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  1. #51
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    Sufi vs Rapture.

    Interesting.



  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Why should I argue about a point that I didn't disagree with? I argued your point about human beings being elitist because they think they're superior...the part about being superior is true.
    Superior only in some ways, but not in the ways Black Wolf stated. Get with the program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Well you said "Humans are just animals" in your first post and then you went on to saying stuff about elitism. Now even if you were not talking in general but talking about love-making only, you're still wrong.
    Humans being animals is a fact, and we do possess animalistic traits. Are you confused about how I used the term eltiism now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Umm, it wasn't random, I clearly stated that we were superior, you kept going against it by bringing dolphins in and now we're here and you agree with me.
    It was. Take a look at my first response to you. Everything has already been mentioned before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Sir, if you read my posts again, you will see that I never once talked about love-making or just emotions, I was speaking in general terms why we were more elite than the other species, which is a fact.

    If you wanna play with semantics, go right ahead, call it elitism. The fact still remains that we are more elite than other species thus we can claim that. There. Enjoy your semantics.
    Concession accepted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    You implied that we should judge animals based on our values:
    I did not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Because you misread my first post.
    Incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Again, you didn't bother to read this part of my reply earlier...you bring this up and yet what you don't understand is that it's a very specific reason why this happens.

    You can't use that in a general setting. It's a war. War has to do with politics.
    And this negates its use in this discussion why? Oh, because it was break your entire defense. Besides, plenty of murders have happened outside of political reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I said that an animal is far more likely to attack, without a reason, than a human being.
    There's always a reason, otherwise it wouldn't be doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I didn't say it wasn't fact, I said it was pointless. Unless you can tell me the point? How am I wrong in saying "outer layer", why is your term correct and not mine?
    More agreements. Further evidence that this entire ordeal was a miscommunication on your part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    That's funny. That's the easiest way to win an argument, isn't it? Cite your claim or it's wrong lol. That's the same when people say, "Prove that God doesn't exist". It's just as stupid. But it's a good way to avoid an argument.
    What a petty way to back out of the argument. You should have just left that unquoted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    And I asked you what you meant by that...are you being sarcastic?
    I'm not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    lol sure. How did you exactly correct her? You said that we have sex just like animals. That's not entirely true and it has to do with our abilities to think much beyond our instincts than animals but no no, I'd love to hear how you can disprove someone's perception lol (in other words, opinion).
    Note: Opinions can be wrong. Despite my possibly disagreement, gravity still pulls me to the Earth. Humans do have sex just like animals because we're driven with the instinctual desire. What else happens is just additional feelings instilled by our brain. Again, this is not complicated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    And I mentioned earlier that regardless of what source she's using, what she's saying is her perception. You perceive sex differently than she does...one of the reasons is because you're a male and she's a female, the other reason is because us humans can form differing opinions.
    Answered above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    What does that have to do with mythology?
    Her 'source' for thinking that was was because of the Bible. Again, please pay attention and thoroughly read the posts here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    You don't think I know what mythology means? lol. Yea, I never once brought Bible into this...whichever word you prefer. I actually said religion specifically but I guess you didn't read that either.
    Clearly not since you had to ask. :T
    Last edited by Nerevar; 05-27-2012 at 23:21.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Superior only in some ways, but not in the ways Black Wolf stated. Get with the program.
    Again, I mentioned, due to our thought processes, we can interpret sex in different ways than animals (ranging in more emotions rather than instinct to procreate and deal with the arousal), thus edging them out when it comes to love-making. I agree with that completely.

    Humans being animals is a fact. Accept and move on.
    But you state it as if it was an absolute fact and nothing more to it...we can "be" like animals because we do have parts in our brain that are similar to them, which is where I brought the whole argument about us having more complex cognitive thinking. We have the ability to not act like animals.

    It was. Take a look at my first response to you. Everything has already been mentioned before.
    Yea, I see now where I misunderstood you.

    I did not.
    That paragraph implied it.

