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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    I'm ready to see some games. This reveal can't come fast enough. For some reason, I can't shake that Drake and higs are going to start the ps4 out with a bang.
    I hope so. I can only imagine what KZ4 would be like on PS4.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    I'm ready to see some games. This reveal can't come fast enough. For some reason, I can't shake that Drake and higs are going to start the ps4 out with a bang.
    Ewww, unless Elena's a part of it.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  3. #153
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    Mynn, modern day PCs are definitely a lot more comparable to next gen consoles than 7-year-old technology regardless of the memory bus bit width, and the memory bit width by itself has little relevance to the actual memory bandwidth speeds.

    And I am not talking in circles. All I have ever said are three things: the first being that what you said about "next gen consoles needing a GPU to be 2 and 1/4 times as powerful to get the exact same results we get now in 1080p instead" was untrue, and that it was inadequately worded in contrast to what you were saying after that. The second being that shadow maps are not that demanding, especially in comparison to other effects, and that there is no need for shadow map resolution to increase just because you bump the game resolution from 720p and 1080p. And the third being that modern-day PCs are a lot more comparable to next gen consoles than 7-year-old consoles.

    You are right that it will require 2½ more power if you bump up the game resolution from 720p to 1080p and also bump up demand of all other effects along with that. But the thing is that the bold is additional information that needs to be specified or else it is understood that you are just talking about the game resolution and the game resolution alone. It is as you said that there is no reason for other effects to scale up in demand along with the resolution increase, and thus it is just additional information. I mostly just wanted to point out that MonkeyClaw's response to you was correct, but the problem lied with your statement being inadequately worded and incomplete. It's like NASCAR fan seeing a blue car and saying "that car red" when he really meant to say "that car is red hot." Additional info isn't always necessary, but in the case of both the NASCAR fan's and yours, that additional info is very much needed or else the statement loses its supposed, intended meaning; hence why Monkey and I responded differently to your post than what you had anticipated.

    Also, I'm really sorry if any of my posts have been redundant in any way. But to sum it up in another way, it honestly looks like you are posting things that end up incidentally being untrue and then add additional information out of nowhere to make it true; like when you said shadow maps are demanding if it is running on 7-year-old hardware or, again, the 1080p thing. It's okay to be wrong every now and then. We all make mistakes. Monkey just happened to be right about something. But the discussions and what you learn from them are what matters imo.
    Last edited by Foraeli; 01-11-2013 at 05:22.

  4. #154
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    Supposed PS4 GPU
    Gotta admit, everything makes sense and add 0.5 TF APU to this 1.3 TF GPU = 1.8TF console, as the rumours suggested originally.
    This puts PS4 20-30% faster than durango (1.2-1.5 TF speculation) which sounds ridiculous since nothing is confirmed

    Efficiency gains will make it rival 2-2.5TF hardware
    Last edited by Itachi; 01-11-2013 at 08:39.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    Mynn, modern day PCs are definitely a lot more comparable to next gen consoles than 7-year-old technology regardless of the memory bus bit width, and the memory bit width by itself has little relevance to the actual memory bandwidth speeds.

    And I am not talking in circles. All I have ever said are three things: the first being that what you said about "next gen consoles needing a GPU to be 2 and 1/4 times as powerful to get the exact same results we get now in 1080p instead" was untrue, and that it was inadequately worded in contrast to what you were saying after that. The second being that shadow maps are not that demanding, especially in comparison to other effects, and that there is no need for shadow map resolution to increase just because you bump the game resolution from 720p and 1080p. And the third being that modern-day PCs are a lot more comparable to next gen consoles than 7-year-old consoles.

    You are right that it will require 2½ more power if you bump up the game resolution from 720p to 1080p and also bump up demand of all other effects along with that. But the thing is that the bold is additional information that needs to be specified or else it is understood that you are just talking about the game resolution and the game resolution alone. It is as you said that there is no reason for other effects to scale up in demand along with the resolution increase, and thus it is just additional information. I mostly just wanted to point out that MonkeyClaw's response to you was correct, but the problem lied with your statement being inadequately worded and incomplete. It's like NASCAR fan seeing a blue car and saying "that car red" when he really meant to say "that car is red hot." Additional info isn't always necessary, but in the case of both the NASCAR fan's and yours, that additional info is very much needed or else the statement loses its supposed, intended meaning; hence why Monkey and I responded differently to your post than what you had anticipated.

    Also, I'm really sorry if any of my posts have been redundant in any way. But to sum it up in another way, it honestly looks like you are posting things that end up incidentally being untrue and then add additional information out of nowhere to make it true; like when you said shadow maps are demanding if it is running on 7-year-old hardware or, again, the 1080p thing. It's okay to be wrong every now and then. We all make mistakes. Monkey just happened to be right about something. But the discussions and what you learn from them are what matters imo.
    Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough in the original post.

