Do you believe in Ghosts?

**Valefor** · 06-17-2012

Originally Posted by Abdou23

Other points you mentioned we could argue about for years and each one would still be convinced with his own beliefs. But i just wanted to comment on this.I was clarifying for someone that religion isn't controlling my life in any bad way or forcing me to do or not do stuff that i don't want.He said that he wanted to live free life with no God telling him how to live it.That means he wants to be free to kill or rob someone or destroy his health by using drugs for instance.But he still doesn't do it,and a lot of people may think about doing theses stuff or worse but don't,and you know why? not because they are all good people ( not 90% of the time ) but because they will go to prison for it.So you may not live by religion guidelines but you sure live by society guidelines. Cave men didn't have religion or society.You telling me they were good civilized people ? no survival of the fittest or killing each other over food ? What i'm saying is you don't become a good person on your own you need guideline to tell you what's good and what's bad.And society's guidelines originally came from religions then people made few tweaks to it. Following my religion guidelines makes a better person and i believe if all people followed them we will be living in Utopia.Bad thing is,not all people will follow.

Utopia? It would not be a utopia for women, or any other group religions see as lesser people. Look around the world at theocracies, and you can see how deficient those societies are when controlled on religious grounds. Then take a look at the secular world, and you will see a large difference when it comes to human rights and living standards.

And again, you are conveniently leaving out the horrendous teachings of religion, by cherry picking the nice parts. Ask yourself, how can people discard the evil teachings of religious books, if that very book is the only place from which they gain their morality? It's because morals can be gained from a variety of places, such as moral philosophy, and science (new understanding allows us to adapt the guidelines by which we live). Religions do not have the monopoly on morality, and in the present, religions are often lagging behind.

Make no mistake, in the future, people will look back - just as you have with cave men - and wonder why many people of this age lacked the morality to accept others as equals, regardless of, for example, their sexual orientation or gender.

**reasonable_doubt** · 06-17-2012

Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow

If you need a religion to make you act kindly to others then your just not a nice person.

BBK. Tapatalking.

not true. That's like saying if a country needs law than it citizen are not a civilized bunch.

we all need a reminder every now and than. like for example certain ppl need an infraction to remind them to be nice to others on PSU every now and than.

Even the nice one sometime loses it.

**Dave-The-Rave** · 06-17-2012

People don't need religion, they need morals. I'm not religous in the slightest..doesn't mean I don't have morals.

**Marcsony** · 06-17-2012

Ok ghosts/afterlife/god and such for me are not something ive experience personally however ill never pass it off as fake or false. im 30 years old now and have two kids and wife. in saying that yes i find some comfort in thinking that when i die i may be able to see them and other family. Although im skeptical due to lack of proof i would wish that this life is not all there is. If it is then yes i can see peoples points on why not just end it now as every action you take has no relevance or meaning in the greater scheme of things for the average man/woman in 200 years nothing you have done will ever be remembered or recognized.

now aliens .................................................. .................................

there is another story lol.

**SynYster505** · 06-17-2012

Originally Posted by Dave-The-Rave

Ghosts are just stupid, always a logical explanation for a "ghost" siting. (Wind, creaking doors..etc)

I also never got the fear of ghosts, sure if they existed they might freak you out a bit...but I doubt they could physically harm you.

Except the thing is, there isn't always a logical explanation. If people could explain everything they experience, we wouldn't be talking about if ghosts exist.

**Jaeger** · 06-17-2012

**itachi73378** · 06-17-2012

Originally Posted by smiggy

My impression of life is that there is no afterlife, knowing that I'm a good person in my only time alive and not for the sake of seeing some promised land when I die, to me, is not sad at all. I don't need anyone or anything to tell me how live my life or guide my morals.

EDIT- In response to OP, no I don't believe in ghosts, spirits, demons, angels or the soul or most 'supernatural' things mentioned in this thread so far.

I never said that everyone without a religion are a sadistic bunch

Originally Posted by Xelios

The only thing sad here is how narrow minded your view on it is. You act as if religion is your only comfort in life, and if you truly feel that way, then I feel for you.

Sigh....so it would seem I need to rephrase what I meant. I was just sad to hear that some people thought of death as lifeless ,dark and cold. It made me sad because if death truly is like that, then what was the point of even being born? If I was not religious I may have believed the same thing. Religion has guided my thinking and I'm happy for that.

Now you can continue to argue if that 'thinking' is correct or not, but that wasn't the point.

Also I would like to ask Valefor what "evil acts" does religion propagate? Its up to the followers to first study the religion thoroughly and then accept it. If they finds something wrong with it, they should never follow it in the first place.