    And this negates its use in this discussion why? Oh, because it was break your entire defense. Besides, plenty of murders have happened outside of political reasons.
    Yes but generally these murders happen for a reason. Money, power to name a few. Now if you're going to say that a house pet would also be seeking power in case of mauling a baby...do understand that this is a house pet and the baby shouldn't pose any threat...if an animal thinks of it as a threat, it's due to its lesser cognitive thoughts that make it do so.

    Again, here you are still arguing that we're no better than animals and while I will agree that we are more destructive than animals, in normal conditions, animals act aggressive due to them being more instinctual beings rather than humans.

    I already mentioned that a human possesses free will to preserve or destroy, I'm not quantifying the overall wrongdoings, I'm talking about how we generally act in our environments.

    There's always a reason, otherwise it wouldn't be doing it.
    Yes, there's always a reason but the reasons can be very small as a baby wouldn't pose normally pose a threat to a dog. Again, because they don't have the complex thoughts as we do, they are more likely to act upon what their instincts are telling them.

    More agreements. Further evidence that this entire ordeal was a miscommunication on your part.
    No, you wanted to belittle me by telling me to use the correct term and now you realize that it was pointless to say it. Actually, you'd be wrong anyway and I edited that in my previous post.

    What a petty way to back out of the argument. You sohuld have just left that unquoted.
    Why does it matter if I quoted that or not? I quoted it to make it easier to read. I don't like to paraphrase.

    I'm the one backing out?

    Let's see, your original post:

    Normality arguments is a fallacy to begin with. Give me a citation showing humans go 'crazy' less often than animals do. Additionally, no, wrong, that's not an unfair comparison. It's completely valid and you know it.

    Firstly, you quoted "crazy" when I didn't even say that (talk about irony). I said they go "wild"...wild is also a reference to instincts. Which is a fact and common sense. Now whether there's a study on it or not, doesn't matter because it's still logical. I'm not the one backing out, you just don't know how else to defy it and are now going for the old "prove it" approach.

    I'm not.
    Then what are you trying to say here?

    I don't know why truth is valuable either."


    Note: Opinions can be wrong. Despite my possibly disagreement, gravity still pulls me to the Earth. Humans do have sex just like animals because we're driven with the instinctual desire. What else happens is just additional feelings instilled by our brain. Again, this is not complicated.
    Opinions can definitely be wrong, but not until you can give something that is more logical.

    What you say is simply not logical because an absolute instinctual desire is simply not true, there's more to it when it comes to human beings. To understand that, you have to learn about the differences between male and female hormones and how it relates to their different sex drives.

    You're a male so you can say that, which is why I agreed with you. I even replied to her telling her why it's a need for a man. Though your argument is out the door the moment you tell her that her interpretation is wrong because you don't know what her sexual drive is like...much less a female's in general apparently.

    Females (in general except in some species) by nature are not as aggressively sexual beings. At least in humans, as far as I know, it's to do with inadequate amount of testosterone. I don't know why it's true in general with other species as well but it's clearly the case.

    Now I'm not disagreeing with your instinctual argument, in that respect, we are animal-like but there's much more than that.

    Her 'source' for thinking that was was because of the Bible. Again, please pay attention and thoroughly read the posts here.
    I should pay attention? lol. I'm not the only one not paying full attention.

    Though regardless of the sources, what she says and what you say aren't more right or wrong than the other. They're both opinions and I can see truth to both of them.

    Here, and another time after this, I clearly mentioned to you that regardless of her source (Bible/Mythology in this case), what she says isn't wrong. She can see it being more than just an instinct to have sex. She can see it being a symbol of whatever she holds dearly.

    What she is saying doesn't defy science so I don't get why you're arguing against her source just because it has to do with mythology.

    If you actually look at it for a moment from an objective point of view and leave your views about religion out of it, you will see that she does have a point.

    You made one statement in your first post, (paraphrasing in case you become sensitive, correct it if I'm wrong):

    1) Sex is an instinct that humans take part in like animals and there's nothing more to it.

    Which is not entirely true.

    So unless you can give a better explanation as to why you statement is an absolute fact, I think we're pretty much done here.