    But for the record I said

    You need a GPU to be 2 and 1/4 times as powerful to get the exact same results we get now in 1080p instead.

    Not..

    You need a GPU to be 2 and 1/4 times as powerful to get the exact same results we get now in 1080p.

    Perhaps I did not fully explain what I meant by that.


    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Supposed PS4 GPU
    Gotta admit, everything makes sense and add 0.5 TF APU to this 1.3 TF GPU = 1.8TF console, as the rumours suggested originally.
    This puts PS4 20-30% faster than durango (1.2-1.5 TF speculation) which sounds ridiculous since nothing is confirmed

    Efficiency gains will make it rival 2-2.5TF hardware
    Anything is possible.
    Last edited by mynd; 01-11-2013 at 09:09.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  6. #156
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    Seems sony may go with 4gb DDR5 with MS going 8gb DDR3
    will be pretty interesting.

    Although wide IO or 2.5D stacking are being discussed as alternatives

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Seems sony may go with 4gb DDR5 with MS going 8gb DDR3
    will be pretty interesting.

    Although wide IO or 2.5D stacking are being discussed as alternatives
    That chip was nothing special. Here's the follow up link...

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...view,3196.html

    Who ever is giving you this info is grasping at straws from the looks of it.
    Last edited by mynd; 01-11-2013 at 09:22.
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    That chip was nothing special. Here's the follow up link...

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...view,3196.html

    Who ever is giving you this info is grasping at straws from the looks of it.
    I know these things are mere speculation but its a very good one. It fits in everything I've read up to this point. The chip IS a 78xx series, it IS less than 2TF like every devs has been saying on gaf bar any sony customization. I've read that the dev kits had better specs but all alphakits have better specs that the finalized hardware.

    Another wave of dev kits are going out this month and they will have close to final specs with summer dev kits being the same as the actual console

    I just share whatever discussion are going on at gaf and b3d
    Last edited by Itachi; 01-11-2013 at 09:38.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    I know these things are mere speculation but its a very good one. It fits in everything I've read up to this point. The chip IS a 78xx series, it IS less than 2TF like every devs has been saying on gaf bar any sony customization. I've read that the dev kits had better specs but all alphakits have better specs that the finalized hardware.

    Another wave of dev kits are going out this month and they will have close to final specs with summer dev kits being the same as the actual console

    I just share whatever discussion are going on at gaf and b3d
    Its all conjecture, no one with a NDA would ever post on there. Take what you read with a huge grain of salt.
    So far I only trust one source, and it gave me the code names 4 months before any one else broke them. It also lines up with most of the more solid leads.

    It even correctly predicted when the PS4 dev kits would release a year later.

    Edit: I do like the rumor about the Sega Arcade machine being a PS4.
    Last edited by mynd; 01-11-2013 at 09:57.
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  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    I know these things are mere speculation but its a very good one. It fits in everything I've read up to this point. The chip IS a 78xx series, it IS less than 2TF like every devs has been saying on gaf bar any sony customization. I've read that the dev kits had better specs but all alphakits have better specs that the finalized hardware.

    Another wave of dev kits are going out this month and they will have close to final specs with summer dev kits being the same as the actual console

    I just share whatever discussion are going on at gaf and b3d
    Weren't the dev kits from before the PS3's announcement quite a bit slower than the final versions? I wonder if the same thing is going on with the PS4/Orbis, maybe the final dev kits and PS4/Orbis system is a little faster than what we are seeing rumored at the moment...then again, the PS3 had the Cell architecture which was new tech at that time which would of delayed final full speed hardware coming out back then so early.


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  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    Seems sony may go with 4gb DDR5 with MS going 8gb DDR3
    will be pretty interesting.

    Although wide IO or 2.5D stacking are being discussed as alternatives
    Dont you mean 4GB GDDR5? which is why its impressive



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  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    Dont you mean 4GB GDDR5? which is why its impressive
    Yeah, very fast RAM for graphics loads, MS's DDR3 is more suited for OS base stuff
    It may bring some confusion as people will only read the amount of RAM and not the type of RAM.
    It seems Sony is going for a mixture of both the PS2's and PS3's strengths
    Speed, memory & bandwidth monster seems to be on the cards
    MS seems to be going with memory mainly
    Sent via Codec
    Last edited by TGO; 01-14-2013 at 11:06.

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  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGO View Post
    Yeah, very fast RAM for graphics loads, MS's DDR3 is more suited for OS base stuff
    It may bring some confusion as people will only read the amount of RAM and not the type of RAM.
    It seems Sony is going for a mixture of both the PS2's and PS3's strengths
    Speed, memory & bandwidth monster seems to be on the cards
    MS seems to be going with memory mainly
    Sent via Codec
    MS will once again be relying on Edram type of solution. Here's what's crazy: there are more durango insiders on gaf and it is being stated that customizations from MS allows the console to reach gtx680 levels of performance (that's a ~1.3TF GPU reaching 3TF real world performance). It also explain why all next gen demos were on a gtx 680 across the board.