**Valefor** · 06-17-2012

Originally Posted by itachi73378

I was just sad to hear that some people thought of death and lifeless ,dark and cold. It made me sad because if death truly is like that, then what was the point of even being born?

There doesn't have to be a point; not everything has one. You can still enjoy your life for what it is, however.

Originally Posted by itachi73378

Also I would like to ask Valefor what "evil acts" does religion propagate? Its up to the followers to first study the religion thoroughly and then accept it. If they finds something wrong with it, they should never follow it in the first place.

Well, there is the idea of martyrdom, and the suppression of women (e.g. a man's word is worth more than a woman's) to name just a couple. Saying it is 'up the followers' is a cop out, because many read the book literally. Of course, many just cherry pick the good parts and discard the bad parts, and in doing that, you show that morality can be gained from other sources - as I was saying to Abdou. And if you have to cherry pick, why bother following the religion at all? If the books are meant to be the teachings of a deity, yet its teachings are wrong (such as Adam and Eve), or are evil (suppression of women), then why bother with any of it?

One can believe in a deity, without the rubbish that organised religions teach - it's called deism.

**Abdou23** · 06-17-2012

Originally Posted by Valefor

Utopia? It would not be a utopia for women, or any other group religions see as lesser people. Look around the world at theocracies, and you can see how deficient those societies are when controlled on religious grounds. Then take a look at the secular world, and you will see a large difference when it comes to human rights and living standards.

And again, you are conveniently leaving out the horrendous teachings of religion, by cherry picking the nice parts. Ask yourself, how can people discard the evil teachings of religious books, if that very book is the only place from which they gain their morality? It's because morals can be gained from a variety of places, such as moral philosophy, and science (new understanding allows us to adapt the guidelines by which we live). Religions do not have the monopoly on morality, and in the present, religions are often lagging behind.

Make no mistake, in the future, people will look back - just as you have with cave men - and wonder why many people of this age lacked the morality to accept others as equals, regardless of, for example, their sexual orientation or gender.

No it will be utopia for everyone.I know my religion and i know what it says.You saying communities ruled by religion are lagging behind and there is Evil Teaching of religious books ?!! My religion,book,prophet never mentioned any evil,and as i said before my religion sees al people as equals no matter race-gender-colour.The fact that you saw some people kill or explode or do bad stuff in the name of that religion doesn't mean they are true and that religion allows that kind of acts believe me i know it.If you want to learn about what religion is really about and whether or not it has evil teachings you should read about it from it's sources. Again i cleared the point that people don't become good people on their own but people still argue about it,everyone of you thinks that he was just born perfect,but here one last example to prove you people wrong,When you were little children 4-5 years old you surly would go around the house breaking stuff,lying about it,don't care for other people feelings,only caring for your own needs,want to spend all your time playing and don't want any responsibility what so ever.Up until the age of 8-9 your parents would never punish you for any of these stuff,why ? because you are young and don't know what's right or wrong yet.So they teach you first,you make mistake and they teach you again, but then once you become 10 years old they start punish you,then 14-15 punishment may bet tougher,and once you reach 17-18 then you are matured enough to know what's right and what's wrong ( from your parents-school ) and your punishment becomes prison.No let's say as a little kid there was no one to teach you morals or give you guidlines of what you supposed to do ? you would grow to be 40 years old man doing same stuff you did as a baby and much much worse things.Believe you won't just turn into good person with absolutely no one or thing to teach you manners and moral.You now become a good person in life by gaining knowledge from your parents - school - tv - books or any other source.You are delusional and arrogant if you think you just become a good person on your own.

**Valefor** · 06-17-2012

Originally Posted by Abdou23

No it will be utopia for everyone.I know my religion and i know what it says.You saying communities ruled by religion are lagging behind and there is Evil Teaching of religious books ?!! My religion,book,prophet never mentioned any evil,and as i said before my religion sees al people as equals no matter race-gender-colour.The fact that you saw some people kill or explode or do bad stuff in the name of that religion doesn't mean they are true and that religion allows that kind of acts believe me i know it.If you want to learn about what religion is really about and whether or not it has evil teachings you should read about it from it's sources. Again i cleared the point that people don't become good people on their own but people still argue about it,everyone of you thinks that he was just born perfect,but here one last example to prove you people wrong,When you were little children 4-5 years old you surly would go around the house breaking stuff,lying about it,don't care for other people feelings,only caring for your own needs,want to spend all your time playing and don't want any responsibility what so ever.Up until the age of 8-9 your parents would never punish you for any of these stuff,why ? because you are young and don't know what's right or wrong yet.So they teach you first,you make mistake and they teach you again, but then once you become 10 years old they start punish you,then 14-15 punishment may bet tougher,and once you reach 17-18 then you are matured enough to know what's right and what's wrong ( from your parents-school ) and your punishment becomes prison.No let's say as a little kid there was no one to teach you morals or give you guidlines of what you supposed to do ? you would grow to be 40 years old man doing same stuff you did as a baby and much much worse things.Believe you won't just turn into good person with absolutely no one or thing to teach you manners and moral.You now become a good person in life by gaining knowledge from your parents - school - tv - books or any other source.You are delusional and arrogant if you think you just become a good person on your own.

