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  1. #26
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    In the articles I read they did not include OSX under the banner of "open platforms". Windows and Linux were the two in that ring, now Valve and Blizzard are feeling it's only really Linux with the direction MS is taking.

    "30% is only for the normal software" ~ Lol and they won't have a figure such as this that would apply to their game store? They want to monetize this just like the Google Play and App stores on the mobiles. As Newell said it's "Very tempting for them to do this".


    "XBL is a closed system. It makes no sense for MS to allow valve to put steam on the xbox."

    This isn't really a statement with much substance. I didn't say that the "all of STEAM" was ported to PSN- Just STEAM works. There was a partnership program there where you can link your STEAM and PSN accounts- but it wasn't like they made a fully fledged "STEAM" app that you downloaded from the PSN store or something that otherwised competed or replaced PSN on the PS3.

    Furthermore, simply asserting that "XBL is a closed system, ergo it makes no sense for it to incorporate STEAM in any way" is kind of circular reasoning. It's only closed because they want it to be that way, and the only reason STEAM works isn't allowed is because it is closed. There is no inherent barrier preventing STEAM works from being integrated with XBL apart from MS's desire for control and fear of losing face or ground to Valve on their home turf.

    So:

    1. Microsoft definitely has a system in place that is scaring away Valve and Blizzard. They are indeed charging 30% for what you call "normal software"- but I'd like to see the exact verbiage which dictates games are excluded from this figure. I didn't get that impression when reading the article. A quick scouring of wikipedia revealed this:

    "The Windows Store will take a 30% cut of application sales. Once an application reaches $25,000 USD in revenue, the cut drops to 20%. Third-party transactions are also allowed, of which Microsoft does not take a cut. Individual developers will be able to register for $49 USD, and $99 USD for companies."



    2. What OSX does is kind of irrelavent in this discussion. For one, I've never been a proponent of Apple. For another, they've never ever been accused of being an "open platform" with their hardware or software lol. Always been tightly on the reins. The different is they're competent about it whereas MS blunders about normally.


    3. Nothing is preventing MS from embracing STEAM works, except their draconian old-school attitude:
    "The main thing is having Microsoft get comfortable with it and let us do it. Right now, there's a huge amount of updates and free content we've been able to deliver to people who have The Orange Box that we haven't been able to deliver to the Xbox because of the restrictions that have been placed on us on Xbox Live," he continued. "We'd love to see those relaxed."One of the things Newell hopes will convince Microsoft to unclench a bit is the success Sony is experiencing with its "more open approach."
    "Hopefully that will help Microsoft see that's a good strategy for making customers happy, that the barbarians won't tear down the walls of Xbox and turn it into some chaotic wasteland," he said. ~ Gabe Newell
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 08-09-2012 at 03:15.


  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    It looks like Microsoft wants to end this and transition their OS into something more akin to the mobile and console space concerning content. They want to act as a gatekeeper.
    I was honestly looking to have Microsoft move to a format similar to Chrome OS. Where we all could have a monitor and keyboard in front of us, and no REAL CPU. Just a monitor with a barebones OS that is sufficient to get you connected to the internet, and all apps are accessed online, all with background updates. No need to upgrade PC's like we do now, as the work is all being done server side. A system where you could pay a subscription fee to access a full variety of apps, such as office, photoshop, etc. Or even an app by app basis. I had a Chrome OS beta notebook, and it was something I could see myself using full time, be it work or home.

    Basically we could be witnessing a Linux and OpenGL revolution right before our eyes. In the past 8 or so years Direct X and Windows have stolen the scene... But thanks to this "catastrophe" (Valve and Blizzard's exact phrasing) they're jumping off what they perceive to be a sinking gaming ship to safer harbors. In particular, Ubuntu. (which I love ! =D)
    Ubuntu is a VERY impressive OS, and I love the frequent build updates they put out. The LibreOffice support, their music player, their UI, their Firefox. It's exactly what I think Windows should be if we are going to continue down the road with full fledged PC's with towers/all-in-one desktops. I love my Macs (just bought a new 27 inch iMac last month to add to my collection), because of the hardware. But as an OS, I have to say that based on my experience, Ubuntu is the way to go. Well, some form of Linux...which I think Chrome OS is also based on.

    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    As for the next xbox OS if it isn't completely custom designed from the ground up, it may be based on the W8 kernel (like windows phone . Which is basically what they have done in the past. Honestly you guys get way too worked up about this. Microsoft is about to create the perfect trifecta of hardware and software, I doubt they would try to screw it up with so much riding on it.
    With Xbox 1 and Xbox 360, you never realize you are running some form of customized OS. We don't get popup bubbles reminding us to install service packs, updates, drivers. We don't need to ctrl alt del and end tasks. I want the Xbox 3 to have an OS that is like Xbox 1 and Xbox 360. You don't even know it's really there, and you are NEVER bothered by anything like I mentioned. It should be seamless.

