The Dark Knight Rises Official Discussion Thread

[MjW]

You all convinced me to book a ticket for Thursday.

I owe it to Arkham City.

[THUGGEDOUT]

Will be going to see this in a couple of hours, can't fucking wait!!

[Versus]

Nice movie. I loved Bane soo much. IGN said that he gets old after a while, and he totally doesn't.

Anyway I give it a thumbs up!

[THUGGEDOUT]

Just got back from watching it, what an ending. Loved Hathaway as Catwoman, my order of favoritism:

1. The Dark Knight
2. The Dark Knight Rises
2. Batman Begins

[Shibby]

IGN review seems to ring true when they said if you preferred Begins, you'll love Rises, otherwise no Batman movie with beat Dark Knight for you.

[neoxthexone]

DON'T READ SPOILER

I defiantly think the scene that going to be remembered for a long time is Batman and Banes first meeting.
"I was wondering what would break first. Your spirit or your body" Perfect line.

[Dave-The-Rave]

Ok, I just got back from this..and all I can say is as someone who thought the first two films were just ok. I was blown away from this film. I mean it is easily the best film in the trilogy, the scope alone completely dwarves the first two films. I mean compared to this The Dark Knight looks like a clown having a fun night out on the town.

Here is why..BANE WINS !! He actually wins, he breaks Batman's back (exactly like the comics, by dropping him on his knee..which was a nice touch)..then Bruce is helpless as he watches Bane destroy Gotham, I found some of these scenes slightly disturbing. Black Rock being let lose, people being attacked and dragged out of their homes..sentenced to death or death. and then the Wayne Industries people being hung on the bridges. I couldn't believe the move was rated 12A and not 15, someone had to leave with their kid in the middle of it. very much doubt a kid of 12 could follow the storyline anyway, this isn't Spiderman.

[jj03]

anybody who's on orange network...don't forget oeange wednesdays...see this shit for free...

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Vulgotha]

Was not pleased with this movie.

It was the most absurd of the three, which is a real shame given the lengths Nolan went to 'root' this Batman universe in realism. To give you a feeling that, yea, this could possibly happen.

The plot was far too absurd to take seriously.

They treated Bane terribly, especially in the final 15min. What a complete and utter let down. Nobody with me in the theater liked that at all. Very negative reactions.

In all, this movie was just nowhere near up to snuff compared to the first two.

[Shibby]

I'll be going to see it again finally on Sunday. I'll be more observant this time, but I doubt it will change my opinion of the movie.

[Dave-The-Rave]

Was not pleased with this movie.

It was the most absurd of the three, which is a real shame given the lengths Nolan went to 'root' this Batman universe in realism. To give you a feeling that, yea, this could possibly happen.

The plot was far too absurd to take seriously.

They treated Bane terribly, especially in the final 15min. What a complete and utter let down. Nobody with me in the theater liked that at all. Very negative reactions.

In all, this movie was just nowhere near up to snuff compared to the first two.

Wow..I thought it blew them out of the water...and what wasn't realistic about it compared to the others? No one was flying like Superman.

[Vulgotha]

Spoilers:

Alright here's the crap that annoyed me:

Batman's super expensive body armor that is bullet and knife proof cannot protect him from Bane's unarmored fists. Bane does not have any kind of reinforced or metal knuckles in his fight scenes.




He only has a forearm guard that doesn't quite extend over his knuckles on one hand.. But it's only leather anyway. Yet he beats the living crap out of batman and his insanely protective suit.. cracks his head piece.. Which I can only assume is some kind of composite or ballistic grade material for head protection.. With his bare fists.

Furthermore, when Batman damages one of his frontal mask valves during the final fight scene on the stair sequence an enraged Bane swings blindly and cleaves partly through one of the stone pillars. With his bare hands.

Bane was in shape- but he wasn't monstrous. At this moment in time I actually have more muscle mass on me than Tom Hardy did at the time of the screening. Maybe some of that is a height difference (he's 5'9, self proclaimed in an interview and I'm 6'1) but I'm pretty built. I know that I couldn't punch through a stone pillar, let alone reinforced future kevlar vests. Frankly, I'd have trouble putting my fist through a car window without completely ruining my hand for life.