    I'll believe it when I see but though it sure as hell is exciting

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGO View Post
    Yeah, very fast RAM for graphics loads, MS's DDR3 is more suited for OS base stuff
    It may bring some confusion as people will only read the amount of RAM and not the type of RAM.
    It seems Sony is going for a mixture of both the PS2's and PS3's strengths
    Speed, memory & bandwidth monster seems to be on the cards
    MS seems to be going with memory mainly
    Sent via Codec
    I don't see why one is more "suitable" than the other for OS tasks.. GDDR5 has a wider bus to provide more bandwith which graphics applications require. But I don't see why DDR3 would be more suitable for OS tasks than GDDR5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion View Post
    I don't see why one is more "suitable" than the other for OS tasks.. GDDR5 has a wider bus to provide more bandwith which graphics applications require. But I don't see why DDR3 would be more suitable for OS tasks than GDDR5.
    Yup, its always just been cheaper for OS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Yup, its always just been cheaper for OS.
    As in its cheaper to get 8gb of RAM(though obviously not all used for OS) of DDR3 then it is GDDR5
    Thats all I know is that is that DDR3 is more suited to their OS needs, which makes me think the next Xbox is gonna be OS heavy
    But isnt 360 OS heavy too (content wise)
    Sent via Codec
    Last edited by TGO; 01-14-2013 at 20:15.

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  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGO View Post
    As in its cheaper to get 8gb of RAM(though obviously not all used for OS) of DDR3 then it is GDDR5
    Thats all I know is that is that DDR3 is more suited to their OS needs, which makes me think the next Xbox is gonna be OS heavy
    But isnt 360 OS heavy too (content wise)
    Sent via Codec
    Its likely split 4gb ddr3 + 4gb gddr3 or 5.

    There is no way anyone is putting ddr3 into a gpu.

    I keep going back to the paste bin article. 1.2 teraflops was
    Likely the gpu rating and the ram specs (4gb for 360, 2gb for ps3) was likely either the vram or system ram specs.
    The past bin guy never really came across as a guy who knew exactly what the figures he was given meant.
    Last edited by mynd; 01-14-2013 at 23:43.
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  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Its likely split 4gb ddr3 + 4gb gddr3 or 5.

    There is no way anyone is putting ddr3 into a gpu.

    I keep going back to the paste bin article. 1.2 terflops was
    Likey the gpu rating and the ram specs (4gb for 360, 2gb for ps3) was likely either the vram or system ram specs.
    The past bin guy never really came across as a guy who knew exactly what the figures he was given meant.
    So you reckon we only seeing half the picture, I wish they would release some details
    All these rumours are getting ridiculous

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  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGO View Post
    So you reckon we only seeing half the picture, I wish they would release some details
    All these rumours are getting ridiculous

    Sent via Codec
    No one is going to hook a GPU up to DDR. Unless you want performance like an intel integrated chipset.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    No one is going to hook a GPU up to DDR. Unless you want performance like an intel integrated chipset.
    I think the GPU will have its own memory pool, don't ya think
    And as no info has been given on the GPU's that why we got no memory specs for it

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    Quote Originally Posted by TGO View Post
    I think the GPU will have its own memory pool, don't ya think
    And as no info has been given on the GPU's that why we got no memory specs for it

    Sent via Codec
    Absolutely
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  22. #172
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    Wouldn't this exacerbate the existing memory disparity between the two? If Sony is just stucking with 4-5GB of GDDR5 and the Durango has like 8GB with a split of DDR3 and DDR5...

    Couple this with the consistent rumors that it will be packaged with Kinect 2.0 and probably be profitable out the gate, I dunno. I think it's a given that the Durango will in fact be weaker than Orbis simply due to the insistence that Kinect 2.0 will be included with the device from the start.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Wouldn't this exacerbate the existing memory disparity between the two? If Sony is just stucking with 4-5GB of GDDR5 and the Durango has like 8GB with a split of DDR3 and DDR5...

    Couple this with the consistent rumors that it will be packaged with Kinect 2.0 and probably be profitable out the gate, I dunno. I think it's a given that the Durango will in fact be weaker than Orbis simply due to the insistence that Kinect 2.0 will be included with the device from the start.
    The fact it has Kinect 2.0 helps makes sense that the OS uses 3GB ram, 1.5GB probably dedicated to Kinect



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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    I hope so. I can only imagine what KZ4 would be like on PS4.
    Well im hoping the gameplay matches the graphics for a start. Killzone to me is what Sony hoped for a Halo killer which failed miserably.

    Personlly i think Killzone should retire in favour of a new ip as K3 failed to WOW as K2 did.
    Last edited by Flaw3d Genius; 01-20-2013 at 01:57.

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    Funny you should say that, considering Guerrilla Games dislike the franchise-killer terms. It was all game journalist hype to begin with.

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