    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    We all know how amazing Games for windows live is.
    GFWL = FAILSAUCE. It is the right idea, but implemented horribly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    In the articles I read they did not include OSX under the banner of "open platforms". Windows and Linux were the two in that ring, now Valve and Blizzard are feeling it's only really Linux with the direction MS is taking.
    I have to say, even though the uptake is still slow, OSX is continuing to get more and more game support, which I am excited about. I will consider more gaming on my Mac if we continue to get more mainstream games AND if I can connect my 360 controller to it wirelessly.

    This isn't really a statement with much substance. I didn't say that the "all of STEAM" was ported to PSN- Just STEAM works. There was a partnership program there where you can link your STEAM and PSN accounts- but it wasn't like they made a fully fledged "STEAM" app that you downloaded from the PSN store or something that otherwised competed or replaced PSN on the PS3.
    I like the idea of giving consumers more options. But I also like the solid closed system that XBL has right now as well. The steam support on our PS3 is all fine and dandy in Portal 2. But honestly, other than making some internet media waves, and forum discussions, what has the Steam support done for the majority of users. The all in one ID is a nice touch, but it was my understanding that the ultimate goal was background updates and DLC that could be pushed through, bypassing PSN. I suspect that Sony was concerned about quality control and wanting to test the updates before they hit the PS3's. Has there been any Steam DLC/Patches on the PS3, that have not made it to the 360 because of this collaboration? The advantage I found was that you can buy the PS3 version and have the PC version free (but not the other way around). That is indeed a bonus I would like to see on more games, on all consoles.

    2. What OSX does is kind of irrelavent in this discussion. For one, I've never been a proponent of Apple. For another, they've never ever been accused of being an "open platform" with their hardware or software lol. Always been tightly on the reins. The different is they're competent about it whereas MS blunders about normally.
    I like that Apple has their hardware/software bonded the way they do. The funny thing is, they are pretty darn CLOSED, yet the backbone of OSX is Unix (which is completely open).

    3. Nothing is preventing MS from embracing STEAM works, except their draconian old-school attitude:
    Indeed. I am curious how old that quote is. MS has made some changes over time and has shown flexibility. Gamers have been getting free content on BF3 as well as MW3. Minecraft: Xbox 360 Edition is another example of a product that is getting multiple updates/patches/features/content pushed to gamers free of charge. Granted, Minecraft is published by Microsoft, but it seems that more games are receiving more and more updates and patches. Yet, you turn around and hear about the FEZ debacle on fixing the game save issue, then it's like...what is going on?

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    I hope their next gaming system isn't relying on Windows 8, or some of this other PC $#@! they are trying to tout.




  4. #29
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    Correct Soldier, Chromium is a linux derivative. What alot of people are looking forward to though is a proper desktop version of Android. I'm kind of 'so so' on that, because of how much I love Ubuntu as a platform..

    But yea, linux is awesome. Open source for the win!

    And yea, to my understanding there have been a good degree of background stuff going on with Portal 2 on PS3 thanks to Steamworks =D


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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    I was honestly looking to have Microsoft move to a format similar to Chrome OS. Where we all could have a monitor and keyboard in front of us, and no REAL CPU. Just a monitor with a barebones OS that is sufficient to get you connected to the internet, and all apps are accessed online, all with background updates. No need to upgrade PC's like we do now, as the work is all being done server side. A system where you could pay a subscription fee to access a full variety of apps, such as office, photoshop, etc. Or even an app by app basis. I had a Chrome OS beta notebook, and it was something I could see myself using full time, be it work or home.



    Ubuntu is a VERY impressive OS, and I love the frequent build updates they put out. The LibreOffice support, their music player, their UI, their Firefox. It's exactly what I think Windows should be if we are going to continue down the road with full fledged PC's with towers/all-in-one desktops. I love my Macs (just bought a new 27 inch iMac last month to add to my collection), because of the hardware. But as an OS, I have to say that based on my experience, Ubuntu is the way to go. Well, some form of Linux...which I think Chrome OS is also based on.



    With Xbox 1 and Xbox 360, you never realize you are running some form of customized OS. We don't get popup bubbles reminding us to install service packs, updates, drivers. We don't need to ctrl alt del and end tasks. I want the Xbox 3 to have an OS that is like Xbox 1 and Xbox 360. You don't even know it's really there, and you are NEVER bothered by anything like I mentioned. It should be seamless.



