Was the bombing of Japan justifed?

[Rapture]

I want to see where you guys carry this subject.

[Lethal_NFS]

Hiroshima and Nagasaki? This is going to cause issues lol.

[MATRIX 2]

Yes.

/end thread

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_..._over_bombings

[Fijiandoce]

No.

thread reopened

really though, was it a decisive end to a war? yes.
but bombing civilians is not cool. US have a somewhat double standard with civilian lives.....

[btbam]

With 20/20 hindsight it is easy to say "hell no! of course not!" but at the time, it was widely believed that the Japanese were fervent and ultra-nationalists and would drag the war out to every last man possible. From our perspective, we saved more american lives dropping the bombs because it would force the Japanese to surrender faced with that kind of power. Infact, the only reason we dropped the second bomb was because we didn't think it had the desired effect of shock and horror. In reality it did, but it was so devastating they were still taking the damage in when the second dropped. There are some arguments that the war would have ended in a couple months anyway, but we did not know that at the time. Do i feel remorse over the lives lost? absolutely. war is vicious and abhorrent. but based on the information they had, it was the right thing to do so i stand by that decision. Yes it was appropriate, yes it was necessary, yes it was one of the greatest human tragedies on this planet.

[Blacksite]

I'd call it a necessary evil. How else would you expect Japan to concede defeat?

[Lethal_NFS]

It does not matter if we think it was justified or not. It happened over 60yrs ago and at the time it needed to be done. Naturally we do not know what times were like then and it is easy to say that today using such tactics is not justifiable. But then again, we are not living in 1945..

[Fon]

Like, Blacksite said it was at the time, a necessary evil. The innocent will perish from the acts of evil. The Japanese are strong believers of honor so despite their inferior technological equipment, they still posed a serious challenge to America. Okinawa was said to be the most brutal and the campaign of island hopping towards Japan made them lose more then they expected. The invasion on Japan had a projected 1 million American casualties which is staggering compared to what we lost in World War II against Germany. I'm assuming that civilian casualties as a result of an invasion would be enormous in comparison to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. In order to save lives you need to end lives.

Was it justified?. I can't say, I have a double standard on this stance because I will never agree to the annihilation of people regardless of race but without such aggressive actions, a greater deal of people would of perished due to the decisions of the Japanese Empire. In the end, Japan lost it's rights to an empire but received freedom as a result.

[mooninites]

No one here can answer that. We've never lived during that time. We don't know what they knew at that time, how their mind set was and a bunch of other factors.

Knowing what we know now, it's a huge tragedy that should have never taken place.

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[-Kwesnoth-]

Whether is justified or not it happened. Would it happen today under the same circumstances? I doubt Obama, or Bush for that matter would have had the balls to order it done.

[DayWalker]

in my opinion no. Growing up in the era that I/we have... I have a hard time supporting the intentional targeting of civilians. Remember that these cities had no military value.

If it were me I would have done the deserted island demo first. But there may have been a legit reason why that would not have been effective.

That said... it ended a terrible war, saved millions of american lives, and served to cement the US as a world power with a deterrent that it was not hesitant to use against future foes.

[itachi73378]

Obviously it was a very evil decision, but I don't know if it was justifiable.
Warheads of today can cause tens of thousands times the size of the hiroshima blasts. There is NO justification of nuclear war today. Period

[Mael Duin]

There is also a theory that it wasn't nuclear bombs that ended the war, it was the Soviets who decided to attack Japan. Seeing that it was better to surrender to USA was better choice, Japan decided to do that in order to keep their culture and way of life. Believed that if it were Soviets, the culture of Japan would have been lost.

[bash]

Since when does US need justification to do anything? They are always bombing shit and starting wars.

[Dave-The-Rave]

NO.

/end thread

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_..._over_bombings

Fixed.

Nothing should ever be taken to such extremes. Put it this way, if there was a war now how would you like it if one of those was dropped on your innocent ass?

[The Black Wolf]

I agree with btbam. Yes lots of people got killed and for a while it effected Japan, but that's part of war. U.S. Troops are fighting today to protect us and they also take lives every day to defend us.

