Gun sales skyrocket after Colorado massacre

[Vulgotha]

Different guns have different power.

This doesn't answer my question. A shotgun shooting pellets or slugs can blow a human being apart just fine, and it works just as well against deer, ducks and the like. So what's your problem with AK's and AR15's?

I have a big problem with this statement. Self Defense DOES NOT always mean killing a person.

If a guy attacks you with his fists, all you have to do is shoot him in the knees, conflict ended. It's the same way if he had a gun. Disable him, but killing is not always necessary.

Now I can understand if killing is an absolute must, but a lot of times it's not. The Jayvon Martin case comes to mind. He didn't have to kill that boy even if it was in self defense. Shooting him is one thing, but that man shot to kill.

Like I said, I'm not hoping for gun bans, for gun regulations.

Trayvon Martin? From all I've read in that situation if I were in Zimmerman's shoes and that kid was whaling on me I'd have absolutely blown to him to pieces. Self defense means defending yourself against a threat- you can't always know if they intend to be lethal or not. Frankly that's irrelevant.

If a guy tried to beat me up with his fist, yea I'd draw my gun on him. I'd warn him. If he came at me even after that warning yea I'd shoot him.


@Matrix

Oi, you did not just diss on the 1911 TACOPS. It's a beautiful 1911, if not one of the BEST out there you can buy. Right up there with the Springfield Operator and miles ahead of the Loaded model.

you wound me man! =(

[DeviousOne]

I live 20 mins from where that whole Travon Martin thing happen...Im just tired of hearing about it but Sanford is a racist place anyone that lives in central fl KNOWS this. Ive been there plently of times to know it is however no one has ever given me problems when ive been out there

[MATRIX 2]

So true, man.

Americans and their gun obsession...

Germans and their political correctness obsession...

[Wrath]

Germans and their political correctness obsession...

[Completely Average]

I have a big problem with this statement. Self Defense DOES NOT always mean killing a person.

If a guy attacks you with his fists, all you have to do is shoot him in the knees, conflict ended. It's the same way if he had a gun. Disable him, but killing is not always necessary.

Naivety at it's finest.


In the real world the only way to "disable" someone is to kill them. If someone can still move then they can, AND WILL shoot back.

I realize you're just a kid, and haven't really experienced the realities of shooting people. Rather than writing a long explaination as to why you're wrong in your beliefs, I will simply tell you to Google the story of Daniel Inouye, who destroyed a German machine gun nest after having his arm blown off.

There is no such thing as 'disabled". If they can move, they can attack.

[DayWalker]

I'd rather have an idiot beside me with a gun who may end up saving my life than...not having one.

I admire your optimism. However my argument centers on the fact that idiot(s) are far more likely to kill you than save you...

Right, because Police Officers receive training that is so superior, right?

:rollseyes:

You would be shocked if you know how lax the standards are for most police departments weapons qualifications. Also most police officers aren't interested in guns so they have little reason to practice with their weapon outside of qualification.

And I'd rather take my chances with a fully armed theater than with a completely unarmed theater.

I'm not sure what you want me to do with this...
you seem to be countering with "well nobody is properly trained to use a firearm"... I don't think this helps your case...???

It's one of our rights here so of course we take it seriously. All people should take their rights seriously.

Of course they should. That doesn't mean that you do away with any and all common sense laws/rules/regulations...

its funny... most of you feel the exact same way about "the masses" as I do... until the topic turns to guns. Then all of a sudden everyone is competent and responsible and should be given the benefit of the doubt... its quite entertaining

[MATRIX 2]

I admire your optimism. However my argument centers on the fact that idiot(s) are far more likely to kill you than save you...



I'm not sure what you want me to do with this...
you seem to be countering with "well nobody is properly trained to use a firearm"... I don't think this helps your case...???



Of course they should. That doesn't mean that you do away with any and all common sense laws/rules/regulations...

its funny... most of you feel the exact same way about "the masses" as I do... until the topic turns to guns. Then all of a sudden everyone is competent and responsible and should be given the benefit of the doubt... its quite entertaining

I'm saying that while there will be some idiots out there, most gun owners have a genuine interest in firearms that motivates them to practice to hone their skills, unlike most police officers who rarely do more than the req. minimum which is usually insufficient.

You do understand how a right works? You cannot take it away with legislation. Should gun owners practice/have training before they use/carry their guns, yes. Should they be forced to, to exercise their right, no.

[DayWalker]

I'm saying that while there will be some idiots out there, most gun owners have a genuine interest in firearms that motivates them to practice to hone their skills, unlike most police officers who rarely do more than the req. minimum which is usually insufficient.

You do understand how a right works? You cannot take it away with legislation. Should gun owners practice/have training before they use/carry their guns, yes. Should they be forced to, to exercise their right, no.

still don't get your point...

... am I mistaken or don't you already have to have some "basic" (although I'm not sure it qualifies as even that) training in order to have a carry/conceal license...

and if so... then your post doesn't make any sense.

[DeviousOne]

[Sufi]

I admire your optimism. However my argument centers on the fact that idiot(s) are far more likely to kill you than save you...

You mean in a different scenario where there isn't a psycho shooting at me already?

In a situation such as the one just occurred, I'd rather someone had a gun other than the shooter himself.

In a different situation like the shooting of trayvon? I can agree there.

[DayWalker]

You mean in a different scenario where there isn't a psycho shooting at me already?

In a situation such as the one just occurred, I'd rather someone had a gun other than the shooter himself.