I'll reply to this shortly, but can you please use paragraphs? It makes it very hard to read.

Also, please state your religion, so that I may tailor my reply to you.

**Abdou23** · 06-17-2012

Originally Posted by Valefor

There doesn't have to be a point; not everything has one. You can still enjoy your life for what it is, however.

Well, there is the idea of martyrdom, and the suppression of women (e.g. a man's word is worth more than a woman's) to name just a couple. Saying it is 'up the followers' is a cop out, because many read the book literally. Of course, many just cherry pick the good parts and discard the bad parts, and in doing that, you show that morality can be gained from other sources - as I was saying to Abdou. And if you have to cherry pick, why bother following the religion at all? If the books are meant to be the teachings of a deity, yet its teachings are wrong (such as Adam and Eve), or are evil (suppression of women), then why bother with any of it?

One can believe in a deity, without the rubbish that organised religions teach - it's called deism.

Originally Posted by Valefor

I'll reply to this shortly, but can you please use paragraphs? It makes it very hard to read.

Also, please state your religion, so that I may tailor my reply to you.

I'm a Muslim.And you are gaining your knowledge about it from your media which is very very wrong.As i said people who do acts in the name of it doesn't mean that they are true or Islam allows it.Believe me not at all. Martyrdom is not allowed by Islam the way those people use it.In Islam it means dying in a war defending your country-religion or even honour. Not blowing yourself up and killing bunch of civilians. ( and it doesn't demand you to die it just says that if you died doing so you will go to heaven). and Islam gave the woman more rights than you think,Islam honours the woman and gives here a very important rule to play in society.

As i said if you want to learn about it go to the source not the media and not ordinary people who can give you false information about it even if they follow that same religion.I wan't cherry picking i just can't find bad stuff my religion says to mention it.Everything forbidden or obligatory by my religion have a very reasonable reasons behind it only if you look for it.

**Valefor** · 06-17-2012

Originally Posted by Abdou23

No it will be utopia for everyone.I know my religion and i know what it says.You saying communities ruled by religion are lagging behind and there is Evil Teaching of religious books ?!! My religion,book,prophet never mentioned any evil,and as i said before my religion sees al people as equals no matter race-gender-colour.The fact that you saw some people kill or explode or do bad stuff in the name of that religion doesn't mean they are true and that religion allows that kind of acts believe me i know it.

It sees all as equals? The inequalities inherent in Muslim theocracies disagree with you.

Originally Posted by Abdou23

If you want to learn about what religion is really about and whether or not it has evil teachings you should read about it from it's sources. Again i cleared the point that people don't become good people on their own but people still argue about it,everyone of you thinks that he was just born perfect,but here one last example to prove you people wrong,When you were little children 4-5 years old you surly would go around the house breaking stuff,lying about it,don't care for other people feelings,only caring for your own needs,want to spend all your time playing and don't want any responsibility what so ever.Up until the age of 8-9 your parents would never punish you for any of these stuff,why ? because you are young and don't know what's right or wrong yet.So they teach you first,you make mistake and they teach you again, but then once you become 10 years old they start punish you,then 14-15 punishment may bet tougher,and once you reach 17-18 then you are matured enough to know what's right and what's wrong ( from your parents-school ) and your punishment becomes prison.No let's say as a little kid there was no one to teach you morals or give you guidlines of what you supposed to do ? you would grow to be 40 years old man doing same stuff you did as a baby and much much worse things.Believe you won't just turn into good person with absolutely no one or thing to teach you manners and moral.You now become a good person in life by gaining knowledge from your parents - school - tv - books or any other source.You are delusional and arrogant if you think you just become a good person on your own.

I have never said a person learns everything that is good on their own. I have said people gain their morality from a variety of sources. Religion can be a source, but there are many sources. One does not need a religion to live a moral life.

