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    Fez: No patch for game breaking bug because of Microsoft charges

    So recently theres been a bit of a hoo-hah over Fez, a popular Xbox Live Arcade game. Creator Phil Fish has said his company (Polytron) will not be patching a game breaking bug in Fez due to the charges applied by Microsoft for patching games. The fee is in the region of $40,000. Polytron believe there is a 1% chance of you encountering this bug.

    Since there has been a war of words between Polytron and Microsoft. Polytron have said they will not patch the game because of charges. Microsoft said they are happy to 'work' with Polytron on the charges.

    Fez was an Xbox exclusive, but now it's coming to Steam. And it's not the only game on Xbox Live Arcade which is broken and has never been fixed, and the bottom line is it's the gamer at home who get's screwed because they've bought something which is now broken and no fix is coming.
    Do you think $40,000 is just too much money for a indie developer to stump up to patch a game? Do you think this will make Xbox Live less attractive to developers now?
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    40,00 is by far too much money just to patch a game, even 10,000 would be too much

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  3. #3
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    Developers creating the games are well aware of patching costs on PSN and XBL before they release the games. I feel no remorse for the Fez developer.

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    The whole thing is bull$#@!, there should be no charge for fixing your game !!
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    Patching, like maps should be free. Charging for either or both only hurts the gamers.

    How much does Sony charge, do we know?
    Charging 40k per patch is stupid the devs should be free to release quick bugfixes as and when they please much like Steam.
    Last edited by keefy; 08-01-2012 at 16:49.

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    Stop releasing games with bugs and you won't to worry about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Stop releasing games with bugs and you won't to worry about it.
    This

    Want to avoid paying these costs? Don't release a broken game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Developers creating the games are well aware of patching costs on PSN and XBL before they release the games. I feel no remorse for the Fez developer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Stop releasing games with bugs and you won't to worry about it.
    Couldn't agree more. Back in the days of the SNES you had to test your game 100% otherwise you were screwed, nowdays developers are cutting corners and not bothering to test their games and are happy to just let the public test their games for them rather than doing their job properly and testing it themselves.

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    Want the games to be patched. Do not charge for it. I think that is far fairer to be honest.

    Some bugs only show in certain combination of events and settings and finding those settings with a limited team may take forever yet on day 1 of release there is 1 million people playing for a least 1 million hours so bugs are bound to surface.
    Last edited by keefy; 08-01-2012 at 17:17.

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    This is why Sony and MS are going to start losing alot of ground to STEAM as a platform for gaming.


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    Charging $40,000 to patch a game is ridiculous. Who would want to patch a game when it costs that much to do so? I see the future being nothing but broken games for the Xbox lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    This is why Sony and MS are going to start losing alot of ground to STEAM as a platform for gaming.
    Really? I don't see them losing ground to STEAM at all. I see the current console losing ground due to old hardware.

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    I said "going to start" meaning in the future unless they change their model they will still ceding ground.

    As STEAM becomes more and more sophisticated, easier to work with, and pleasurable to the consumer.. Greater amounts of negative comparisons will start to be drawn against PSN and XBL and the developer process for making games on the consoles.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I said "going to start" meaning in the future unless they change their model they will still ceding ground.

    As STEAM becomes more and more sophisticated, easier to work with, and pleasurable to the consumer.. Greater amounts of negative comparisons will start to be drawn against PSN and XBL and the developer process for making games on the consoles.
    I meant I do not see that happening at all in the future or now. I just feel the PC had it's time and it will not be coming back any time soon. Soon as new consoles release, STEAM will take another back seat. Just my opinion of course.

