[UPDATE] Microsoft (Xbox) vs Motorola

[Fijiandoce]

Original Post

Xbox patent ruling favours Motorola over Microsoft



Microsoft has suffered a setback in a patent row over technologies used by its Xbox 360 games console.
A judge at the US International Trade Commission has ruled that the firm infringed four patents owned by Motorola Mobility.
The full commission will review the judgement in August.
If the final ruling goes against Microsoft and it does not settle, Motorola could theoretically force it to halt imports of the Xbox to the US.
The claims relate to technologies involved in the H.264 video compression standard and wi-fi connectivity.

Licensing fees

This is just one of several cases involving about 50 intellectual properties that the smartphone maker says Microsoft should have licensed.
Microsoft has said that if it met all of Motorola's demands it would face an annual bill of $4bn (£2.5bn).
Motorola - which is in the process of being taken over by Google - disputes the figure.
A spokesman for Motorola said: "Microsoft continues to infringe Motorola Mobility's patent portfolio, and we remain confident in our position."
However, Microsoft signalled it planned to fight on, saying: "We remain confident the commission will ultimately rule in Microsoft's favour."

'Essential' innovations

Patent consultant Florian Mueller, who advises Microsoft, noted on his blog that three of the four disputed patents involved Frand-type technologies.
These are inventions recognised as being essential to an industry standard. In other words, Microsoft could not offer wi-fi or the ability to play H.264 videos without using them.
Such patents must be offered under "fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory terms".
At the start of April, the European Commission said that it had launched two investigations into whether Motorola's efforts to enforce its Frand-type innovations amounted to "an abuse of a dominant market position".

German ban

The next significant ruling involving the two firms is due on 2 May from a court in Mannheim, Germany.
It will decide whether Motorola should be allowed to order a ban on the distribution of Windows 7, Windows Media Payer and the Xbox console in the country because of the H.264 patents dispute.
Microsoft has already moved its European software distribution centre from Germany to the Netherlands to minimise potential disruption.
However, a US court has ruled that Motorola must not enforce such a ban until a Washington-based judge considers evidence about the company's Frand-related behaviour. A hearing is scheduled for 7 May.

Source

for those who skimmed
if Microsoft lose
£2.5bn in potential licence fees
and a potential ban of 360 imports to the US

this will be a blow to the end of the 360's life cycle and possibly the birth of the next Xbox. Microsoft are in some deep water atm. they can only hope to WIN outright. anything other will be considered a loss, as these cost will not be felt by microsoft but by us.

as a side note, expect these dealios to linger for a long time. not just for Microsoft, but Sony and other manufacturers as well as they[patent holders] try to consolidate the monies!

Update:

Motorola wins Xbox and Windows 7 ban in Germany


Microsoft could be forced to recall and destroy its products if Motorola enforces the injunction

Motorola Mobility has been granted an injunction against the distribution of key Microsoft products in Germany.

The sales ban covers the Xbox 360 games console, Windows 7 system software, Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player.
It follows a ruling that Microsoft had infringed two patents necessary to offer H.264 video coding and playback.
A US court has banned Motorola from enforcing the action until it considers the matter next week.
The handset maker is in the process of being taken over by Google.

Appeal

This is just one of several cases involving about 50 intellectual properties that the smartphone maker has claimed that Microsoft should have licensed.
Microsoft has said that if it met all of Motorola's demands it would face an annual bill of $4bn (£2.5bn). Motorola disputes the figure.
A statement from Motorola said: "We are pleased that the Mannheim Court found that Microsoft products infringe Motorola Mobility's intellectual property. As a path forward, we remain open to resolving this matter. Fair compensation is all that we have been seeking for our intellectual property."

Microsoft said it planned to appeal the German ruling.
"This is one step in a long process, and we are confident that Motorola will eventually be held to its promise to make its standard essential patents available on fair and reasonable terms for the benefit of consumers who enjoy video on the web," a spokesman said.
"Motorola is prohibited from acting on today's decision, and our business in Germany will continue as usual while we appeal this decision and pursue the fundamental issue of Motorola's broken promise."

Source

[Ghost-Rhayne]

Yikes...$4bn is a LOT of money.

[Dennis Dyack]

This patent stuff is out of control. Apple and Samsung are three biggest offenders but Motorola, Sony and MS have been in some battles as well. They are use each others technology so why not call it a wash.



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[keefy]

Not jsut xbox windows uses h264 its in ie9 as well as the media player maybe even some windows phones.

[Fijiandoce]

Microsoft could be forced to recall and destroy its products if Motorola enforces the injunction

Europe seems to be getting worse for Microsoft. even more so if Motorola enforce the ruling

[Natalie88]

Poor ol' Germany. The majority of videos on youtube are banned too due to infringement. Motorola are getting a bit out of hand with their copyright protection.

[mooninites]

The patent laws are so out of control, they should really be fixing that.

Really sucks for Microsoft but i guess they should have known if they were infringing a patent.


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[Fijiandoce]

Poor ol' Germany. The majority of videos on youtube are banned too due to infringement. Suxx to be them!

