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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Kind of hard to beat release date delivery from amazon.com.
    Actually, no its not.

    On the off chance I get it the day before, then yes it is quicker. If it comes the same day as release though I know I'll be playing my DD copy before the postman would arrive.

    More often than not games are able to be downloaded before the release and unlock at 12 - That is faster than any online shop for me.

    If that's not the case I can start to download from 12 and have my game within the hour - again much quicker.

    I don't know what experience(s)/how much experience you've had with DD services but from my experience (of downloading over 100 games from different services) I can easily tell you that a DD model is a much much faster and convenient option for me.

    Your argument that delivery is quicker is flawed and so is your argument that delivery services can fail ($#@!, postal companies go on Strike often in the UK. They probably pose a greater constraint on delivery than an electronic service failing would) is also being grasping at straws a little too much. All services can fail.

    At the end of the day DD isn't suitable for all. Maybe your not suitable for DD but myself and million of others are, are using it and can see that it does work and it works very well.


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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Do you not go to work?

    ?????
    Yup. Every morning there is a digital game or demo I want I always queue them up before I head to work. Many times if I have time I start playing the game before work.


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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    Actually, no its not.

    On the off chance I get it the day before, then yes it is quicker. If it comes the same day as release though I know I'll be playing my DD copy before the postman would arrive.

    More often than not games are able to be downloaded before the release and unlock at 12 - That is faster than any online shop for me.

    If that's not the case I can start to download from 12 and have my game within the hour - again much quicker.

    I don't know what experience(s)/how much experience you've had with DD services but from my experience (of downloading over 100 games from different services) I can easily tell you that a DD model is a much much faster and convenient option for me.

    Your argument that delivery is quicker is flawed and so is your argument that delivery services can fail ($#@!, postal companies go on Strike often in the UK. They probably pose a greater constraint on delivery than an electronic service failing would) is also being grasping at straws a little too much. All services can fail.

    At the end of the day DD isn't suitable for all. Maybe your not suitable for DD but myself and million of others are, are using it and can see that it does work and it works very well.




    BBK. Tapatalking.

    The release date delivery was in comment to having to leave the house. (which you don't do with DD) If somebody really wanted the game asap they could just go to their local, gamestop, walmart or best buy. (most people live within ~20 minutes of one of those stores)

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Yup. Every morning there is a digital game or demo I want I always queue them up before I head to work. Many times if I have time I start playing the game before work.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    You didn't elaborate on the "performance advantage"

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    The release date delivery was in comment to having to leave the house. (which you don't do with DD) If somebody really wanted the game asap they could just go to their local, gamestop, walmart or best buy. (most people live within ~20 minutes of one of those stores)



    You didn't elaborate on the "performance advantage"
    Games installed on my PS3/360 hard drive offer better performance than those running from DVD/Blu-ray. Faster load times, less pop in, and better frame rates.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Games installed on my PS3/360 hard drive offer better performance than those running from DVD/Blu-ray. Faster load times, less pop in, and better frame rates.
    I don't agree with this. I have Borderlands on my HDD and the game still takes a good TEN SECONDS to load textures even after the loading screen. Also there are frequent frame drops. The digital version of Mass Effect 2 has very annoying loading times aswell. Assassin's Creed brotherhood has just as much screen tearing as the disc versions.

    What this means is that just by having a DD version doesn't guarantee better performance, it depends on the games and how they are optimized to make use of the HDD. For example all games using streaming tech will perform WORSE on HDD alone. Naughty Dog has said that they need BOTH the disc and the HDD for optimal performance, and the same goes for GOW3
    Last edited by Itachi; 05-14-2012 at 20:03.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    I don't agree with this. I have Borderlands on my HDD and the game still takes a good TEN SECONDS to load textures even after the loading screen. Also there are frequent frame drops. The digital version of Mass Effect 2 has very annoying loading times aswell. Assassin's Creed brotherhood has just as much screen tearing as the disc versions.
    You don't have to agree. I am just telling you my experience.

    it depends on the games and how they are optimized to make use of the HDD.
    Yup, so digital games will be optimized, which is great. Consistency. 9 times out of 10 my games perform MUCH better when installed. 10 out of 10 times when it is a digital version of the game from Games on Demand or PSN.