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    I don't agree at all. If anything PC and consoles will bow out to mobiles (Smartphones).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I don't agree at all. If anything PC and consoles will bow out to mobiles (Smartphones).
    I don't think so, PC will always exist through laptops, home consoles will phase out and just become handhelds that you can hook up to your TV, and smartphones will all coexist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Stop releasing games with bugs and you won't to worry about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    This

    Want to avoid paying these costs? Don't release a broken game.
    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    Couldn't agree more. Back in the days of the SNES you had to test your game 100% otherwise you were screwed, nowdays developers are cutting corners and not bothering to test their games and are happy to just let the public test their games for them rather than doing their job properly and testing it themselves.
    Do you know how utterly impossible that is these days!? Games are the biggest they have ever been and no matter how much testing you put your games through it is inevitable that some of the smaller bugs are going to slip through the cracks. Case in point:

    Polytron believe there is a 1% chance of you encountering this bug.
    You could probably spend a good year testing your game and still find some bugs. Making games is getting more and more expensive, at some point you have to ship your game and hope for the best. MS and Sony charging for fixing your game is only making things more and more expensive.

    As someone going into the industry, I am well and truly on the developer's side here.
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  20. #17
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    Releasing a game without a bug is nigh impossible these days, so many factors can create bugs. Many factors are out of the hands of the dev's too.

    I got Oblivion collectors edition on 360 and bundled was a making of disk. It showed you how they search for bugs, manually by playing the game and trying EVERYTHING. The amount they found & fixed was staggering. The game shipping buggy as hell too.

    In my eyes, bug patching should be free. It's not like it's adding content to the game, it's fixing a bug. The patch would be mere KB's in size no doubt, maybe 10MB tops but more than likely less.

    Fez isn't the first game on XBLA to not be patched due to a bug and it won't be the last. Microsoft need to strike a better deal with the developers in my eyes, especially now Apple and the mobile market are really gaining traction. Microsoft limit the file size of downloadable games too.
    Quote Originally Posted by neoxthexone View Post
    DC is the hero PSU deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll ban him, because he can take it. Because he's not a hero. He's a single guardian, a watchful protector. The DC.

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  22. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    How much does Sony charge, do we know? Charging 40k per patch is stupid the devs should be free to release quick bugfixes as and when they please much like Steam.
    Sony charges $40,000 as well.
    http://www.technobuffalo.com/gaming/...home-consoles/

    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Want the games to be patched. Do not charge for it. I think that is far fairer to be honest.
    I think we want bug free games. Clearly $40k will encourage you to test your game.

    Some bugs only show in certain combination of events and settings and finding those settings with a limited team may take forever yet on day 1 of release there is 1 million people playing for a least 1 million hours so bugs are bound to surface.
    That is not my problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    This is why Sony and MS are going to start losing alot of ground to STEAM as a platform for gaming.
    Yet they continue to gain ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal_NFS View Post
    Charging $40,000 to patch a game is ridiculous. Who would want to patch a game when it costs that much to do so? I see the future being nothing but broken games for the Xbox lol.
    Broken PS3 and Xbox games that is, ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave-The-Rave View Post
    Do you know how utterly impossible that is these days!? Games are the biggest they have ever been and no matter how much testing you put your games through it is inevitable that some of the smaller bugs are going to slip through the cracks. Case in point:



    You could probably spend a good year testing your game and still find some bugs. Making games is getting more and more expensive, at some point you have to ship your game and hope for the best. MS and Sony charging for fixing your game is only making things more and more expensive.

    As someone going into the industry, I am well and truly on the developer's side here.
    If you are going into the industry, maybe you should contact MS and Sony and ask them about the costs associated with releasing patches on their systems. I am pretty sure NOBODY here knows those details. Maybe post back when you do know.

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    PC is and always has been playing catch up to consoles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Sony charges $40,000 as well.
    http://www.technobuffalo.com/gaming/...home-consoles/



    I think we want bug free games. Clearly $40k will encourage you to test your game.
    Yes we want bug free games but charging for patching Clearly isnt the answer if it was this thread wouldnt exist.

    Valve are constantly patching their games, they release bug fixes on a regular basis to TF2 on PC but not on Xbox.
    Last edited by keefy; 08-01-2012 at 20:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Valve are constantly patching their games, they release bug fixes on a regular basis to TF2 on PC but not on Xbox, I wonder why
    Clearly Valve doesn't know how to make a game if they are constantly patching it. Something is MORE wrong with that picture.