After Batman is magically beaten by Bane, while wearing this:


He is transported to some pit prison in allahdurkistan where he is kept alive for months (not that time is easy to measure at this point. Months felt like a week or two.), recovers from a spinal injury and sprinkles fairy dust on his rapidly degrading and aging body and escapes. Keep in mind, he gets up out of this hole in a desert, no idea where he is and flat broke. By this time all of his funds were basically gone, not that he had anything on him.

He shows up, somehow, on Gotham without anybody noticing him very calmly and confronts Selena Kyle with a little bit less then.. What? A day? Left on the clock before the whole thing goes to hell in a blast. Stretching the plausibility there Nolan.

Then there's the bad guy Tumbler vehicles. Remember how in the first two Batman movies the thing was damn near invincible? It took RPG hits and an insane crash sequence for it to be 'critically' damaged in the second movie. In THIS movie the Bat (flying hovercraft) is able to use its little mini guns and tiny rockets to blow apart all of them on the high way. To me, that seemed jarring. Making the batmobile that 'fragile' is a stark contrast to how much of a tank it was in the first two flicks.


And of course, whole nonsense about the nuclear bomb. That was a really weak plot point. "We've turned this nuclear fusion reactor into a bomb and will let it slowly degrade over the course of a few months. Whereupon all of us shall die along with Gotham." - Dude, what? What is the point? Just blow the place up. Talia Alghul was clearly retarded compared to her father. His plan was relatively subtle and had straight forward near immediate results: Gotham tearing itself apart due to the fear gas.

His daughter's 'brilliant' idea was somehow smuggle an entire mercenary army under gotham city to do very loud, noisy excavations... After the cops had already caught a few of them going into the subway tunnels. Keep in mind, Gordon saw the damn place and escaped - barely- and yet it seemed like it didn't do much to hinder Bane and his guys( I don't care if Wayne Corp or whoever had "mining" rights or whatever it was to be there. That's just absurd). Why did she do this? To basically rob Fox's armory, cave in a stadium and initiate a full blown civil war... Oh, and then randomly trap some 3,000 police officers who they then decided to keep alive as some kind of stupid symbolic victory or whatever.

But that was just phase one. Phase two of master plan involved reading Gordon's alleged retirement letter in front of Gotham (on what basis would anyone have to believe the masked madman who just blew up a stadium and trapped the police, after summarily executing a helpless scientist on camera and stating that they had a nuclear fusion bomb that they could detonate on a whim, was telling the truth?).

So that they could all ultimately die together like an exclamation point at the end of a poorly written screenplay- oh wait!

Genius! Your father would be proud.

Also the opening sequence was beyond stupid. A large (but not massive) prop plane is somehow able to wire on to a smaller aircraft and hold on to it as the craft becomes vertical (with its engine and propeller running the entire time) without any kind of negative side effects to the larger plane. The cables didn't strip off, it didn't lose elevation or have trouble keeping its course. It just flew on as if it were attached to nothing. Yea, right.

The scene where Batman just so happens to "Find" and rescue Gordon on the ice is also just a tad bit nonsensical.

And the worst offense of all: Killing Bane in less than two seconds with a rocket blast to the chest from the Batpod, courtesy of Miss Kyle.

Oh, yea, see, now that we revealed Talia was the REAL mastermind and Bane was some complete random thug who enforced her (feeble minded) bidding we don't really need him anymore. Let's just kill him immediately. We have to save time for this big dramatic build up where Batman rides his futurist hovercraft into the ocean and detonates a giant nuclear device.

I literally face palmed. I mean, they jumped the shark. Absolutely jumped the shark.

[-Bio-]

I loved TDKR. 9/10. It had obvious problems, but I can argue most of them is because it has to live up to an unprecedented bar set by BB/TDK in various areas. I still thought it was a very well done finish for the trilogy. I'd put this one at a close 2nd along with BB.

The things I didn't like:

-What they did to Bane in the final twist. It sort of cheapened his integrity as a villian in a way that I felt wasn't a plus for the overall movie, especially when we weren't entirely given enough context to suddenly see Talia as fearsome a villian as Bane. However, the main element of the antagonism was in the idealism and disturbing obedience that drove the League of Shadows. So while I didn't like how this twist came about, I knew how it changed my perspective of Bane/Talia wasn't really the point anyway, so I could still live with it. But still.

