New Arizona Law: Pregnancy Begins 2 Weeks Before Conception

**Ixion** · 08-27-2012

Originally Posted by Shibby

From the citizens' viewpoint, sure. But the state obviously does not want people doing it, so they would see it as an accomplishment preventing people from doing it in the state.

The state wants to encourage people to give birth to babies that will immediately die? That's a fucked up state.

**Shibby** · 08-27-2012

I'm not saying it's a correct decision. I don't like the law, actually. But if the state doesn't want people doing something, and that state's laws prevent people from doing it, then the state would probably see it as a success. I'm not even talking specifically about this situation, I'm extending it to mean state laws in general.

**Ixion** · 08-27-2012

Originally Posted by Shibby

I'm not saying it's a correct decision. I don't like the law, actually. But if the state doesn't want people doing something, and that state's laws prevent people from doing it, then the state would probably see it as a success. I'm not even talking specifically about this situation, I'm extending it to mean state laws in general.

I agree, that's the great thing about state laws. It's wise to leave social issues up to the states, in order to give American citizens options.

**TRF** · 08-27-2012

Originally Posted by Ixion

I agree, that's the great thing about state laws. It's wise to leave social issues up to the states, in order to give American citizens options.

Leaving social issues to the states removes the options. If you're a homosexual, you lose the option to marry in certain states. If you want to have an abortion, you lose the option to do so in certain states. Some social issues shouldn't be left to states because those states will always try to infringe upon the rights of its citizens as governments tend to do.

**squirrelbo1** · 08-27-2012

Originally Posted by TRF

Leaving social issues to the states removes the options. If you're a homosexual, you lose the option to marry in certain states. If you want to have an abortion, you lose the option to do so in certain states. Some social issues shouldn't be left to states because those states will always try to infringe upon the rights of its citizens as governments tend to do.

Yeah but surely its best to have a fucked up rule in just one place that you can get around or a fucked up rule for the whole country.

Take gay marriage. Can't do it in some states but you can in others. Yeah all should allow it bit state by state is better than a federal rule for everyone

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**Shibby** · 08-28-2012

Originally Posted by TRF

Leaving social issues to the states removes the options. If you're a homosexual, you lose the option to marry in certain states. If you want to have an abortion, you lose the option to do so in certain states. Some social issues shouldn't be left to states because those states will always try to infringe upon the rights of its citizens as governments tend to do.

Regarding gay marriage, considering that it was the norm to not allow it, it's more accurate to view it as you "gain" the option in certain states. "Lose" makes it sound like every state allowed it and then they started getting rid of it. It probably wont be too long that it's allowed everywhere.

Regarding abortion, it's legal in every state.

**claud3** · 08-28-2012

Complete joke full stop. No one has right over a woman's body. Simple as

One woman one choice one outcome, a woman's outcome.

Fuck these asswhole law makers

**F34R** · 08-28-2012

Originally Posted by claud3

Complete joke full stop. No one has right over a woman's body. Simple as

One woman one choice one outcome, a woman's utcome.

Fuck these asswhole law makers

Um, let's not forget that it might not be a good idea to just let people kill unborn children, just because it's "their body".

**claud3** · 08-28-2012

Who are we to say whats right and wrong. Its their choice and they have to live with it. N
ot us

**F34R** · 08-28-2012

Originally Posted by claud3

Who are we to say whats right and wrong. Its their choice and they have to live with it. N
ot us

I dunno, you tell me. You're quite pleased at saying what's all wrong, all the time. How does that fit in your cap?

**claud3** · 08-28-2012

Look as i type this post, thousands of women are having abortions in the world, maybe millions

So we have to stop every woman for doing this, come on really. Women kind has being doing this act since the stone age and we judge it now. How fucking dumb are we. Its just like animals. If they do not want their baby, they either eat it or leave it to die. With humans its an insider job always. Or maybe a steal birth is classified as an abortion to. Look useless you are completely brian dead. Woman kind as been making this choice before we found are tongue to fight against it and god was law

**F34R** · 08-28-2012

So what's the difference then... killing a one year old child cause you don't want it any more, and killing a child that is in the womb? You know how many things humans possibly did back in those days you're talking about? That doesn't have any real significance to what this topic is about. So, they are trying to educate women and prevent babies from being born because of a whim to kill the child. Big fucking deal.

**TRF** · 08-28-2012

Originally Posted by Shibby

Regarding gay marriage, considering that it was the norm to not allow it, it's more accurate to view it as you "gain" the option in certain states. "Lose" makes it sound like every state allowed it and then they started getting rid of it. It probably wont be too long that it's allowed everywhere.

Fair enough point. I just think it's something that we should legalize across the board in one fell swoop and leave it at that, rather than having to fight fifty different civil rights battles in fifty different states.

**claud3** · 08-28-2012

Why, if its been happing for thousands of years. Why change now

Makes no sense. You are taking the right away for the one that give birth to the baby. You are not getting the fact its an animal existence to be in control and a birth of a baby, the birth mother is in control always

**TRF** · 08-28-2012

Originally Posted by claud3

Why, if its been happing for thousands of years. Why change now

Makes no sense. You are taking the right away for the one that give birth to the baby. You are not getting the fact its an animal existence to be in control and a birth of a baby, the birth mother is in control always

I'm pro-choice, but that whole "it's been happening for thousands of years" argument is weak. Slavery has been happening for thousands of years, should we allow that? Ultimately, your stance on abortion is determined by whether or not you think it's a morally acceptable thing to do, and if it's not, if such moral wrongdoing is justified and can be forgiven. I happen to think it's morally acceptable but others do not.

**Ixion** · 08-28-2012

Originally Posted by TRF

Fair enough point. I just think it's something that we should legalize across the board in one fell swoop and leave it at that, rather than having to fight fifty different civil rights battles in fifty different states.

Well, the entire reason America was created in the first place was to disperse the power closer to the people. That's why we have 50 states. If everything is decided on the federal level, then it's more difficult for each person to affect their government.

So especially when it comes to personal and social issues, I think it's important to do that at the state level.

**squirrelbo1** · 08-28-2012

Also America is a big fucking country. No way somebody in Washington could really know what would really be best for someone in Texas. Even in the UK London doesn't really know what's best for Scotland or even northern England.

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**-Kwesnoth-** · 08-28-2012

Originally Posted by claud3

Why, if its been happing for thousands of years. Why change now

Makes no sense. You are taking the right away for the one that give birth to the baby. You are not getting the fact its an animal existence to be in control and a birth of a baby, the birth mother is in control always

Stupidest thing I have ever heard. There has been some messed up shit over the thousands of years. Does not mean we are going to keep doing that just cause its happened before.

It used to be if you stole food from a guy, he had the right to pull out a gun and kill you. Or a man convicted of murder is hung. Should those things still be happening if abortion is allowed?

**mickice** · 08-28-2012

You cannot force a woman to give birth, if she must she will use her own practices to create an abortion possibly hurting herself more than using current medical practices. But if she has to she will. Luckily in this case only one state over and she can get away from silly backwards thinking.