    That doesn't change the fact that none of us know the costs involved with patching on PSN and XBL. I am glad patching is deterred so that proper game testing happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    That is not my problem.
    As a consumer, it kinda is.
    Quote Originally Posted by neoxthexone View Post
    DC is the hero PSU deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll ban him, because he can take it. Because he's not a hero. He's a single guardian, a watchful protector. The DC.

  27. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal_NFS View Post
    Charging $40,000 to patch a game is ridiculous. Who would want to patch a game when it costs that much to do so? I see the future being nothing but broken games for the Xbox lol.
    And for the PS3 as well. lol http://www.technobuffalo.com/gaming/...home-consoles/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Clearly Valve doesn't know how to make a game if they are constantly patching it. Something is MORE wrong with that picture.

    That doesn't change the fact that none of us know the costs involved with patching on PSN and XBL. I am glad patching is deterred so that proper game testing happens.

    You cannot be serious. First of all, Valve isn't the one 'patching' the games on STEAM- the developers are. Through STEAM, but not by Valve's hand.

    Secondly, every piece of software out there period has bugs. Tons of bugs. Games are no exception- in fact they may even be worse in this regard. Patching is just inevitable as software (and games) become ever more complex.

    This is just an unreasonable position you're adopting. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face...

    "WELL, you should make better games that require less patching. So there's nothing wrong with prohibitively high patching costs on consoles! Developers will just get better"

    That is legitimately your logic. Problem is, no, they probably won't. It's a cost\risk calculation here. Fez illustrated this point succinctly. It's not worth paying 40k to patch an issue that 1 out of 100 people will experience- even though this is statistically fairly high for a 'game breaking bug' its still not worth the price.


    @Mobile gaming stuff

    The future is mobile. I don't think, nor want, "power applications" on desktops to ever go away. Desktops are important and I think we'd be far worse off without them.

    But what I'm saying is proportionately gaming is experiencing a larger transition to this mobile, app fueled, gaming scene. I don't like this trend.. Nor the casual games that come with it.. But it's just what i'm observing.

    Console gaming is now to the point where it is needlessly expensive. You must buy the dedicated gaming unit itself, pay a monthly access fee (for XBL) on top of your internet fee, accessories, and a more expensive (normally inferior quality) disc based game than on the PC.. Because of manufacturer royalties that need to be paid.

    Oh, and to boot patching is extremely rare because it takes forever to do and is very expensive.

    That's just not competitive.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 08-01-2012 at 21:37.


  29. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dc89 View Post
    So recently theres been a bit of a hoo-hah over Fez, a popular Xbox Live Arcade game. Creator Phil Fish has said his company (Polytron) will not be patching a game breaking bug in Fez due to the charges applied by Microsoft for patching games. The fee is in the region of $40,000. Polytron believe there is a 1% chance of you encountering this bug.

    Since there has been a war of words between Polytron and Microsoft. Polytron have said they will not patch the game because of charges. Microsoft said they are happy to 'work' with Polytron on the charges.

    Fez was an Xbox exclusive, but now it's coming to Steam. And it's not the only game on Xbox Live Arcade which is broken and has never been fixed, and the bottom line is it's the gamer at home who get's screwed because they've bought something which is now broken and no fix is coming.
    Do you think $40,000 is just too much money for a indie developer to stump up to patch a game? Do you think this will make Xbox Live less attractive to developers now?
    Where on earth did you get $40,000 from?
    Wasnt the figure $10,000?

    The game was broken.

    No it is not a huge amount, it may seem like quite a bit, but consider this:

    1/ The game is only coming to Steam, because the developer earned enough money of the Xbox verison to convert it to PC.

    2/The game sold over 100,000 copies

    3/ It was released broken, the cost is to recertify it.

    4/ They got 1 free patch.


    In short they $#@!ed up, they released the product, they are liable.

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    The devs of Fez could release the patch for people, and let them download it in a few ways....




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