-Lack of clarity in point-to-point scenes. I don't have a big issue with this because most of it is about how Bruce/Batman got from point A to point B. I don't HAVE to be presented this information with clarity, especially when I know Bruce has already shown at this point that he has a powerful reputation everywhere and Batman that he has proven efficiency in unspoken/unseen ways, but at least a tiny detail in these areas would have rounded out the direction better. Maybe we could've seen quick scene of Bruce hitching a ride or negotiating with someone just to establish the type of means he took to get from the Prison to Gotham. Not necessary per se, but necessary to bring better logic to point-to-point moments? For sure. Another note is that I did not have this problem with BB/TDK.

-Lack of clarity in narrative and philosophical dialogue. The first half's arc about Wayne needing to collaborate with Talia and the progression of time during the time bomb arc were done well, but were muddier to digest when compared to the easier-to-digest BB/TDK. Also, the previous two were very effective in expressing the depth of its philosophical ideas. Neeson's Ra's Al Ghul and The Joker were voiceboxes to some critical philosophies that served as the biggest recurring struggles and themes in the trilogy. TDKR revisited the bigger ones through Bane, Talia, and the "wise" prisoners, but their eloquence weren't as profound for whatever reason. Not a big low point, cuz they still allowed for some great dialogue in ways like BB/TDK. It's just that BB and TDK did it slightly better.

The things I like:

-The characters. Catwoman and Robin were very interesting characters for me and allowed me to have more fun with the movie. Gordon/Wayne/Batman/Alfred/Fox are all pretty similar in tone as characters after BB, and I like how those two shook things up. They were also developed well given they only showed up in this movie. Especially catwoman, who functioned well in more ways than Blake (as a reflection of the desparation Gotham has inflicted upon its citizens, a character who allows Wayne to move on, a sidekick, and a serviceable love interest), whereas Blake was also good but didn't have to fill as many dimensions surrounding Wayne. Finally, Bane was very badass even with his somewhat disappointing twist at the end.

-The story/direction. The story is obviously preposterous, sure, but Nolan is clearly a director more concerned with fleshing out basic-yet-powerful thematic ideas to their absolute pinnacle and the story allowed for him to do that just as well as the last two. BB and TDK's narrative has more payoff in terms of narrative, but TDKR made up for that in how it actually succeeds in completing all of the themeatic ideas established and dramatized in the previous two. The result is a similar-yet-different payoff that allowed me to feel impressed by this movie as much as the previous films.

-The scope. TDKR covered SO many areas with remarkable efficiency. After TDKR, I know about catwoman's transformation, blake's journey from rookie cop to an honorable figure who is too good for his promotion, how Batman beat bane, how Wayne reconciles with Alfred, how Wayne overcomes his bat reputation, how Wayne enterprises bankrupted, and more. What's more is that it didn't feel like the effort felt like too much, either. This is the biggest highlight I have with this movie that makes its shortcomings feel very insignificant because of how much it does well in this area.

-The consistency. Even though Catwoman lived up to her ridiculous behavoir and mysteriously likes to walk around in a suit...and other elements that had to live up to the comic book roots, I still felt like Nolan's approach stayed rooted to the world he established in BB. That is the biggest selling point for me in this trilogy (a believable superhero movie series in its own way and the Nolan direction/style) and TDKR didn't disappoint even with the added challenge of including more "colorful" characters like Catwoman. And, of course, the coolness factor he brings to Batman when he shows up and does stuff is still there.

-The pacing. It was basically 3 hours, but the pacing was done very well to where it did not feel like 3 hours at all. I was entertained and excited by something the ENTIRE way through. A HUGE contrast to Return of the King, which was a decent film, but EXTREMELY hard to sit through due in part to its runtime.

[Shibby]

Spoilers:

Alright here's the crap that annoyed me:

Batman's super expensive body armor that is bullet and knife proof cannot protect him from Bane's unarmored fists. Bane does not have any kind of reinforced or metal knuckles in his fight scenes.




He only has a forearm guard that doesn't quite extend over his knuckles on one hand.. But it's only leather anyway. Yet he beats the living crap out of batman and his insanely protective suit.. cracks his head piece.. Which I can only assume is some kind of composite or ballistic grade material for head protection.. With his bare fists.

