Carmack: There'll be "lots of 30hz games" in next-gen

[Blacksite]

Legendary game designer John Carmack has suggested that we won’t see 60 frames-per-second become a ‘standard’ next generation as some gamers are hoping.

Speaking on his twitter account and in response to a question on if he thought we’d see more 60fps games on consoles in the next generation, Carmack was quick to quash the idea of 60fps becoming a standard.

“There will still be lots of 30hz games, which I don’t think it is a good trade,” he said, reiterating his well-documented belief that a high frame rate makes for better experiences. “If TVs didn’t add lag, it would be more clear cut,” he concludes, scuppered out of going deeper on the issue by Twitter’s character limits.

While a tiny passing comment from Carmack, his opinion on the situation is notable as he’s the co-founder and technical director of id Software, a company always proficient at squeezing the best performance possible out of hardware – from Doom in 1993 to last year’s RAGE.

Thanks, EvilAvatar.

Source

I also think 60 frames per second won't become the standard for next-gen titles. Developers will want to scale back the frame rate if it means they can provide more impressive visuals in their games. But I do think 1080p gaming will become a lot more commonplace in the industry.

[BoyBettaKnow]

If that is the case then I will be very disappointed. My day one purchase of both the new consoles could change to a no buy, if his guess is true.


BBK. Tapatalking.

[Varsh]

After hearing so many rumours flying about and with Epic and ID throwing big things out from time to time, I'm getting put off by the next generation too. The scary thing is all of these rumours are becoming commonplace from the developers themselves. If rumours are true then I'll be sticking to PC gaming for probably the first time ever in a generation. Things aren't looking promising that's for sure.

[Fijiandoce]

If that is the case then I will be very disappointed. My day one purchase of both the new consoles could change to a no buy, if his guess is true.


BBK. Tapatalking.

Really??
Blu-ray playback [full 1080p] is 24fps, you gunna stop buying those too?

why would a developer go the 60fps route anyways, when the difference between the two is minimal at best, but the performance drain is disproportionately scaled?

"However, during development, there are hard choices to be made between higher quality graphics and framerate. And we want to make the right choices that reflect our commitment to providing you with the best looking games out there. To that end, our community team did some research into the question of framerate. The results perhaps confirmed what I've known for a long time, but found it difficult to accept without evidence."The community team's findings suggest that a higher framerate does not significantly affect a game's sales, nor does it affect revew scores. However, graphics do have a significant impact on the final review score, and can even affect the gameplay, with gamers perceiving better looking games to be "more fun."

Insomniac

30fps is an acceptable trade off as far as im concerned. im more concerned about the screen resolution.

[AaronSOLDIER]

I might actually skip next gen altogether lol

[BoyBettaKnow]

Really??
Blu-ray playback [full 1080p] is 24fps, you gunna stop buying those too?

why would a developer go the 60fps route anyways, when the difference between the two is minimal at best, but the performance drain is disproportionately scaled?

Sorry, I didn't realise that films and games are the same. My mistake.

The developers are going the route of 30fps only because the consoles lack power to push decent graphics and hit 60Fps.

To say there is a minimal difference between the two is just not true there is a massive difference between the two and I personally hate playing games at 30fps. If you can't tell the difference/don't think there's much in it that's fine but there is certainly, for me, a noticeable jump between the two.

I've said for ages now that 1920x1080 at 60fps is the minimum I expected for next gen.





BBK. Tapatalking.

[Fijiandoce]

Sorry, I didn't realise that films and games are the same. My mistake.

The developers are going the route of 30fps only because the consoles lack power to push decent graphics and hit 60Fps.

To say there is a minimal difference between the two is just not true there is a massive difference between the two and I personally hate playing games at 30fps. If you can't tell the difference/don't think there's much in it that's fine but there is certainly, for me, a noticeable jump between the two.

I've said for ages now that 1920x1080 at 60fps is the minimum I expected for next gen.





BBK. Tapatalking.

truthfully i can't tell the difference between 60fps and 30fps. (i have perfect eyeballs, or so the doctor says)
something i can see the difference in is the resolution, and i would agree with you that 1080p should be minimum next gen.
however, clearly this is justified as developers all aim for 30fps. very few aim for 60.
and this is why i stated disproportionality between a game that runs slightly smoother vs. a game that has that extra two or three shaders.
games now struggle to reach 30, and they aren't all beautiful diamonds.
i'd choose Uncharted at 30fps over Uncharted at 60fps with visuals turned down.

[BoyBettaKnow]

If you spend enough time playing games above 60 you start to notice the difference The reason they struggle to reach 30 is because the systems are lacking power to be able to do 60fps at this moment.


With a new console I'd expect more from them other than just staying at 30


BBK. Tapatalking.

[Blacksite]

I don't think it's because they're lacking power. Call of Duty games have been running at a smooth 60 frames per second for a while now, even though the visuals haven't really evolved much from what we've seen in 2007. I'm sure there will be a couple titles next-gen that run at 60 frames per second but I wouldn't go as far as to say that I'll quit console gaming if it doesn't become the norm.