    GFWL = FAILSAUCE. It is the right idea, but implemented horribly.



    I have to say, even though the uptake is still slow, OSX is continuing to get more and more game support, which I am excited about. I will consider more gaming on my Mac if we continue to get more mainstream games AND if I can connect my 360 controller to it wirelessly.



    I like the idea of giving consumers more options. But I also like the solid closed system that XBL has right now as well. The steam support on our PS3 is all fine and dandy in Portal 2. But honestly, other than making some internet media waves, and forum discussions, what has the Steam support done for the majority of users. The all in one ID is a nice touch, but it was my understanding that the ultimate goal was background updates and DLC that could be pushed through, bypassing PSN. I suspect that Sony was concerned about quality control and wanting to test the updates before they hit the PS3's. Has there been any Steam DLC/Patches on the PS3, that have not made it to the 360 because of this collaboration? The advantage I found was that you can buy the PS3 version and have the PC version free (but not the other way around). That is indeed a bonus I would like to see on more games, on all consoles.

    [COLOR=#000000][FONT=sans-serif]

    I like that Apple has their hardware/software bonded the way they do. The funny thing is, they are pretty darn CLOSED, yet the backbone of OSX is Unix (which is completely open).



    Indeed. I am curious how old that quote is. MS has made some changes over time and has shown flexibility. Gamers have been getting free content on BF3 as well as MW3. Minecraft: Xbox 360 Edition is another example of a product that is getting multiple updates/patches/features/content pushed to gamers free of charge. Granted, Minecraft is published by Microsoft, but it seems that more games are receiving more and more updates and patches. Yet, you turn around and hear about the FEZ debacle on fixing the game save issue, then it's like...what is going on?
    Have you heard of a Virtual machine? Because that would seem to cover your 1st bit.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I shouldn't have teased you, I didn't mean for the post to come across as an insult. It was more of a 'poke' in intent.

    @Rad

    From what I'm reading, the gaming industry is nervous because they're afraid that MS is going to tighten its grip with Windows 8 on games (and other possible applications) made for the platform. For instance, enforcing a rule where a game must be 'registered' through the windows game\app store and certain protocols must be followed + Microsoft takes a 30% cut of the profits.

    I'm not kidding, that is apparently their going rate for their Windows 8 store. They take a third.

    If they embrace a more "Xbox Live" like approach with Windows 8, you can begin to see why Valve and Blizzard are freaking out. They want to monetize their OS in a way that, before the mobile revolution, just really wasn't feasible. PC's as a platform have been very open and this is why STEAM thrived in the first place..

    It looks like Microsoft wants to end this and transition their OS into something more akin to the mobile and console space concerning content. They want to act as a gatekeeper.

    Valve (Gabe Newell) has gone on the record as having said they're "hedging their bets" with Linux thanks to what they know of Windows 8. So they're going to focus on ensuring that STEAM and all of its games are up to speed on non-windows OS's...

    Basically we could be witnessing a Linux and OpenGL revolution right before our eyes. In the past 8 or so years Direct X and Windows have stolen the scene... But thanks to this "catastrophe" (Valve and Blizzard's exact phrasing) they're jumping off what they perceive to be a sinking gaming ship to safer harbors. In particular, Ubuntu. (which I love ! =D)
    http://gizmodo.com/5937590/youre-bei...bad-for-gaming

  7. #32
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    Eh... I'm still highly dubious. I read some super scathing reviews of Windows 8 and the Metro UI from redditors.

    In particular this alleged 'desktop' (which is actually an APP lol!). There's alot of things to hate with Windows 8.

    There's alot of native apps that suck and compatibility issues going on too.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 08-25-2012 at 01:19.


  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    He changed his tune on the PS3 (not PSN) because of how open and flexible PSN was to developers. Sony allowed him to get STEAM works over onto it with very little fuss.

    Microsoft refused and, to my knowledge, still refuses to play ball with Valve.
    and as we all know, Steamworks on PS3 has been such a massive success.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Eh... I'm still highly dubious. I read some super scathing reviews of Windows 8 and the Metro UI from redditors.

    In particular this alleged 'desktop' (which is actually an APP lol!). There's alot of things to hate with Windows 8.

    There's alot of native apps that suck and compatibility issues going on too.
    Details my man, general statements will get you nowhere.

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    ---Yes the next xbox is most likely going to run on top of Windows 8. As you should hope it will because that means all it will take is a flip of a switch for Windows 8 apps to run on the next xbox. That's something I would like.