Furthermore, when Batman damages one of his frontal mask valves during the final fight scene on the stair sequence an enraged Bane swings blindly and cleaves partly through one of the stone pillars. With his bare hands.

Bane was in shape- but he wasn't monstrous. At this moment in time I actually have more muscle mass on me than Tom Hardy did at the time of the screening. Maybe some of that is a height difference (he's 5'9, self proclaimed in an interview and I'm 6'1) but I'm pretty built. I know that I couldn't punch through a stone pillar, let alone reinforced future kevlar vests. Frankly, I'd have trouble putting my fist through a car window without completely ruining my hand for life.

After Batman is magically beaten by Bane, while wearing this:


He is transported to some pit prison in allahdurkistan where he is kept alive for months (not that time is easy to measure at this point. Months felt like a week or two.), recovers from a spinal injury and sprinkles fairy dust on his rapidly degrading and aging body and escapes. Keep in mind, he gets up out of this hole in a desert, no idea where he is and flat broke. By this time all of his funds were basically gone, not that he had anything on him.

He shows up, somehow, on Gotham without anybody noticing him very calmly and confronts Selena Kyle with a little bit less then.. What? A day? Left on the clock before the whole thing goes to hell in a blast. Stretching the plausibility there Nolan.

Then there's the bad guy Tumbler vehicles. Remember how in the first two Batman movies the thing was damn near invincible? It took RPG hits and an insane crash sequence for it to be 'critically' damaged in the second movie. In THIS movie the Bat (flying hovercraft) is able to use its little mini guns and tiny rockets to blow apart all of them on the high way. To me, that seemed jarring. Making the batmobile that 'fragile' is a stark contrast to how much of a tank it was in the first two flicks.


And of course, whole nonsense about the nuclear bomb. That was a really weak plot point. "We've turned this nuclear fusion reactor into a bomb and will let it slowly degrade over the course of a few months. Whereupon all of us shall die along with Gotham." - Dude, what? What is the point? Just blow the place up. Talia Alghul was clearly retarded compared to her father. His plan was relatively subtle and had straight forward near immediate results: Gotham tearing itself apart due to the fear gas.

His daughter's 'brilliant' idea was somehow smuggle an entire mercenary army under gotham city to do very loud, noisy excavations... After the cops had already caught a few of them going into the subway tunnels. Keep in mind, Gordon saw the damn place and escaped - barely- and yet it seemed like it didn't do much to hinder Bane and his guys( I don't care if Wayne Corp or whoever had "mining" rights or whatever it was to be there. That's just absurd). Why did she do this? To basically rob Fox's armory, cave in a stadium and initiate a full blown civil war... Oh, and then randomly trap some 3,000 police officers who they then decided to keep alive as some kind of stupid symbolic victory or whatever.

But that was just phase one. Phase two of master plan involved reading Gordon's alleged retirement letter in front of Gotham (on what basis would anyone have to believe the masked madman who just blew up a stadium and trapped the police, after summarily executing a helpless scientist on camera and stating that they had a nuclear fusion bomb that they could detonate on a whim, was telling the truth?).

So that they could all ultimately die together like an exclamation point at the end of a poorly written screenplay- oh wait!

Genius! Your father would be proud.

Also the opening sequence was beyond stupid. A large (but not massive) prop plane is somehow able to wire on to a smaller aircraft and hold on to it as the craft becomes vertical (with its engine and propeller running the entire time) without any kind of negative side effects to the larger plane. The cables didn't strip off, it didn't lose elevation or have trouble keeping its course. It just flew on as if it were attached to nothing. Yea, right.

The scene where Batman just so happens to "Find" and rescue Gordon on the ice is also just a tad bit nonsensical.

And the worst offense of all: Killing Bane in less than two seconds with a rocket blast to the chest from the Batpod, courtesy of Miss Kyle.

Oh, yea, see, now that we revealed Talia was the REAL mastermind and Bane was some complete random thug who enforced her (feeble minded) bidding we don't really need him anymore. Let's just kill him immediately. We have to save time for this big dramatic build up where Batman rides his futurist hovercraft into the ocean and detonates a giant nuclear device.

