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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    You cannot be serious.
    Literally as serious as a heart attack. I couldn't be ANY MORE serious.

    [First of all, Valve isn't the one 'patching' the games on STEAM- the developers are. Through STEAM, but not by Valve's hand.
    Last I heard, TF2 was made by Valve, which is what the poster mentioned. Please, by all means correct me if I am wrong.

    Secondly, every piece of software out there period has bugs. Tons of bugs. Games are no exception- in fact they may even be worse in this regard. Patching is just inevitable as software (and games) become ever more complex.
    Not my problem. Just because it exists doesn't mean us consumers should have to accept it.

    This is just an unreasonable position you're adopting. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face...
    I disagree. I have every right and reason to demand something that works out of the box as a consumer. EVERY reason.

    That is legitimately your logic. Problem is, no, they probably won't. It's a cost\risk calculation here. Fez illustrated this point succinctly. It's not worth paying 40k to patch an issue that 1 out of 100 people will experience- even though this is statistically fairly high for a 'game breaking bug' its still not worth the price.
    I never said anything about the FEZ patch specifically. STILL, do you know what is involved with the $40,000 patches? I know I don't know the costs involved.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    The devs of Fez could release the patch for people, and let them download it in a few ways....
    Too busy sinking that 10,000 into making the PC version...

    The fact that this wouldnt break them in terms of money seems to go over peoples head.

    Its just that they dont want to spend the money.

    It is dis-ingenous for them to be making out that this is somehow going to end them.
    Even microsoft has said there ar ework aorund (eg they keep all the royalties on current sales till its paid off).

    End of the story is Polytron would rather have the money to continue to roll in from the XBLA verison, for effectivley doing nothing.
    Last edited by mynd; 08-01-2012 at 22:39.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  3. #28
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    Developer: Microsoft, we want to develop a game for XBLA

    Microsoft: Ok. Well we get X% of all your sales, you are allowed one free patch, and all subsequent patches are $40k. Do you understand and accept these terms?

    Developer: Yes we do.

    Developer: Um, our game is broke, and we need to do a second patch now

    Microsoft: That will be $40k

    Developer: WHAT?!? Why is it $40k? $#@! you MS, I am going to just give you some bad publicity, cuz we are $#@!ing $#@! suckers.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Developer: Microsoft, we want to develop a game for XBLA

    Microsoft: Ok. Well we get X% of all your sales, you are allowed one free patch, and all subsequent patches are $40k. Do you understand and accept these terms?

    Developer: Yes we do.

    Developer: Um, our game is broke, and we need to do a second patch now

    Microsoft: That will be $40k

    Developer: WHAT?!? Why is it $40k? $#@! you MS, I am going to just give you some bad publicity, cuz we are $#@!ing $#@! suckers.
    Yikes.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Developer: Microsoft, we want to develop a game for XBLA

    Microsoft: Ok. Well we get X% of all your sales, you are allowed one free patch, and all subsequent patches are $40k. Do you understand and accept these terms?

    Developer: Yes we do.

    Developer: Um, our game is broke, and we need to do a second patch now

    Microsoft: That will be $40k

    Developer: WHAT?!? Why is it $40k? $#@! you MS, I am going to just give you some bad publicity, cuz we are $#@!ing $#@! suckers.
    Actually it more like this...

    Microsoft: Ok. Well we get X% of all your sales, you are allowed one free patch, and all subsequent patches are $40k. Do you understand and accept these terms?

    Developer: Yes we do.

    Developer: Oh its a bit broke, better fix it.

    Microsoft: Thats free.

    Developer: Wohoo we sold 100,000 copies, lets make more money by making a PC version, we can start with the original code and convert to run on PC!

    Journalist:You game is still broke.

    Developer: What? (busy typing code for PC verison $ in eyes).

    Journalist:You game is still broke. Why dont you fix it.

    Developer: Uh...because it woudl cost us $40,000, we dont need to patch it, weve already got 100,000 sales..wohooo....

    Journalist: So you wont patch it bacuse it costs so much?

    Developer: Yeah..uh sure...look we are releasing it on Steam, it costs us nothing to patch it on steam! Go buy it on steam!