Not just Germany. Motorola could have the right to stop imports of xbox 360's into america. the US courts will review the matter next week.
i doubt they'd do it however, they dont compete with them for anything. odds are they just want some monies coz samsung been stealing all theirs

[Sub-stance1]

Not the first time stuff like this has happened and won't be the last. I'm sure MS will be fine regardless of how this ends. Now we know why MS bought Canesta.

[Morganator]

This is what happens when corporations lobby for "god-given forever and ever rights" in regards to patents and copyright laws. They have no one to blame but themselves. Microsoft is no exception to this either. I think what's in order is a complete rework and reboot of the patent and copyright systems. Corporations should not have full "god-given forever and ever rights" to their patents and copyrights for more than a two year span.

[mankind]

Xbox 360 Now Banned In Germany

According to the BBC, the Xbox 360 has been banned in Germany – at least in theory – although it’s unlikely anything will happen immediately, and Microsoft are obviously to appeal.
The site says that an injunction against the distribution of certain Microsoft products in Germany was just granted to Motorola Mobility.
“The sales ban covers the Xbox 360 games console, Windows 7 system software, Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player,” it says, citing two alleged patent infringements that are needed to offer H.264 video playback.
“A US court has banned Motorola from enforcing the action until it considers the matter next week,” the BBC goes on to say.
“Motorola is prohibited from acting on today’s decision, and our business in Germany will continue as usual while we appeal this decision and pursue the fundamental issue of Motorola’s broken promise,” said a spokesperson for Microsoft.
More here.

http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2012/05/...ed-in-germany/

[Dennis Dyack]

This is what happens when corporations lobby for "god-given forever and ever rights" in regards to patents and copyright laws. They have no one to blame but themselves. Microsoft is no exception to this either. I think what's in order is a complete rework and reboot of the patent and copyright systems. Corporations should not have full "god-given forever and ever rights" to their patents and copyrights for more than a two year span.

Playing devil's advocate, what incentive is there to create new ideas if you can just use everyone else's?

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[claud3]

will it could have been worse

[Morganator]

Playing devil's advocate, what incentive is there to create new ideas if you can just use everyone else's?

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The idea is to allow corporations a set amount of time to profit infinitely off ideas. The incentive for corporations? Look for and hire people that have the creative capacity. There is no need for "god-given forever and ever" patent and copyright laws and rights. In all actuality, the system is rigged to stifle creativity.

[Fijiandoce]

The idea is to allow corporations a set amount of time to profit infinitely off ideas. The incentive for corporations? Look for and hire people that have the creative capacity. There is no need for "god-given forever and ever" patent and copyright laws and rights. In all actuality, the system is rigged to stifle creativity.

patents do have a time limits.....as far as im aware (the rules vary from county to country however)
more to the point, a patent can also be bought.

as for this creativity thing.....the "original" design for the telephone was made by a Scotsman (a man from Scotland) not Bell. i bet he wishes there was a patent system. im sure Goodyear got up to some nefarious deeds with rubber also though i forget what exactly.

[Dennis Dyack]

The idea is to allow corporations a set amount of time to profit infinitely off ideas. The incentive for corporations? Look for and hire people that have the creative capacity. There is no need for "god-given forever and ever" patent and copyright laws and rights. In all actuality, the system is rigged to stifle creativity.

I can tell you from first hand experience with patents that if the incentive isn't great enough then companies won't dump money into R & D.

If I invent something, it belongs to me. Why should someone else ever be able to use MY idea without compensation.

I bet if you dumped years of work and cash into an idea, you wouldn't want people taking it and using it without any compensation. I know I wouldn't.

I agree something needs to be done, but within reason. You can't take and use what doesn't belong to you. That is theft.

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[Vulgotha]

Well, you can't feel bad for them. I sure don't.

You cheat and cut corners and eventually you get burned. Although frankly this is more of a pimple on their ass than anything really serious.

[Soldier 95B]

Sucks if true. They have been doing so well in Europe too. Hopefully they get it worked out.

[radgamer420]

This reminds me of that LG vs Sony fiasco awhile back.

[J3ff3]

I can tell you from first hand experience with patents that if the incentive isn't great enough then companies won't dump money into R & D.

If I invent something, it belongs to me. Why should someone else ever be able to use MY idea without compensation.

I bet if you dumped years of work and cash into an idea, you wouldn't want people taking it and using it without any compensation. I know I wouldn't.

I agree something needs to be done, but within reason. You can't take and use what doesn't belong to you. That is theft.

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the point is that patents are so superficial these days.

take apple's patent on 'swiping to unlock'. really? no one had EVER had the idea of moving their finger on a screen to interact with it? and should you even be able to patent an action like that? how much r&d costs did they realistically sink into that one idea?

most patents end up being so arbitrary they end up stifling rather than promoting creativity.

[MacP]

Where there's blame there's a claim comes to mind.

[J3ff3]

lol at MS' defense.

i think i'm going to try that one.

"but if i bought all my music LOOK at how much it would cost me"


(i really don't feel much sympathy for them, although to be fair MS are one of the more sensible companies when it comes to copyright infrigement of users)