I literally face palmed. I mean, they jumped the shark. Absolutely jumped the shark.

That was quite a long read lol. I'll try to tackle a few of the points though one at a time.

The Bane thing...

It's a good point. He is supposed to be super strong, but he is not genetically enhanced to be strong. His mask is only to stop him feeling pain.

Regarding him getting back to the island despite being flat broke...

He is still Bruce Wayne, and still has friends in high places, as evidenced by him acquiring the clean-slate program. I wouldn't be surprised if the friend who hooked him up with the clean-slate also gave him a lift.

Showing up in Gotham without anybody noticing him...

Well, he's the batman, stealth and sneakiness is his forte apart from combat.

The tumbler vehicles...

Joker destroys Batman's with one RPG in The Dark Knight, that's how the Batpod is introduced.

The nuclear bomb thing...

Well there's a few things to settle here. First, we could just flat out say that Talia is not as brilliant as Ra's. But that's too easy.

The point with how explicitly they were going to destroy Gotham is that it is an act of desperation. The League of Shadows had already TWICE tried and failed to destroy Gotham and "save the world." The first time, as mentioned in Batman Begins, was financially with the depression. But the Wayne family, and specifically, their death, urged the city to save itself. The second time, many years later, through the events of Begins, with the fear gas to make the city destroy itself. That time, as we know, Batman stopped them and killed Ra's al Ghul. So after two failed attempts, the nuclear bomb thing was essentially an all-in by them. They were not going to leave it to chance, they were just gonna blow it the fuck up. That's how I see it at least.

And the 'worst' offense, killing Bane...

It was done like that to emphasize how much unnecessary difficulty Batman puts upon himself in order to adhere to his no killing rule. Selina mentions it immediately too. All along, he could have easily killed Bane, and anyone he goes against. He had him on a roof while he was in the Bat at one point. He makes it difficult for himself, and while that makes him who he is, it is also his weakness. This is emphasized in all 3 movies, by Ra's al Ghul and by the Joker in the previous movies.

EDIT: added a few.

[DINAMO788]

Ok Vulgotha, you probably look at bruce lee and think that you could punch harder than him too, right? you're focusing on the wrong things. That sequence of punches Bane throws at batman and when he hits the pillar was very cool in my opinion. Bane is a freak of nature. Thats accepted. his specific limitations aren't mean to be scrutinized. plus he just busted through a pillar in the middle of the grand fight. its not like he was locked in a jail cell and bent the bars to escape. the pillar bust was meant to look cool (and it did to me), not meant to be analyzed because it was all for show and completely insignificant.

[THUGGEDOUT]

One thing that struck me as kind of odd was when Bruce put on the leg support and took of a piece off the cement/ brick column when he kicked it. Wasn't he wearing just regular shoes at the time, unless due to age the column was weak?

[Dispatch Ninja]

Loved it. 10/10 for me. It was even better my 2nd time seeing it.

[Dispatch Ninja]

IGN review seems to ring true when they said if you preferred Begins, you'll love Rises, otherwise no Batman movie with beat Dark Knight for you.

That's true for me, I've always preferred bb over tdk. Tdkr>BB>Tdk imo.

[Dave-The-Rave]

I honestly don't think people prefer The Dark Knight..I think the Heath Ledger of it all just clouds their judgement.

[Vulgotha]

Ok Vulgotha, you probably look at bruce lee and think that you could punch harder than him too, right? you're focusing on the wrong things. That sequence of punches Bane throws at batman and when he hits the pillar was very cool in my opinion. Bane is a freak of nature. Thats accepted. his specific limitations aren't mean to be scrutinized. plus he just busted through a pillar in the middle of the grand fight. its not like he was locked in a jail cell and bent the bars to escape. the pillar bust was meant to look cool (and it did to me), not meant to be analyzed because it was all for show and completely insignificant.

Eh, Bruce Lee wouldn't have been able to put his fist through a pillar without suffering massive amounts of damage either. My point still stands man, you'd have to be unnaturally strong and have superhuman bone density to pull that off.

The movie just stands in stark contrast to the "realistic tone" they tried to set in the past two.



@Shibby

The Tumbler took an RPG hit and then lost control and collided into tons of cars and concrete... Still, I get your point. It just feels like they were cheapening it.