    Clearly not since you had to ask. :T
    lol you're a character.
    Last edited by Omar; 05-28-2012 at 00:13.

  4. #54
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  6. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    But you state it as if it was an absolute fact and nothing more to it...we can "be" like animals because we do have parts in our brain that are similar to them, which is where I brought the whole argument about us having more complex cognitive thinking. We have the ability to not act like animals.
    Metaphor. I'm merely stating that we are animals, nothing less. I never implied that we weren't able to go beyond what other animals are capable of though. That would be foolish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Yea, I see now where I misunderstood you.
    On a lot of things. This entire ordeal was entirely unnecessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    That paragraph implied it.
    It really didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Yes but generally these murders happen for a reason. Money, power to name a few. Now if you're going to say that a house pet would also be seeking power in case of mauling a baby...do understand that this is a house pet and the baby shouldn't pose any threat...if an animal thinks of it as a threat, it's due to its lesser cognitive thoughts that make it do so.

    Again, here you are still arguing that we're no better than animals and while I will agree that we are more destructive than animals, in normal conditions, animals act aggressive due to them being more instinctual beings rather than humans.

    I already mentioned that a human possesses free will to preserve or destroy, I'm not quantifying the overall wrongdoings, I'm talking about how we generally act in our environments.
    Exactly this here, you have not and continue to not understand anything I've said. All that I've argued for that some animals do possesses the emotional range that we do, such as elephants and dolphins. This isn't about behavior or intelligence at all, and even if it was it's been made clear multiple times we both agree for the most part on those points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Yes, there's always a reason but the reasons can be very small as a baby wouldn't pose normally pose a threat to a dog. Again, because they don't have the complex thoughts as we do, they are more likely to act upon what their instincts are telling them.
    If we're moving into the realm of logistics then I have news for you: Humans love to be unreasonable and illogical. Regardless, a dog is likely to leave a baby alone because it doesn't perceive it was a threat. The scenario that you're using is very specific and forced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    No, you wanted to belittle me by telling me to use the correct term and now you realize that it was pointless to say it. Actually, you'd be wrong anyway and I edited that in my previous post.
    If I wanted to belittle then my post would be far removed from a simple correction. You even admit above that you misunderstood me originally, and it's clear you have been this entire time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post

    Why does it matter if I quoted that or not? I quoted it to make it easier to read. I don't like to paraphrase.

    I'm the one backing out?

    Let's see, your original post:

    Normality arguments is a fallacy to begin with. Give me a citation showing humans go 'crazy' less often than animals do. Additionally, no, wrong, that's not an unfair comparison. It's completely valid and you know it.

    Firstly, you quoted "crazy" when I didn't even say that (talk about irony). I said they go "wild"...wild is also a reference to instincts. Which is a fact and common sense. Now whether there's a study on it or not, doesn't matter because it's still logical. I'm not the one backing out, you just don't know how else to defy it and are now going for the old "prove it" approach.
    'Crazy' implies a loose definition to match what you've said, sir. Now who's arguing over semantics? You're the one who expressed that an animal is more likely to go wild than a human, but in my life it seems to not pertain anymore to either. I've seen people act 'wild' plenty of times. Besides, it depends on which animal we're using to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Then what are you trying to say here?

    I don't know why truth is valuable either."
    It's not worth it. It's so obvious and yet you don't get it. Just drop it here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Opinions can definitely be wrong, but not until you can give something that is more logical.
    Like my original statement that has yet and cannot ever be dismantled? Checkmate then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    What you say is simply not logical because an absolute instinctual desire is simply not true, there's more to it when it comes to human beings. To understand that, you have to learn about the differences between male and female hormones and how it relates to their different sex drives.

    You're a male so you can say that, which is why I agreed with you. I even replied to her telling her why it's a need for a man. Though your argument is out the door the moment you tell her that her interpretation is wrong because you don't know what her sexual drive is like...much less a female's in general apparently.

