so.... did Xbox 360 need Blu-ray at all?

[F34R]

Well, clearly Microsoft saw a demand for making the DVDs larger with their update that increased the storage on each DVD.

It was mainly for the new security features.

[Lethal_NFS]

While I haven't seen any advantages with Blu-Ray related to graphics or game length (none at all actually), what I have seen is the ability to provide multiple audio languages on the disk, as well as TruHD/7.1 sound. Those are huge files, and they are something that the DVD's would not be able to carry (not to mention, the Xbox doesn't support 7.1/TruHD).

Uncharted? Each game is over 20gb. That is all due to the graphics.

[Cuguy]

Uncharted? Each game is over 20gb. That is all due to the graphics.

Not entirely true. Partially, yes, but the data on the discs was replicated to speed up seek time. The actual game data is between 8-10 GB, not 20.

I will dig up the link if you want, but I remember early on one of the ISO sites out there had it broken down like that. Replicated data to aid the slow seek of the blu-ray for the seamless streaming of the game.

I mean Lair was 23GB because they needed to layer the data a couple of times to stream those huge open areas. Game data dump size really is a misleading thing, as MANY of the games are not written ONCE on a BR disc. SOME are, but in those cases of massive file sizes, it is due to the fact that the dev's don't need to compress textures or audio. I think if memory serves, HR has a 8GB audio file...

[Fijiandoce]

Uncharted? Each game is over 20gb. That is all due to the graphics.

i'll add RAGE to that. the megatextures in that are gigabytes in size. as a result, RAGE comes on 4 DVD's.
ideally, this is the better option for consoles as megatextures take up less ram than normal texture methods (of which consoles have little) so this technology is heavily limited by the medium it is put on....the DVD.

[mynd]

Uncharted? Each game is over 20gb. That is all due to the graphics.

They used FMV pre-rendered cutscenes as well as the data replicaiton mentioned above.

And yip Rage is about the only Tech I can see that is so resource hungry.

[F34R]

don't forget that the audio, language files, replicated data, fmv cutscenes, etc...

Anyways...

[radgamer420]

They used FMV pre-rendered cutscenes as well as the data replicaiton mentioned above. And yip Rage is about the only Tech I can see that is so resource hungry.

Looks like 360 version of Max Payne 3 is also two discs. http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Max...scs-41725.html

[Ghost-Rhayne]

Looks like 360 version of Max Payne 3 is also two discs. http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Max...scs-41725.html

Multi disc games in this day and age is a joke. MS gets away with it, but really...IIRC, last time I swapped discs on a PlayStation console was with Metal Gear Solid...14 years ago.

[MjW]

Sure it could have benefited from it, but need? I believe sales and adoption answer the question.

[dc89]

360 doesn't need it but the new console will.

DVD9 is really showing its age. Case in point, Halo 4 where you need 8GB memory to install certain features.

[mynd]

Looks like 360 version of Max Payne 3 is also two discs. http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Max...scs-41725.html

Yeah it did, still would have all fit on probably 11gb though. Don't forget as soon as you go over 2 disc a certain portion is repeated data. No where near 20gb.

[Soldier 95B]

Uncharted? Each game is over 20gb. That is all due to the graphics.

There are other games that look as good as, and better than Uncharted as well (IMO), and they are on DVD, and have similar length campaigns. It's really down to the sound files as well as less compression.

[three3-times]

There are other games that look as good as, and better than Uncharted as well (IMO), and they are on DVD, and have similar length campaigns. It's really down to the sound files as well as less compression.

Like gears3?

Thats only recent single dvd game i can think off that was pretty close to that.

[F34R]

360 games don't have to look better than PS3 games to conclude whether or not the 360 needed to be using blu-ray. Lol, this thread has lost any stars it earned at this point. Ffs, might as well say they needed the cpu from the PS3, console shape, and Kevin Butler. lol

[Soldier 95B]

Like gears3?

Thats only recent single dvd game i can think off that was pretty close to that.

Not a debate I am discussing. However, IMO, I feel the only need for Blu-ray this gen, SO FAR, has been for the audio/language. I haven't seen it used for improved graphics or game length. Again, IMO.