    Gamer: Again?

    Developer: Sure..blame Microsoft...(rubs hands together greedily).
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  6. #31
    Soldier 95B
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    Yeah...I vented at the devs. There is nothing I hate more than companies complaining about something they agreed to from the start, and CHOOSE to continue. I don't feel bad for them in the least.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Literally as serious as a heart attack. I couldn't be ANY MORE serious.



    Last I heard, TF2 was made by Valve, which is what the poster mentioned. Please, by all means correct me if I am wrong.



    Not my problem. Just because it exists doesn't mean us consumers should have to accept it.



    I disagree. I have every right and reason to demand something that works out of the box as a consumer. EVERY reason.



    I never said anything about the FEZ patch specifically. STILL, do you know what is involved with the $40,000 patches? I know I don't know the costs involved.
    Your expectations are noble but unreasonable all the same. The fact that Valve constantly patches TF2 doesn't mean its a poorly coded mess.

    That's not at all what this implies. It means they're adding (and preparing) to add content, making gameplay tweaks, and yes fixing bugs. It means they care about their product enough to constantly be on top of it and spend the man hours and resources to fixing it up for their fans.

    And I perfectly realize 40k is not a back breaking amount- but it is a barrier. It's an incentive to not patch as often as the game may require.


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  9. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Where on earth did you get $40,000 from?
    Wasnt the figure $10,000?
    Polytron themselves. Loads of gaming media outlets have also said it's in the region of $40,000

    http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/07/2...r-indie-gaming
    Quote Originally Posted by neoxthexone View Post
    DC is the hero PSU deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll ban him, because he can take it. Because he's not a hero. He's a single guardian, a watchful protector. The DC.

  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Your expectations are noble but unreasonable all the same. The fact that Valve constantly patches TF2 doesn't mean its a poorly coded mess.

    That's not at all what this implies. It means they're adding (and preparing) to add content, making gameplay tweaks, and yes fixing bugs. It means they care about their product enough to constantly be on top of it and spend the man hours and resources to fixing it up for their fans.

    And I perfectly realize 40k is not a back breaking amount- but it is a barrier. It's an incentive to not patch as often as the game may require.
    I am on the same page as you somewhat. Note that I never said $40k is reasonable OR unreasonable. I have asked 3 times if anyone knows what the $40k covers on PSN/XBL. Unsurprisingly, nobody has replied because they don't know.

    I would be remiss if I assumed one way or the other. My point is, I am glad there is a deterrent. To conclude my argument, I can't say one way or the other if $40k is too much or too little unless I knew the costs involved. I do NOT think it's fair that a consumer is prevented from getting a patch. But I think it is even more unfair for a company to sell a consumer a non-working product. I think it's even more unfair that the developer CAN fix the game, and THEY are choosing NOT to. Not because of Microsoft's policy, but because they made the conscience decision to accept the terms for patching and refuse to oblige.

  11. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    lol we are doomed!!!!!!!!! Games prices are going to shoot to $79.99 to cover patch costs.

  12. #36
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    The most I will pay for console games is $100. If they go beyond that, I am done gaming.

  13. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    The most I will pay for console games is $100.
    60 dollars is already too high for some of these games (i.e. Call of Duty). I can't imagine people paying nearly double the amount.

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  15. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    The most I will pay for console games is $100. If they go beyond that, I am done gaming.
    I'll pay the $60 or less... the more money is usually on limited editions at most.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksite View Post
    60 dollars is already too high for some of these games (i.e. Call of Duty). I can't imagine people paying nearly double the amount.
    Agreed.




  16. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksite View Post
    60 dollars is already too high for some of these games (i.e. Call of Duty). I can't imagine people paying nearly double the amount.
    I am just speaking for me


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

  17. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    I am just speaking for me


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    I know. I just find it hard to believe that you would be willing to pay more. Especially with some of the post-release bugs out there.
    Last edited by Metal King Slime; 08-02-2012 at 01:57.