    Females (in general except in some species) by nature are not as aggressively sexual beings. At least in humans, as far as I know, it's to do with inadequate amount of testosterone. I don't know why it's true in general with other species as well but it's clearly the case.
    This seriously has nothing to do with anything. At all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I should pay attention? lol.
    Yeah, you should.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Though regardless of the sources, what she says and what you say aren't more right or wrong than the other. They're both opinions and I can see truth to both of them.

    Here, and another time after this, I clearly mentioned to you that regardless of her source (Bible/Mythology in this case), what she says isn't wrong. She can see it being more than just an instinct to have sex. She can see it being a symbol of whatever she holds dearly.

    What she is saying doesn't defy science so I don't get why you're arguing against her source just because it has to do with mythology.

    If you actually look at it for a moment from an objective point of view and leave your views about religion out of it, you will see that she does have a point.
    Wow. You've completely missed everything. Fine, let's switch gears to your argument, which is entirely displaced, and respond anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    The act of making love is dependent on how a person views it and its requirements, if it even has any for them.
    I said that in my very first post. Not only are we agreeing (again), but my point actually reinforces your argument for Black Wolf. Wow, amazing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    You made one statement in your first post, (paraphrasing in case you become sensitive, correct it if I'm wrong):

    1) Sex is an instinct that humans take part in like animals and there's nothing more to it.

    Which is not entirely true.
    I never once said that. Everything since has been a notation to the contrary. From the very start you should have asked for clarification if you were unsure rather than presuming something from my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    So unless you can give a better explanation as to why you statement is an absolute fact, I think we're pretty much done here.
    We were done since the start, but you've yet to realize it until now. To reiterate...


    1) Humans are animals.
    2) Humans possess instinctual drives.
    3) Humans possess higher cognitive function than other animals.
    4) Certain animals are capable of the emotions we are.


    Flipping Christ, that was easy. I'll be sure to use bullet points need time you stir up a debacle like this.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 05-28-2012 at 01:45.
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  7. #56
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    Or you meet someone actually enjoy being with, and the sex is just the cherry on top.


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  9. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Metaphor. I'm merely stating that we are animals, nothing less. I never implied that we weren't able to go beyond what other animals are capable of though. That would be foolish.



    On a lot of things. This entire ordeal was entirely unnecessary.



    It really didn't.



    Exactly this here, you have not and continue to not understand anything I've said. All that I've argued for that some animals do possesses the emotional range that we do, such as elephants and dolphins. This isn't about behavior or intelligence at all, and even if it was it's been made clear multiple times we both agree for the most part on those points.



    If we're moving into the realm of logistics then I have news for you: Humans love to be unreasonable and illogical. Regardless, a dog is likely to leave a baby alone because it doesn't perceive it was a threat. The scenario that you're using is very specific and forced.



    If I wanted to belittle then my post would be far removed from a simple correction. You even admit above that you misunderstood me originally, and it's clear you have been this entire time.



    'Crazy' implies a loose definition to match what you've said, sir. Now who's arguing over semantics? You're the one who expressed that an animal is more likely to go wild than a human, but in my life it seems to not pertain anymore to either. I've seen people act 'wild' plenty of times. Besides, it depends on which animal we're using to begin with.



    It's not worth it. It's so obvious and yet you don't get it. Just drop it here.



    Like my original statement that has yet and cannot ever be dismantled? Checkmate then.



    This seriously has nothing to do with anything. At all.



    Yeah, you should.



    Wow. You've completely missed everything. Fine, let's switch gears to your argument, which is entirely displaced, and respond anyways.



    I said that in my very first post. Not only are we agreeing (again), but my point actually reinforces your argument for Black Wolf. Wow, amazing.



    I never once said that. Everything since has been a notation to the contrary. From the very start you should have asked for clarification if you were unsure rather than presuming something from my post.



    We were done since the start, but you've yet to realize it until now. To reiterate...


    1) Humans are animals.
    2) Humans possess instinctual drives.
    3) Humans possess higher cognitive function than other animals.
    4) Certain animals are capable of the emotions we are.


