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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3D D3V!L View Post
    Why? Kids who grow up where $#@!sexuality isn't looked down upon wont end up gay because of it. If someone is gay, they're gay, no matter how, where or who they are brought up by.
    True, but as a parent you will take every precautionary measure. Like how you wont want your kid to think doing drugs is okay. A neighborhood where there are a lot of crack addicts running around will certainly be looked down upon when it comes to raising children.

    For me $#@!sexuality is a sin and if that sin starts to become the norm in my society then I will either move, or vote against it. However I still reserve my opinion that gays are humans and they deserve the same rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    $#@!sexuality IS common, in THIS society.


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    The $#@!sexual population in this country is like 2% max (according to gates).

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_846348.html





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  3. #53
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    Having lived in North Carolina for many years, my friends and I almost came to blows over this. Very heated disagreements.

    There are still relational shockwaves going on between me and them.


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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    True, but as a parent you will take every precautionary measure. Like how you wont want your kid to think doing drugs is okay. A neighborhood where there are a lot of crack addicts running around will certainly be looked down upon when it comes to raising children.

    For me $#@!sexuality is a sin and if that sin starts to become the norm in my society then I will either move, or vote against it. However I still reserve my opinion that gays are humans and they deserve the same rights.
    I can understand this opinion very clearly. Your religion states that $#@!sexuality is a sin, and thus you make decisions only for yourself and family, not make decisions for other people as a whole. Instead of outlawing gay marriages, people who are $#@!phobic can just stay away from them and mind their own business.

    It's like this, if gay people didn't like something conventional or something ordinary, such as straight marriages, can they make a state's government outlaw it if they were able to get the majority vote? I don't think so. Then why is it applicable the other way around?

    This all boils down to the fact that gays have rights just as much as you and me do, and no one person or government should be able to remove that from them just because of the bigoted viewpoint of some, who in no way are harmed by this whole debate.
    Last edited by Cyklops; 05-12-2012 at 23:31.

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  6. #55
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    Well the thing to keep in mind here guys, is that Amendment 1 did not 'ban' gay marriage- it was already illegal. All it did was 'protect' the term marriage and defined it as being man and wife only.

    It was de facto religious legislation.

    Which is why I (in spite of being religious myself) and others opposed it.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 05-12-2012 at 23:12.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Well the thing to keep in mind here guys, is that Amendment 1 did not 'ban' gay marriage- it was already illegal. All it did was 'protect' the term marriage and defined it as being man and wife only.

    It was de facto religious legislation.
    And therein lies the problem. The NC government's making decisions based on religious sentiments, while the whole country prides itself on the fact that its governments and the Church are two separate beings, unlike other nations like Iran and Pakistan.

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    Well, the 'federal' government prides itself on that. State by state it's a different matter in practice as we can all kinda see.

    I agree that our nation as a whole was founded to be secular (in spite of being made by religious and spiritual men) but the niggles and variations are left up to the states. Still, I absolutely believe that state governments as well should be secular.

    If Congress had passed legislation similar to this (let's just suspend disbelief) I would be outraged beyond all reason- as I despise the Federal Government. I view the state doing this as far more 'legitimate' but I'm still very agitated about it. State governments are closer to the people and are meant to be more independent.


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  10. #58
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    Whether it's 2 percent or 50, same-sex marriages shouldn't be an issue at this point. If our country wants to pride itself on being the land of the free then it shouldn't take away (or rather withhold) the rights of its citizens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Well, the 'federal' government prides itself on that. State by state it's a different matter in practice as we can all kinda see.

    I agree that our nation as a whole was founded to be secular (in spite of being made by religious and spiritual men) but the niggles and variations are left up to the states. Still, I absolutely believe that state governments as well should be secular.

    If Congress had passed legislation similar to this (let's just suspend disbelief) I would be outraged beyond all reason- as I despise the Federal Government. I view the state doing this as far more 'legitimate' but I'm still very agitated about it. State governments are closer to the people and are meant to be more independent.
    Very well said, man. If more people were just able to think like this and put aside their religious beliefs, like you did, and look at it from a more humane point of view, maybe this Amendment might have not happened.

    +Rep for you.