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  19. #41
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    I'd totally pay $100 for huge open world games that have over 100 hours of entertainment ($1 per hour), but most games, $60 is too high even.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDug13
    I want Naughty Dog to explore new game genres, not regurgitate cinematic corridor shooters for another generation.

  20. #42
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    I will not pay a penny over 60$ for a regular version of a game.. Not unless the game is like, super massive amazing 9000. As in they spent some 3-4 years making this massive game that ships on 4 discs and it redefines the term "open world".

    For that, I'd consider it. Cost must equal quality.

    And that's kind of fair too I guess, measuring if it was worth it by the hours you play. I'm coming up close to 1000hrs on DOW2, so that was 30$ well spent! And I've logged about 300hrs in Skyrim.

    Course I only paid 50$ for it since it was on STEAM\PC =D


  21. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    I am on the same page as you somewhat. Note that I never said $40k is reasonable OR unreasonable. I have asked 3 times if anyone knows what the $40k covers on PSN/XBL. Unsurprisingly, nobody has replied because they don't know.
    If i'm not mistaken, the 40k is used as a make sure your game is right coming out the gate type deal.

    Also many have been blaming MS (which is what the developers wanted) saying how come MS didn't catch the bugs. MS doesn't check the developers game code for how the game runs; that is all on the developer themselves. All MS does is take the game and put it through the certification process. Which means they are seeing if that particular game or update doesn't $#@! up the xbox. Whether that be the OS or how the achievements work. That's $#@! MS doesn't want to be doing. 40k to MS is a roll of toilet paper. They don't care about the developer paying especially when said developer came to them. Even more so when said developer agreed to the terms.

    Now as far as I know that 40k applies to every game developer except for the indie developers of course. So from big dogs at EA to the little guys like these Fez creators. It could be argued that MS should change the price based on the income of the game developers so the little guys could pay something like 10k instead of 40k. But that is something entirely different and has no baring on this topic.

    Main thing is:

    -They agreed to MS terms
    -No hidden gotcha $#@!
    -MS doesn't care about your complaining
    -Give people who were affected a refund if they want it since it only affects 1% and they will be no where near 40k.
    Last edited by TrUe GaMeR; 08-02-2012 at 09:05.

  22. #44
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    The refund idea is a good one. Those affected should be entitled to a full refund of the game.

  23. #45
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    You guys saying don't release a game without bugs is like saying to an addict don't buy cigarettes, its going to happen, no matter how much testing you do there will be bugs that occur one way or another.

    Is there one game that does not have bugs?

  24. #46
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    Indeed it is but the 40K should also make them think. "$#@!, you know what? Maybe we should really try and ensure before we release this game we found as much as we could and then we have one free update to get everything smooth"

    As others have said, they would've agreed to this before the game even started development/was allowed onto XBLA so why they are complaining acting surprised now is their own fault.

  25. #47
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    I have been ont he testing team of a number of free mods and we find shedloads of bugs yet when we thought we had it fine and dandy and could not find any more bugs despite trying to break stuff we released it then a few days after release the players started to find bugs.

    These are all the bugs that were found and fixed, up to January 2010 was internal testing only after that it went public.

    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/30326465/Ad...BGamer%2B2.csv
    Last edited by keefy; 08-02-2012 at 13:32.

  26. #48
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    Better testing needs to be done then, and they need to put it in an environment where they have more testers in the wild to find it. Consumers should not receive faulty products.

  27. #49
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    How'd you like your new Car, S95B? Sorry i sold it to you with faulty breaks but y'know, that $#@! is hard to find and costy to rectify. You understand right?

    Obviously it's not as simple as that but as a consumer thats all i care about. They managed for many generations until now. Have they only just forgot how to test games?

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  29. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    How'd you like your new Car, S95B? Sorry i sold it to you with faulty breaks but y'know, that $#@! is hard to find and costy to rectify. You understand right?

    Obviously it's not as simple as that but as a consumer thats all i care about. They managed for many generations until now. Have they only just forgot how to test games?
    It's ok if my brakes don't work. I understand that they can't test the brakes in every environment. If the brakes don't work, they don't work. Cars are more complicated these days, so I just need to accept that

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