    ---Valve and Blizzard have something in common. They distrubute games. If people use their head there should be no more explaining it but apparently that's not the case. Since Valve with their steam client is going to start selling apps and more casual games of course they would have a problem with what MS is doing. Not with the OS but with the store. They made it about the OS just to stir up $#@!. MS is now a direct competitor to them. Oh well thems the breaks. $#@!ing is not going to do $#@! they best adapt.

    What they need to do is stop all that $#@! ass crying and make a steam metro app in the store along with a desktop link in the store for their desktop steam client.
    Metro Steam--- http://www.winsupersite.com/blog/sup...m-metro-140629
    For some reason I think they'll be highly rated in the store.

    But since they've exposed themselves to be $#@!es I guess that's not going to happen. So they need to shut the hell up with their agenda having asses and stick to Win7 and move to linux. Good luck to em.

    ---Windows 8 is great. It will dominate. It's inevitable.

    ---MS takes 30% cut from sales only from metro apps. You can have website links in the store for your desktop app but they take no cut from that.

    After a developer makes over $25k MS cuts their cut to a 20% cut.

    What have we learned from this short knowledge injection. The only people $#@!ing about W8 in the industry are the companies who have something to lose. For everyone else from OEMS to customers and developers, the potential gains are very great.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Details my man, general statements will get you nowhere.
    Some people just have a cemented view of things, like with a particular SIG product

    I'm open to Windows 8 and initially I was excited until I read scathing personal reviews from redditors and then the wave of criticism from the likes of Valve and Blizzard.

    I like Windows 7, but not enough to make me forget that Windows Vista was its predecessor lol. The accusation that Valve\Blizz are uncomfortable due to the competition that Windows 8 is bringing is completely rational.

    What I don't find rational is why Valve would say they're going to "hedge their bets" on Linux. That statement doesn't make any sense unless they believe there will be an exodus from windows.

    I do quite honestly believe there's more to this then what we're getting out of either camp right now. But I won't pay to be a beta tester come this October lol.

    @Youngster

    It certainly hasn't been a failure. Or was portal 2 on the PS3 a complete flop that nobody bought? PS3 steamworks launched with that title.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 08-27-2012 at 03:12.


  12. #37
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    I was honestly looking to have Microsoft move to a format similar to Chrome OS. Where we all could have a monitor and keyboard in front of us, and no REAL CPU. Just a monitor with a barebones OS that is sufficient to get you connected to the internet, and all apps are accessed online, all with background updates. No need to upgrade PC's like we do now, as the work is all being done server side. A system where you could pay a subscription fee to access a full variety of apps, such as office, photoshop, etc. Or even an app by app basis. I had a Chrome OS beta notebook, and it was something I could see myself using full time, be it work or home.

    Why are you looking forward to that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Some people just have a cemented view of things, like with a particular SIG product

    I'm open to Windows 8 and initially I was excited until I read scathing personal reviews from redditors and then the wave of criticism from the likes of Valve and Blizzard.

    I like Windows 7, but not enough to make me forget that Windows Vista was its predecessor lol. The accusation that Valve\Blizz are uncomfortable due to the competition that Windows 8 is bringing is completely rational.

    What I don't find rational is why Valve would say they're going to "hedge their bets" on Linux. That statement doesn't make any sense unless they believe there will be an exodus from windows.

    I do quite honestly believe there's more to this then what we're getting out of either camp right now. But I won't pay to be a beta tester come this October lol.

    @Youngster

    It certainly hasn't been a failure. Or was portal 2 on the PS3 a complete flop that nobody bought? PS3 steamworks launched with that title.
    As someone who has a computer running vista that still runs fine to this day, I don't really see the issue.

    Considering you can pick up pro for ~$70 through the end of the year, there really isn't much to lose. And performance wise (under the hood so to speak) W8 is a clear improvement over windows 7.

    As for the sig, it seems you should have chosen this instead:

    http://tinyurl.com/8fswl2v

    I don't care for such deviations from the original design.

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    I don't know why MS can't see Windows 8 is going to be Vista all over again. Hopefully they learn their mistakes quickly this time. Bring on Windows 9. Separate GUI for PC and Handheld.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave-The-Rave View Post
    I don't know why MS can't see Windows 8 is going to be Vista all over again.
    because its not..

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave-The-Rave View Post
    Hopefully they learn their mistakes quickly this time. Bring on Windows 9. Separate GUI for PC and Handheld.
    trying to give a similar experience on PC/Mobile and console is the way forward and for those stuck in the past, don't use the metro interface.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave-The-Rave View Post
    I don't know why MS can't see Windows 8 is going to be Vista all over again. Hopefully they learn their mistakes quickly this time. Bring on Windows 9. Separate GUI for PC and Handheld.
    Vista sold 400 million licenses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    As someone who has a computer running vista that still runs fine to this day, I don't really see the issue.