Originally Posted by Abdou23

I'm a Muslim.And you are gaining your knowledge about it from your media which is very very wrong.As i said people who do acts in the name of it doesn't mean that they are true or Islam allows it.Believe me not at all. Martyrdom is not allowed by Islam the way those people use it.In Islam it means dying in a war defending your country-religion or even honour. Not blowing yourself up and killing bunch of civilians. ( and it doesn't demand you to die it just says that if you died doing so you will go to heaven). and Islam gave the woman more rights than you think,Islam honours the woman and gives here a very important rule to play in society.

I didn't really need to ask your religion, as I said before, most people's religions are determined merely by where they live (if your location of Egypt is correct).

Honour? Yes, we have had some 'honour' killings over here in the UK recently. They didn't seem particularly honourable. I hope you can see the problem people are having in interpreting the book.

Islam 'gave the woman more rights than you think'. Your language here is very revealing. Women should have all the rights of men, and women can decide for themselves which role in society they wish to have. It's called liberty. Women are equal to men, regardless of what the book says.

Originally Posted by Abdou23

As i said if you want to learn about it go to the source not the media and not ordinary people who can give you false information about it even if they follow that same religion.I wan't cherry picking i just can't find bad stuff my religion says to mention it.Everything forbidden or obligatory by my religion have a very reasonable reasons behind it only if you look for it.

Is the Quran not a good enough source for me to use? If you can't find anything wrong with it, then there are only 3 reasons for this:

1) You haven't read it all yourself.
2) Cognitive dissonance.
3) You agree with the teachings I and many others think are evil.

**Abdou23** · 06-17-2012

Originally Posted by Valefor

It sees all as equals? The inequalities inherent in Muslim theocracies disagree with you.

Examples please.

Originally Posted by Valefor

I have never said a person learns everything that is good on their own. I have said people gain their morality from a variety of sources. Religion can be a source, but there are many sources. One does not need a religion to live a moral life.

Other people in this thread said so.I may confused your post with others.

Originally Posted by Valefor

I didn't really need to ask your religion, as I said before, most people's religions are determined merely by where they live (if your location of Egypt is correct).

yes but if i see that my religion is wrong and i'm not satisfied with it i can convert.

Originally Posted by Valefor

Honour? Yes, we have had some 'honour' killings over here in the UK recently. They didn't seem particularly honourable. I hope you can see the problem people are having in interpreting the book.

I already explained martyrdom concept in Islam and i couldn't be more clearer. this is just wast of time

Originally Posted by Valefor

Islam 'gave the woman more rights than you think'. Your language here is very revealing. Women should have all the rights of men, and women can decide for themselves which role in society they wish to have. It's called liberty. Women are equal to men, regardless of what the book says.

Islam made the woman equal to the man,again you speaking from past knowledge based on false sources.Only two things a woman is not equal with the man in:
1- She can't become ruler or judge ( because women by nature can get emotional and their decisions would be affected by it )
2- In heritage woman get half the man because in Islam the man is the one who is responsible for covering his family expenses ( this doesn't mean women cannot work )

Originally Posted by Valefor

Is the Quran not a good enough source for me to use? If you can't find anything wrong with it, then there are only 3 reasons for this:

1) You haven't read it all yourself.
2) Cognitive dissonance.
3) You agree with the teachings I and many others think are evil.

1- i did and why would you say that?
2- ?????
3- Please,give me examples of bad teachings from the Quran

**Valefor** · 06-17-2012

I'll reply to you tomorrow, Abdou. It's getting late here.

**Abdou23** · 06-17-2012

Originally Posted by Valefor

I'll reply to you tomorrow, Abdou. It's getting late here.

Listen it's just friendly conversation i don't mean to prove you are wrong or living your life wrong or anything and i'm sure you don't mean it too.I was just clarifying some things and people don't have to be convinced or anything.So it's not the matter of who wins this conv.

**mickice** · 06-17-2012

Why convert? No one religion is a prefect representation or answer to life, what we all need to do is find the person we are and what we are willing to fight for. I have never had religion or its teachings in my life yet I carry all the quslities of an honourable, kind, selfless humanbeing.

**itachi73378** · 06-17-2012

The idea of absolute equality is ridiculous. Men and women have the same rights, but in some areas they cannot be equal, because if they were meant to be completely equal there would have been no distinction between man and woman.

Women rights argument is getting really old and lame. It was in fact religion that improved the condition of women in the old days. Arabs used to bury female children and Egyptians thought women were a sign of demons.

On topic: I'm really surprised so many member here have had unexplainable things happened to them.