  7. #107
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    I don't think so. Most PC games today install with the DVD and will then be registered on STEAM (for instance). After the registration process that DVD is no longer required for use.

    If we're talking 'pure performance' the best case of this is when the game is installed on the HDD and it still requires the DVD-ROM. You have two streams going on so faster load times and less pop in. This is what the 360 games do.

    Not that it really matters a whole hell of a lot with modern PC's, Hard Drives today are fast enough to get the job done.


  8. #108
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    I thought the DVD in drives for xbox games was only so its a legitmate source and not pirated because the disc is where the anti priacy stuff is and usually it cannot be reproduced by copying.

    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    The release date delivery was in comment to having to leave the house. (which you don't do with DD) If somebody really wanted the game asap they could just go to their local, gamestop, walmart or best buy. (most people live within ~20 minutes of one of those stores)
    Jesus you really are pushing this arent you.
    Last edited by keefy; 05-14-2012 at 21:21.

  9. #109
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    On my xbox, the games don't run from the DVD when the game is installed. There is the initial spin of the disk to verify I own the game, but then it stops and it never runs again. There are already websites dedicated to showing the improved performance of games running from the HDD on the PS3 and 360, and in many cases the performance is substantially improved.

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  11. #110
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    Yeah the 360 doesn't load anything from the disc when the game is installed. Tha'ts why it is so quiet!

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    I should have been more clear, this is what the PS3 games and some 360 games do (like BF3 with the optional texture pack). Most 360 games won't use the disc once installed, correct.

    I was going for 'console games' instead I said 360 games.


  13. #112
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    ITs still faster if all the data is on the hard drive, hard drives can read data way faster than DVD drives.

  14. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    I thought the DVD in drives for xbox games was only so its a legitmate source and not pirated because the disc is where the anti priacy stuff is and usually it cannot be reproduced by copying.



    Jesus you really are pushing this arent you.
    There are 2 types of "installs"

    One is a proper install where game data is copied from the dvd to the HDD and is then read off the HDD without the use of the disc. The disc sits in the drive for anti piracy purposes.

    Then you have "partial" installs

    One example is like with certain ps3 games where a chunk of game data is installed on the HDD from the blu-ray disc so both can be used concurrently.

    On the 360 side the closest thing to this is optional installs like the BF3 texture pack.

    However another way this is done on the 360 side is real time caching of data on the HDD by the game. This is done automatically. Halo 3 was a game that used this type of system. If you tried to install a game to the HDD that worked like this, you would have worse performance overall than using the disc to play the game. (Though, I believe bungie changed this in Reach, you can now install the game and not suffer any performance penalties, IIRC)


    Only because people fail to realize that just because DD works for them now, it may not work for them in the future if people are pushed to that type of distribution as the primary source for purchasing/acquiring games. There are just too many issues for it to be a viable solution for primary distribution in the next generation compared to physical media (optical, not solid state memory)

    Perhaps these constraints will not exist in the next next generation, (9th generation of consoles) of consoles, but people seem to be clinging to the idea that next gen consoles (8th) will ditch optical media (if not all physical media) in favor of solid state memory. (or digital distribution) And even if these constraints were not an issue, you can bet brick brick and mortar stores (especially gamestop) would throw a huge fit over DD becoming the primary game distribution method.



    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    ITs still faster if all the data is on the hard drive, hard drives can read data way faster than DVD drives.
    Traditional mechanical HDD's would have a hard time beating the consistent read/write speed of a Blu-Ray disc at 12X.

  15. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    There are 2 types of "installs"

    One is a proper install where game data is copied from the dvd to the HDD and is then read off the HDD without the use of the disc. The disc sits in the drive for anti piracy purposes.

    Then you have "partial" installs

    One example is like with certain ps3 games where a chunk of game data is installed on the HDD from the blu-ray disc so both can be used concurrently.

    On the 360 side the closest thing to this is optional installs like the BF3 texture pack.