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    Government's role is to protect the rights of the minority from the majority good job doing that, North Carolina.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksite View Post
    Whether it's 2 percent or 50, same-sex marriages shouldn't be an issue at this point. If our country wants to pride itself on being the land of the free then it shouldn't take away (or rather withhold) the rights of its citizens.
    Then its a debate about whether or not marriage is a privilege or a right. I'm leaning toward it being a right. I'm opposed to same-sex marriage because I don't think it exists without one redefining what marriage is and my personal beliefs, but at the same time I can't live other peoples' lives for them.

    What I want is an honest reason from $#@!sexual leaders on why they are fighting for the title "married". It seems that if it were purely based on love, they don't need the title of being "married". If there was a vote in my state, I simply wouldn't vote. I won't support it, but I won't take away anything from them either.

    I just see it as a push to be viewed as "normal". In no way do I hate or dislike gay people (I have some friends that are).
    Last edited by ex nihilo7; 05-13-2012 at 00:16.
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  16. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    Okay. So its wrong for a group of people to vote and use their numbers to get something done that they want, which happens to get rid of gay marriage?

    But it is okay if a law was put into place that allowed gay marriage that went against the very religion or standards that the other people live by?

    How come its only bad if one group of people are looked down upon? If the vote went the other way, would their be sympathy for the people that didn't support gay marriage?
    Really?

    Scenario One: People are treated unfairly by the state.

    Scenario Two: People are treated fairly by the state.

    That's all it comes down to. Remember when a majority of people were OK with slavery? Or when witch burnings still took place? What you're saying is "Well, a lot of people are unreasonable bigots, so its OK I guess."

    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    If you guys don't like how laws, and amendments are passed in this country, then GTFO. Cause thats how it has always been, and will always be, unless Obama $#@!s that up too. But thats an entirely different topic, so ignore it.
    This is supposedly the land of the free, and since its birth there's been a separation of church and state. This law is unconstitutional, and I hope Obama or someone else does something to appeal this in a higher court so we finally recognize $#@!sexuals are human beings on a national scale instead of second-class citizens.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 05-13-2012 at 00:28.
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  17. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ex nihilo7 View Post
    Then its a debate about whether or not marriage is a privilege or a right. I'm leaning toward it being a right. I'm opposed to same-sex marriage because I don't think it exists without one redefining what marriage is and my personal beliefs, but at the same time I can't live other peoples' lives for them.

    What I want is an honest reason from $#@!sexual leaders on why they are fighting for the title "married". It seems that if it were purely based on love, they don't need the title of being "married". If there was a vote in my state, I simply wouldn't vote. I won't support it, but I won't take away anything from them either.

    I just see it as a push to be viewed as "normal". In no way do I hate or dislike gay people (I have some friends that are).
    If every straight couple are getting married and living their lives based on love, then why shouldn't gays and lesbians be given the same treatment for loving someone their own gender? I guess you can say it like this: If all the kids in your neighbourhood got new shiny toys, except you because your parents say no, would you like it? It's just a matter of respect and equal rights that expected out of governments, that is to be given equally to everyone regardless of their sexual orientation.
    Last edited by Cyklops; 05-13-2012 at 00:27.

  18. #64
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    I see marriage working in one of two ways:

    1. It's a secular ceremony and should be enjoyed by everyone (including $#@!sexuals).

    2. It's a religious ceremony and should be affords NO benefits. Everyone should have civil unions, including $#@!sexuals, and those will have the same benefits as marriage does now. Then, people who want a religious ceremony can have one after the fact, between a man and a woman in a church, synagogue, mosque, etc.


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  19. #65
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    What's really messed up is that you can marry your own cousin but you can't marry the same sex! Smh

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  20. #66
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    Marriage is mostly a woman thing, they are the ones that want a big ceremony and why? It is because all the focus is on them, they are the centre of attention the men just use it as a way to get insanely drunk and not get into trouble over it no matter what happens.
    Marriage is truly an awesome thing.

    Anyone that says marriage is religious ritual is talking bollocks and wrong.
    Last edited by keefy; 05-13-2012 at 01:23.

  21. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Marriage is mostly a woman thing, they are the ones that want a big ceremony and why? It is because all the focus is on them, they are the centre of attention the men just use it as a way to get insanely drunk and not get into trouble over it no matter what happens.
    Marriage is truly an awesome thing.