[squirrelbo1]

Like, Blacksite said it was at the time, a necessary evil. The innocent will perish from the acts of evil. The Japanese are strong believers of honor so despite their inferior technological equipment, they still posed a serious challenge to America. Okinawa was said to be the most brutal and the campaign of island hopping towards Japan made them lose more then they expected. The invasion on Japan had a projected 1 million American casualties which is staggering compared to what we lost in World War II against Germany. I'm assuming that civilian casualties as a result of an invasion would be enormous in comparison to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. In order to save lives you need to end lives.

Was it justified?. I can't say, I have a double standard on this stance because I will never agree to the annihilation of people regardless of race but without such aggressive actions, a greater deal of people would of perished due to the decisions of the Japanese Empire. In the end, Japan lost it's rights to an empire but received freedom as a result.

The Japanese empire although a dictatorship was nit like north Korea or Egypt or libya. The people enjoyed many freedoms except they couldn't vote.

Never would have been a million. At the time and for years after it was said it would have saved 500 thousand American lives, but in truth actual military planners has the possible death toll around 70 k.

The real issue with the bomb was that they had it, and the intention had always been to use it. It was seen as any other weapon. The didn't really know its true destructive nature. Furthermore if they had of gone ahead with a land invasion, and then the news that they possessed this weapon got put, there would have been an uncontrollable public outcry back home. There was also the underlying issue of racism. An American life was worth much more than a Japanese life. Dropping the bomb made sense.

Also remember that dropping bombs on civilians was the done thing. Allied planes killed 100k people in Dresden in one night. And Japanese cities were almost bombed out anyway. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen on part because they were relatively still in tact. Bombing of Japanese cities was lessened on the days prior to the bomb so there was enough stuff left to sufficiently demonstrate the bombs power.


To answer op. First one not sure, arguably yes. Second one, no. Never should have been dropped, the Japanese were going to surrender they just didn't get enough time.

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[Jaeger]

Simply put, yes. America needed Japan to concede and what better way to force them to do than by demonstrating the power of their atomic bombs. While it is a shame so many innocent civilians were killed, many of them families and young children, it's something that was needed in order for America to claim their victory. It does make me wonder, though, if America needed to do something similar in this day and age with the war in Iraq, would Obama actually have the balls to give the go ahead?

[Dave-The-Rave]

Looks like a just cause to me..

http://www.fogonazos.es/2007/02/hiro...ant-us_05.html

If anything this is exactly the reason why all atomic bombs should be destroyed worldwide. They went too far, and just the notion that there are things still out there capable of doing this its unnerving. Could you imagine, one mad man gets his hands on one of these and we could be vaporised in an instant.

They went way too far.

[Jaeger]

They went way too far.

But if America hadn't dropped the bombs, how long would it have been until Japan did something of the same magnitude? You have to remember that both USA and Japan had advanced technology (advanced for that day and age, anyway) so if America hadn't done it, Japan would've.

[Lethal_NFS]

Japan sucker punched us, we punched back. It obviously worked and today it shows that it was the correct choice. The US and Japan have been allies ever since.

[three3-times]

Good to see this topic being discussed civilly thus far

[Shibby]

My face when seeing the thread title.



Seeing an educated and civil discussion was the last thing I expected lol.

My opinion:

Yes. For reasons already stated. We don't know how things would have played out had Japan's hand not been forced by way of the bombs, but you can be sure whatever that would have been wouldn't have been pretty either. It ended the war. In a war there is always collateral damage. They didn't know just how destructive it was going to be. The radiation is something they never really accounted for iirc.

[F34R]

Ya never know really.

[-Kwesnoth-]

But if America hadn't dropped the bombs, how long would it have been until Japan did something of the same magnitude? You have to remember that both USA and Japan had advanced technology (advanced for that day and age, anyway) so if America hadn't done it, Japan would've.

No, the next immediate step was a full scale marine invasion. Which could have played out for months, or even years, costing both sides innumerable losses.