In a different situation like the shooting of trayvon? I can agree there.

yes and no.

imagine that god forbid you are in a situation where a psycho comes into a dark theater throws gas grenades and starts shooting... and you're surrounded by people with guns... I don't think its much of a reach to assume that in the chaos people start shooting at each other...

... I don't like the idea of being shot by the psycho... or my some idiot who thinks he's John Wayne and mistakenly thinks I am the psycho... or just some idiot with a gun who's shoe I stepped on...

...in fact I am pretty anti-being shot period

[radgamer420]

Not only do they want protection, but they probably figure it's a good idea to stock up on weapons before the government increases gun control.

Yep, you got that right.

[radgamer420]

If a properly trained individual with a license to carry was in the theater maybe he could have saved some lives. Assuming everyone is an idiot is a bigger idiocy.

I totally agree.

[MATRIX 2]

still don't get your point...

... am I mistaken or don't you already have to have some "basic" (although I'm not sure it qualifies as even that) training in order to have a carry/conceal license...

and if so... then your post doesn't make any sense.

Privileges can be legislated away. A right cannot. The right to be arms to protect yourself is a natural/god given right that is reaffirmed in the constitution.

And yes you do need to pass a practical test to carry a gun, but it can only go so far and should be supplemented with additional training.

[DayWalker]

Privileges can be legislated away. A right cannot. The right to be arms to protect yourself is a natural/god given right that is reaffirmed in the constitution.

And yes you do need to pass a practical test to carry a gun, but it can only go so far and should be supplemented with additional training.

yeah I get that part... I don't see where you were going with police training...

how does one obtain a pass to carry/conceal? don't you need training? So we have already conceded that one must be trained in order to carry/conceal...

My only point, and actually you have already admitted the same thing... is that the basic training could/should be better. And because its not... you're arming people who common sense says probably shouldn't be allowed to operate a blender.

Hence my amusement at the assertion that its "safer" to be in a movie theater surrounded by armed baffoons...

[MATRIX 2]

yeah I get that part... I don't see where you were going with police training...

how does one obtain a pass to carry/conceal? don't you need training? So we have already conceded that one must be trained in order to carry/conceal...

My only point, and actually you have already admitted the same thing... is that the basic training could/should be better. And because its not... you're arming people who common sense says probably shouldn't be allowed to operate a blender.

Hence my amusement at the assertion that its "safer" to be in a movie theater surrounded by armed baffoons...

Like I said, I don't think you understand how a right works. You can't pick and choose who gets to exercise their rights.

And the armed buffoons will clearly know that if they try anything stupid, they are likely to be quickly shot, possibly fatally. That is a significant deterrent.

[DayWalker]

Like I said, I don't think you understand how a right works. You can't pick and choose who gets to exercise their rights.

we can and do- hence the requirement to have a pass...

a glaring fact that you seem unwilling to address.

[Morganator]

I guess it was only a matter of time before someone injected a bit of politics into this thread. In that case, I'd like to direct everyone to this...

Amendment II:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

More importantly...

shall not be infringed

[MATRIX 2]

we can and do- hence the requirement to have a pass...

a glaring fact that you seem unwilling to address.

Show me the permit you need to keep/own a gun in your house.

And going with what Morgantor posted, pretty much all gun legislation is essentially unconstitutional.

[DayWalker]

Show me the permit you need to keep/own a gun in your house.

And going with what Morgantor posted, pretty much all gun legislation is essentially unconstitutional.

yeah we aren't talking about that... we are talking about conceal and carry in a movie theater.

I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

And even the NRA believes in SOME regulations

[AaronSOLDIER]

Some posts in this thread... smh

No wonder the world is in such a shit state.

[DeviousOne]

Some posts in this thread... smh

No wonder the world is in such a shit state.

Yes because of post in THIS thread the world is in such a shitty state! This thread shows everything wrong in the world!?

Thats seriously an whole another topic that guns is such a small part of but i will say the same people who say the whole world is shit are the same people not doing shit about it.

Gun laws there is NO easy solution no easy answer shit if politicians and world leaders cant agree and create something that works for EVERYONE that sure as hell isnt going to be done here.

Im sure rational people can Agree to Disagree cause this is going in circles and becoming just pointless bickering cause no one that has a stance is going to change their mind.

Back on topic yes people are buying more guns because they dont feel safe, We all know why, seems we cant agree who should have guns or the means of how people obtain firearms or what the law should be, why guns are ruining everything ect ect...

Please continue back to the pointless arguing

[Shibby]

If you're going to pull a gun you better be prepared to pull it out and use it. If you're going to use it you better be prepared to kill. It you can't do that then don't buy a gun.

I don't want to have to worry about someone trying to hunt me down two years later when they get released from prison.

And another thing, if you're protecting yourself, and you shoot and DON'T kill, you may end up paying a hospital bill while you're at it.

[MATRIX 2]

yeah we aren't talking about that... we are talking about conceal and carry in a movie theater.

I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

And even the NRA believes in SOME regulations

You are aware that certain states have "constitutional" carry which allows you to carry a gun (concealed or openly) without any permit or additional paperwork. And In other states you can open carry in this fashion, and only need a permit of concealed carry. Mor and more states will adopt constitutional carry of system in time.

And those "regulations" the NRA believes in are simple things like background checks through the NICS.

And not much more than that really.

[-Kwesnoth-]

Think of it this way.

If you were in the theater when it happened, would you rather sit there without hope and get shot to pieces? Or would you rather know that the guy next to you is carrying a gun, and that he can act to put the guy down?

Its hard for anyone in here to comment how much they would hate to have a theater full of guns, but that just means that there are people who have the ability to do something instead of puss out like those not willing to cope with the fact that guns save lives just as much as they take them.