    Anyone that says marriage is religious ritual is talking bollocks and wrong.
    From your post I get the idea that you are referring marriage as just a ceremony or an event

  22. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Marriage is mostly a woman thing, they are the ones that want a big ceremony and why? It is because all the focus is on them, they are the centre of attention the men just use it as a way to get insanely drunk and not get into trouble over it no matter what happens.
    Marriage is truly an awesome thing.

    Anyone that says marriage is religious ritual is talking bollocks and wrong.
    I think I get what you're saying. A gay wedding would be a festival of public intoxication and a lesbian wedding would turn into a brawl because two women would be vying to be the centerpiece of the ceremony. Or maybe the other way around since lesbians are butch and gay men are effeminate.

    Either way, we need to legalize it now because same-sex weddings sound way more interesting than hetero weddings.


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  24. #69
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    With all this talk about marriage and it being sanctaty of love we for get divorce rate is so high and recently a us celebrity married for 40 day as basicly a publisity grab and millions follow her. It is more a legal thing than anything else. If you are a gay couple and your other half gets hurt. They will deny you to see them in emergency because you are not family or legally married. That's just one example not to mention the tax breaks.
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  25. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksite View Post
    What about 'the people' who oppose it? Do you not consider their opinions worth noting? Are you saying the church doesn't influence some of those votes?

    So pretty much, "If you don't like it, you can get out", right? You guys act like legalizing gay marriage will somehow extinguish the right for a straight couple to get married. I think they have every right to be as miserable as those who take it for granted.
    Was my opinion noted when we lost the presidency to Obama? No. Thats how it works.

    I only argue against gay marriage, because gays themselves disgust me to my core. Its just my opinion, no arguing will ever change that. And I understand that I am the only one here that feels this way. But if every time someone wants to change things up, no matter how strange, will it be allowed?

    What if tomorrow, a sizable group of people want to $#@!, and marry their pets? Would it be allowed, just because they want it?
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  26. #71
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    Then that's a new situation to face, but that has nothing to do with this. Why do gays disgust you? They're completely normal people who are just like you except they have a different sexual preference. It's not their fault that they're born like that, just like it's not someone's fault that they're born with red hair and freckles. I know a lesbian couple with an adopted baby girl and you can tell they're a loving family, but they had to leave the country just to get married.

    The point of a government should be to serve and help the people, and it's only fair that $#@!sexuals are treated the same as heterosexuals in the eyes of the state. This isn't anywhere the same as people wanting to marry and $#@! dogs; it's about treating human beings as people and recognizing reasonable diversity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    Was my opinion noted when we lost the presidency to Obama? No. Thats how it works.

    I only argue against gay marriage, because gays themselves disgust me to my core. Its just my opinion, no arguing will ever change that. And I understand that I am the only one here that feels this way. But if every time someone wants to change things up, no matter how strange, will it be allowed?

    What if tomorrow, a sizable group of people want to $#@!, and marry their pets? Would it be allowed, just because they want it?
    Yes, lets compare 2 consenting human adults to bestiality.




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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsJester View Post
    Yes, lets compare 2 consenting human adults to bestiality.
    I speak merely of escalation. Once things are bent to, the even more crazy stuff comes out.

    There has to be a point of cut off. Sadly, no such point exists because of national amendments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    What if tomorrow, a sizable group of people want to $#@!, and marry their pets? Would it be allowed, just because they want it?
    If it voted on and win then sadly yes. However letting gays marry will never lead to that because it is two consenting human beings geting married. Only thing one could straw argue it with is assited suicide(another fun topic I wouldnt mind talking about in another thread). Also people used this argument many many years ago when Africans where given freedoms in marriage(interacecial couples) in the US decades ago. It is democracy for you. If majority has a diff opinon then minority and it gets voted on and majority wins, to bad minority. As someone said tho this is suppose to be the land of free. It was found so people could live the life they wanted free from tyranny of other gov.

    So keep this in mind kids, it is ok to get an abortion because we declared a fetus is techinicly not a person(not my opinon at all just the reason why abortion is legal. I am neutral on subject), but we decalre two people of same sex getting married is wrong. Odd no?(I am speaking of legal terms not relegion terms)
    Last edited by Yuuichi; 05-13-2012 at 03:54.
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    I speak merely of escalation. Once things are bent to, the even more crazy stuff comes out.

    There has to be a point of cut off. Sadly, no such point exists because of national amendments.
    So gay marriage is the "gateway drug" to even "worse" things?




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