seller purchase.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    UK depreciation rates are so high because of VAT added to new car sales, not because the car itself is depreciating.

    Same Ford Focus in the US is $16,500, and typical used price for a 2011 Ford Focus is $13,000+ if you buy one from a car rental fleet with around 20,000 miles on it.

    If you're not looking at car rental fleet vehicles then the price difference between brand new and used is so small it's no longer worth buying used in the US. For example, a typical price on a 2011 Mustang is $21,000 with 30,000 miles on it and only 6,000 miles left on the warranty, and the MSRP on a brand new 2013 Mustang is $23,300. Considering the warranty and the fact that you'll get better financing rates on the new car it makes much more economic sense to buy new.

    That was a big issue I ran into when I bought my Mustang GT. I looked at used hoping to save a bit of money, but the used cars were either priced nearly the same as new, or had so many miles on them that I wouldn't buy it. $25,000+ for a 2007 Mustang GT with 60,000 miles, or $28,000 for a 2012 GT with 17 miles on it? One of my coworkers is looking to buy a new truck and is running into the same problem. To get any significant savings in money he would have to take a truck with nearly 100,000 miles already on it.





    Now, as for what actually qualifies as a "new" car, in the US a car is "new" until it has been issued a title by the DMV. The number of miles on it is irrelevent, it could have 10,000 miles and still be considered a new car as long as it's never been sold by the dealership and had a title issued to the buyer.

    Likewise, if someone buys a car with only 10 miles on it, drives it 1 mile home, parks in in their garage for a month and then returns it to the dealership, it's a used car with only 12 miles on it.
    We don't take the VAT off of second hand cars then flog it, its worth what people will pay and if there is alot of th car you are selling it drives the price down, my guess is Focus ae not as popular as they are here in UK.
    Last edited by keefy; 04-10-2012 at 17:15.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Absolutely, but most people don't finance for the fun of it, they finance because they can't afford to pay for the car in cash.
    I don't think it's whether they can afford it, it's because they don't want to wait. They pay payments + interest so they can have it now. If you were to save $400 a month you could buy a good car with cash money. It's a matter of saving. Drive a $1200 car and save up, then buy you a $5000 car, save up some more and trade in the previous car, drive off the lot with a $10000 car.

    I learned this from Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover.

    Yes, Certified Pre-Owned cars are all sold through dealerships. The factory has a set standard that the car
    must meet, and a factory trained technician must perform the inspection and any required maintenance before it can be granted certification. Certified Pre-Owned cars are typically the only used cars with a warranty.
    Okay, that makes good sense.

    Think of the dealership price as a "Sticker price". You know walking onto the dealership lot that they'll cut a deal on the car. Most dealership sticker prices are 10%-20% higher than what they'll actually take.

    Private sellers will have a bit of flexibility in their pricing as well, but it's usually only a few hundred dollars less than their asking price. You would be extremely lucky to walk up to a private seller with a $15,000 car and talk them down to $14,000, talking them down to $12-$13,000 like you could a dealership would be near impossible.
    Around here at least, it's the opposite. It's the private seller you can negotiate with.

    When I bought my Mazda, I bought it from a private seller. The man also had a 2001 Mitsubishi Galant for sale. My father talked him down and my brother in law drove off with it for only $400. Now, there was an issue with the title, but it still a great car. Very few miles on it.

    If the car is in good condition, low miles, and is not overpriced then your mom could always go to a bank or credit union and get her own financing, provided her credit is good enough. She'll obviously have to use the car as collateral, but it's not really difficult to get outside financing, it's just time consuming and inconvenient.

    And Ford does do 7 year loans on some cars, just not the Focus. How long they are willing to provide financing depends on the price of the car, so for example, a $17k Focus it would be 5 years, a $25k Mustang it would be 6 years, and if you bought a $30k+ Ford you could get a 7 year loan. I'm not sure on the exact cut off points, but generally the more the car costs the longer they are willing to stretch out the loan payments. They wouldn't want to do 7 years on a $14k Fiesta for instance because the monthly payments would be less than $175 per month.

    When we got my wife her 05 Camry the maximum loan we could get was 6 years. When I bought my Mustang GT I was offered up to 7 years, but it costs almost $10k more than the Camry did. A family friend recently bought their daughter a base model 11 Civic for graduation, and they could only go up to 5 years.

    So, the length of the loan is dependent on the value of the car. A well equipped Accord can easily run over $25k where a similarly equipped Focus would be around $18k.
    Well, we'll find out if she can even get it soon. I hope so, it's probably a good gas saver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I don't think it's whether they can afford it, it's because they don't want to wait. They pay payments + interest so they can have it now. If you were to save $400 a month you could buy a good car with cash money. It's a matter of saving. Drive a $1200 car and save up, then buy you a $5000 car, save up some more and trade in the previous car, drive off the lot with a $10000 car.
    But when your job that you must show up at to get money to save is 20 miles away with no easy public transportation to us, how do you get to your job if you don't have a car?

    The idea of "just save" is all fine and dandy, as long as you overlook the minor point that you need the car to get to work, and you can't save if you don't have the car NOW.

    I learned this from Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover.
    Yeah, well, remember that he makes his money by convincing other people that his system of making money will work for them.

    The problem is that nearly 50% of Americans make less than $25k per year, and few can afford to go 4-5 years of saving without owning a car. Saving for a new car is easy if you're making enough to buy a Mercedes, not so easy if you're eating ramen noodles because you can't afford a pizza.



    Around here at least, it's the opposite. It's the private seller you can negotiate with.

    When I bought my Mazda, I bought it from a private seller. The man also had a 2001 Mitsubishi Galant for sale. My father talked him down and my brother in law drove off with it for only $400. Now, there was an issue with the title, but it still a great car. Very few miles on it.
    And that issue with the title was what exactly?

    It wouldn't by chance have been totalled out at one point, and rebuilt with a salvage title, would it? That would certainly explain the willingness to sell low.
    Last edited by Completely Average; 04-11-2012 at 02:45.

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    EDIT: Sorry for the double post. Crazy web page.

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    For me? Less than 1 mile. After a mile, I consider it used and not worth half the price they're trying to sell it for. New to me means no one's used it... ever. The whole concept of mileage implies that it's not new. We can argue titles, invoices and other topics til we're blue in the face but to me, a product is new if and only if it's never been used prior to me being in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    But when your job that you must show up at to get money to save is 20 miles away with no easy public transportation to us, how do you get to your job if you don't have a car?

    The idea of "just save" is all fine and dandy, as long as you overlook the minor point that you need the car to get to work, and you can't save if you don't have the car NOW.



    Yeah, well, remember that he makes his money by convincing other people that his system of making money will work for them.

    The problem is that nearly 50% of Americans make less than $25k per year, and few can afford to go 4-5 years of saving without owning a car. Saving for a new car is easy if you're making enough to buy a Mercedes, not so easy if you're eating ramen noodles because you can't afford a pizza.





    And that issue with the title was what exactly?

    It wouldn't by chance have been totalled out at one point, and rebuilt with a salvage title, would it? That would certainly explain the willingness to sell low.
    You make good points.

    As for the 2001 Galant, it was weird. It was something weird going on with the title and my brother in law could never get a title to it. It's like the title had to be remade or something. The car didn't last long though, because someone he knew wrecked it and totaled it out.

    I don't think it was a salvage title, I'm thinking it may have been worse than that.

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