[DarkVincent07]

Either way, blu ray is more space which means less restrictions for developers right? Maybe this gen didn't fully show the need or desire for it but I'm sure the next will.


Via Tapatalk

[Blacksite]

Not entirely true. Partially, yes, but the data on the discs was replicated to speed up seek time. The actual game data is between 8-10 GB, not 20.

I will dig up the link if you want, but I remember early on one of the ISO sites out there had it broken down like that. Replicated data to aid the slow seek of the blu-ray for the seamless streaming of the game.

I mean Lair was 23GB because they needed to layer the data a couple of times to stream those huge open areas. Game data dump size really is a misleading thing, as MANY of the games are not written ONCE on a BR disc. SOME are, but in those cases of massive file sizes, it is due to the fact that the dev's don't need to compress textures or audio. I think if memory serves, HR has a 8GB audio file...

I'm not quite sure what you mean by Blu-ray games being written more than once. I was under the impression that it works the same way as any other optical disk format, the only difference being how much data you could store.

Uncharted games, for example, don't really have any large, open areas. Some levels might be structured to appear that way but they're usually linear.

[Soldier 95B]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by Blu-ray games being written more than once.

Here is an example:

The Sony PlayStation 3’s Blu-ray drive is causing some serious issues for Bethesda Softworks port of The Elder Scrolls IV : Oblivion as they try and bring it to Sony’s next-generation console.

Bethesda’s Todd Howard explained recently in an interview with the magazine Electronic Gaming Monthly that the developer is having to duplicate a lot of the game data on the Blu-ray disk many times in order to try and improve load times for the game.

He went on to explain that the team is finding that load times on the PlayStation 3 are actually slower than that of the Xbox 360 version and that duplicating data on the far larger Blu-ray storage capacity is being attempted by Bethesda to find a solution.

Howard told EGM that “Drive speed matters more to me than capacity, and Blu-ray is slower.”

With a quality developer such as Bethesda it is likely that they will find a solution to the issue before the game is launched but it is disturbing to see that the Xbox 360 may actually end up with faster load times than the more powerful PlayStation 3.

From Google cache, but reference was originally from here:

http://www.ps3center.net/story-199.html

[mynd]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by Blu-ray games being written more than once. I was under the impression that it works the same way as any other optical disk format, the only difference being how much data you could store.

Uncharted games, for example, don't really have any large, open areas. Some levels might be structured to appear that way but they're usually linear.

No no, what he measn is that the same data is on mulitple places on the disk.
Seek times on BR are slow that is your say, reading a file half way through the disc, and have to stop, and read a file (say a sound effect) that somewhere at the start of the disc, then go back to where you were ot conitue loading you end up with very slow load times.

For example a level might consist of standard animaiton files (walk/run etc), standard sounds (bang/thump etc), and them some level specific stuff..

Normally youd have

Load "Sound file1"
Load "animaiton File 1"
Load "Level 1".

You might then proceed to level 2...

Load "Sound File1"
Load "Animaiton File 1"
Load "Level 2".

To get around the slow seek times they pack it all in together...

So level 1 might be

Load "Data1 file"=Sound File 1+Animation File 1+Level 1

Level 2:
Load "Data2 file"=Sound File 1+Animation File 1+Level 2


End result, Sound File1 and Animation File1 is repeated data in every file.


Normally
Sound (100mb)+Animation (100mb)+Level (100mb) + Level 2(100mb)=400mb

Becomes

Data1 (300mb), Data 2 (300mb)=600 mb

[Sub-stance1]

No, the 360 didn't need BR but would of been a nice addition. There is still no guarantee that the next xbox will use it for games either.

[Blacksite]

I see what you mean. Thanks for the explanation.

[sainraja]

I'll never understand why there is an expectation of something being introduced (that offers something better or more) when it's needed.

If you are going to introduce a format that offers more space, it's best to do it when you can get by NOT having it over introducing it when things are cutting it close in the format you included.

I don't see that as an argument against Blu-ray.

[coolguy]

Ms was smart not useing blu-ray on the 360 it did not need it but the 720 will need it

[radgamer420]

Some developers seemed to think so. http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/09/16/x...-and-pc-games/

[acryllicaltair]

said it at the start of the generation that it wasnt needed, have not seen anything this generation that makes me change my mind