    Considering you can pick up pro for ~$70 through the end of the year, there really isn't much to lose. And performance wise (under the hood so to speak) W8 is a clear improvement over windows 7.

    As for the sig, it seems you should have chosen this instead:

    http://tinyurl.com/8fswl2v

    I don't care for such deviations from the original design.
    Suffice to say, if you like Vista then there are some deeper issues that need addressing in your paradigm for OS purchasing.

    And in this instance, just because there were a ton of licenses sold for the OS doesn't mean it was 'great' or 'amazing'. For years any new computer you bought came preloaded with Vista- for example.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Windows_Vista


    As for speed claims, the net result between the two is mostly a draw from what I'm reading:

    http://www.techspot.com/review/561-w...ws7/page5.html

    So 'performance' is not really going to be a sufficient motivator for me to migrate to this new OS.


    And your Hi-Point comment is terribly removed from reality. Why should I have just gotten that? The thing isn't even chambered in .45ACP. The SIG 1911 doesn't horribly deviate from the original vis a vis other high cost 1911's.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 08-27-2012 at 17:15.


  18. #43
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    Mountain Lion > Windows 8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Mountain Lion > Windows 8
    I'd take Win98 2nd Edition before Windows 8.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Mountain Lion > Windows 8
    Haha. Everything they release their design gets worse. I can't even...


    Anyway as usual people are saying they don't like it with no reasoning about why not. What's your use case that's makes Windows 8 bad for you. I can only assume based on these baseless declarations that these people are incompetent or just hate MS. Either would come as no surprise to me.

    At least Sony is not as idiotic as their fans:
    http://pocketnow.com/2012/08/27/excl.../#!prettyPhoto
    http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/27/32...ake-on-surface
    $#@! looks good don't it

    Meanwhile me. I'll be a surface pro having beast. With a 24' multitouch monitor at the house. All my $#@! in my one device and skydrive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrUe GaMeR View Post
    Haha. Everything they release their design gets worse. I can't even...


    Anyway as usual people are saying they don't like it with no reasoning about why not. What's your use case that's makes Windows 8 bad for you. I can only assume based on these baseless declarations that these people are incompetent or just hate MS. Either would come as no surprise to me.

    At least Sony is not as idiotic as their fans:
    http://pocketnow.com/2012/08/27/exclusive-sony-vaio-duo-11-leak/#!prettyPhoto
    http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/27/32...ake-on-surface
    $#@! looks good don't it

    Meanwhile me. I'll be a surface pro having beast. With a 24' multitouch monitor at the house. All my $#@! in my one device and skydrive.
    That's the same generalization used against anyone that doesn't like something that someone else does like. What baseless declarations are you even talking about?




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    That's the same generalization used against anyone that doesn't like something that someone else does like. What baseless declarations are you even talking about?
    Here is one:

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Mountain Lion > Windows 8
    You know the same one you quoted. Or maybe my definition is off... in that case enlighten me.

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    Quoting me didn't answer his question though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Suffice to say, if you like Vista then there are some deeper issues that need addressing in your paradigm for OS purchasing.

    And in this instance, just because there were a ton of licenses sold for the OS doesn't mean it was 'great' or 'amazing'. For years any new computer you bought came preloaded with Vista- for example.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Windows_Vista


    As for speed claims, the net result between the two is mostly a draw from what I'm reading:

    http://www.techspot.com/review/561-w...ws7/page5.html

    So 'performance' is not really going to be a sufficient motivator for me to migrate to this new OS.


    And your Hi-Point comment is terribly removed from reality. Why should I have just gotten that? The thing isn't even chambered in .45ACP. The SIG 1911 doesn't horribly deviate from the original vis a vis other high cost 1911's.
    A sale is a sale, MS couldn't care less about the % of actual users.

    Suffice it to say if you are still on the Vista sucks train you need to recheck your position. (as soon as SP1 came out vista was fixed).

    Performance will only improve with time as hardware manufacturers figure out how to tweak their computers to make the most of W8 improvements.

    As for the Hi Power, #1: 9mm is cheaper to shot, but more importantly, #2: It isn't a modified design. There isn't really a point in having an external extractor on a 1911.

    Most 1911s don't differentiate much at all, you pretty much pay for the quality and the name. Also you never got back to me about how much the Ruger and Range Officer 1911's were going for in your area.

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