    Flipping Christ, that was easy. I'll be sure to use bullet points need time you stir up a debacle like this.
    Ok, it's obvious that you don't want to participate but I'm still baffled about one thing:

    Where is she wrong about love-making?

  10. #58
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    I wasn't aware I ever said she was wrong when it comes to love-making. This is the third time now, but what I've said has actually defended her perspective of it. She even agreed with me later in the topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    I wasn't aware I ever said she was wrong when it comes to love-making. This is the third time now, but what I've said has actually defended her perspective of it. She even agreed with me later in the topic.
    You both agreed on one part of the post.

    The entire reason our arguments started was primarily because of this statement:

    Humans are just animals. The traits you've mentioned are not exclusive to humans. What you're prescribing is species elitism.

    You're clearly implying here that the complexity of human emotions are also present in animals, which is simply not true.

    As far as we know with scientific fact, their emotion set are basic at best and not complex in the cognitive and conscious manner that we humans do.

    Now after some discussion, you have agreed that we do have a higher cognitive functions but you're still not clear about this part.

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    LOL @ the bible

    LOL @ humans not being animals

    Rapture is now my favorite poster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    You both agreed on one part of the post.
    Yes, the part that you specified.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    The entire reason our arguments started was primarily because of this statement:

    Humans are just animals. The traits you've mentioned are not exclusive to humans. What you're prescribing is species elitism.

    You're clearly implying here that the complexity of human emotions are also present in animals, which is simply not true.
    If you read what Black Wolf actually stated...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    Futhermore, humans are not just animals. We have something animals do not have and that's stronger emotions and a more range of emotions. We also have a conscience.
    So your point is moot. Also, weren't you just saying earlier that your half of things wasn't about emotions, but intelligence instead? We practically agreed on this and that was a cause for this misconception. Which is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    As far as we know with scientific fact, their emotion set are basic at best and not complex in the cognitive and conscious manner that we humans do.
    Er... no, that's not scientific fact. Contrary to your statements, scientists have witnessed and documented numerous examples of other animals displaying a wide and complex range of emotions. Self-reflection may not be as powerful or even possible, but that isn't always necessary for emotional depth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegan_mekey View Post
    LOL @ the bible

    LOL @ humans not being animals

    Rapture is now my favorite poster.
    I don't think anyone ever said that we're not animals. I think the argument was that we possess more skills than animals.

    I'm pretty sure everyone knows about us being mammals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I don't think anyone ever said that we're not animals. I think the argument was that we possess more skills than animals.

    I'm pretty sure everyone knows about us being mammals.
    LOL @ animals "posses more skills than animals."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Yes, the part that you specified.
    Yes, but her entire post was relevant to love-making. You agreed to a part of it. I'm talking about the points we still don't agree with.

    If you read what Black Wolf actually stated...
    So your point is moot. Also, weren't you just saying earlier that your half of things wasn't about emotions, but intelligence instead? We practically agreed on this and that was a cause for this misconception. Which is it?
    You're wrong, as this article describes having more varied range of emotions that generally aren't seen in animals.

    The so-called self-conscious emotions - such as embarrassment, social anxiety, pride, guilt, and shame - undoubtedly constitute a distinct category of emotional experience that differs in important ways from emotions - such as anger, sadness, and fear - that have attracted the greatest attention from emotion researchers. Perhaps most important, the self-conscious emotions require self-awareness and, thus, are not seen in animals without the capacity for self-reflection or in human infants who have not yet acquired the ability to think consciously about themselves (Lewis & Brooks-Gunn 1979; Mitchell, 2003).
    http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...47699041894827

    The reason I focused on intelligence more earlier was due to your elitist comment but I have always mentioned emotions being more complex due to our superior cognitive abilities. I just didn't go in detail in my earlier posts.

    Er... no, that's not scientific fact. Contrary to your statements, scientists have witnessed and documented numerous examples of other animals displaying a wide and complex range of emotions.
    Yes, with the interpretation that we didn't believe they had much emotions before. It's complex relative to that...it's nowhere near as complex as what we can experience.