Dude, if they weren't going to leave it to chance then why:

1. Did they leave Batman alive. Hubris? C'mon now.
2. Let the bomb slowly go critical over the course of a few months.
3. Leave the entire police force alive.

Literally, Talia is retarded. Through no fault of her own she was born with severely impaired cognitive capabilities compared to all the other league of shadow children.

As for Bane. I don't care man, they still should have let him say something in his dying breath. Anything. Even a 15 second 'parting' scene with him would have better than just clapping your hands and saying "AND HE'S GONE! ITS MAGIC!"

[Dave-The-Rave]

Eh, Bruce Lee wouldn't have been able to put his fist through a pillar without suffering massive amounts of damage either. My point still stands man, you'd have to be unnaturally strong and have superhuman bone density to pull that off.

The movie just stands in stark contrast to the "realistic tone" they tried to set in the past two.



@Shibby

The Tumbler took an RPG hit and then lost control and collided into tons of cars and concrete... Still, I get your point. It just feels like they were cheapening it.


Dude, if they weren't going to leave it to chance then why:

1. Did they leave Batman alive. Hubris? C'mon now.
2. Let the bomb slowly go critical over the course of a few months.
3. Leave the entire police force alive.

Literally, Talia is retarded. Through no fault of her own she was born with severely impaired cognitive capabilities compared to all the other league of shadow children.

As for Bane. I don't care man, they still should have let him say something in his dying breath. Anything. Even a 15 second 'parting' scene with him would have better than just clapping your hands and saying "AND HE'S GONE! ITS MAGIC!"

If you're calling BB and TDK completely 100% realistic you're delusional. You're just trying too hard to pick this apart.

[Vulgotha]

If you're calling BB and TDK completely 100% realistic you're delusional. You're just trying too hard to pick this apart.

Where did I say it was 100% realistic?

I'm not trying all that hard to pick it apart honestly. To me these flaws are glaring and it made we walk out of the film disappointed.

[Dave-The-Rave]

Where did I say it was 100% realistic?

It was the most absurd of the three, which is a real shame given the lengths Nolan went to 'root' this Batman universe in realism. To give you a feeling that, yea, this could possibly happen.

The plot was far too absurd to take seriously.

Maybe you are forgetting the previous two films, but plenty of stuff in them weren't exactly realistic either..one example being a massive truck flipping head over heels in TDK. Also compared to The Joker, I think Bane was a MUCH more believable villain.

It seems a lot of people went into this film determined to hate it..or else way too incredibly hyped that it would never live up to their ridiculous expectations. I'm glad I went in with low expectations. (ironcally because I had read said people's spoiler free comments beforehand).

[Vulgotha]

Maybe you are forgetting the previous two films, but plenty of stuff in them weren't exactly realistic either..one example being a massive truck flipping head over heels in TDK. Also compared to The Joker, I think Bane was a MUCH more believable villain.

It seems a lot of people went into this film determined to hate it..or else way too incredibly hyped that it would never live up to their ridiculous expectations. I'm glad I went in with low expectations. (ironcally because I had read said people's spoiler free comments beforehand).

You still haven't made a convincing argument that I said the previous two movies were "100%" realistic lol. I merely said he tried hard to root them in realism (as opposed to, say, the Tim Burton Batman and subsequent films in the 90's) not that they were completely realistic.

I'd actually prefer to have walked out amazed and saying it was the better of the 3. But to me, it just wasn't.

The Joker was an average, if not insane and clever, criminal. He wasn't able to punch through future kevlar with bare fists or through stone pillars. He preyed off peoples inner nature and fears and was relentless.

[Dave-The-Rave]

You still haven't made a convincing argument that I said the previous two movies were "100%" realistic lol. I merely said he tried hard to root them in realism (as opposed to, say, the Tim Burton Batman and subsequent films in the 90's) not that they were completely realistic.

I'd actually prefer to have walked out amazed and saying it was the better of the 3. But to me, it just wasn't.

The Joker was an average, if not insane and clever, criminal. He wasn't able to punch through future kevlar with bare fists or through stone pillars. He preyed off peoples inner nature and fears and was relentless.

So want..you're saying Rises is more comparable to the Burton movies?