    However another way this is done on the 360 side is real time caching of data on the HDD by the game. This is done automatically. Halo 3 was a game that used this type of system. If you tried to install a game to the HDD that worked like this, you would have worse performance overall than using the disc to play the game. (Though, I believe bungie changed this in Reach, you can now install the game and not suffer any performance penalties, IIRC)


    Only because people fail to realize that just because DD works for them now, it may not work for them in the future if people are pushed to that type of distribution as the primary source for purchasing/acquiring games. There are just too many issues for it to be a viable solution for primary distribution in the next generation compared to physical media (optical, not solid state memory)

    Perhaps these constraints will not exist in the next next generation, (9th generation of consoles) of consoles, but people seem to be clinging to the idea that next gen consoles (8th) will ditch optical media (if not all physical media) in favor of solid state memory. (or digital distribution) And even if these constraints were not an issue, you can bet brick brick and mortar stores (especially gamestop) would throw a huge fit over DD becoming the primary game distribution method.




    Traditional mechanical HDD's would have a hard time beating the consistent read/write speed of a Blu-Ray disc at 12X.

    I highly doubt that.

  16. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    I highly doubt that.
    Keyword is consistent.

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  18. #116
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    Millions of people have a connection which takes days to download a game. My connection isn't horrible but 1GB Takes me 2 Hours. Games are getting bigger and my connection isn't getting better. Quick / Fiber infrastructure is not being rolled out at a quick enough pace for the next generation of video game consoles, it doesn't matter if millions of people do have a good enough connection because millions of people still don't!

    Direct Downloads are also still fundamentally flawed, something the industry hasn't beaten yet. Take Steam - Yes it works, that's grand. You need the client, where do you get the client? Their Servers. Where do you get your games? Their Servers. Yes you can back them up but you still need the client to play the games and launch them and even restore the backups. What happens if you lose internet connection? You play it in offline mode, What happens if your computer breaks during that time? You can't login to the client to play your games, and you need to of logged in at least once for Offline mode - You need the internet in this case.

    What if Valve suddenly just fell apart or your country blocked their servers for some absurd reasons (these are what ifs, not realistic..well sort of not), you wouldn't be able to get your games. The problem with Direct Downloads is two things.

    -We do not have the infrastructure - especially in third world countries and many rural places.
    -We do not completely own our games unless they're DRM free and we can make as many copies as want without relying on other third-party software to run them. The problem with DRM free? How do companies make their money if we can distribute their games for free, copy them for free. This is why the Xbox 360 requires the disc to be inserted, in order to enforce ownership of the particular title.

    The reason physical ownership works, is because you don't need to rely on someone else or some company - It's yours to use in whatever way you want, it's in your hands. Someone right now could take this entire website down, and there is nothing you can do about it. Are you really okay with handing your entire life over to the digital medium without these problems being resolved? Are you okay with some people having to wait days to download their games and not being a full owner of a game?

    For me, I love Steam and am an avid PC Gamer but I only use it if I can't get a physical copy of it, and I see it more of a long time rental than actually my games. The games I buy on Steam are just a few rows entered in a database somewhere saying OWNERSHIP=TRUE.I just don't see this working until we can fully own these games with no consequences or freedom given up.

    /VENT. I may be wrong in some of the above but it's literally how I feel about DD and Physical Ownership.
    Last edited by :mn:; 05-15-2012 at 03:28.
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  20. #117
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    DD isn't for everyone. If it took me 2 hours to download 1GB I probably wouldn't be fond of a DD service either.

    The difference between yourself and I is that you try to buy a hard copy first and digital after. With myself I actively decide to purchase the DD and will only buy a hard copy if I have no other choice OR if I don't want to support a service I.e Origin. I don't think any console should be strictly DD games but they should at least have the option there for those of us that prefer it and have a fast enough connection to take true advantage of it.


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  21. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    DD isn't for everyone. If it took me 2 hours to download 1GB I probably wouldn't be fond of a DD service either.

    The difference between yourself and I is that you try to buy a hard copy first and digital after. With myself I actively decide to purchase the DD and will only buy a hard copy if I have no other choice OR if I don't want to support a service I.e Origin. I don't think any console should be strictly DD games but they should at least have the option there for those of us that prefer it and have a fast enough connection to take true advantage of it.


    BBK. Tapatalking.
    This. +rep. I have NOTHING against DD, infact I think it'd be awesome if all games released next gen had a DD option, but it should (and can only be, for another decade at least) be an option to hard copies. I love my hardcopy games.

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