    Self-reflection may not be as powerful or even possible, but that isn't always necessary for emotional depth.
    That's simply not true as per the link I posted above.

    and then there's this:

    Various attempts have been made to identify a single behavioural characteristic that distinguishes humans from all other animals. Some anthropologists think that readily observable characteristics (tool-making and language) are based on less easily observable mental processes that might be unique among humans: the ability to think symbolically, in the abstract or logically, although several species have demonstrated some abilities in these areas. Nor is it clear at what point exactly in human evolution these traits became prevalent. They may not be restricted to the species $#@! sapiens, as the extinct species of the $#@! genus (e.g. $#@! neanderthalensis, $#@! erectus) are believed to also have been adept tool makers and may also have had linguistic skills.

    In learning environments reflection is an important part of the loop to go through in order to maximise the utility of having experiences. Rather than moving on to the next 'task' we can review the process and outcome of the task and - with the benefit of a little distance (lapsed time) we can reconsider what the value of experience might be for us and for the context it was part of.
    [citation needed]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_self-reflection

    Apparently some animals have shown some abilities but to what extent, wasn't said.

    Either way, self-reflection and self-conscious/awareness is required to have these complex range of emotions as clearly stated.
    Last edited by Omar; 05-28-2012 at 10:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vegan_mekey View Post
    LOL @ animals "posses more skills than animals."
    I'm sorry, I worded that wrong. I meant, humans possess specific abilities (such as tool creation, free will) that make us superior in a way that we're on top of the food chain even though we lack many "skills" that other animals do possess and are generally the weaker kind of other species. Having a higher cognitive thinking means that we simply manipulate our environments to make up for our limitations.

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    lol...This thread...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I'm sorry, I worded that wrong. I meant, humans possess specific abilities (such as tool creation, free will) that make us superior in a way that we're on top of the food chain even though we lack many "skills" that other animals do possess and are generally the weaker kind of other species. Having a higher cognitive thinking means that we simply manipulate our environments to make up for our limitations.
    How do we know other animals dont have free will? Some animals use tools for jobs also



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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    But I'm not lying. I don't seeing where I'm lying at. I don't get what you are saying.

    what you are basically saying is your taking the word SEX and twisting it to making love saying they are different. they are not different, it's the same thing, just a use of different words. to put it in another light, there are no cameras around us, we don't make lame love to each other like they do in the movies. when I read what you wrote I couldn't help but think about those cheesy sex scenes in rated R movies. such scenes as where they have rose pedals and lit candles with music playing o.O

    To be fair there are people that actually do copy "love scenes" from movies, they are called posers. I once had a girlfriend that had the same mindset as you in terms of sex vs. making love. she would act like we were in a movie or something, it was so annoying O.O I've seen this quite a few times from other friends girlfriends.

    not saying your like this but when I read what you wrote I immediately thought of that. lol O.O

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    Quote Originally Posted by vegan_mekey View Post
    Rapture Bigdoggy is now my favorite poster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    How do we know other animals dont have free will? Some animals use tools for jobs also
    Free will is not relevant to tool use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoggy View Post
    what you are basically saying is your taking the word SEX and twisting it to making love saying they are different. they are not different, it's the same thing, just a use of different words. to put it in another light, there are no cameras around us, we don't make lame love to each other like they do in the movies. when I read what you wrote I couldn't help but think about those cheesy sex scenes in rated R movies. such scenes as where they have rose pedals and lit candles with music playing o.O

    To be fair there are people that actually do copy "love scenes" from movies, they are called posers. I once had a girlfriend that had the same mindset as you in terms of sex vs. making love. she would act like we were in a movie or something, it was so annoying O.O I've seen this quite a few times from other friends girlfriends.

    not saying your like this but when I read what you wrote I immediately thought of that. lol O.O
    I don't agree with this. For me personally there are two modes for sex. Sometimes I just want to $#@! and cum, just to get the hormone levels down haha. There is nothing else to it, it's just the physical act of getting off. When I am more present in the moment, where it's more about expressing how I feel through actions instead of words, it's different, a lot deeper and more meaningful than simply doing it like they do on the discovery channel.