I'm more interested in seeing 1080p become the norm for next-gen titles because that's something Sony promised their consumers towards the start of the current-generation with the PlayStation 3.

[Fijiandoce]

If you spend enough time playing games above 60 you start to notice the difference The reason they struggle to reach 30 is because the systems are lacking power to be able to do 60fps at this moment.


With a new console I'd expect more from them other than just staying at 30


BBK. Tapatalking.

so you'd use the extra power to achieve 60fps and keep the visuals as they are now?
even if games were to start at 60fps, by the end of the consoles life cycle they'd all be back down to 30fps again.

[Stingraysito]

Sorry, I didn't realise that films and games are the same. My mistake.

The developers are going the route of 30fps only because the consoles lack power to push decent graphics and hit 60Fps.

To say there is a minimal difference between the two is just not true there is a massive difference between the two and I personally hate playing games at 30fps. If you can't tell the difference/don't think there's much in it that's fine but there is certainly, for me, a noticeable jump between the two.

I've said for ages now that 1920x1080 at 60fps is the minimum I expected for next gen.





BBK. Tapatalking.

Depends of the person. For example i cannot see the difference between 30 FPS and 60 FPS (both running steadily).

I studied programming and had courses on developing games and like the previous members says that most of the time people don't see the difference between 30 and 60 FPS. But making a game run on 60 drains more than 30.

If you can make a good game at steadily 30 fps i don't see why is bad for next gen.

[Two4DaMoney]

This isn't shocking. 1080p won't be the focus of everyone either. That's even more resources being wasted because the average gamer can't even notice it.

[Sufi]

The reason why 30 fps will stick is because people don't care for 60 fps for the most part. Only a minority do...I'm in the minority but I'm not bothered by 30 fps in certain games as long as it's stable.

Another reason is: If a developer wants to make a game...if they target 60 fps, they won't get as much details in and resolution. If they target 30 fps, they will get far more details and much better resolution.

So generally people will think that a 30 fps game with more detail and better resolution is more attractive than a 60 fps game with less details and less resolution.

Which one would you pick? If you wanted to make more money? Let's take out COD for a second...most games are judged by the way they look and how sharp they are.

[Blacksite]

I don't mind either. I see the appeal of 60 frames per second but the only thing that bugs me about console gaming right now is the 720p resolution and that's mainly because I'm used to playing at a higher resolution with PC games.

[keefy]

Still stuck in the last century like the film industry with its 24FPS.

More is better.

ITs only what you are used to 30FPS is adequate only if its constant if it rops 1 or 2 frames its instantly noticed the screen jitters and the cotnrols feel laggy.

[Kuro]

Doesn't really matter to me as long as I'm having fun playing the game then that's all that really matters

[Rapture]

BoyBetta, you're setting your aspirations too high. I to wold greatly prefer 60fps/1080p across the board, but most developers simply won't take that route when 30 FPS is generally sufficient for gamers and they can pump out more impressive visuals. That said, I've grown away from console gaming because after playing on my PC for so long, it feels like I'm playing in slow-motion at 30 FPS.

At the very least I want 2xAA across all games next-generation. I'm so fucking sick of seeing jaggies.

[Minnzy]

I just don't want to EVER play games with framerate death again! It's something that should NEVER happen on consoles, EVER.

[Sufi]

^That will happen, but less. It will definitely happen.

[BoyBettaKnow]

BoyBetta, you're setting your aspirations too high. I to wold greatly prefer 60fps/1080p across the board, but most developers simply won't take that route when 30 FPS is generally sufficient for gamers and they can pump out more impressive visuals. That said, I've grown away from console gaming because after playing on my PC for so long, it feels like I'm playing in slow-motion at 30 FPS.

At the very least I want 2xAA across all games next-generation. I'm so fucking sick of seeing jaggies.

I don't believe I am.
If not all games are playing at it i would want something at least like a 70/30 split of 60fps games. As you said yourself, playing games on a PC you realize how much better 60fps is compared to 30fps. If next gen isn't able to provide that then i may just game on PC only.

[Sufi]

I think a higher percentage of games will be 60fps. Probably not by much but it will be there.

I think most games will have a stable 30fps. That and 720p will be the standard.

Most 60fps will obviously be 720p as well.

60fps with 1080p will still be rare.

We will likely see more 30fps games with 1080p resolution than 60fps with 720p/1080p.

[BoyBettaKnow]

What your saying does seem like a logical thing to do though it is still disappointing

[keefy]

Whats 60PS like on a 120Hz monitor?

[BoyBettaKnow]

It's very smooth. But 120Hz means you can play up to 120Fps what is just beautifully smooth.

[keefy]

I guess since its updating twice as fast the tearing is minimal or even non existent at 60FPS without vsync?