    I'm not saying that everyone is like this. I think it's quite possible that many out there have never experienced the difference so it's easy to think it's just posing...and maybe for some it is, like you recalled. This "making love" or sex with the intent of expression rather than sexual fulfillment is something that is real, and for many there is a distinct difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    You're wrong, as this article describes having more varied range of emotions that generally aren't seen in animals.


    Your source isn't absolute. It describes constructs of emotions that rely on a strong social structure. Those may be present within apes or chimpanzees, which continuously surprise us with what they can do. Social repercussions exist within those species as well, and they've been shown to feel what could be called embarrassment and pride.

    Even if those specific traits are exclusive to us, that doesn't mean different traits don't exist elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    The reason I focused on intelligence more earlier was due to your elitist comment but I have always mentioned emotions being more complex due to our superior cognitive abilities. I just didn't go in detail in my earlier posts.


    Complexity is different from 'strength' and 'range' of emotions, which is what I originally responded to. I guess we can drop this part as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    That's simply not true as per the link I posted above.


    Your link doesn't deter what I said. Sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    and then there's this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_self-reflection

    Apparently some animals have shown some abilities but to what extent, wasn't said.
    I'm not sure what human self-reflection has to do with any of this. What's important is self-awareness, which has been shown to exist within certain animals such as dolphins, some apes, and elephants. They are aware of themselves. Specifically, its these animals that exhibit the range of emotions most similar to humans. Your presumption that they have less emotions is, quite simply, entirely unfounded. Even scientists don't fully know what they're capable of on a mental level, and we're all the time discovering more and more about animals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Either way, self-reflection and self-conscious/awareness is required to have these complex range of emotions as clearly stated.
    It never said self-awareness is required generally. What it stated was that self-awareness is required for those specific emotions or social reflections to exist.
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    Arguably the sole drive throughout most of life is genetic replication, (i.e. to pass on your genes). Innumerable constructs and manifestations of this basic drive deceive the "advanced" human mind into action. Abstractly we call our attractions to potential mates "love" and excuse the vulgarity (if connoted as such) of procreation by articulation as "making love." While undeniably there is a bond between mates during sexual reproduction, the sole intent (manifestation of basic human need) is genetic replication. such similar bonds are established via any form of human connection.

    As stated previously, the advanced (or more appropriately convoluted) mind causes a detachment of a basic understanding of this integral need/function. We see such manifestations routinely reflected in everyday life. For instance men crave, young fertile women (in their prime) as mates for genetic replication. Essentially due to the risk chromosomal/genetic damage that is likely to occur in female mates over the age of 35. This is even reflected in $#@!sexual relations where there is a (genetically-based) predisposition for younger mates. Similarly, big breasts are desired from a subconscious association/connection with them being able to supply adequate milk for the offspring. The same with voluptuous hips which would ensure a problem-free birth. These feminine characteristics are epitomized in pornography.

    Conversely, women may be more attracted to older men because they offer "safety" or security in supporting the success of the females offspring. This does not come without the caveat of secure (and at times non-secure) striving to procreate with younger more virile makes due to preferential for their genetic code. But this dichotomy is rarely expressed in males (having older female partners).

    In summation we strive for a genetically perfect mate, because we ultimately must split/share our genetic code with another. But more often than not we make concessions, because the urge/need to procreate is stronger than our need for preference of perfection. Once we make this concession, and find a mate, we create artificial constructs such as "love" in order to rationalize the animalistic or natural desire for procreation.



    Tapatalk at the laundromat, excuse grammatical errors

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    ^ LOL. Ok Poindexter.


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    That's not the sole purpose of humans. All organisms need to reproduce, it's just natural. There has to be a purpose for humans other then sex, for why is that we're the only organisms that can talk? (Parrots don't count..) God did not put humans on Earth to mainly have sex. Therefore, since we have a higher intellect then other animals, it is only obvious that there is a much greater purpose for humans then having sex, what that purpose is, I don't know. That's for you to decide.




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